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View Full Version : That is it...I'm tired of them!!!



technopooka
30 October 2002, 04:43 PM
I'm getting sick and tired of the whole Midichlorian thing. They were STUPID in the movie and they are STUPID now. Why did Lucas taint such a cool mystical idea like the force and turn it into mere science? Does everything have to be explained with science? People were happy before when it was just this mystical force that was generated by all life, permeated all life and bound the darn universe together. Weren't you all? I was. So when I heard that line in that movie, the only thing that I could say was WTF?!? I'm figuring that it was those people that want to take references of magic out of everything. You know who I am talking about.

Some times I thing these prequel movies were a bad Idea...Le Sigh.


Peace out
Da Pookster

Jedi_Staailis
30 October 2002, 05:51 PM
A while back, I presented an alternate explanation of why midichlorians were in Episdoe I, and received an overwhelming number of replies. There is quite a bit more to this subject than meets the eye. The thread can be viewed here (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?threadid=9769).

Prof. Tricky
31 October 2002, 05:07 AM
[deleted]

Seghast
31 October 2002, 05:27 AM
I wasn't overly thrilled with the midi-chlorian concept at first myself. But, after I stepped back and looked at it from several point of views (most notably as an aspiring author), I realized that it opens up a ton of storylines.

And another aspect; it said midi-chlorians are what enable people to touch and manipulate the Force. It never said <i>how</i> they worked, or why, or what it was that enabled the midi-chlorians to act as keys to the Force. That still leaves some mystery, and maybe, just maybe, a little magic.

scottyboy
31 October 2002, 07:08 AM
Well, I must agree that I am not too wild about the midichlorian idea. I was completely content with it just being a "mystical" force that bound everything together. But I must say that it WAS a very creative idea on Lucas's part. It would have been better if he had just left it alone, but he didn't. And IMHO he did the best he could to make EVERYONE happy. Unfortunately, you gotta crack a few eggs to make breakfast, right?

Oh, and I'd like to add, Prof. Tricky, that's the kind of comments that are getting you the low ratings. Just to let you know.

John Chance
31 October 2002, 11:32 AM
Yeah, but what's to stop some evil dark jedi genius from extracting a vial full of midichlorians and just before he goes up against yoda, injecting himself and becoming UBER-DARTH!!

Codym
31 October 2002, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by John Chance
Yeah, but what's to stop some evil dark jedi genius from extracting a vial full of midichlorians and just before he goes up against yoda, injecting himself and becoming UBER-DARTH!!

They don't work like that, just as injecting yourself with blood from a strong man doesn't make you stronger. With genetic tampering one possibly could up someone's midichlorian count, but it would take a lot of planning, and probably have to from birth. And so far, Star Wars has avoided genetics in all areas (of the movies) other than the clones.

I was hoping the midichlorians were part of the overall arc of the prequels, something that would be explained through Episode 2 and Episode 3. As it is, whever it be because there was no arc or because of vocal fan reaction, I think it will remain one of the unresolved sore spots in Episode 1.

Master Dao Rin
1 November 2002, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by Codym
They don't work like that, just as injecting yourself with blood from a strong man doesn't make you stronger. With genetic tampering one possibly could up someone's midichlorian count, but it would take a lot of planning, and probably have to from birth. And so far, Star Wars has avoided genetics in all areas (of the movies) other than the clones.

Not to mention the fact that the pursuit of which will ALWAYS bring failure and abomination.

Ever read Frankenstein? Same principle at work.

Or Raistlin in Dragonlance for all you gamers out there. :)

Free you mind from modern thinking. Midi-chlorians are good. :D

strensk
1 November 2002, 05:51 AM
At first the idea seemed a little odd to me to say the least.

However, from certain points of view I can see where they fit in.

The biggest question is why are some people sensitive and others not?

One, not everyone can manipulate the force, otherwise the Emperor would have had to kill everyone in the galaxy, which would have made for a very small Empire, sicne everyone is a potential threat. A one man Empire isn't very fun. This is what many of my friends believe that anyone can become a Jedi with enough training.

Some people are stronger in the force than others. Some people while they have the talent can only go so far. Similar to the NFL. Some people are great and are superstars, others are career special teamers. While both are great feats not everyone can do this, otherwise I would be in the NFL.

I think Lucas was looking for some measuring stick, and he created one. Everything has the midichlorians, not everyone has the supernatural ability to harness the power that they seem to tap into, for lack of a better word.

