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ElfWord
3 November 2002, 08:53 AM
So what do you guys think will happen with Ben Skywalker? Will he not be able to use the force? Will he be the most powerful Jedi ever? Will he turn to the darkside? Will he accept Jacen's new view of the force? The future is everchanging, let me know what you guys think will happen.

Seghast
3 November 2002, 09:56 AM
I'm hoping to see Ben as what Anakin Skywalker could have been if he'd never turned to the DarkSide.

And I think he'll end up losing his right hand; it's the Skywalker Curse, after all.

Nova Spice
3 November 2002, 10:45 AM
I think when you look at the title of the book that Ben was born in, you can pretty much see where his destiny lies. Edge of Victory II: Rebirth wasn't named "Rebirth" because Ben Skywalker was born or because it was a new hope for the Republic. Rebirth signified the rebirth of the Jedi as a whole and I'm not talking about a change in their philosophy or their attitudes. I think Ben's birth was the starting over for the Jedi and for the galaxy; I foresee Ben changing the foundations of the Jedi just as his grandfather changed the foundations, except this time the Jedi will be changed for the better.

Vader destroyed the Jedi Order, Ben will not just rebuild (that's Luke's job), Ben will completely tear down and start back from ground zero again. I think Ben Skywalker will be the one to create a new Jedi Order and undo everything that has transpired since the first Jedi ignited his lightsaber millennia ago. Luke brought balance to the Force, Jacen has brought the Force to the balance, and Ben will bring the Jedi to a new destiny....to a New Jedi Order. ;)

Ardent
3 November 2002, 06:01 PM
I think Nova's really cheesy speech more or less hits the head of the issue. I also think Ben will be Jacen's protegee insofar as Jacen's views on the Force.

I think it's important to point out that the Jedi of the current era rely too heavily on the Force for my tastes. Jacen has hit a point of understanding where he uses the Force when it wants to be used, and not when it doesn't. Something that the Old Order took millennia to learn.

Whatever Ben's destiny, Obi-Wan will be watching over his namesake. "You cannot escape your destiny."

How's that for cheesy, Nova? ;)

ElfWord
3 November 2002, 07:36 PM
Despite the fact that you're all swimmin in parmesan and cheddar, you guys have some really good points. I hope to see the creation of a new Jedi Temple, and also some new Jedi training ships like the Chu'Unthor(sp?). I wonder what sort of personality traits he will develop though? I mean, Jaina was an excellent pilot and was good with machines. Jacen was excellent with animals, and a good duelist. Anakin was excellent with machines and an above average duelist. Other traits would be Kyp Durron's natural power within the force, Cilghal's excellent healing abilities, Corran Horn's energy absorbtion and diffusion talent, and Ganner Rhysode's mastery of TK.

Ardent
3 November 2002, 08:27 PM
It's my hope Ben is "normal" as far as Force-Sensitives go. No overwhelming potential, no superior ability, nothing but Force-Sensitive (like his mother).

The "All-Arounder" as it were.

ElfWord
4 November 2002, 06:32 AM
No offense Ardent, but to me that just seems kind of bland...
If Ben Skywalker is going to be the one to rebuild the Jedi Order, I think he should be the most powerful of the Jedi. He should be able to quash Kyp or even his uncle Luke in a duel without a problem. I wouldn't want him to be so powerful it's unrealistic, but I don't want him to be just average either. I'm thinking he should have a really really high midichlorian count.

VixenofVenus
4 November 2002, 09:22 AM
I think Ben will be very powerful, not because of Genetics (although the Skywalker bloodline is 'very strong in the Force'), but because he will be raised by Jedi. All around him are Force-Sensitives in his family.

He will shake the foundations of the Jedi Order his father rebuilt and his cousin is changing now. Jacen's views of the Force may or may not be accurate, but Ben will be the fulcrum. It all ties into the whole idea of 'The One who will bring Balance'

What if 'The One' was really 'One Family' and not 'One man' ... what if it all ties into a Family or line which started with one man being created by the Force ...

Anakin was created by the Force, and wiped out the Jedi (wiped out the old and stagnant)
Luke and Anakin destroyed that which aided Anakin destroy the Jedi.
Luke began to rebuild the Jedi Anew ...
Jacen and siblings reformed the Jedi further with their beliefs, actions, and feelings ...
Ben brings it all together ...

