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View Full Version : Force Powers vs. Yuuzhan Vong (Continued)



Iain Kysler, Jedi Apprentice
1 November 2002, 07:47 AM
Okay. I knew I'd seen it somewhere. Anakin DID use Force Strike, against a YV warrior, no less, on Dantooine. And I quote, from Dark Tide I: Onslaught, page 247:

"Behind Jacen, a trooper flew back, as if he'd been hit in the chest with a metric ton of transparisteel. The telekinetic blast cleared a path to Luke's side..."

Or is that Force Push in action? I can't seem to find the stats or whatever for Force Push, no matter what I do. It's driving me up the wall.

So, would this mean that the YV are capable of being on the receiving end of hits like that?

Ravager_of_worlds
1 November 2002, 07:59 AM
I'd say the Vong are susceptable to some aspects of the force- namely a telekinetic blast like force strike (rcr) or move object (rcr)/force push (OCR). Just because i can't sense them through the force doesn't mean they can walk unscathed from force lightning, telekinetic smashes or other neat dark side powers.

if only the Sith would rise up and save the galaxy from the vong... :D

Jim Williams
1 November 2002, 08:00 AM
Someone call the gosh darn continuity police. !@#$%^ editors...what were they thinking?!!?

Now Iain, I'm tempted to say he just did Move Object, but that would be a cop-out. A telekinetic blast definitely sounds like a grenade BLAST, as in not a gentle Move Object. Of course, Jedi are not supposed to be able to do Move Object on Vong anyway.

The only way I can see Force Push or Force Strike working on Vong is if, by concept, the Jedi are propelling a mass of air at the Vong.

But that's never been what the power SEEMED like to me. It always seemed like the Force was bashing someone/thing. Plus why isn't it being used more often? A blast of air that I'm thinking would have had effects we would have seen in TPM (wind noise, stuff in background being blown over---especially when the Queen was being freed).

My advice...wave a hand in front of your face and say, "Forget about reading that."

Ravager , as for Force Lightning, wasn't there a scene in Traitor (SPOILER)





















Jacen could feel Force Lightning specifically arcing around the Vong because it couldn't "connect" to them? But he did manage to wipe out the coliseum and bring it down on their heads?

Ravager_of_worlds
1 November 2002, 08:40 AM
I suppose so Jim Williams, i figured that since it was pure energy it would have the same game effect as a blaster to a Vong. Quoting Kenobi, "I was wrong."

I suppose i should have voiced the aborted idea i had instead- i think of hte Vong's immunity to the force much like Matt Cauthon's (Wheel of Time) immunity to the One Power. It can't directly effect them, but indirectly it can make their lives miserable.

the vong are just another reason i dislike the NJO era. They remind me of the super bots in Unreal Tournament in the harder difficulty modes that just frustrate you with all the stuff they do... but you can't because you're a lowly human with human reflexes. in effect, it feels like the game is cheating. that's the way i feel about the Vong. a bunch of cheaters... and i know how to get rid of them. they don't exist in my game. :) serves 'em right.

reliant
1 November 2002, 08:41 AM
Wait a second, didn't Jaina use Force Lightning on the Vong during her little flirt with the darkside? I seem to remember that she did, AND that it was quite effective...

Jim Williams
1 November 2002, 10:00 AM
( Jim puts the continuity police on his speed dial)

Reliant, you might be right.

ElfWord
1 November 2002, 10:37 AM
In one of my campaigns, I have a jedi who is the absolute master of telekenisis, at the expense of all other abilities. One of his most common uses of telekenisis is to compress air into an invisible but solid force. So force puch or move object i think could be used to push the air in front of the YV, causing them to fall backwards, as opposed to using the force power on the YV themselves. Different target, same effect.

Lord Diggori
1 November 2002, 10:53 AM
In the book where Anakin died, Vong were dragging his body away. Jaina gave pursuit and a Vong threatened to mutilate his face to back her off. She fried him with Force lightning. Yet, in Traitor, Jacen cant do it.

When you have as many authors and editors working on one long series these type of mistakes are bound to surface. :rolleyes:

I choose the interpretation where Force skills cant directly effect Vong since that's what most sources agree too, like when Anakin's girlfriend ( T-something) condensed the air and almost choked the Vong while they tried to shape her.

wolverine
1 November 2002, 01:21 PM
I think it might have something to do with the dark side. Maybe if they are going hell into it, like the nightsisters did, or jania did, it works (somewhat), but if they are staying light, or just 'touching the dark side' it does not work...

Nova Spice
1 November 2002, 02:47 PM
"Behind Jacen, a trooper flew back, as if he'd been hit in the chest with a metric ton of transparisteel. The telekinetic blast cleared a path to Luke's side..."

