View Full Version : Do I give the whole party a DSP?

Talon Razor 'GM'
5 November 2002, 05:26 PM
OK this is a lot like Lord Diggori's problem. Reading his thread remninded me of a conversation I had with a Player and I didn't want to threadjack. I have 4 PCs.

First off 3 PCs stop a imperial officer from getting blown away. 2 PCs go off to collect reward while 2 branch off and rob store. 2 robbing PCs stun the clerk and begin to rob. The other 2 come back and join them. Clerk wakes up and calls police. A 'customer' comes in and, hearing sirens, tells them to follow him fast. They don't. A ST pulls up on a speeder and they kill him. They flee and kill 3 police. 2 ST come into store and they stun one, kill the other. Then a Defel Scoundrel has his R2 chop off the head of the stunned ST.

Now I am wanting to give only 2 of them DSP, the one that thought of robbing the store and the one that killed the stunned ST. However they say either the WHOLE party gets one or none of them. Thoughts?

5 November 2002, 05:31 PM
I would say sorry, dsp's are handled on a case by case/person by person basis. There is no group rate for dsp's. Give the points to the two you think deserve it.

5 November 2002, 05:43 PM
I concur with Marusame, the two that you think should get DSPs could (and probably should) get them. There's no reason for the whole group to get one or none. Sounds like your players are trying to railroad you. Don't let that happen.

The two that did the acts of evil (and cutting the head off of a ST while said ST is stunned is certainly evil) would quickly be recipients of DSPs in my game, while the two that weren't even involved are quite safe from the evil taint of the other two.

So whack those two with DSPs and tell them that just because they do bad, doesn't mean everyone is bad.

Talon Razor 'GM'
5 November 2002, 05:49 PM
Right. Its just that the one that robbed said the party help him and head-chopper says that everyone was killing. And sorry for the misunderstanding, I didn't mean a party DSP but everyone in the group gets a DSP. Sorry I didn't clarfiy that.

5 November 2002, 06:00 PM
I would give a DSP to the guy who chopped the stunned ST's head off and anyone else that killed someone who didn't pose a threat, i.e. someone who was incapacitated of unarmed in some way. I don't really think the people robbing the store really deserve a DSP... but then again I have been meaning to reread The Force section yet again

5 November 2002, 06:46 PM
Give the whole party two DSPs for arguing with the GM. :D

Seriously, though, I agree with what has been said before. Regardless of what actions qualify for DSPs in your game, you are the GM , and the players have to live with your decision. If they would like to discuss it after the session ends, listen to their case, and change your ruling if they have a very good argument (from your post, I don't think they do). In general, DSPs are a measure of a character's relation to the darkside, not a party's.

5 November 2002, 07:21 PM
DSPs are all about the actions of an individual. Otherwise every army who has one sadistic soldier would automatically be evil.

5 November 2002, 07:37 PM
I agree with what is beign said. if two pcs act in an evil manner, they get the dsp/s, the whole group might have been killing, but a stunned ST is out of action and not a threat. and robbing a store is an evil act no matter the reason. if they want to argue, give them 2 for arguing. like the rest have said, it is your game, and it is your decision.

Troy Henist
6 November 2002, 12:23 AM
I definately would give the guy who killed the stunned ST a DSP. But I wouldn't give any for robbing the store. I would have if they killed the clerk, but as they only stunned him, then no.

6 November 2002, 06:50 AM
I don't know if you can give dark side points to an R2 unit -- you can't in D6 anyway. But if I were to give one for that, I'd give it to the droid's owner, since he's the one that ordered it to cut off the stormtrooper's head.

6 November 2002, 07:29 AM
The guy who chopped off the head, deserves a DSP.

The rest maybe not so much. I would however "award" them with some very serious law enforcement problems.

Even depending on their group affiliations, maybe some trouble there.

Just my two credits.

6 November 2002, 09:27 AM
I don't know... it may deserve a DSP, but I, and GMs in games where I'm a player, don't really give DSPs for coup de graces. I mean just because he's stunned at the moment doesn't mean he's not going to be a threat in a minute; all's fair in battle.

Talon Razor 'GM'
6 November 2002, 09:37 AM
Hmm...good pointironwolf .Yes, but they could have escaped. They had a captured speeder outside, they were just loading up on loot from the store. (Yes...I think they are going to be a bunch of shoot-first-ask-later type of guys.) So it was uneeded killing. (and they just saved an imperail officer and they go and kill a 4 ST) That is why I am more leaning towards DSP for that.

