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Iain Kysler, Jedi Apprentice
30 November 2002, 07:17 AM
...the Jedi strike team that Anakin led.

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Okay. Who all was on the strike team? So far, I've got a list of 17 Jedi, which had already been reduced to 16 or 15 by the time the shuttle managed to land on the Baanu Raas. Who all died with the strike team? I'm going by what was said in the NJO Sourcebook, and it's somewhat vague. I get the feeling, though, that I'm not going to like the answer to the following question:

Does Tahiri get toasted along with Anakin? That would royally suck, especially after all the work he put into saving Tahiri.

Excuse me...now I'm just going to vent my thoughts on Anakin's demise....



WHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! #$^#&$%~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's NOT FAIR!!!!

Nova Spice
30 November 2002, 09:24 AM
I've discussed Anakin's death many times on the Holonet, along with Chewbacca's and it seems as if everyone doesn't understand that the heroes are not protected anymore. Just as Obi-Wan Kenobi died, just as Yoda died, just as Anakin Skywalker died (the protagonist of all six films!), so does Chewbacca and Anakin Solo die. Star Wars has never been a saga in which the good guys always come out alive, that's a cartoon series, not a story set in a galaxy far, far away... ;) :D
Anakin died because he chose to die to save his brother and sister, because he knew that he had to buy the survivors time to destroy the Voxyn Queen. He chose his destiny, much like Obi-Wan Kenobi chose his in A New Hope.

As far as the strike team goes, here is a breakdown for you Iain:

Survivors:
-Jacen Solo (captured)
-Jaina Solo
-Ganner Rhysode
-Tahiri Veila (no she doesn't get toasted :D )
-Alema Rar
-Zekk
-Tenel Ka
-Tesar Sebatyne
-Tekli
-Lowbacca

KIA:
-Anakin Solo
-Ulaha Kore
-Krasov Hara
-Bela Hara
-Eryl Besa
-Jovan Drark
-Raynar Thul

That's a breakdown of the strike team. I hope that helps you Iain! :D ;)

Iain Kysler, Jedi Apprentice
30 November 2002, 10:17 AM
Thanks, Nova, that was exactly what I was looking for...looking for some lower-level Jedi students that my PCs might be able to interact with on one of our upcoming missions...one to the caves of Ambria, a place very strong in the Force.

Ardent
1 December 2002, 05:26 PM
Technically, Raynar Thul is MIA. Nobody can confirm his death.

However, I'd guess he's effectively dead, since no author seems to care about him or the Darksiders.

Nova Spice
3 December 2002, 05:00 PM
Technically, Raynar Thul is MIA. Nobody can confirm his death.

True and I hope he does turn out to be alive down the road. I was a bit disturbed in Destiny's Way when he was mentioned as KIA by Cal Omas in his speech at the Knighting ceremony. :(

I also wonder what has become of Lomi Plo and Welk? And of course Lowbacca's poor translator droid. Those two Dark Jedi were evil to the core and I imagine they'd make great future villains or possibly temporary allies in the war against the Vong. You never know and I hope this little event isn't left with a question mark.

Jedi Master Talon
11 December 2002, 10:14 AM
I think Lomi Plo and Welk are seducing Raynar with the dark side and that would truly suck. By the way who was his Master. Loss track of it.
And don't forget the droids they were on the team.:D

Ardent
12 December 2002, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by Jedi Master Talon
I think Lomi Plo and Welk are seducing Raynar with the dark side and that would truly suck. By the way who was his Master. Loss track of it.
And don't forget the droids they were on the team.:D

Raynar Thul was a product of the praxeum, not any specific master. He was, at the time of his disappearance, a fully recognized Jedi Knight I believe.

Keep in mind Raynar was a Jedi Consular by training and a merchant's son by background. The likelihood of Welk and Lomi Plo trying something Raynar hasn't seen before is slim. Besides, he's still hard-up physically.

