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Frobi-Wan Kenobi
5 February 2003, 12:56 AM
Just got done with it and it was pretty good.

Remnant
Bastion has fallen, Pellaeon almost dies but with the help of Luke, Mara, Jacen & some Jedi are able to defeat the Yuuzhan Vong fleet after retreating twice. Pellaeon also has forced the Moff Council to accept to become part of the Galactic Alliance. Now Luke & Co. are off to the Unknown Regions to locate Zonama Sekot.

Galantos
The Yevethans are all dead. The Fia made a deal with the Yuuzhan Vong through the Peace Brigade to destroy the species in return for resources. But, Han, Leia, Jaina, Jag, Tahiri and half G.A. half Chiss Twin Suns Squadron basically ruined that whole deal and ended up saving the day when a Yuuzhan Vong taskforce showed up to take all of the Fia away as slaves. They also met up with a Ryn who is part of a galaxy spanning infonet that is just now willing to help the G.A. They are off to the edge of the galaxy to Bakura on a hunch.

Yuuzhan'tar (aka Coruscant)
Well Nom Anor is still alive and slumming it in the undercity. He has joined up with a group of Shamed Ones and by the end of the book is setting himself up for a rise to power using the new religion based on the Jeedai. Near the end he gives himself the new name: Yu'Shaa. Which means 'the Prophet,' which could shed a little light on the title of the second to last book in the NJO series entitled "The Final Prophecy."

I'd like to hear what others think of it.

The only real problem that I had was that Jaina was able to communicate with other ships while still in hyperspace - and I thought that you couldn't do that (like the trap that Admiral Trigit fell into in Wraith Squadron and couldn't get a message to his other ships.)

Also, I was very happy to see that the info on Galantos matched with the section in Coruscant & the Core Worlds.

Jedi Master Talon
5 February 2003, 10:24 AM
8o Where did you find the book I thought that wasn't suppose to come out for awhile. Thosethings that happen are amazing. I thought they would have found Zoma Segot. Taht would defeat the Vong real quickly. By the way didn't most of the Vong fleet get wiped out in the deep core in Destiny's Way Ackbar made that great plan.

Frobi-Wan Kenobi
5 February 2003, 11:24 AM
Well, the book was available at bookstores yesterday.

A Yuuzhan Vong Fleet was destroyed at Ebaq 9; however, that only accounted for a fraction of their forces. So that they didn't have a discretionary force that could have no other responsibility other than to seek and destroy the Galactic Alliance until their surprise attack on Bastion.

Also, Lord Hethrir's people - the Firrerreo - have become victims of Yuuzhan Vong genocide.

I think that Luke might not find the Rogue Planet until the third book in this trilogy.

powalsh
5 February 2003, 01:50 PM
All in all I liked the novel. It was well writen and had plenty of action. I liked that the Vong started sticking it to some more worlds. I think this is a real opportunity for the authors of the Star Wars Galaxy to thin the herd so to speak. Some of the past novels have left some pretty dangerous enemies just lurking about in ambiguity, and I am glad to see that these places are being dealt with one way or the other. Their are some pretty stupid species out there and I only hope that this newest seriesof books takes care of them once and for all. I mean do we really need more Gungan like species? I say good riddance! However on the other side of the coin it sucks that some of the cooler species have to take a hit, like the Barabels and the Firrerrero.
I really liked the Vong strategy in this book because I feel it realy opens the door for some fun roleplaying sessions. The Vong are basicly resuplying their depleted forces with slaves from all their captured worlds which provides GM's with a nearly limitless number of adventures and campains that can revolve around preventing future enslavement. In addition I am really glad to see the Empie getting their hands dirty. I look forward to future battles with The Empire and I cant wait to see a more detailed look at the Chiss empire in the next book.

Nova Spice
6 February 2003, 08:53 PM
Well I just finished the novel and I must say that it did a nice job of expanding the devastation of the war and creating a real sense of the longevity of the war. I'm still having a hard time believing that this war is three years old (in Star Wars terms) and Remnant did a fine job of making that reality more bearable.

