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wolverine
1 September 2000, 01:14 AM
Thinking about this for a little i think there should be something like this for actual game play. Like back in X-wing novels (several instances) where corran targets a ship, and Tycho actually uses his targeting data to blow it up...

My thought's are this:

The C3 unit is broken into 3 unit types. Master - workstation and slave.

The slaves are for starfighters, the workstations are for small cap ships/cargo ships while the masters are for medium and up cap ships. The benefits are as follows...
1) All ships in the fleet can use one another's targeting data. System; as long as a C3 unit is not being jammed, it can fire upon the target with the shortest range modifiers.
2) A ship with sensors shorter range than some of their weapons ranges can still fire at long ranges, by using slave equiped snubs out expanding it's view.

Note any unit cut off from atleast a workstation cannot partisipate (whether due to jamming or just out of range)

Master: cost - 460,000 credits Range 200
Can control upto 14 workstations and 36 slaves.
Workst: Cost - 120,000 credits Range 100
Can control upto 24 slaves
Slave: Cost 50,000 Range 60
Can have upto 4 controling unit.....





Well, ideas??? Thoughts???

Chris Curtis
1 September 2000, 05:42 AM
Not a bad idea, actually.

I think your quick stats/rules are pretty decent. You might want to define the sizes a little better (i.e. "small" capital ship), though.

Also, such a system would greatly increase the effectiveness of defensive systems such as point-defense blasters. I would say that the systems should get something like +1D to hit for every 10 ships hooked into the system, up to a maximum bonus of +3D. (Beyond that, the increaed sensor coverage, computing power, etc. aren't really useful.)

Lokar
1 September 2000, 10:40 AM
Cool idea. Can I use this C3 system in my revise version of The Pride of Frax stats? Please.

wolverine
1 September 2000, 12:13 PM
Ok the price for use is one Flump.

To rent for 1 game session is 5 tribbles

To rent for 3 game sessions is 12 tribbles.....

Lokar
1 September 2000, 01:21 PM
Sorry no tribbles. Will you take Imperial Express?

wolverine
2 September 2000, 05:33 AM
No, but i do take Jedi master card....

wolverine
16 August 2003, 04:53 AM
OK. Resurecting this one.. Revised a few things...

The C3 unit is broken into 3 unit types. Master - workstation and slave.

The slaves are for starfighters, the workstations are for small cap ships/cargo ships while the masters are for medium and up cap ships. The benefits are as follows...
1) All ships in the fleet can use one another's targeting data. System; as long as a C3 unit is not being jammed, it can fire upon the target with the shortest range modifiers.
2) A ship with sensors shorter range than some of their weapons ranges can still fire at long ranges, by using slave equiped snubs out expanding it's view.

Note any unit cut off from atleast a workstation cannot partisipate (whether due to jamming or just out of range)
Range of the unit is how far it can 'control' others for the master and work station, for the slaves, how far apart they can be from one another and be linked.

Master: cost - 460,000 credits Range 240.
Can control upto 14 workstations and 36 slaves.
Workst: Cost - 120,000 credits Range 120
Can control upto 24 slaves
Slave: Cost 50,000 Range 40
Can have upto 4 controling unit.....

michaleg
16 August 2003, 08:47 AM
Hmmm,

I don't know whos who here, but any D20 players really should get their hands on old WEG D6 sourcebooks, pass on the adventures, but the Imperial/Rebel/Main sourcebooks, there are stuff in there that isn't printed elsewhere and there are stories and info in there that is invaluable.

Ok, I think its the Imperial Sourcebook, but I've read there is a version of the TIE which is modified to carry a sensor pack, basically it is lauched from a Star Destroyer, flys down uses its package to laser target a planet based target, then transmit the targeting data to the SD to implement orbital bombardment.

In D6 terms add bonuses to fire control, I've used it, makes a great target for Rebels to try and knock down and for Imperials to try and defend.

Michael G

BrianDavion
16 August 2003, 10:16 AM
hey I like this. good port of the C3 network from Battletech.

wolverine
16 August 2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by BrianDavion
hey I like this. good port of the C3 network from Battletech.

Why thanks, brian.

Some may say it is a steal from it, but i prefer to think of it as 'honoring' it...

BrianDavion
16 August 2003, 11:20 AM
I wouldn't call it a steal. as the idea is a good one. I'd consider making a few changes though perhaps allowing a command ship to have multiple master computers and allowing the master computer to connect up to a dozen slaves or 4 work stations.

the C3 computer system in battletech is after all designed to work on a alnce structure. where star wars ships tend to focus more on fighter squadron groupings

wolverine
17 August 2003, 02:55 AM
Thanks for that vote of confidence brian. I picture the working of this like thus:

Each master (usually on the main command ship) has 3 squadrons directly slaved to it for a fighter defense grid, and 14 picket ships as long range scanners. Each picket (workstation) has 2 squadrons linked into it, with 3 others in it's memory, so when one squadron goes out for what ever reason, a new one can be brought into the command field. As a slave can have 4 controlers, a squadron of fighters could have 3 pickets (workstations) and one command (master) over controller. This allows for all sensor and weapons data to be rotated through any of them....

