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View Full Version : Star Wars = Real Wars?



coldskier0320
9 January 2003, 05:08 PM
I cant put my finger on anything right now, but does anyone else see ALOT of similarity between the original trilogy and WW2 and between the prequels and the american civil war? (sorry, if it should be somwhere else)

dgswensen
9 January 2003, 08:41 PM
I believe there's a documentary on one of the prequel DVDs that shows a tremendous similarity between many of the space battles and WWII combat footage. I believe the FX were closely modeled on them. So that they look similar, I think is very deliberate.

As far as how similar they might be historically; I don't know enough military history to say, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Rogue Janson
11 January 2003, 02:55 AM
Certainly the attack on the Death Star is very much based on WWII air combats. The Dam Busters is an obvious reference, and the line "I see about twenty gun, some on the surface some on the towers" comes from "I see about ten guns, some in the fields some in the towers" in the Dam Busters.

The Battle of Hoth is more reminiscent of a WWI battle, with the trenches and all. I think the AT-ATs were meant to be similar to WWI tanks, lumbering and impervious to small arms fire.

The ground battle on Endor could be compared to Vietnam - I know it's hardly apocalypse now, but the elements of guerilla and jungle warfare are there.

I don't know all that much about the American Civil War, but I think I can see the comparison with the prequels, the way they're stand-up battles, with troops all lined up, harking back to the Napoleonic era. The battle on Geonosis actually reminds me of the more mobile world war I battles (before it settled into trench warfare), with large numbers of troops running across open battlefields.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
11 January 2003, 11:12 PM
Some of the best referance material is often history itself. Of course, minor details are changed and adapted to suit the visioner's needs...

Out of example, when luke harpooned the AT-AT from underneath and took it down, its quite possible thats a take on the infantry lobbing in grenades onto the tank's blindspots.. In a sense thats kinda a mix of both ww1 & 2.

And the B Wing / Y Wing going up against the capital ships signify the Torpedo & Bombing runs of WW... Xwing & Awings similarly doing strafing runs...

The deathstar laser could be an alteration of the a-bomb and Hiroshima.

The Empire's fleet a personification of Germany's war machine...

The Arena Battle of Geonosis reminded me of the Roman Empire era... partly on the battlefield hack and slash, but also in the coloseum for gladiatorial combat (masacre would be the better word for it)...

Vreel Kudarin
12 January 2003, 11:54 AM
The Battle for Naboo on the ground is near identical to the final battle in the classic film Spartacus. The Droid army are the Roman legions, and the Gungans, the revolutionary slaves. The shots are very similar.

The rolling flaming logs are like the rolling energy spheres. The cavalry charge at the end like the advance of the ATTs.

If anyone gets chance, watch Spartacus, it is an astounding film, much better than Gladiator. At least fast-forward to the battle to see how close this is. It must be where Lucas got his inspiration for that scene.

Droid Commander: "Which of you is Jar Jar Binks?"

All Gungan prisoners simultaneously: "MESA JAR JAR BINKS!" :p lol

coldskier0320
13 January 2003, 03:45 PM
Another thing i just remembered aboot the prequels is in AotC Palpatine calls for the formation of a "Grand Army of the Republic" this was the EXACT name of the union (northern) forces in the American Civil War

Fred Getce
14 January 2003, 05:51 AM
You do know that GL did not say "lets make a space movie about WWII or WWI or the Korean War or Vietnam or etc., etc.

Our species, because we are still a very barbaric-war like species will always watch a movie that is a cultural phenomena (like Star wats) and begin to compare things to it even though they have nothing in truth or common except they show war, violence and death.

Just goes to show you, we, as a species, need about another 10,000 years before we can even begin to bleed out our barbaric heritage.

I for one never believed Lucas was making some overture about the Civil War, Revoutionary War, WWI, WWI or any other battle in america or in the world in Star Wars.

coldskier0320
14 January 2003, 06:39 AM
Im not trying to say that GL made the movies just to put a space fantasy spin on our own worlds history, obviously, there are no jedi or other such phenomena in this world (that i know of :raised: ) but i just saw a stiking similarity between some components of the star wars galaxy and our own worlds historical events, and i just wanted to see if anybody else felt the same way i did, im not saying its intentional, just that its there :)

Fred Getce
14 January 2003, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by coldskier0320
Im not trying to say that GL made the movies just to put a space fantasy spin on our own worlds history, obviously, there are no jedi or other such phenomena in this world (that i know of :raised: ) but i just saw a stiking similarity between some components of the star wars galaxy and our own worlds historical events, and i just wanted to see if anybody else felt the same way i did, im not saying its intentional, just that its there :)

Oh, I know, but what I am saying is people in general tend to find similarities, almost by design, from one thing to another even if they have no real connection or not.

It's like the Nostrodamus predictions. They are so vague, that they could be connected to almost any event in human history. A person watches a movie that has a ship going down in a sea and people will compare it to several real life sinkings from military subs to the Titanic even though they have no connection at all.

Like Freud said. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

coldskier0320
14 January 2003, 01:03 PM
Oh...I hear ya. A couple of friends and myself got into a debate about nostradamus a while ago and i totally agree that more often than not, people like making something out of nothing. Thanks for the opinion and the clarification. :D

Vreel Kudarin
14 January 2003, 01:28 PM
Whilst similarities with real-life battles may not have been intended, it is clear that Lucas was inspired by classic battles in movies. It is definite that the Death Star I trench run was inspired by the Dambusters, and it is clear that the Naboo ground battle derives from that in Spartacus.