Wait now, I just read this passage and I believe that you may have gotten a bit confused Iain (and its understandable because if you do not read closely you won't recognize what is going on). 8o

The "trooper" that flew back was not a Yuuzhan Vong. It was a Chazrach shock troop (a.k.a. reptoid) that Anakin hurled backwards with the Force. That explains why Anakin could use the Force against the creature. The Chazrach are not void of the Force like the cursed Vong. ;)

Ardent
1 November 2002, 07:40 PM
I'd be inclined to agree with Nova Spice.

My take on the Force and YV is pretty straight forward: if it affects the YV directly, it won't work. If it is a "general" effect, it will. Example: Affect Mind will not work against YV. Illusion will.

The second part is "creative application." I'm of the opinion that, Force Strike WILL work against YV, under specific applications. Most notably, the Projected Fighting Force technique (which will be appearing in the NRESB, have faith!), since the Force is affecting the Jedi directly, as opposed to the Jedi's target (which is an indirect target).

What does this imply? It implies that nothing is static insofar as TK versus the YV. Sticky? Absolutely. Judging what affects the Jedi directly and what affects his target directly requires a lot of thought and, quite possibly, strong background knowledge in physics.

Don't go into these situations lightly. If it comes up during the course of play, skirt around it. Come back to it when the session's over and you have time to brainstorm. Don't let your players trap you into establishing a precedence that might hurt the campaign in the long run.

Jimmy Gipe
4 November 2002, 12:01 PM
This argument of VongForce can easily be solved in terms of TK (telekinisis). It is posibile to you TK on a Vong, Basicly you would affect the air around them by causing a condenced focused force of air to strike the target. What maybe a better example, is what Jimmy (My RPG Char.) did in the adventur "The Abduction of Crying Dawn Singer" one time while he was running he used TK to make himself move faster not by pushing some internal organ but by pushing himself. Unforunatly by doing this I almost fell of the walkway8o

strensk
4 November 2002, 12:24 PM
I can't remember any instance where the Vong were directly affected by the force.

I seem to recall a number of instances where creative use of the Force to things surrounding them would affect them.

Iain Kysler, Jedi Apprentice
4 November 2002, 01:50 PM
Okay, supposing I DO cause a blast of compressed air to hit the YV in the torso. Two questions:

a) Does it give my character a DSP?

b) Shouldn't the giving of a DSP be up to the narrator?

Example: Force Strike with no damage inflicted...

"As he turned, Iain saw a villager about to be cut down by a thud bug. Reaching out through the force, he knocked the villager off his feet, and the thud bug whistled past. By the time it came around for another pass, Iain was in place to intercept it with his lightsaber."

Does that give my character a DSP? Yes, I'll give say that it might be walking a fine line, but if my character doesn't inflict damage, does it give him the DSP? All that's been accomplished is to know the villager away from the thud bug's trajectory.

Ardent
4 November 2002, 03:16 PM
DSPs are an entirely different issue, Iain.

Ultimately, the decision of what does and doesn't incur the character a Force Point should be the decision of the GM...but it depends on the GM. Part of the reason the mechanics include "incur automatic DSP" is because people asked for it. I don't agree that DSPs should be given out as arbitrarily as the rulebook's mechanics demand, and I base DSP decisions on something like a karmic scale.

Intent counts, but effect is also important. Circumstances and effort are also important.

In the example you gave, Force Strike wasn't the appropriate skill, in my opinion. Move Object could and would do the same thing, however I wouldn't give Iain a DSP because the intent was pure, the effect was almost harmless, the circumstances were dire and Iain made a genuine effort to save the person.

But, based on the rules as presented in the rulebook, Iain has earned himself a DSP.

ElfBoyM
4 November 2002, 03:33 PM
In my campaign, Iain would not have received a DSP. As was metioned before, he had a good intent, and caused no actuall harm. I also agree that Move Object would've been a better skill to use, but Force Strike would work just fine.
I really hate gray areas like this. Because now the arguement could be made that if the character had used Force Lightning to hurt the thud bug, would it have garnered a DSP (I think yes)?

Farliner
5 November 2002, 04:36 AM
Well, as far as I remember, Force Strike could not be used to knock someone off the feet, so char would have to use Move Object, so - no DSP. For using the Force Lightning - well, that's another queston - at least one DSP is a fact (use of FL), and if you kil a living beeing (Thud Bug) with it, I would give char another DSP for killing through the Force :)

RoyalGuard
5 November 2002, 10:11 AM
I think it's important to consider the context around Jacen and Jaina's lightning use:

Jaina - not being tutored by Vergere, not rediscovering her connection to the force, very angry.

Jacen - being tutored by Vergere, rediscovering his connection to the force, not so much angry as paniced.

I think in this case we can fudge it as a 'will of the force' thing. Jacen wanted to hurt the 'vong, he made that will reality, the force obliterated the surrounding structure to get them.

In my game I allow the force to directly affect Vong if it's a manifestation of an energy type (i.e. lightning). Grip is useless, as are all mind control powers. TK can affect Vong indirectly.

Just my $0.02