Darien_Shadowfyre
12 December 2002, 11:29 PM
Uhhh Anakin's death was still BS. Chewie, and I did love him, was primarily a supporting character, nothing more. Anakin had been designed complete with destiny and foreshadowing in NJO as a main character. His death served NO PURPOSE. I thought of a couple different ways that scene could have played differently the first time I read it through alone. His sacrifice had no meaning. It was a cheap tactic to drive the story forward. Especially considerin the author, Troy Denning, is a well known Whacker of Main PCs (read the Cormyr Trilogy for the Forgotten Realms, he kills off of writes off almost every well known character).

First rule of gaming and drama, is that if you have to kill a main character, make it mean something. It didn't. It fell short of that by a mile. If his death was TRULY necessary, it could have been handled alot better. Chewie's death moved me to tears. Anakin made me angry, not because of how good the scene was, but because of how bad it was. In real life ware death IS pointless. I know that. However I'm shoving out good money for DRAMA not realism. I want realism, I'll go watch CNN. For all the "characters aren't safe" BS that is so highly touted, note so far, only Chewie and Anakin have died to my knowledge (i'm currently on Rebel Duology). Thats not exactly a record to inspire terror in every page, because quite frankly, no one else is going to die in a paperback novel. It will only be in one of the hugely expensive hardbacks, so they can ensure sales. Its a cheap ploy to justify why some are paperback & some are hardback. That is one of the two things of the NJO I cannot and will not forgive. Aside from those 2 points (note I'm not naming No 2 to stay VAGUELY on topic), I love the NJO books and eagerly await the next one.

*whew* <end rant> I think will AVOID checking this thread cause I'm sure I just made some people angry but I just finished Star By Star again about an hour ago, so the wound is fresh

Codym
13 December 2002, 05:07 AM
Anakin was killed off by an editorial decision.

One reason was new readers could confuse the character with Anakin Skywalker, and the second was Authors were confusing him with Anakin Skywalker.

All the foreshadowing that came towards his "Great Destiny" was aimed at the either the Solo children in general, or came in the quick fill in novels that made up the Edge of Victory (which focused on Anakin.) He had a lot of promise, but he wasn't the "Chosen One." He was a popular character, but not an absolute favourite (this of course changed once he left the series.) Also, his whole destiny bit was then lobbed off on to Jacen, who was all ready a more interesting character (until Traitor) and just as connected to the Force.

I admit, his death negated the whole guilt thing he was dealing with over Chewie's death (later authors tended to forget about that,) but it was probably a good idea to cut down the confusion and concentrait on the twins.

Iain Kysler, Jedi Apprentice
13 December 2002, 10:15 AM
Alright. Now I'm slightly...peeved...

How can you compare Jacen to Anakin? Jacen was reluctant to do ANYTHING until it was absolutely necessary! It nearly cost him his mother's life and (I think it was Jaina next...) his sister's life! Anakin was never, ever afraid to act, even if some harm came of it. And in Edge of Victory, he seemed to be picking up more wisdom and weighing his choices a bit more carefully! Not only that, but I wanted to see where the thing between he and Tahiri went...

...but nooooo...they've got to have that total (in my opinion) wimp Jacen take over...Grrrrrrrr...and how can you say Jacen was a more interesting character? All I saw from Jacen was hesitancy! Should I should I not do this? What effect might this have? What happens if I do this and then this happens? Paralysis by analysis. Nope. Jacen was definately in my opinion the family weakling. Anakin and Jaina were carrying on Han's lineage (Anakin a bit more than Jaina, I think, although I'm not sure), and Jacen was his mother's son for certain. Even on Dantooine, where it was absolutely necessary that they stop the enemy cold before they got to the innocents, Jacen hesitates. Anakin? No. He knew it needed to be done, did it, and had the nightmares afterwards to prove it.

It really, REALLY pissed me off when I found out he died. I'm not sure I want to buy Star by Star (I've managed to get some more reading done) because he dies in it...I guess it's my childish side coming out 'If you don't read it/see it, it never happened' sort of thing.

