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View Full Version : The Vong, the Force and the defeat of the NR



daedalron
29 October 2002, 03:13 AM
I want to have your opinion about this:

The Vong are immune to the Force, yes, but not to their indirect effects, right. I mean, you cannot move a Vong by telekinesis, but you can telekinetically throw a stone at his head without problem.

My question is about illusions. Let's talk about the illusion that was maintained around Yavin 4. We know it is an indirect illusion, not based on affect mind, as it affects sensors. So, to my opinion, the Vong should be affected too. So why the Jedi don't use it to the max of its capacity ? They could make the Vong see illusionary Jedi, deceiving them into fighting illusions (mirror image anyone?).

More, without affecting the Vong, the Jedi could use their powers to enhance the abilities of their allies. One of their powers was created only for that (battle meditation, the one Joruus C'Baoth and the Emperor used). With the help of the Jedi, the army of the NR would surely have been able to overcome the Vong.
So, why don't they use their powers to help their allies ???

About the Dark Side, as the Vong don't exist in the Force, do you think the jedi would come closer to the Dark Side if they use the Force, let' say to hurl objects at the Vong. As the Vong is'nt pesent in the Force, where is the difference between that and moving stone through the air (which isn't dark at all).

EmprorsHand03
29 October 2002, 09:10 AM
Those are some very interesting theories. I'm going to try and answer some of them for ya. I believe in Edge of Victory I when the Peace Brigade and Vong invade Yavin IV. Their is a statement that the Jedi know that the illusion will not affect the Vong. The problem is that the Vong do not know the location of the Jedi Academy. That is why they had the Peace Brigade looking for it. The Jedi had a pretty powerful illusion around the academy, but once more Jedi left the Academy to fight on the front lines the illusion became less powerful. Therefore illusions against the Vong in battle would not be very effective.

I had wondered why the Jedi had not used battle meditation to enhance the morale of their troops either. It was used all the time during the Sith Wars. I would suppose it is because their is no one who has mastered the technique of battle meditation. If you read Dark Empire the only person who had an affinity for battle meditation was Leia, and she is not a full Jedi. I wonder why she has not decided to finish her Jedi training in this time of crisis, Jedi would be more important to me than a diplomat. The Jedi have been using the battle meld to coordinate fleet operations. So they have the battle in space down.

As for your views on the Vong, the Force, and the Dark Side. I'm going to say read Traitor and DW that should give you more insight into the three.

Warlock-Da
29 October 2002, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by daedalron
I want to have your opinion about this:

The Vong are immune to the Force, yes, but not to their indirect effects, right. I mean, you cannot move a Vong by telekinesis, but you can telekinetically throw a stone at his head without problem.

My question is about illusions. Let's talk about the illusion that was maintained around Yavin 4. We know it is an indirect illusion, not based on affect mind, as it affects sensors. So, to my opinion, the Vong should be affected too. So why the Jedi don't use it to the max of its capacity ? They could make the Vong see illusionary Jedi, deceiving them into fighting illusions (mirror image anyone?).


It didn't work on Yavin, since the Vong just dropped in and took over the whole planet.
Also it's my understanding an Illuison would not work with the Vong at all,...in the NJO guide it says Vong are immune to ALL Sense and Alter based force feats and skills,...ANY Illuison would have to be based on one of these.


More, without affecting the Vong, the Jedi could use their powers to enhance the abilities of their allies. One of their powers was created only for that (battle meditation, the one Joruus C'Baoth and the Emperor used). With the help of the Jedi, the army of the NR would surely have been able to overcome the Vong.
So, why don't they use their powers to help their allies ???

They do. The Battlelink from Star by Star, and more effective concepts in Destiny's Way




About the Dark Side, as the Vong don't exist in the Force, do you think the jedi would come closer to the Dark Side if they use the Force, let' say to hurl objects at the Vong. As the Vong is'nt pesent in the Force, where is the difference between that and moving stone through the air (which isn't dark at all).
It's not about what you HIT with a stone. Darkside is about Anger, Fea Agression, Hatred,....all the negative emotions. There's already been one major and several minor Jedi to get dangerously close to falling into the Darkside because of the war with the Vong. If anything, the Vong not being seen within the force by the Jedi make it EASIER for them to fall to the Darkside as they don't know how to understand this speices and are getting frsutrated and downright terrorfied by the war.

Also as presented in DW, is it that the Vong are "not within the force" or is it that the Jedi lack the knowledge of HOW to see the Vong with the Force?

daedalron
30 October 2002, 09:40 AM
I live in France, and I just read Star by Star, which was delivered one or two weeks ago, and so I don't know about the next books, like BW.

Warlock-Da
30 October 2002, 10:32 AM
That's why I wasn't getting too detailed :) Just wanted to help explain your questions.