On terms of the storyline, I think the thing that bugged me the most was Pellaeon commanding the Remnant fleets from the interior of a bacta tank. While certainly feasible, it painted a comical picture of a ninety year old man in nothing but underwear, floating in a tank of pink liquid, commanding a mighty space fleet. :D

The comm chatter while in hyperspace piqued my attention as well. I hope there is a plausible explanantion for this. Even if their is not, I suppose I can forgive that rather strange error.

All in all, the action was great and the character development was rich. I think we can all agree that this paperback certainly propelled the series forward!

P.S. Was anyone else a bit miffed that the Yevetha had been wiped out before they could even enter the war? I was really hoping to see some xenophobe on xenophobe warfare! :D

I give this book two thumbs up!

fury
7 February 2003, 06:27 AM
It seemed to me like this was the first time two real and true EU fans have written a Star Wars book. Sure, there have been a lot of writers who have done an exemplary technical job and have not tarnished the SW name (no, Anderson, that is NOT you).

I could almost see the two writers sitting in some cafe with a large pot of coffee going, "Alright, we've got to mention Katarn, if just for a moment." "Yeah, but let's incorporate those SD droids that people refuse to talk about because of the taint of Dark Empire." And then to remind us of the Katana fleet as well....

All in all, both a plot-moving book and a real fun read as far as I'm concerned.

And is anyone as curious as I am that Nom Anor might accidentally end up believing his own lies and become an actual pro-Jedi proponent? I know that's waaaaay out of there, but he's already make some compromises to his self-image to get where he is.

CaamasiJedi49
7 February 2003, 08:07 AM
Its possible, but he would have to keep his new name and change his appearance since everyone would know him if they saw his real name and what he really looked like. But that is what I think. Any other opinions?

Caamasi Jedi49

Vanger Chevane
8 February 2003, 07:06 AM
Nom Anor may just become a driving force to change the Yuuzhan Vong philosophy enough that it isn't absolutuely necessary to totally wipe them out.

Of course, there'll be diehard traditionalists like Tsavong Lah who'll take a lot of killing before the Yuuzhan Vong as a whole aren't such a threat that wiping out every last one is a viable option for the Honorable among the locals (Pellaeon, Antilles, and of course the Jedi).


With some philosophical change, the YV will still be a significant threat, but not at a level where anything goes to get rid of them.

CaamasiJedi49
8 February 2003, 08:39 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble my fellow holonetter, but Lah is dead. BUt the point is well taken.

Caamasi Jedi49

Dan Kyrinov
8 February 2003, 07:03 PM
Well, I finally picked up a copy at the good ole' Barnes and Noble. I enjoyed the book quite a bit, and found the mysterious messages and Ryn appearance to be rather fun to read. I have a wild theory: maybe the Rebel Alliance Wedge has been working on is this network? The whole thing is compartmentalized to avoid back-tracing, and wouldn't it be kinda funny if they've been so secretive these guys do not realize they were in part founded by the Solos?

I am also quite interested in the fate of Tahiri. She seems to be wrestling with the Riina Kwaad programming (for lack of better term.) Everyone wants to love her through stress attacks, but Jag Fel suspects there's something deeper and darker going on and maybe his showing the pendant to Jaina will help them all realize that he's right.

Jacen had a vision in Dark Tide that he thought would not come to pass, the vision of him freeing slaves. Anakin had a vision of Tahiri corrupted by "Vongfluence." and he thought he staved it off...

Armadious
8 February 2003, 10:07 PM
And now the cynic enters...

Err I mean, everyone here knows my general opinion of the NJO - Somewhat strangely it has changed over time, it has increased to a small degree. This is largely due to Rebel Dream and Star by Star (BTW this is the only book in the series that has raised my opinion of the author's writing capabilities.)

Anyway on to the comments of Force Heretic 1: Remnant.

Remnant rates a 56, a little higher then the midway point of SW books.
This is directly below Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter (61), Rebel Dawn (60), and Onslaught (57), and above Dark Journey (55), Conquest (54) and Shadows of the Empire (51).