It is still mystical because it seems that they understand to a point how this works, or they think they do, but they don't know for sure.

Ravager_of_worlds
1 November 2002, 07:50 AM
There's a philosophical concept called "the God of the gaps"- it asserts that we ascribe all that we don't understand as "God interferes" or "God takes a part". What we don't understand, we ascribe to the supernatural.

we used to ascribe the sun coming up each day Apollo drivng his chariot across the sky... that thunder and lightning was caused by Zeus' anger or the Olympians partying on Mount Olympus... that the river floods were caused by Tiamat... that X was caused by Y. We accept the explanation and move on.

Sometimes, when knowledge and science uncovers the machinery at work, we lose something of ourselves. It really isn't Apollo but our earth turning... it's really electromagnetic discharges caused by ion distribution in the clouds of high and low pressure cells... the river flooded because of spring rains and accumulation down the mountainside. We have a new explanation, a better model of our universe.

Some people vehemently hate the newest models, because it disrupts their own aesthetic view of the universe. the early church was like this to much of the scientific finds of the enlightenment era- but Galilleo got his due becuase he snubbed the pope, not because of his work. you don't snub the pope in the 1500s in impudence. especially since he bankrolled galileo in the first place... i digress.

perhaps a bit of history can help us understand why we in the present act a certain way. the midichlorians may be a better model, but it isn't necessarily the last. after all, it wasn't until Kepler that we got elliptical orbits in our solar system's model. ;)

ALFRED_THE_EWOK
1 November 2002, 01:45 PM
I think that midichlorians are pointless, and it's obvious that most people find them completley unnecessary when everyone and their neighbor has their own rationalization on why they exist.

DirkGreystoke
1 November 2002, 05:49 PM
I personally like the midi-chlorians, and am tired of whiney fanboys complaining about them and how they ruined "what they thought the Force should be." The problem is that people look at midi-chlorians from a biased perspective. The only point of midi-chlorians in Episode I was to show that there was a knowledge basis for the Force...that it was understood quite well. This is a stark contrast to what we see in the classic trilogy, where knowledge of the Force and midi-chlorians is null and void. So dont look at midi-chlorians for more than what they are....a mere plot device. Besides, in the end these are Lucas' movies...and you can always write your own story or rent a different DVD this weekend.

FVBonura
1 November 2002, 05:52 PM
If you notice Technopooka, there is no mention of "Midichlorians" in AOTC. I suspect Mr. Lucas realized it was a bad idea too and abandoned it altogether. I also suspect we will not encounter any Midichlorian dialoge or subject matter in EP.3. If all goes well, George will solve our little problem for us. Food for thought.

hisham
2 November 2002, 03:35 PM
If Uncle George abandons it, it'd be a waste. I was hoping in Episode 3, those who believe in existence of midichlorians are gonna get some sort of reality check.

Think about it: In TPM Obi-Wan believed in midichlorians. In ANH he doesn't mention it at all. It would be easy to say midichlorians are nothing but a bad retcon.

However, what if Lucas planned that in Episode 3, a paradigm shift in the ways Jedi view the Force occurs. Maybe someone, Jedi or Sith, tries to manipulate the Force through midichlorians and fails, eg. trying to kill midichlorians to remove someone's Force sensitivity. Then they realize these microscopic things are NOT the source of the Force but actually an energy field that yadda yadda yadda.

BrianDavion
2 November 2002, 05:35 PM
that or maybe midichlorians just don't get mentioned again because we don't have obi-wan etc looking for a student. jedi don't strike me like the type to go "my midichlorians bigger then yours" :)

FVBonura
2 November 2002, 09:19 PM
I look forward to getting a few more answers (in general) out of EP.3, and I hope the "midichlorian" issue is never mentioned by Mr. Lucas again. ;)

Hey Technopooka if you live in NYC, you are only 30 mins from my place. If you ever want to hang out and play or talk shop live, send me an email and we can hang out. My door is open dude. You can complain about "midichlorians", all you want. B)

Dr_Worm
3 November 2002, 05:55 PM
Ravager I really liked your post in response to this question, very elegant. However I dislike midi's quite a bit. One of the things that someone mentioned is that they are a way of explaining why some have access to the force and others don't. I find this unnessisary. There are a lot of people in the world with a greater abbility to communicate with god than I have (who am I to say they whether they are or not). So does there need to be a scientific explanation for it? Were Baptist Holy Rollers born with more Jesuschlorians? No. It is a matter of faith and matters unexplainable.