In an interview on Behind the Magic, it is mentioned that "George was just steeped in film-war,"

Lucas has taken all of this inspiration and thrown in a bit of the old westerns and classical mythology to create that perfect blend....."Ahhhh! can't get enough of that bacta!" - Kyle Katarn

Codym
14 January 2003, 01:59 PM
George is a big history, film and mythology buff, so its not surprising that so many of the battle scenes pay homage to famous movies, or draw influence from actual wars. (And yes, George has stated, publicly, that the Endor battle was inspired by Vietnam.)

Fred Getce
15 January 2003, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by Codym
(And yes, George has stated, publicly, that the Endor battle was inspired by Vietnam.)

I always felt it had more similarities to the British invasion against the Zulu.

I mean you have a primitive tribe in their home environment (jungle, grasslands and forests) using spears, bows, bolas, and traps (almost stone age tech). Against a heavily armed, (firearms and bayonets) troops (who dressed alike to boot with their red uniforms and all).

I always pictured that part of british history when I think of the ground battle in the Battle of Endor.

Vreel Kudarin
15 January 2003, 12:16 PM
Well, the obvious similarity is that the British Empire troops were officially Imperials, and were brutal to the local population. Other than that, I think Vietnam is a far closer comparison.

The American forces in Vietnam were vastly superior in terms of equipment, and they had heavy armoured support (like the AT-STs at Endor). Plus, the jungle terrain is far closer to that of Endor than the savannah of Africa. The Ewoks used guerilla tactics, and their knowledge of the local environment to even up the odds, just like the NLF did. The Zulus often attacked on mass, the savannah does not lend itself to guerilla attacks.

The only thing missing from both comparisons is the almighty air-support the Americans had in Vietnam, and the napalming of villages. I wonder if the Empire used agent orange to clear an area for the shield generator?
If so, they could write some EU literature about all the Woklings born with deformaties for years after the Emperor's death.

Nova Spice
15 January 2003, 03:00 PM
The only thing missing from both comparisons is the almighty air-support the Americans had in Vietnam, and the napalming of villages. I wonder if the Empire used agent orange to clear an area for the shield generator?

Yea, Vietnam was horrible and yea civilians did die. That's war unfortunately. Don't forget to mention the little three year olds that blew themselves up when our boys went into the villages...they would run up to our boys and give them a hug.....and then blow them away with a grenade. Those "innocents" were not always innocent.

Now, I agree with Vreel in claiming that Endor was a parallel to Vietnam in a way. Although the way the battle went, I believe you could probably trace some of the parallelism to Korea also. ;)

coldskier0320
18 January 2003, 12:34 PM
Heck, the way the Endor ground battle went, you can draw a parallel to GREMLINS! lol:D

coldskier0320
21 January 2003, 06:15 AM
Another parallel to WW1and/or 2 dont the imp naval officer helmets look ALOT like the german helmets of late WW1 and 2?

Tony J Case, Super Genius
22 January 2003, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by coldskier0320
Another thing i just remembered aboot the prequels is in AotC Palpatine calls for the formation of a "Grand Army of the Republic" this was the EXACT name of the union (northern) forces in the American Civil War

Actually I dont think they called it that until after the Civil War. At least, I dont recall them calling it as such during the war - it was always The Army of the Potomac.

This topic has come up before - for those of you looking for good ideas, youy'd do well to check out
this old thread (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?threadid=9633&)

coldskier0320
22 January 2003, 05:01 PM
Touché, super genius, that is correct. Anyway, great thread youve enlightened me to. Great stuff! :D

Dark Orbit
12 February 2003, 08:25 PM
Why doesnt anybody in SW put fighters in blockades?

I especially like the part when the Empire decides to blockade Hoth, and in the process, NOT Launch any TIEs to help with the blockade. Instead, all those Fighters were on the ISDs while the Ion Cannon just marrily blasted any large capital ship

The same can be seen in Ep. 1. We have all these capital ships taking pot shots at the Queen's ship, but no droid fighters. Instead of launching maybe a few, they decide to try to take it out with the big guns. Is there a disease going around in the SW universe that makes admirals and generals stupid at the worst possible moments? What is a blockade without fighters?

Tony J Case, Super Genius
13 February 2003, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Dark Orbit
I especially like the part when the Empire decides to blockade Hoth, and in the process, NOT Launch any TIEs to help with the blockade. Instead, all those Fighters were on the ISDs while the Ion Cannon just marrily blasted any large capital ship

Seems to me that there were fighters deployed at Hoth. I recall at least 4 of them - the ones chasing the Falcon. Luke didnt pick any up, since one lone fighter straggling out would be easy to miss. So at least 50 percent of the ships we see leave Hoth in any detail had fighter persuit.

Vreel Kudarin
14 February 2003, 08:38 AM
More evidence for TIEs being deployed at Hoth is that in the opening sequence of the X-wing Alliance PC game, the pair of X-wings escorting the 'Otana' away from Hoth have to engage a small group of them. You just don't get to see much of the blockade in the film, that's all.

Maybe the Trade Federation (quite understandbly) assumed it's massive fleet of war freighters with their quadlasers (which seem to be very effective at taking out transports) would deter anyone trying to run the blockade, and they wouldn't need to deploy droid fighters. Obviously they didn't bank on Artoo lol.

Possibly the bottom line is that Lucas isn't Grand Admiral Thrawn ;)

LL|Jerk
15 February 2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Vreel Kudarin
Possibly the bottom line is that Lucas isn't Grand Admiral Thrawn;)

That quite possibly is the understatement of the decade.