There is obviously a definite plan as to where this trilogy is going, or there seems to be to me. There was quite a bit of research done in the writing of Remnant, from the quote at the beginning of the book to the references scattered throughout it. There are packed within its considerable (for a paperback) 413 pages a wealth of descriptions and ideas that provide a vivid description of the Galaxy and its inhabitants. These descriptions also provide a feeling of longevity to the conflict - 4 years is a long time to lose to anyone much less the same person or group of people.

There is much good in the book. Many good lines (My favorite is line is on pg 350 - Pellaeon is speaking to Vorrik - the Commander of the YV forces. The Empire - along with help from Luke and Co. - has just beaten back a YV attack force and rescued prisoners, the YV Commander Vorrik has just gotten done telling Pellaeon that they will be back and in greater numbers. Pellaeon says "... You may win the occasional battle against us Vorrik, but the Empire will always strike back..."

Anyway - Much good in the book, and an entertaining read.


But there must have been some of the Dark side there to deserve a 56.

There were some technical difficulties splattered about, many of them only things a strange person such as myself would notice. One of them was the Pride of Selonia, a recommissioned Lancer class frigate. Lancers don't carry fighters (Pride of Selonia has a squad of 'em... Against anything but fighters they are worthless, why would you send one of these when even a Neb-b would probably hold off YV better? But this is a minor error - easily overlooked or ignored.

Sadly I did not like the inclusion of various references to people and things that were ignored by the novels on purpose. My personal opinion is that the comic books should stay separate from the novels and the inclusion of characters and things from the comics detracts rather then adds to the story. So it was with dismay that the likes of the SD droid brains and Admiral Screed were included.

Some characters seemed to have reverted back to a state earlier in the NJO, and Kyp seemed to be changed totally. This was not hard to ignore for the most part and, since I am used to it from the Bantam era not really harmful. Except for the mere fact that, apparently with a victory in Destiny's Way, ALL the main characters have turned pathetically soft. I can see the Brain-washed-Jacen being this way, but others? Come-on people, the YV have only destroyed planets, killed half the galaxies population (not to mention Anakin, Chewbacca, Elegos etc) wiped out entire cultures and species. All of a sudden its "Let them stay in the Galaxy, and who cares what they have done" or "Lets go to peace with them." The idea is to contain the YV... Contain them where, 'Here's your half of the Galaxy, and there is ours? The absurdity of these ideas is enough to blow my mind away. I find myself agreeing with the Bothans for once... and if that's not scary I do not know what is (well I guess we could have Jar-Jar come and save the day, that would be more scary).

The language used and phrases used took a small amount of time to get used to. There were a few words that I just could not see the characters using, probably because they are not common in literature from the US - and that is where all the SW writers have come from so far. Not a bad thing, but perhaps it is something that should be used more selectively.

Now then, complaints on the plot. As has already been mentioned - 80 year old man, in bacta tank (in loincloth like thing) directing a battle = bad image for me. Next: I did not like Rogue Planet, but when I read it I knew that it would be used somehow in the NJO (I thought Vergree would be it, but no. Now I have to tolerate the further adventures of a giant walking drumstick, but also a flying planet). I do not like the idea of Zonama Sekot, and I will like it even less if it somehow does end up saving the galaxy. Then there are the glimmerings that somehow Anakin is coming back. First off I do not like Anakin's character, never have. Second, it is probably the best-done death in the entire EU, to waste that would be a crime, IMO.

I would recommend the book, simply because it is something different, something that the NJO has not had yet. Also I would be interested in seen the authors write more in the Star Wars Universe, but without the constraints that the NJO placed them in.

Wade Trenor
9 February 2003, 02:25 AM
I met Sean Williams at a convention in November, and he went into detail with a friend and I of the steps he and Shane Dix took in writing the trilogy (not to mention the troubles he had writing a Star Wars story and another series concurrently).

Making it simple - he had a lot of info to research, and thought 'Why not add in parts that I've learned?', which is why there are so many references. Also, the info they researched came from a compendium which isn't specific to novels, comics, or film, but the entire continuity.

