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View Full Version : Greatest Tactician ever in the Star Wars eras



Jedi Master Talon
10 January 2003, 10:31 AM
Who do you think is the smartest Tactian?

Kal_Myadon
10 January 2003, 10:46 AM
Thrawn, No contest even years after his death his reputation was such that even the Vong had heard of him,


Kal

dgswensen
10 January 2003, 11:15 AM
I'd have to vote for Palpatine. His actions might be more accurately described as strategy than tactics, but he set an elaborate trap for the Rebellion and came very close to crushing them with one stroke.

Jim Williams
10 January 2003, 11:18 AM
One Imp SD vs. 4 NR Assault Frigates with 3 wings of X-wings...'nuff said, Thrawn's kicks buttinski.

RoyalGuard
11 January 2003, 02:37 AM
Thrawn matched tactical and strategic genius with imagination and ruthless ambition. None stood before him, and only the fact that he didn't have a loyal bodyguard undid him. Oh and that he built his cloning chamber on a small lake...

I'd say that Bel Iblis is a close second. Then Tarkin, Ackbar and Jan Dodonna (Tarkin taught Ackbar everything he knew, but not everything that Tarkin knew!), Warmaster Lah (exploited his opponents psychological flaws but had his own significant ones), Warlord Zinjs and Admiral Pelleaon are on the rough same level IMO. Then General Wedge Antilles, General Han Solo and all the other EU commanders (including Daala) are roughly on the same level, with different particular strengths and weaknesses.

Jedi Master Talon
11 January 2003, 09:10 AM
I agree Thrawn was smart but think about Bel Iblis knew what he was thinking. Thrawn even thought him as a rival. Granted if Thrawn lived the war would have been over way before the series even started. Bel Iblis though is doing great aganist the Vong so I think they're even.

Kanner Ra'an
11 January 2003, 09:49 AM
Ackbar gets my vote. Thrawn and Tsavong Lah are both really good but that didn't stop them from winding up really dead. Next would be Bel Iblis. In rebel dream the vong called him the republics greatest tactician.

Dan Kyrinov
11 January 2003, 02:22 PM
Though I am having trouble with my Holonet account and have not been able to vote on polls lately, I would say Garm Bel Iblis if I could. As a former Corellian senator, he's got the experience, moderated insanity, political savvy, and forward-thinking to ensure him the highest spot out of these. I think being Corellian would have given him the edge over Grand Admiral Thrawn in the end. Don't get me wrong, though, nobody on the list is a slouch.

Nova Spice
13 January 2003, 03:51 PM
I think we're forgetting the best tactician from the Old Republic! Anyone remember Adar Tallon, the starfighter tactics genius? His reputation became so widespread that they even developed a maneuver named after him--the Tallon Roll as seen in A New Hope.

And I learned the other day that Adar Tallon will be appearing in some of the upcoming EU books chronicling the Clone Wars. It should be interesting to finally learn more about this man and why the Rebellion sought him out so fervently on Tatooine! :D

Overall, Thrawn's a shoe-in. His genius still lives on, long after his death and well into the New Jedi Order. ;) :p

coldskier0320
13 January 2003, 04:27 PM
I give my vote to thrawn, he's almost spooky hes so good, the only thing that screwed him was the emperors hate of nonhumans and that he depended on Vader's diplomatic skills for personal protection other than that, the NR'd be far gone by the time the Vong show up IMHOB)

mojo1701
13 January 2003, 06:11 PM
Thrawn. 'Nuff Said.




BTW, about Ackbar, there's this one website called Something Awful (http://www.somethingawful.com/), where it makes fun of Admiral Ackbar SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo much. It's annoying after a while, esp. his catchphrase "It's a trap!"

Check out the photoshop phridays there, and you'll find it there. It is sooooo annoying. At first it was funny, then it got annoying.

Anyway, rant over. Enjoy that website.

Rouge8
13 January 2003, 07:11 PM
Thrawn!
He beat Bel Ibis, stumped Ackbar, never faced Dodonna (might have been a good match), is better than any other in the Empire.
He annihilated Harkov and Zaarin!

Wedge in Red2
13 January 2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Nova Spice
I think we're forgetting the best tactician from the Old Republic! Anyone remember Adar Tallon, the starfighter tactics genius? His reputation became so widespread that they even developed a maneuver named after him--the Tallon Roll as seen in A New Hope.

And I learned the other day that Adar Tallon will be appearing in some of the upcoming EU books chronicling the Clone Wars. It should be interesting to finally learn more about this man and why the Rebellion sought him out so fervently on Tatooine! :D


Ah, yes Nova, the famed Tatooine Manhunt module from WEG. I remember it fondly. In fact, I'm fairly sure Adar Tallon and the Tallon Roll were answers to two of the questions I asked in the SW Hotshot quiz on C&M...

