View Full Version : Immaturity Rampant on HoloNet: News at 11

FlipDog 2000
14 November 2002, 07:35 AM
I have a Rant about the HoloNet, not about the way its being run, instead about the constant immaturity in threads, posts and other venues.

A fellow HoloNetter said that the purpose of these forums was to help out newcomers to the game and to improve the gaming experience. About a month ago, I asked the simple question of why there were no "meaningful" posts on the HoloNet. It finally came down to just a dry spell in topics. But it seems to have turned in to something much, much worse.
The only place it seems to post now is here and in the HotShot Quiz. Even C&M seems to be too random. I can be immature at times and usually I am, but even I have to draw the line somewhere.

So please, please tell me how you feel about this situation. Personally, I would like to see some more of the experienced / veteran members post, however NewComers are welcome.
I mean no personal offense. If you take offense, then that's your assessment of the situation.

Rogue Janson
14 November 2002, 08:03 AM
I can't really say I agree with you on this. The d20 forum, where I spend most of my time is going strong, plenty of questions still getting asked and answered, despite not having that much new to talk about (the arms & equipment guide didn't raise all that many queries - probably a good thing compared to other WotC books). There's lots of good stuff in the GM forum and, despite maybe a bit of a slowdown, in the general rpg discussions.

The era forums have some pretty good discussions going on, even the Rebellion one, which is often a little empty.

Certainly, there are some puerile threads in C&M at the moment, but I don't think it's too bad, there's nothing wrong with getting it out of the sysem from time to time. I know I don't need to point out the irony of calling a forum title "chaos & miscellanea" too random. The freeze on political discussions may have thinned out the serious threads a bit (though maybe I'm biased ... it is part of my degree). The only forum I've noticed a particular lack of substance in has actually been this one, probably because a) Wizards haven't released any screwed up books recently; and b) no-one's had any Jar-Jar related incidents for a while.

There does seem to have been an influx of new members, or people returning, recently who have been 'settling in', but they seem to be integrating.

I've seen the holonet better before - it always picks up whenever there's a major release of course - but I wouldn't say it's particularly bad at the moment.

And if you want more threads of a certain type, there's a surefire way to get them, which is to start them yourself.

14 November 2002, 08:58 AM
I tend to agree with Flipdog. Between the votes on who is hotter, everyone's (including mine) griping about receiving a bad vote or people wanting to know why there Badge Ranking hasn't reached Grand Admiral of the Holonet yet it seems that the holonet is starting to lose some of its flash. When I first discovered this site it took me at leats a week and a half to read all the submissions and conversions and I was like WOW!!! These people are good now I am lucky if in two weeks I see a topic that will grab my interest. I think we would all like to see and end to the wasted space that complaints take up and a return to the quality posts that we have come to know and love on this board.

14 November 2002, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by smokn_willie
I think we would all like to see and end to the wasted space that complaints take up and a return to the quality posts that we have come to know and love on this board.

Now there's an ironic statement. A complaining post telling people to stop wasting space with their complaining?

Chaos and Miscellanea has always been the refuge for "anything goes" discussion. The rest of Holonet is pretty tight as far as topicality goes, so having a space where everyone can cut loose and engage in silly topics is both vital and necessary to the continued health of this board, IMHO. It keeps all the offtopic and "wahoo" discussion confined so it doesn't spill over into other fora. But that doesn't mean you have to read it.

And I don't know about you, but if I don't visit Holonet for a couple of days, when I come back there are five pages of messages about SWRPG topics -- and relatively few of them are C&M or Rants topics. There is still a lot of valuable material and discussion going on here. Enough that I have a difficult time keeping up anymore.

Complaining is easy; stepping up to the plate and holding yourself to the standards you demand of others -- that's a little bit more difficult. If you're really that concerned, I would like to humbly recommend you take your own advice and lead by example, rather than demanding that others take up what you feel is slack. That's the great thing about Holonet; anyone can start a new discussion or present new material and get a lot of immediate feedback. So if you want to see some useful material or an insightful discussion -- start one up. I can practically guarantee you'll get a good response from the other members of the community.

evan hansen
14 November 2002, 10:30 AM
As with all things in life, that which is shiny and new retains interest without difficulty.

A new car. A new toy. A new game. A new friend, even.

All things -- indeed, any number of those things -- get a little tired after a while. Sometimes people post silly things because they're bored. Sometimes an absence of good posts lets the bad ones shine through. Sometimes it's just easier to focus on the bad posts.

Whatever the reason, the solution is simple: Be patient.

All things go through a dip in use or quality, and patience and perservenece are the only things that will help.

In this case, there's a lack of posts. That's to be expected. There's only so much that a group of folks can cover. But as new users pop up, new questions will be born. New products will feed new speculation and inquiry. And new homemade items will do the same. Speaking for starwars-rpg.net, the Online Journal will be coming back soon. And it's looking to be quite useful and inspirational. In short, take the bad in stride and realize there's some good not far behind.