Also, remember that they had little say over who lives or dies, how the battles are fought, or even how to start or end the novel (since that was based on the end of Destiny's Way' and the big-wigs at Lucas Books want to control the pace of the story).

I'm glad the story is getting such good reviews, and I know Mr. Williams had his fingers crossed, hoping that they would be well-received (he's the first Australian author to write for the NJO, and perhaps even any Star Wars novel).

Paul Klein
9 February 2003, 03:02 AM
Hey Armadious, I would kill to see you complete list of ranking for all the books.

How do you come up with the numbers? Is a 50 a completely average book?

If you could post it, I'd be most appreaciative!!

Armadious
9 February 2003, 10:05 AM
I will dig up my ratings post (it was my first so it is OLD - and look into posting a completly updated (for me) list so you can compare the two.

I think it is lost somewhere in the closed forums - I can't find it and I looked. I will probably end up E-mailing it to you, Paul.

I have head about the sources of information that Lucas Arts sends to its writers. I can see the pros and cons of the system, but it does frustrate me at times to see it used (I mean even Daala can be made to look like a good admiral in guide books).

Jim Williams
25 February 2003, 10:55 AM
I can't believe the Yevetha got punked out so badly. Thousands of thrustships destroyed? These are two species that just don't mix, and while the YV wouldn't shy from a fight, they'd have to know that tangling with the Yevetha, the original kamikaze-mentality species of the Star Wars universe, would have hurt them badly. Instead the death of their species is summed up in a paragraph.

There is no way, without dishonoring the concept of the Yevetha (whether one liked BFC or not), no freakin' way, the YV could take them after the pounding the NR and GA gave and had given the YV. Fighting thousands of thrustships would have resulted in a pyhhric victory so harshly won it would have broken the backs of the YV.

The Yevetha would have made a great galactic bad guy after the YV crisis because the galaxy's civilizations would have been so weakened. I guess some would have cried, "oh, another xenophobe species, ho hum, but Kube McDowell(?) did them first and didn't have to make them extra-galactic to make them so xenophobic and awful.

As a matter of fact, a lot of this YV concept has led me to believe all along that there is a heck of a lot more in common with the Yevetha and Yuuzhan Vong than just a propensity for Ys and Vs in their names.

Okay, the artery in my head just decided to burst and my pressure's coming back down...(whew)

I like the NJO, but between this and the "no dark side, it's all in your heart" madness, I get a tad irritated sometimes.

Kanner Ra'an
25 February 2003, 12:36 PM
I can't believe the Yevetha got punked out so badly. Thousands of thrustships destroyed? These are two species that just don't mix, and while the YV wouldn't shy from a fight, they'd have to know that tangling with the Yevetha, the original kamikaze-mentality species of the Star Wars universe, would have hurt them badly. Instead the death of their species is summed up in a paragraph. There is no way, without dishonoring the concept of the Yevetha (whether one liked BFC or not), no freakin' way, the YV could take them after the pounding the NR and GA gave and had given the YV. Fighting thousands of thrustships would have resulted in a pyhhric victory so harshly won it would have broken the backs of the YV.

If you think about it, its not that unlikly. Remember how well the new republic did in their first encounter with the vong. Same goes with the imperials. The Yevetha probably never new what hit them and had no idea how to counter vong Biotech. If i remember right, thrustships have only like 3 turbolasers, so it would be hard to overwhealm dovinbasels. Im not saying it wouldn't take a big fleet (probably from 300-500 ships) but its still reasonable.

powalsh
25 February 2003, 12:47 PM
I completly agree with you Kanner Ra'an. I think a lot of the YV success lies in their initial atack style. It is so alien and overwhelming that without the proper defense it is nearly impossible to defeat. I am glad to see that the YV are still pushing forward with their attack. I am really interested to see how far they over extend themselves before they are defeated. The more worlds they influence the harder it will be for the Bothans to complete their Genocide of the YV. I think the Bothans might end up getting destroyed if they are not carefull with their holy war. They are a hardy people who would eventully bounce back, but it wouldnt hurt to see them get their due for all the trouble they have caused over the years.