6 November 2002, 10:03 AM
OK, the defel ordered his R2 to use a SAW to cut off someone's head while they were unconscious. That's pretty grisly, and pretty evil. Lay that DSP on him.

If the players were really ticking me off, I might even give the Defel two, and everyone else one - but this is just me spouting off a bit. You have to take into account the character's apparent thinking and attitudes at the time, though.

Just as an aside, I didn't think R2 units, or any non-combat droid, could kill a sentient being. I was always under the impression that the programming wouldn't allow it.

Who the heck are these guys anyway? It's Star Wars, not D&D, so where did they get the looting impulse? They definitely need to face consequences of some kind. If you don't want to give the rest of the group DSPs (even though they killed a mess of people who were, frankly, at that moment in time, right), follow up on strensk's suggestion and make sure that there are consequences in the game.

Their lives should be very difficult for awhile.

You sound like a pretty decent GM, Talon Razor. You listened to your players, and took what they had to say into account. Now you make your ruling, perhaps explain it, but tell them that it stands (whatever that ruling may be). Be firm.

Good luck. :)

Talon Razor 'GM'
6 November 2002, 10:13 AM
Who the heck are these guys anyway? It's Star Wars, not D&D, so where did they get the looting impulse?

One is a pre-D&D player, the other is a bit of a troublemaker. The other two were following their lead (and mad at the looter cuz we left off were they had ST, Local Police and armored units purseing them. They are going to pay, belive me :D) And that R2 unit was major shorting out but now that I think about it, I think I made an error allowing it to whack the head off. Thanks for all the help. Will have to give the Defel the DSP. Thanks again!

Lord Diggori
6 November 2002, 03:32 PM
In my opinion everyone that killed during the robbery gets a DSP, but from your responses to my thread you may think me too loose with DSPs :D

Talon Razor 'GM'
6 November 2002, 03:40 PM
That was the arugement the Defel gave me. Anyhoo, it will tie into my campaign pretty good. I wanted to introduce this criminal ring that they could freelance for. It sounds like they are going to be a group of wandering bounty hunters/rouges and the criminal aspect mght let them do this. The only problem is that the Ex-D&D player wants to roleplay a physcotic killer. He is a bit....hyper and thinks the Defel rocks and wants to be this assassin, crazy type of guy. So i think this might be a reocurring problem.

6 November 2002, 09:47 PM
If it makes them happy to give everybody a DSP, heck give'em one. But definitely DSPs need to happen in this situation. This little scene doesn't even feel very Star Wars'ish to me. But telling a droid to decapitate certainly warrants a DSP and and Imperial Wanted poster like you wouldn't believe. If there are Stormtroopers on this planet, there may very well be holocams everywhere (to make it easier to patrol of course :D ) and the party seeing themselves on Imperials Most Wanted on the Holonews should make them think twice about murdering people, even evil little Stormtroopers (they have moms too, I think...) If the group is really having fun then I suppose it's okay, but I would definitely penalize them for acting so unheroicly.

8 November 2002, 02:36 PM
I'd give a DSP to those that killed, and a "minor evil action" mark to the others. if they continue to act that way (or even simply to agree with the evil act of others) i'd give a DSP to them also.
If there where any Jedi among the party DSP to them immediatly.

And of course have these illegal actions provoke in game reactions (such as security forces hunting down them, for example, but also common people starting to avoid /don't trust them, make them unwelcome wherever they go and so on)

Talon Razor 'GM'
8 November 2002, 03:37 PM
I talked to the player running the Defel yesterday. He says he is wanting to roleplay a physotic killer. Now, I think that this scene might be repeated quite a few times. If he is roleplaying a nutcase, does he still get DSP? How do I handle someone that is wanting to shoot everyone?? We have in the party:

Defel Scout

Genosasion (sp?) Soldier

Trandoshan Soldier

Human Tech Sp.

They are on Ord Mantell, Rebellion area, just before A New Hope.