Ardent
4 November 2002, 12:45 PM
ElfWord, that's pretty Imperial-forward of you. Power isn't everything. In fact, without ground to stand on, power is nothing. You don't need to be strong with the Force to make a huge contribution (obviously), and this remains true with the Jedi, too. Tionne is quite possibly the most respected and most-loved Jedi Master of the new Order, and she's barely capable of moving fist-sized stones, isn't terribly handy with a lightsaber or able to jump 20 meters into the air.

This is part of the thing the old Jedi Order worried about when they tried to eliminate Force bloodlines: the idea that it might bring about the idea that power is paramount to responsibility.

Everyone gets caught up in the "have the most powerful Jedi, yeah!" trap. A well-crafted Jedi character brings a balance of Force skills and "mundane" skills that create a very effective hero. Why should we arbitrarily agree that the balance should be Force-heavy? Or even combat-heavy?

My character is a Jedi Weapon Master. An extremely accomplished one. But he began his career as a Jedi Consular. He continues to train both his mind and his body. He's got high ranks of Diplomacy, Gather Information, Sense Motive, Farseeing, Empathy and Friendship because he's a balanced character. He's equally adept in a political and a physical situation.

VoV, the idea that Ben might realize more of his potential because he'll be raised in a Jedi-heavy environment isn't a bad one. But the Solos were also raised in a relatively Jedi-heavy environment, and they aren't any more or less adept than their compatriots.

Nova Spice
4 November 2002, 04:32 PM
Whatever Ben's destiny, Obi-Wan will be watching over his namesake. "You cannot escape your destiny."

"Your training is now complete, the cheesiness is strong in this one!"
:D :p


What if 'The One' was really 'One Family' and not 'One man' ... what if it all ties into a Family or line which started with one man being created by the Force ...

Not a bad thought Vixen, in fact its a really fascinating one. Perhaps there's more truth behind this one than meets the eye. :raised:

All I know for sure is that, despite how cheesy my post may have been, I really feel that that is what is going to happen and what was meant to happen. ;)

ElfWord
4 November 2002, 07:54 PM
Ardent, I'm not trying to be Imperialistic. I believe that knowledge is the most powerful thing in the universe. But I believe in having a strong leader. People of power respect those with equal or greater power. In the books, I've never gotten a sense of Tionne providing leadership to the Jedi. Instead, it's always been those who stand out, either with the obvious power of Kyp or the focused measured power of Luke. I don't see why Ben can't be both powerful and knowledgable. I'd like to see a character who can crumple a blast door with a thought, but the knowledge to use it only when neccesary.

KenobiJim
14 November 2002, 11:28 AM
I would like to see Ben as the Galahad of the Jedi; a shining example of Purity in the Force. Incorruptable (if he did fall you could call him Darth Corruptable!), powerful, and insightful. If nothing else to mess with Vergere's perception of the Jedi Dynasty. Something good and awesome has to happen for a change in the Skywalker family... However I agree with the previous post - that kid's hand is gonna disappear!

Craig Feely
15 November 2002, 08:39 PM
Just a quick point....a question really: do any of you feel that Luke and Mara's naming of their first born was a little obviously cheesy? Couldn't they have thought of something a little more original?? If they were dead set on naming him after someone, why Kenobi? Yeah I realize he was Luke's first master, but I think the question on my mind is: Didn't we all see this one coming???

Nova Spice
21 November 2002, 02:24 PM
Just a quick point....a question really: do any of you feel that Luke and Mara's naming of their first born was a little obviously cheesy? Couldn't they have thought of something a little more original?? If they were dead set on naming him after someone, why Kenobi? Yeah I realize he was Luke's first master, but I think the question on my mind is: Didn't we all see this one coming???

No, I didn't think naming their son Ben was really cheesy on Luke and Mara's part. In my very humble opinion Craig, the title is symbolic and the entire NJO series, in a way, is symbolic in one form or another of the past and the future. I think naming his son Ben was to honor the man who taught him about the Force first, who watched over him from a distance as he grew up on that dusty world of Tatooine, who sacrificed himself so he could escape from the grasp of his father, so he could bring birth to a new jedi order.