I voted Thrawn. It's been a while since I read the books, but the guy was a bit of a genius. The discovery of Wayland, those critters that blocked the force, the use of the cloaking device, use of the mole miners, all simply genius. The man was a serious threat to resurrect the Empire, no doubt.

Jon

Jedi Master Talon
14 January 2003, 09:56 AM
I don't ever remember Thrawn fooling Ackbar. I don't even remember if they ever fought in a fleet to fleet battle. If some has that please tell me.:)

Arcome
23 January 2003, 02:00 PM
Looks like people have been choosing Thrawn, which means that you guys actually read the books. I'm very glad to see it. Thrawn and Tarkin were both brilliant, otherwise they wouldn't be Grand Admirals. Thrawn was just to good to live if the New Repulic was ever going to have a chance. Tarkin too, DIED GUYS RULE!!

Rogue Janson
23 January 2003, 03:34 PM
Though I hate to admit it, I have to go for Thrawn. He's just made out to be the best, and I can't argue with that, much as I'd like to and despite the fact I think it's implied that he is losing his last battle, at the end of the trilogy.

Jedi Master Talon
25 January 2003, 09:32 AM
Alright Thrawn's the best no if ands or buts about. You guys gave good arguments about it.

Mr. Fett
25 January 2003, 12:52 PM
I'm going to have to say Thrawn. To bad he had to die:(. He really was a military genius.



Fett Out.

Mr. Fett
25 January 2003, 12:52 PM
I'm going to have to say Thrawn. To bad he had to die:(. He really was a military genius.



Fett Out.

Grim Fantango
25 January 2003, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by Jedi Master Talon
I don't ever remember Thrawn fooling Ackbar. I don't even remember if they ever fought in a fleet to fleet battle. If some has that please tell me.:)

The Last Command by Zahn.

Final battle, Thrawn trapped the NR Fleet at Bilbringi. Even when all Evidence pointed to wherever the heck it was pointing to. Thrawn brought a fleet to Bilbringi and prepared to open up a can of it on the NR fleet. Thrawn had Ackbar cornered. He had His ships arrayed so that that the entire NR fleet (Equal to two Fleet groups) was gonna die. The Interdicters were in a bowl shape with destroyers covering them so there was no escape. He had Ackbar by the balls till Ruuk (Thrawns bodyguard) stabbed him, killing the greatest military genius ever in SW ever, bar none.

Oh, I voted for Thrawn because of his destruction of 15 dreadnaughts using only 12 picket ships and his tatical mind.

coldskier0320
26 January 2003, 11:37 AM
out of curiosity, does anyone have any ideas aboot what happened to Rukh, the noghri that killed GA Thrawn? Id like to hope the imps could find and kill him in their own SHIP! but then again, he was a pretty stealthy being and with the battle and all going on, he just might've made it to an escape pod...any ideas?

Codym
26 January 2003, 11:51 AM
I'm pretty sure they mention that Rukh was killed in one of the latter novels.

The thing I liked about Thrawn is that he used stategies rather than firepower to defeat his enemies. Attacks would never be on just one level, and he knew when to call a tatical retreat. The other part of him that made him so cool was how he dealt out punishments/rewards to his crew - you could see why others were willing to follow him.

Jim Williams
26 January 2003, 01:27 PM
POSSIBLE THRAWN DUOLOGY SPOILER










FYI I'm pretty sure Rukh died on the Chimera. The event was told in the Thrawn duology, and I'm also pretty sure Rukh killed the real Major Tierce...whose cloned body was flash-imprinted with Thrawn's tactical and strategic ability. Let me go back and add a spoiler heading even though those books have been out for awhile. There.

Trandoshan Jedi
27 January 2003, 01:11 PM
It's Ackbar

Jericho_Narcas
27 January 2003, 04:46 PM
I believe a disguised Imperial Guard took out Rukh before he could get off the Chimaera.

I gave my vote to Thrawn btw...

madpoet
27 January 2003, 10:29 PM
Thrawn.

He is by far the most adaptable of all the choices listed. Any tactician will tell you that you have to adapt or die.

coldskier0320
28 January 2003, 04:22 AM
Thanks guys, I kinda liked Rukh (he messed with ppl who were more powerful than him and didnt care hehehe) oh, well. And good going for him for erasing hat Tierce guy, ill have to read em, is that spectre of the past and vision of the future?

Grim Fantango
28 January 2003, 05:07 PM
Yes

Seghast
30 January 2003, 11:34 PM
Thrawn. I'd like to see Thrawn leading the Imperial Remnant against the Vong. Pity he can't do such a thing because of a slight case of death. :(

Much as I like Ackbar, at best, he is only two thirds of the genius Thrawn was.

Mhatt the Soldier
3 February 2003, 06:11 PM
Thrawn. No Question

Ackbar planned some pretty good traps, but none of them compared to Thrawn's.