8 November 2002, 04:45 PM
Ask yourself this: Does a psychotic killer fit that group and the tempo of the campaign you are running? If not, then go the way that the old Star Wars system and when the PC reaches a set amount of DSPs, take the character away and tell the player to make a new one (one that better fits the game you're playing). If you think you can get it to fit in, or if you really want your players to play whatever their little hearts desire (something I think, as a GM, isn't conducive to good group gaming) then continue to give out DSPs to the guy whenever he does something bad and put a lot of in-game reprecussions for the other PCs running around with a wanted killer.

You also asked, do you give DSPs to someone that is roleplaying a psychotic killer. Of course! Why shouldn't you? Do you think that the Dark Side isn't interested in a psychotic killer? Just because the character doesn't think what they are doing is wrong, doesn't make it right. I'd start whipping out DSPs right and left for the guy if I let him continue to play the character. Be sure to include those in-game consequences, though. Psychotic killers are hunted, and the more they kill, the harder they're hunted and the less likely they'll receive fair treatment upon capture.

The main thing, though, is to decide if you really want that type of character in your game. Are the other's playing heroes? Is the intent to be the good guys? Would the other characters really associate with such a character? You make the call.

P-Za Lord
9 November 2002, 04:17 AM
As for the store robbery, I don't think any DSPs are forthcoming for that. It isn't a Force transgression to rob a store unless they were doing some some real anger or hatred type activity inside. You could possibly give a DSP to any instigators of the robbery that took everything they could get and left the shopkeeper pretty much penniless, smashed up everything out of spite, robbed the Give-A-Credit-Take-A-Credit dish, etc.. Your call.

As far as I can tell, everything was going smoothly (Dark Side Point-wise anyhow) up until the time the Stormtrooper showed up to investigate the robbery. Now if they mowed him down as he was pulling up in the speeder, or while he was asking them to surrender, whoever did it might be eligible for a DSP, depending on the specific circumstances. If he just pulled up and started shooting at the robbers, then, no point for killing him.

I don't have enough details about the 3 police being killed to say for sure whether their deaths deserve a DSP, probably not. Can't tell though.

As for the 2 Storm Troopers that came in, the one who was killed in the fighting isn't much of a concern. The one who was stunned does warrant some attention. But first, realize that being Stunned is not the same as being Helpless. You cannot Coup-de-Grace a Stunned opponent. It is easier to hit them however, and they drop anything they are holding. Even a Knocked-Out character is not technically considered Helpless. They have to be tied-up or Unconscious to be considered Helpless.

As such, the death of the Storm Trooper does not warrant a DSP in itself. He was still involved in the fight, and I assume he was only stunned for 1 round, as per Revised Rules on making your save against a stun weapon. Technically, that wouldn't be enough to make him a non-threat, but from the way you describe things, I will assume you considered him Helpless at the time. If such is the case, treat it as if a Helpless person was slain.

Having said that, deliberately killing or injuring (or allowing someone to kill or injure) a helpless person, even someone whom you know has done evil acts and felt no remorse, may be cause for a DSP in your game. And for all we know, that Storm Trooper may not have ever done anything evil. Just a hometown kid who joined the Empire to help make a difference stopping robbers from hurting shopkeepers. Your call.

However, the sheer brutality and torture involved in his death warrants a DSP to the Defel. So he should definitely get one for the Storm Trooper's death, possibly two if you considered the trooper helpless and the death needless, and I think you did.

As for the rest of it, there may have been some dark side calls elsewhere, but I can't really say from what I've read.

As for the R2 unit. That is some pretty nasty business, they shouldn't inflict harm on a sentient being like that, soo.. I think we're gonna have to assume that it's gone completely haywire. Apparently, because its owner ordered it to decapitate a person, it has decided that it's perfectly acceptable to decapitate creatures that are not moving much. Let's assume its warped programming now assumes that a creature stops being sentient once it's unconscious or asleep. So unless the Defel gives it a memory wipe real quick, it just might roll on up to him while he's asleep and think to itself, "He said it was perfectly acceptable to do this." *Bzzzz!* (and sleeping characters are considered helpless.)

If you want to be nice, which I don't personally recommend, you can give some warning of this by having it roll over to sleeping or knocked out NPCs, withdraw the spinning saw and start to go to work unless someone orders it to do something else. Then if no one gets the hint, the next time they fall asleep, fair game.

10 November 2002, 03:35 AM
As others have said, it sounds like your real problem is that two of your players don't really want to play Star Wars. They need to either "get with the mood" of the setting, or be shown the door.