In fact, I think not naming him Ben would have been quite odd. Sure it was expected, but sometimes the best things are expected! :D

ElfWord
21 November 2002, 03:48 PM
Just think what it would be like if Christmas wasn't here when we expected it.
Despite the fact that my statement doesn't really make sense, I do have sensible(I hope) things to say.
How would you all feel if Ben was killed?
I mean, the NJO authors haven't shown much hesitation about killing big characters(I still hate them for killing Anakin.), so what if they just decided to kill Ben? I think Mara would turn to the darkside, Jaina would have to defeat her former master, and somehow Luke and Callista would end up getting back together after a long, long time. In the meantime, Ben's spirit continues to grow within the force. Somehow, he comes back to life(perhaps as another force-induced conception?).

Craig Feely
22 November 2002, 07:08 PM
.

ElfWord
25 November 2002, 04:57 PM
Craig, I'm not sure what you mean by
the steadily growing feelings of invincabilty among the main characters since Chewie's death.
There isn't any real feeling of invincibility among the main characters, especially after SPOILER:





Anakin's death.

Nova Spice
25 November 2002, 06:30 PM
His death would not only be a huge blow to the NJO, but also to the steadily growing feelings of invincabilty among the main characters since Chewie's death.

I am of the opinion that Ben Skywalker is the wrong candidate for this. He is only a baby and he is Luke Skywalker's lineage (future of Star Wars), so I believe that if Ben were to die there would be such an uproar from fans that the NJO products thereafter wouldn't sell. It was such a huge event when Ben was born and if he were to die, it would only cheapen the events in Rebirth and the great story arc that lead up to it.

However, I do agree with you in that some of the main characters have returned to their usual confidence, which is probably a good thing. Although I wouldn't worry too much about their growing feelings of invulnerability. I don't think the series will end without the death of another major character. ;)

Craig Feely
27 November 2002, 05:48 AM
[b]Nova Spice[b] really got what I was stuttering to get out. Yes the spoiler that you mentioned was a huge blow to them, but now, 3-4 books later they are having some major victories and I was just stating that I was sensing a growing feeling of confidence among the main characters. I wasn't saying that this was a bad thing, only that it was intresting to see how strong the characters are and how dedicated they are to the cause.

So to reinterate, yes, Ben's death would obviously hurt the growing morale of the characters, but more so than that, his death would be a huge blow to the future of the Jedi Order.

Jedi Master Talon
11 December 2002, 09:28 AM
I'm reading Edge of Victory: Conquest and in it Luke said in the begining of the book that the galaxy won't be saved by him, Kyp or any of the older Jedi but by a new person and I think that Ben is that new person. That's what think his destiny is.

Jedi Bith
11 December 2002, 01:31 PM
Hey Elf,

I like that train of thought. You ever write any Star Wars related fiction? Maybe you should. I am very intrigued at the idea you just posted.

I am more in the train of thought for Ben being able to rebuild the Jedi from the proverbial ashes to let it rise again in brighter glory and a much wiser Wisdom (to highlight the thought).

But I do like your thought there, Elf.

Just my 2 cents.

ElfWord
11 December 2002, 05:37 PM
Thanks for the compliment Jedi Bith. I haven't written any fan fics yet, I've been too busy making game material. I have considered it though and I will probably write a fan fic when I get some more time.

Jedi Master Talon
12 December 2002, 05:03 PM
If you put it one way Ben won't be doing all that much with the YV but if he is the new person that Luke spoke about in the book then who is the new enemy that will need such a hero. His destiny right now is unknown. So I can't wait to see whats next.:D

Lehesu
13 December 2002, 09:24 AM
I quote:"His future is uncertain,he's not dangerous."

ElfWord
16 December 2002, 07:29 PM
Lehesu, what or who are you quoting from? What evidence do you have to support this quote? Could you explain your comment a little bit more?

What if once the YV conflict is over, and the Yuuzhan Vong's connection with the Unifying Force was discovered, a sect of Yuuzhan Vong darksider's started to terrorize the galaxy?

Reed
2 January 2003, 02:10 PM
Whatever you people think, I think that little Ben will be the Ol'Ben of the New Jedi Order. Think about it. During the Rise of the Empire when something needed to be done and it had galaxy wide repercussions, who did the Jedi Council send? Obi-Wan Kenobi. That's exactly what Ben Skywalker will be. The New Jedi Order's errand boy. When you look at Obi-Wan Kenobi's stats in the revised core rulebook, he's delved into the Jedi Investigator prestige class. So will it be with Ben Skywalker, the Jedi's boy scout. Whenever there is a mission of utmost importance and poses to be extremely dangerous, whom will they send? Ben Skywalker.