Rouge8
3 February 2003, 07:10 PM
After Thrawn, Pelleaon and Ackbar are tied. They both respected each other's abilities. Pelleaon learned from Thrawn, and heck he's holding the Empire together.

Pel
5 February 2003, 09:40 PM
General Crix Madine.

Without a doubt the man was the all-seeing, all-dancing god of commando raids and dirty tricks.
He wouldn't have fought Thrawn, Pellaeon, or Lah; he'd have just assassinated them.

Adesh Gundeep
19 April 2003, 11:14 AM
I'd have to say Thrawn. Though I can't honestly say I know enough about any of them to really get in depth, I've heard enough about Thrawn to make him stand out on my list. ;)

Ardent
19 April 2003, 11:43 AM
Adar Tallon. Completely re-invented starfighter-scale combat when he taught at the Academy.

Although as far as applied tactics go, the nod probably goes to Thrawn.

Kanner Ra'an
19 April 2003, 12:00 PM
How good can Thrawn be when hes DEAD?

Wedge in Red2
19 April 2003, 02:45 PM
How good can Sun Tzu be? He's dead, yet widely recognised as one of the greatest real life military minds. Someone being dead is not necessarily a reflection of their tactical ability.

I think what you're probably trying to say is that Thrawn can't have been that great a tactician as he failed to foresee his death (and the Empires defeat) at Bilbringi (sp?). By the same logic, Julius Caeser wasn't much of a tactician as he failed to foresee his own death when he was betrayed by his own people. Just because someone failed to predict one (albeit crucial) event does not make them a bad tactician. No one gets 100% right.

Jon

Kanner Ra'an
19 April 2003, 03:06 PM
Ok, your right about my statement. I do mean forseeing his own death. Thrawns tactics, well effective, backfired in his face. Instead of earning the Noghri loyalty, he continued Vaders deception. Also he tried to control the Joruus C'baoth, which probably would have been a big problem if Mara Jade hadn't killed him. Thrawn made mistakes, and they were big one. In the end he lost. :thrawn:

Ardent
19 April 2003, 04:00 PM
Thrawn was done in by a threat to his direct person. Rukh isn't something you plan for tactically. When the attack comes, you either cope with it or you don't. Thrawn wasn't as strong a personal combatant as Rukh, and he lost. Not because of any tactical oversight, but because of Rukh simply overpowering him with speed and strength and technique. Thrawn had no chance to react.

wolverine
19 April 2003, 05:20 PM
That plus i think he had a major problem with pride. He thought his mind was infallable, and no one could out guess him, so when it did happen, he could not believe it was going on..

Although i would have loved to see what would have happened if Mara and the gang had NOT have killed Joruus of, and left him to thrawns tender mercies....

Kanner Ra'an
19 April 2003, 05:40 PM
Thrawn was done in by a threat to his direct person. Rukh isn't something you plan for tactically. When the attack comes, you either cope with it or you don't. Thrawn wasn't as strong a personal combatant as Rukh, and he lost. Not because of any tactical oversight, but because of Rukh simply overpowering him with speed and strength and technique. Thrawn had no chance to react.

Ya but why did Rukh do what he did. Because of the Grand Admirals deciet. He had to know eventually they would find out. Not only that, but if the Noghri decided to start causing trouble for the empire their would have to be a lot of communication between the various groups, and Thrawn failed to find out about it. Rukh was the concequense of a tactical error.

Rouge8
19 April 2003, 05:47 PM
It wasn't Thrawn's deceit. It was Vaders. Not to mention, it all clicked into place in his mind as Rukh stabbed in. In his death moments, it all fell together. He died with that knowledge, therefore making him one of the greatest tactitians ever.

Kanner Ra'an
19 April 2003, 06:10 PM
It wasn't Thrawn's deceit. It was Vaders. Not to mention, it all clicked into place in his mind as Rukh stabbed in. In his death moments, it all fell together. He died with that knowledge, therefore making him one of the greatest tactitians ever.

Yes it was Vaders deceit but Thrawn carried it on, i bet if he told the Noghri they would have pledged their alliance to him for that. I'm not saying he wasn't very good, hes just not the greatest.

Rouge8
19 April 2003, 06:16 PM
If he had told them, they would have struck against him and all of the other Imperials. Vader lent them to Thrawn as a gift.

Jim Williams
20 April 2003, 04:17 AM
i bet if he told the Noghri they would have pledged their alliance to him for that.

Tactically speaking, Thrawn had a decision to make regarding the Noghri. 1) Tell them and risk losing them or securing their loyalty via their gratitude. To a culture defined by its Code of Honor, being told of the Empire's deceit and abuse would not have endeared them to any part of the Empire. The odds are is that Thrawn would have immediately lost his best Spec Ops asset once they were "his" by telling them Vader and the Emperor used them.