John Chance
3 November 2002, 07:38 PM
I like the way you put that Dr. Worm and I must agree with you, but on slightly different note, the way it came across to me when I saw ep. 1 was not that "because we are strong in the Force we have Midiwhatsits" it came out sounding more like "because we have so many midiwhatsits we are strong in the Force"

It sounded exactly as if Lucas was saying that Midiwhatsits were the Force.

To badly quote the movie I believe Qui-gonn said "Midichlorians are what allow a Jedi to do what they do" I know that isn't what was said but I haven't watched that movie in quite a long time and when he was talking to.....gak....gak...(I have to type it don't I?).....ani......gak..gak.. ow that was painful. that was the gist of what he was saying.

Codym
3 November 2002, 11:39 PM
Having just rewatched that scene again on the DVD, it's hard to see how you could have misinturpted those lines. While you may disagree, the scene stats that Midichlorians are how a Jedi accesses the Force or, more importantly, how the Force has access to them.

I hope that that is not the end of the midis, otherwise it's going to be the one section of Episode I that really bites.

technopooka
4 November 2002, 06:07 AM
Hmmm...I didn't think that this would strike on a subject that many are interested in. First thing I want to get off my chest is this.

To those that are complaining about my attitude...As far as I can remember, this is the Rants and Raves Forum. I think people should feel obligated to get passionate about a subject. I think that is why it is called Rants and Raves.

That being said...
I am not the most religious of people. I consider myself a Technocrat when it comes to life. But one thing I do have. I have faith...I have faith that if the little old Kung Fu master knocks down a brick wall at 10 feet and said that it was the power of his Chi, I would take him at his word on that. Right after I check for wires and any other hoax type items. If I find none then I tend to be satisfied with the explaination. I gues my point is that all though I consider my self a scientist I can accept the fact that there are things that just can't be explained sometimes. And that was how I grew up with the force. And to attach some thing to it just kinda cheapened it. It is like a comic book now and Jedi are nothing but Mutants that the sentinels get later on.

I guess if there is something that people can't wrap logic around, then there has to be some explaination for them.


Just keep the faith Peeps,
Da Pookster

Rogue Janson
4 November 2002, 07:35 AM
There's another thread about midichlorians in the OR forum, and I'm beginning to get confused between the two. In the other thread, a godd suggested explanation of them is that they are to show the jedi have a better (scientific) understanding of the force, which is fair enough. What I like least about midichlorians is the point at which the explanation has been left, the way it just seems to have been dropped.
If more was explained and we had a better picture of the link between mc.s and the force I think everyone would be happier, even if it did demystify it (which I doubt would happen). I can think of - and people here and in the OR forum - various ways they could be acceptably reconciled with our conceptions. As it is, we're just left to either rant about them or try to ignore them.
I'm a little surprised there was nothing in epII about them - it fits the "lucas decided he didn't like them" theory, although I can't see how he could have 'accidentally' dropped in this major concept without deciding it was a good idea. But has anyone else noticed there was nothing more about 'bringing balance to the force' or the prophecy of the chosen one in epII either, not to mention anakin's father (which has been discussed).
In general, epII seemed to leave a lot of force-related issues alone, which is a bit surprising and disappointing.

Darien_Shadowfyre
4 November 2002, 09:00 AM
I always took Midis as merely being the benchmark for how they tested Force Sensitivity, and pulled off all those cool body-control tricks. They by no means ruin the Force, because how can microscopic organisisms in your blood telekinetically throw objects around, and let you see the future? Midichlorians are drawn to the Force. Those who are Force Sensitive have more than anyone else. So a high mididchlorian count indicates Potential Jedi. The only line that throws this off is that Qui-Gon says is that they tell us the will of the Force. However Qui-Gon was big on the Living Force, so for all we know, he's just telling Anakin his perception of how midichlorians work. Its no big deal. Personally I like the idea of a midichlorian test better than that stupid "Force reflex nub" that knocks someone back that KJA came up with.

Codym
4 November 2002, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Rogue Janson
I'm a little surprised there was nothing in epII about them - it fits the "lucas decided he didn't like them" theory, although I can't see how he could have 'accidentally' dropped in this major concept without deciding it was a good idea. But has anyone else noticed there was nothing more about 'bringing balance to the force' or the prophecy of the chosen one in epII either, not to mention anakin's father (which has been discussed).
In general, epII seemed to leave a lot of force-related issues alone, which is a bit surprising and disappointing.