Ben Skywalker, the Obi-Wan Kenobi of the New Jedi Order.

C'mon who doesn't love Obi-Wan?

All hail Obi-Wan Kenobi, the coolest Jedi and character there ever was!

Vanger Chevane
4 January 2003, 08:43 AM
Ben will likely become a scholar and politician.

The Spiritual Leader of the NJO, bringing the various factions and philosophies together for a new Vision of the Future, much as Yoda is portrayed during the Old Republic. Sending ppl out on missions to accomplish this goal, more than doing it all himself.



Or he'll become the Avenging Hero & simply wipe out the Vong entirely if the writers can't get past the tired "The only good one's a dead one" shoot-em-up mentality.

Nova Spice
4 January 2003, 03:54 PM
Or he'll become the Avenging Hero & simply wipe out the Vong entirely if the writers can't get past the tired "The only good one's a dead one" shoot-em-up mentality.

I've read all fourteen NJO books thus far and I haven't seen this mentality yet? I'd love to hear an explanation. :D

Vanger Chevane
5 January 2003, 07:02 AM
on everything up through Traitor, excepting the Ylesia E-book, recently finished the Star by Star (including the once E-book only Recovery).

The Vong are hardcore absolutists. They simply will not co-exist with anyone else except under their draconian terms. The only way a victory can be achieved, and the war ended under the current circumstances is for it to be total. The Vong have to be so thoroughly wiped out as they can never again be a threat to anyone outside of possibly a few planets they live on.


There is no way Tsavong Lah or his underlings are going to allow machine-using Heretics to live in their galaxy unless they're Slaves or Sacrifices, period. This absolute "Us or Them" mentality has to change, or the Vong have to be totally eradicated for any of the other SW races to survive (beyond some primitive Agrarian ones, and once they figure out how to make tools...)

I've figured out how to shatter the Vong absolutism, but it's predicated on 2 issues. The character is privy to a significant amount of Vong Philosophy, and they'll actually listen to the character & seriously think about what is said. Neither of which is likely to happen, excepting the fact that Jacen Solo learns a good amount of VP in Traitor.


Any living world they've touched is either a lifeless rock, on its way due to the fact that VongTech is not ecologically compatible (The abandoned areas where they grew ships, etc, in one of the earlier books could no longer grow anything), or is being converted to a Vong Ecology (Coruscant, no idea if Vongforming can be stable in the SW Galaxy, but it might be an improvement over the basically dead world it was). The fact that they never did anything with a planet without a pre-existing ecology, possibly excepting Coruscant, may imply that they are incapable of making a dead world habitable without destroying a living planet (or more than one) in the process. To date, they are pretty much an ecologically-parisitic, not -symbiotic (like the Wookies or Togorians, whose full use and understanding of High Tech while respecting and maintaining the Homeworld's ecology I found impressive & laudable) , race. This implies that for the Vong to keep themselves in Starships & other VongTech, they're going to burn through one living planet after another until they simply run out.


Unless the Vong Philosophy does change radically, the NR & Empire will have to fight to the last to protect their ppl's lives & keep them from getting Vong'd back to the Stone Age. Similarly, the Vong will never accept a real peace, preferring to die before allowing such things as non-living starships and Droids to touch their lives (tho I'd love to see how they deal with the concept of the living circuitry of Vuffi Raa & kin being one of Yun-Yuuzhan's other offspring ;)). The forces are very much diametrically opposed and the terms are No Quarter.

The Emipre and Warlords were out to control the galaxy, not totally supplant everyone and everything in it. Most of the populace could as easily be the neighbors except for some political distinction. The only way you'll survive under the current NJO Saga with Vong for neighbors is to be their slave.


Previous eras have all been themed on ideals. Republic: standing against corruption. Rebellion: defending Freedom. New Republic: preserving Freedom and preventing corruption (even Pellaeon worked to preserve the Imperial Remnant for its people, not for himself). So far the only recurrent theme in NJO is the simple Darwinian struggle to survive.

It's basically a "the-only-good-one's-a-dead-one, this-town-ain't-big-enough-for-the-both-of-us" shoot-em-up unless there's a major change in Vong Society as a whole.



>whew!<

It's quite the dissertation, but hopefully this clarifies things for you.