And just seeing the creativity and level and amount of content that's going into that thing first hand, I can assure you that the community is strong, and you'll find that, with a little time, the holonet will see a dip in posts turn into a big run in activity; a dip in quality will turn into an intellectual void that needs to be filled; and, in some cases, some of the worst posters will learn how to be some of the most useful helpers out there.

Best of luck, and keep an eye out; you never know what the holonet might bring. :)

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
14 November 2002, 10:36 AM
[Yoda Voice]To evan hansen you listen, yes.[/Yoda Voice]

Seriously though, the HoloNet is like a Sine wave - it has it's ups and it's downs. Plus, I have found that you get back from the HoloNet community what you put in.

Talonne Hauk
14 November 2002, 11:42 AM
Hey, Flipdog, Smokn_willie, if you're not hapy with what yo see around here, lead by example. Create threads that you would like to see. Create your own buzz and see what happens.

14 November 2002, 11:50 AM
I am 34 years old an still consider myself VERY immature. Many of my posts in some of the forums are full of humor and childishness. But I also like to think of myself as somewhat serious and controlled (maybe). After RPing for 20 years, I still look at the game (D&D, Star Wars, CoC, or Champions, Etc.) as a new toy with wonder and amazement. There is a love I have for the game nothing else can replace (except maybe Cheryl, but that's another story). I REALLY hope that those who are more experienced than I at posting will have patience with me, for I am new at internet posting. All I can say is something I learned in the US Army, be flexible. The service taught me that many types of people exist, and in that situation, one MUST live with and survive with them. Bullets don't care if he's your friend or not, but if his rifle is covering your butt, than you need him.

In a public forum such as ours, a similar situation exists. As gamers, we tend to be outspoken (nature of the gamer subtype) and we are opinionated and sometimes immature. Many of us are rather young (even if it may be at heart like me -wheeze...-) As GMs and players in a public place, for this forum to survive, we must tolerate some bad posts for the greater whole to prosper. I myself do not frequent the C&M forum. I am here for gaming stuff and to occasionally post a little myself. I don't have a lot of new information to add for I think my material isn't good enough for you guys. But the game posts are pretty good overall. There is a lull right now. But it will pick up.

I am very sorry for posting my feelings in such a public way. It is not like me. I hope you all can forgive my opinion if it doesn't match yours. I like this website and it gives me a lot of fun to read. I don't have a game to play in right now, so this is one of the few ways I can stay exposed to gaming and Roleplaying in general. To all those in charge, thanks for a great website and kudos for making it so awesome.

Jim Gallant

14 November 2002, 06:48 PM
As has been mentioned, I think it's important that everyone realizes that this site, this Star Wars community, is what we make of it. Sure, there are people who have posted some material that may be too light-hearted and not have any serious content to it. As was stated, that's why those threads are in the the C&M forum. I'm not sure if there are many other threads in other forums that could really be taken as worthless or childish. They may not be in relation to topics that everyone (you, Flipdog, or you, Smokin willie) is interested in, but that's the wonder of this place. If you want to talk about something that interests you, simply start a thread! As others have said, lead by example.

I try to provide input on any thread that interests me, including this one. I've seen some people complaining about the lack of community, or lack of intelligent posting, yet I don't really see those same people ever starting their own threads to talk about any of the subjects that really interest them. That's not to say that none of you have ever done that, I don't follow all of your posting habits close enough to know that. Generally, however, if you've got a hankering for information, or if you've got a wonderful idea or insight for something, create a new thread about it. Get other's thoughts on it. Cause others to think about thought provoking, intelligent matters rather than on who's more cute in the movies (not that I'm picking on Arcome for posting that, he did it in the appropriate forum, and it's been tasteful enough I don't have a problem with it).

Also realize that not everyone will find the same things that you do interesting. You may post something, as I've seen people do in the past, and have only one person respond. Maybe people just don't have the same interests in the same areas of Star Wars. So don't get too upset if you do create a thread and you don't have a dozen responses right away. Usually, though, creating new threads with interesting topics will get people to respond, and will cause others to think about more exciting and helpful things for the game.

If I was feeling more enthusiastic about Star Wars (I'm not playing it nowadays, so my interest is lower) I'd probably jump at the challenge to create a dozen new threads to promote discussion on this site. I'm only a single person, though. I know that at least two of you think that the site has lost some of it's "posting power" or whatever you want to call it. Well change that by providing insight into new discussions about Star Wars. We all can't rely on the "other guy" to always do all the thinking for us and come up with all of the interesting topics. I think you'll find that if you start some good discussions, you'll generate people's interest and more threads will pop up that will be interesting and less "childish".