2) Not use the Noghri due to the potential for them discovering the real reason behind their planet's troubles. Not an attractive option because again Thrawn loses a key asset.

3) Use the Noghri carefully for as long as possible. This is what a tactician does---uses all resources to maximum effectiveness after weighing risks. But no one can see all ends.

Darth Fury
20 April 2003, 06:04 AM
:thrawn: :emperor: :vader: :isard: :daala: :tarkin:

Darth Fury
20 April 2003, 06:11 AM
:yoda: :kenobi: :moncal: :leia: :wedge: :bothan:

Admiral_Atredies
20 April 2003, 08:28 AM
Well, It iisn't even a contest, 'cause Thrawn just kicks some real New Republic you-know-what. But, to make things fair, my second choice would definintely be Talon Karrde. Yeah, not a military man, but he works with what he's got, and is one ruthless man. My kind of Star Wars hero...:)

Kanner Ra'an
20 April 2003, 08:49 AM
Umm guys, the Noghri gave Leia their allegiance even thought it was her Father who tricked them in the first place. Thrawn telling them of Vaders would have really motivated them into killing/capturing the skywalkers.

Ardent
20 April 2003, 09:19 AM
An honor code doesn't work that way Kanner. The duplicity explicit in this sort of thing would demand an apology from the party responsible, which is exactly what Lady Vader gave the Noghri. When she refused to accept their fealty, their Honor Code demanded they continue to offer until she accepted.

Thrawn telling the Noghri that they had been deceived would have only lost him the service of the Noghri as they devoted their resources to tracking down a Vader.

It would have been a lose-lose for Thrawn. The Noghri would neither be his soldiers nor would they kill a Skywalker for him, so continuing Vader's scam was the best course of action. Leia's revelation angered the Noghri towards the Empire. Not Thrawn in particular. Rukh just chose to lash out at the Empire's greatest asset at the time.

Kanner Ra'an
20 April 2003, 03:45 PM
Thrawn telling the Noghri that they had been deceived would have only lost him the service of the Noghri as they devoted their resources to tracking down a Vader.

Which Thrawn could help with. After all Joruus C'baoth needed Thrawn to do it. I dont think it would hurt the Noghri relationship with the Empire at all. They would reconize Thrawn as the one who really helped them, not some scamming Vaders. That just my opinion though.

Darth_Cassed
20 April 2003, 04:49 PM
Thrawn! Thrawn! THRAWN!!! I just love Thrawn....studying the culture before encountering.....it's brilliant.

However I'd give 2nd to Palleon....I like him too....

Lucas Carr
21 April 2003, 06:13 PM
One word. Thrawn.

Iain Kysler, Jedi Apprentice
28 April 2003, 09:58 AM
Thrawn, hands down.

I mean, lets think about this:

Even after he dies, everybody his still scared to death of the Chiss. Quite a legacy for one man to leave behind...and though I sometimes don't admire his choice of sides, he was most definately smarter than Ackbar, Bel Iblis (though that's getting closer), Pelleaon, Most DEFINATELY smarter than Tsavong Lah...hell, he even planned for what would happen if his force was ambushed, and if everything went wrong. Now THAT's genius.

Ardent
28 April 2003, 11:14 AM
I must be insane not having just flat-out said Thrawn. ;) I think that Thrawn is the best applied tactician. I think there are others who are far more brilliant, but never really got the opportunity to apply their tactics like Thrawn did.

Talon Razor 'GM'
28 April 2003, 12:09 PM
Thrawn. As if there is any other choice.

Vong would be getting their butts kicked if he was still around...

Crymoon
28 April 2003, 11:03 PM
Thrawn

The best tactician is the one who can win against prevailing force...
He ain't an Amberite who suspects everyone and is always ready to face a challenger in one-on -one basis... His mind ticks in other dimensions... group movement... fleet logicistics..

He wound up dead.. as one man can't win in a long run.. he must have others that will be able to understand and not only follow orders.
And the main reason he had to lose was because he was a bad guy... the heroes have to win in the end... that way or the other...

starkiller210
11 May 2003, 03:44 PM
It's Thrawn hands down, he doesn't have to take weeks to study and know what he's up against, al he has to do is browse the good 'ole holonet and look at a piece of art!:raised:

Tossk
11 May 2003, 03:49 PM
I'm all for Thrawn, the best there is, and the Vong wouldn't be such a threat if he'd been there!:thrawn: :isd:

Dea-Ev Dacal
15 May 2003, 08:54 PM
Thrawn didn;t need a superweapon, or a huge imperial fleet (I guess the Katana fleet kinda qualifys) to cause the most trouble done by one brilliant tactician in that short of a time. He was also the first to fully utilize the ysalamiri to their potential. If it weren't for that unloyal noghri, he would've caused a lot more damage. Genius.
E.D.