Benifits of C3 link up.
Use of the closest range catagory to the target, of any 'ship' in the link for ALL weapons from any ship in the link. +1D of fire control for all weaponry on workstation equipped ships, and +2D of fire control for all
master equipped ships for all the weaponry.

michaleg
17 August 2003, 05:08 AM
Meanwhile...

Leia: "Reikeen, how are the technicians coming along with the development of the C3 tranmission jammers? Have they started testing it on the modified B-wings yet?"

Michael G

wolverine
9 December 2004, 11:33 PM
So anyone else get to use these yet?

wolfe
10 December 2004, 06:06 AM
to a degree..
used it as a basis for the lancer frigate fire control.. and why it was always breaking down..and later a refined version onthe corellian gunship it just didnt affect any other ship just the vessels own.

a question though..

and i am familiar with the c3 battle tech version..

now you have a painted -targeted- vessel, that sensor data is only good for as long as the target is locked.. so are you allowing the target acquisistion to be dodged/evaded like normal fire?

main reason i realy didnt use it as was.. that the FC Tie Fighter has something similar but only allows one weapon/battery to benefit from it not every weapon on a ship and every ship connected to the network nor did it affect weapons range.
was a bit too much for us at the time..

Vanger Chevane
10 December 2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by wolfe
to a degree..
used it as a basis for the lancer frigate fire control.. and why it was always breaking down..and later a refined version onthe corellian gunship it just didnt affect any other ship just the vessels own.

a question though..

and i am familiar with the c3 battle tech version..

now you have a painted -targeted- vessel, that sensor data is only good for as long as the target is locked.. so are you allowing the target acquisistion to be dodged/evaded like normal fire?

main reason i realy didnt use it as was.. that the FC Tie Fighter has something similar but only allows one weapon/battery to benefit from it not every weapon on a ship and every ship connected to the network nor did it affect weapons range.
was a bit too much for us at the time..
The problem with dodge/evade is if every snub in the squadron is C3 linked, it's nearly impossible to shake the lock. You can break the closest lock, but someone farther back will still have you. The only thing you've done is reduce the overall targeting bonus. You trade a precision lock for one that's very consistent, although it's innate quality will fluctuate around a "good enough" average.

wolfe
10 December 2004, 07:15 PM
you cant be serious..

your saying every fighter gets every other fighters in the link targetings solution simultaneously and can use it at any time?

sorry you cant dodge as every fighter has a lock on you..you get hit by all and are killed..

so in other words the rebels lost at endor as there were way more imperials with targeting locks, the rebels cant dodge/evade, the rebels cant jam as they themselves were getting jammed all to hell.
the rebels dont even make it past the first imperial fighter pass..

literally no point in playing the game.. your smuggler will never make it past the patrol as it cant jam every fighters targeting solution at the same time..

the c3 was made to be used by a group without sophisticated sensors and it couldnt be used with any more advanced ones..for game balance

tycho made the shot using somebody elses targeting computer not his own.
if the lead hits everyone hits if the lead misses thats ok there 11 more fighters in the squad once they hit then everyone will hit..

my group considers this an non useable, non considerable item as vanger described it..

Vanger Chevane
10 December 2004, 07:52 PM
Using someone's unique targeting data as Tycho did is fairly straightforward, you only have to shuck the targeter. Anyone using the secondhand data can't independently target until the next round as they have to flip that switch first.

This is something that can be, and often is, done in the novels so it shouldn't be much of an issue in the game other than having incoming shots fired this round & hitting the next (do you allow then to dodge that torp at a higher difficulty than the original shot?).


C3's can multiplex targeting as I elaborated, always switching to the "best" source of the moment for everyone.

The more systems the C3 Master controls & receives data from, the larger, more complex, and expensive the C3 system gets until the point where you can pick the wings off a flutterby from orbit, but you need an SSD just to haul the thing around. :P

Slicing into the C3 dataflow would allow one to send in all sorts of false data & royally confuse the system.

Also, all that data flowing back & forth can be jammed: the more there is, the easier to jam/slice it. Pilots trained to primarily use C3 targeting would really suck if a jammer/malfunction were present forcing them to dust off that Old-fashioned Manual Control. :D

wolverine
10 December 2004, 11:09 PM
Good point vangar. The more people in the link who CAN use the data, the more who will be able to acquire their own lock, and easier at that (since they already have some data to go on).

BUT that said, yes i do envision a pilot being able to shirk his lock away if it is only the 1 ship who has him locked.
Targeting ship's piloting roll to break lock, for PB range (3 su or less).
4-8 su it becomes harder to break a lock as the 'box is smaller' and more controlable. Piloting roll at +5 to diff.
9-15 su Pi ro is +10.
16-24 su +5, as you are further out.
25-40 su Pi roll is back to normal pi roll diff as you are far enough out (IMO) to have little possibility for that lock.

wolverine
29 January 2007, 09:22 PM
Has anyone else used this yet?? If so what changes (if any) did you make? How did it run??

Rigo
7 February 2007, 03:34 PM
Nobody used it since some Microsux Corporation made the OS for those computor. The corporate master Gill Bates tryed to controle all computor.


Personnaly i already used some stuff like this, computor giving some bonus in some specific skill. In my player the computor gived bonus in astrogation (+1D) computor programing, reparation etc. This can help begining character in the first hard time.