Also, I'm kind of ticked off that Anakin Solo's stats weren't in the NJO Sourcebook. That was REALLY cheap. Anybody know where I can find them, and, if not, are they out of print or something? Been looking for a while, and can't seem to find them...

Darien_Shadowfyre
13 December 2002, 11:34 PM
In defense of Jacen, this was also an author-based problem. If you notice, in each book, he seems to have a revelation that will finally pull him out of his Latest Stupid Philosophical Exercise, and push him onwards in his evolution when the NEXT author feels "hey lets give him ANOTHER stupid moral quandary!!!!!" I haven't gotten through the Rebel Duology yet, but I am so far inclined to agree, that the author/editorial process ruined ANOTHER good character. Jacen originally had some good potential, but like Anakin, he was wasted, just in a different manner.

Also a point I"ve been noticing, I think the two of the writers agree with me, because at least 2 novels so far keep mentioning that Anakin "had something" and that his death cost them answers on the horizon, etc etc. It may just be wishful thinking, but the style and frequency of these comments felt to me like the current authors rebuking Anakin's demise, as stupid, almost as if they had their own plans for that character that got severed without consultation by Denning and the editors. *shrug* I'm probably reading too much into it.

Nova Spice
14 December 2002, 04:53 PM
Wow, it still blows my mind away! :D

Not only have there been constant debates over this subject, but it always seems that they are usually solved. I've found myself defending the deaths of Chewie and Anakin on at least half a dozen threads (this one included). Well, I suppose it's time for me to step up on my soapbox again. :D


His sacrifice had no meaning. It was a cheap tactic to drive the story forward. Especially considerin the author, Troy Denning, is a well known Whacker of Main PCs (read the Cormyr Trilogy for the Forgotten Realms, he kills off of writes off almost every well known character).

Well first off, Troy Denning had no decision in killing off Anakin. The NJO "bible" as Shelly Shapiro has mentioned a number of times, has the story already written out. Troy had to kill Anakin because it was already in the plotline. He did not make that decision. I just want to clarify that.


Thats not exactly a record to inspire terror in every page, because quite frankly, no one else is going to die in a paperback novel. It will only be in one of the hugely expensive hardbacks, so they can ensure sales. Its a cheap ploy to justify why some are paperback & some are hardback. That is one of the two things of the NJO I cannot and will not forgive.

Actually Elegos A'Kla died in Dark Tide II: Ruin ( a major character from other EU books). And since you are only on the Enemy Lines Duology, I won't spoil anything for you, but we'll just say that another main character perishes in a paperback you've yet to read. ;)
As far as it being a ploy for hardback and paperback, that's not a very fair comment IMO. Hardbacks have the main character deaths because they are the main books. The paperbacks are generally just support material; that's why they are paperbacks. Its not a ploy, its standard writing in a series such as the NJO.


Also a point I"ve been noticing, I think the two of the writers agree with me, because at least 2 novels so far keep mentioning that Anakin "had something" and that his death cost them answers on the horizon, etc etc. It may just be wishful thinking, but the style and frequency of these comments felt to me like the current authors rebuking Anakin's demise, as stupid, almost as if they had their own plans for that character that got severed without consultation by Denning and the editors. *shrug* I'm probably reading too much into it.

This statement right here answers your question on Anakin's death. The fact that he could "sense" the Vong as early as Conquest was his special "something" that the authors mentioned. Now that he's dead, it makes his death even more meaningful, albeit to the other characters. The fact is, you've yet to get to Traitor. When you do, I think you might realize that Anakin's death still has a mighty important effect on Jacen. And believe me, his death will still have an important revelation in the final books of the series.

Remember, the NJO still has five books left. I wouldn't go so far as to beat up Mr. Denning and thrash the NJO storyline so far until the series is over. I imagine you'll be pleasantly surprised. Anyway, I wasn't picking on you Darien; just using some of your comments to boost some of my own thoughts. ;)