As I said before, I don't know if Lucas actually planned to go anywhere with them, but you can blame the fans for their lack of mention. Rather than wait for the trilogy to finish and have all questions explained, they complained viciously how Phantom failed to fit into SW. To try and appease the fans, Lucas dropped Jar Jar, Midichlorians, the Prophecy, Anakin's lack of a father, etc, and thus has left some glaring inconsistancies that will only add fuel to the myth that Phantom Menace was this terrible movie no-one liked. (Though A New Hope will still remain the first movie when anyone sits down and explains the Force - something Lucas has overlooked :D )

Rogue Janson
4 November 2002, 01:53 PM
I'm not sure I buy the "fan pressure" idea on a lot of these issues (unless someone has stuff from gl or friends explicitly stating it). Maybe on JarJar and some minor stuff - although I think he was more intended to fill the comedy role left vacant because R2 & 3P0 weren't together. But to drop the ancient prophecy that anakin would bring balance to the force and to leave his supposed immaculate conception hanging - those aren't just serious inconsistencies, they're major plot points, or at least should be.
To think that Lucas just randomly dropped these things in without giving any thought to the implications, development in further films and fan reaction, is a bit implausible to me - I do believe someone puts some thought into these movies, he didn't wake up one day and think "I know what would really annoy people and make the force seem really stupid". Although I could be wrong.

Master Dao Rin
4 November 2002, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by FVBonura
If you notice Technopooka, there is no mention of "Midichlorians" in AOTC. I suspect Mr. Lucas realized it was a bad idea too and abandoned it altogether. I also suspect we will not encounter any Midichlorian dialoge or subject matter in EP.3. If all goes well, George will solve our little problem for us. Food for thought.

No, Lucas didn't realize they were a bad idea. Thats your perpective. Midi-chlorians weren't mentioned because they weren't needed for the story - because they were simply a plot device in the first movie for reasons others here have stated.

FVBonura
5 November 2002, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Master Dao Rin
No, Lucas didn't realize they were a bad idea. Thats your perpective.

I guess my "perspective" frightens you, but as long as my "perspective" makes you think, that is good. 8o


Originally posted by Master Dao Rin
Midi-chlorians weren't mentioned because they weren't needed for the story - because they were simply a plot device in the first movie for reasons others here have stated.

You're probably right, but It might have been appropriate for Count Dooku to say something like, "The only way we can prove who has more midichlorians Master Yoda, is by our skill with lightsabers."

I suppose the jury is still out until Episode 3. Then again, we may never know. The unknown is fun, just like mystical energy fields. :D

Dr_Worm
5 November 2002, 08:36 PM
It is clear that Lucas bows to popular opinion...do you remember seeing the boys from Instink in the Jedi battle in EP2? No! They were cut because fan boy's made such a stink about it. Whether he cut Jesuschlorians for the same reason is up in the air, but I suspect it made a difference. Besides if all he could think of to integrate them was a line like that horrible ( :D ) line that Frank Spewed it was a good call.

Arcome
22 November 2002, 07:51 AM
If Lucas didn't have them then ppl could just say "Why do they call it the force?" "It could just be that they are telepathic or something, or they are really in tuned with nature." I also thought it was a stupid idea, then I looked at it from Lucas's point of view. hope that helps--Arcome

Anikka Nesson
22 November 2002, 09:22 AM
I remember feeling so silly when I had to ask what midiclorithingies were after TPM, looking back now I don't feel so bad. It seems many of us were confused as to why they were even necessary. I understand that they were a device to "test" the potental strength of a jedi, but there were better ways to do it, WITHOUT confusing those of us who were tired from finals week already.
I don't seem to remember anything like that from the Jedi Acadamy Search Trilogy Series Books. You know, the ones where Luke goes scouting around the galixy, and we meet Kip. Those ones.
I dunno finals week is coming up fast and I am inversley losing my memory, my concetration, and possibly my mind. sorry.

FVBonura
22 November 2002, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Anikka Nesson
I don't seem to remember anything like that from the Jedi Acadamy Search Trilogy Series Books. You know, the ones where Luke goes scouting around the galixy, and we meet Kip.

It seems that Lucas doesn't like the "Jedi Acadamy Trilogy".
George also stabs the JAT with Count Dooku and the plans for the Death Star on Geonosis, instead of the Death Star being invented at the Maw cluster like in the books.

I can't wait to see what light Ep3 will bring to all this.:D