Lord Kjeran
14 November 2002, 07:53 PM

I would not say immature, but things seem sorta slow lately...maybe's it's just the beginning of the Holiday season...or maybe we all have lives now! ;)

d6 is ~really~ slow..and that's still my favorite version...although i like Jedi in d20 better. That's much of an issue since I've never since the 80's, had anyone play a Jedi...weird, huh/ Opps, I'm rambling..stay on Target....


FlipDog 2000
14 November 2002, 08:10 PM
I don't mean to point fingers...and I most certainly am not trying to offend. I am just stating my opinion, which is what this forum is for...or so I thought. And "lead by example?" What do you think this thread has done today? As I see it right now, this thread is a conversation where people are stating their opinions on a topic posted. Granted its not always the most positive of feedback, but this is a prime example of what I would like to see more of: Intelligent conversation that we can all get something out of. Now the topic needs only to be Star Wars.

However, I am still for random silliness from time to time, I am the EPITOME of random silliness, but even I know when to settle things down and have a meaningful disscussion.

So please, don't think I am pointing fingers at you guys. I'm just staating my feelings on the matter.

15 November 2002, 06:56 AM
Personally I think this is one of the better boards out there. Lots of good discussions, especially on the D20 side of things.

There are some good suggestions and rules clarifications.

Not to mention most of the debates are pretty good. I've seen a lot of posts where I've done some thinking afterwords about the subject when it comes the game and my SW universe.

If you want to see a lot of immaturity go over to some of the Wizard's boards. If you say something contradictory over there people take it personally.

If you are that thin skinned I say either don't post, or don't read the boards.

15 November 2002, 10:45 AM
I kinda agree, but kinda don't.

The immaturity level of the HoloNet is a relative thing ... sometimes a friendly banter can be just nonsense (and still be fun), and other times when people are having a heated discussion of concepts of 'The Force' and characters and such, and someone makes an offhand remark that has no bearing and is immature, it ruins the thread for a moment or two ... and can sometimes end it entirely.

So I see where you're comin from Flip.

15 November 2002, 11:21 AM
Role playing is a game and games are suppose to be fun and not taken seriously. Being "immature" comes with the territory. Starting a thread of "who is hotter?" or "who can defeat who?" helps break up the seriousnous that some of these threads tend to lead to. I find that some of the threads get too serious on the Holonet and I welcome the light hearted topics. I sometimes wonder if some ppl actually think that they are the "character" that they are using for their game. Well, that is a different subject altogether.

The bottom line is if you do not like the topic of the thread then do not read it. It is that simple.

15 November 2002, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by D-Roc
The bottom line is if you do not like the topic of the thread then do not read it. It is that simple.

It's not always that easy ... sometimes the topic of the thread is interesting, but the thread has been seriously derailed or the ideas are just completely different than what the thread title implies ... so you hafta read it ...

I don't mind the threads that are clearly marked ... its the ones where it was a serious thread, and it was de-railed or hijacked that I hate.

15 November 2002, 12:50 PM
Does derailing this thread into a discussion about thread hijacking count?

Just kidding, sorry -- hijacking can be a problem, but I think most users on Holonet are canny and considerate enough that a polite nudge back towards the topic is enough to put things back on track. Especially when a moderator pipes up.

You've made your dislike of thread hijacking well known many times over, VoV, and I definitely sympathize, but I think you might find honey works better than vinegar in that regard. I can't recall any instance of a user flatly refusing a request to please get back on topic. Whereas rolling one's eyes and insulting the posters and / or thread can just make things worse.

So I think the maturity issue swings both ways in that regard.

15 November 2002, 05:19 PM
I haven't noticed a dip in quality or immaturity on the holonet at all... Perhaps I'm alone in this observation, and besides, how much maturity can you consistently expect on an Internet message board?

Corr Terek
17 November 2002, 06:23 AM
I'm with Alfred -- I haven't noticed any sort of decline in maturity at all. I for one try to take things seriously enough, but not so seriously that I'm offended by a contradictory opinion or whatnot. It's just a game, I have a life, and they do remain distinctly separate. (Despite what some of my friends think ;-) )

Corr Terek
17 November 2002, 05:51 PM
On second thought, I just came into contact with some of that out-of-Chaos &Miscellanea immaturity. I have changed my position accordingly.

Having fun is good, but (even though fun and SWRPG are meant to be combined) making stupid topics or comments isn't the best way to go about things.

21 November 2002, 08:52 AM
I am pretty new here, and even I would have to agree. I am even guilty of posting stuff that might not be that usefull, but this website may have gone astray from it's orininal purpose. I think that this website has become more of what it was originally intented for, not less. I like this site, I'm not saying that you don't or that you are bad mouthing it, I'm just stating what I have concluded form being here. This place is more than just a place for players and fans. You can just sort of hang out here too. Which I think is a very cool thing. Arcome