Jim Williams
25 February 2003, 01:35 PM
The thrustships had a high rate of fire and extreme manueverability for ships of their size. I don't discount that they would have lost, but when the tide turned against them, the Yevetha would have done the one thing no single other species has done yet. Those thrustships would have been ramming every Vong ship possible. Dovin basals are great for sucking up lasers and torps, but they can't stop rammers. And if they turn their efforts to speed or manuevers, then the proven deadly Yevethan turbolasers would have recommenced their destruction.

I also remember how well the Republic did versus the Yevetha. Not good. The Yevetha are one species where mounting losses wouldn't have broken them, it would have spurred them on instead of pancking them , which is what really finishes off Vong opponents.

Kanner Ra'an
25 February 2003, 02:15 PM
Its hard to say how the Vong could have defeated Yevetha since we dont know the details of the battle. The vong might have come in at a tight formation, overwealming thrustships before they could ram. And i think dovin basals can take on a ramming ship. If i am correct Kyp Durron tried to use the force to ram a frieghter into a big coralskipper and the thing managed to suck it up. The same might have happened to the Yevethan thrustships. I do think the yevetha should have been able to put up more resistance but we don't know what their capabilities were.


I think the Bothans might end up getting destroyed if they are not carefull with their holy war. They are a hardy people who would eventully bounce back, but it wouldnt hurt to see them get their due for all the trouble they have caused over the years.
i sure hope not Powalsh, could you imagine the complaining. "We were almost wiped out by the vong. woe is us" :bothan::D

Nova Spice
25 February 2003, 07:07 PM
i sure hope not Powalsh, could you imagine the complaining. "We were almost wiped out by the vong. woe is us"

Well even if the Bothans do almost get wiped out, at least Fey'lya is still dead. Can you imagine the whining he'd give to Leia? He would have something to match her Alderaan arguments! :bothan:

As far as the Yevethans go, to be honest, when Jaina found the xenophobes destroyed, I wasn't surprised at all. The simple fact that they intentionally isolated themselves from the outside galaxy meant that, more than likely, they hadn't even heard of an invasion. Can you imagine the initial shock when the Vong arrived!? I guarantee the Vong wiped out half their thrustships before they even knew what hit them!

And as Jim pointed out, the Yevethans probably went to suicide tactics as the Battle of N'zoth turned bad. I'm wondering if the Vong have encountered the Ssi-ruuk yet? It seems Han, Leia, Jaina, Jag, and company will be visiting Bakura in Refugee. Could the Vong have spread that far since Coruscant fell in Star by Star?

Another interesting topic of note is the wiping out of Firrerreo. I looked at a map of the galaxy and found that the world wasn't that far away from Endor. Could there be a possible "Second Battle of Endor" looming for the series finale?
:hansolo:

Kanner Ra'an
25 February 2003, 07:25 PM
A second battle of endor, interesting. Maybe Tossk's predictions of Vong terreforming ewoks will come true 8o

Dan Kyrinov
25 February 2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Nova Spice
As far as the Yevethans go, to be honest, when Jaina found the xenophobes destroyed, I wasn't surprised at all. The simple fact that they intentionally isolated themselves from the outside galaxy meant that, more than likely, they hadn't even heard of an invasion. Can you imagine the initial shock when the Vong arrived!? I guarantee the Vong wiped out half their thrustships before they even knew what hit them!

I'm pretty sure that the battle of Yevetha happened just prior to Ebaq 9, in fact, I am willing to bet Nas Choka was involved. Hutt Space was mush long before he got his promotion to Warmaster. That fleet had to go somewhere.

Shimrra: "Well done, Nas Choka. You have destroyed the forces of Hutt Space, enslaved Kubaz, Falleen, Rodians, and Duros, and you made a deal with the Fia that has allowed us to make a pre-emptive strike against a secretive speices with lots ships in the Koornacht Cluster. Tell the shapers to start grafting some warmaster armor implants, and invite your friends to the warmaster's initiation party!"

CaamasiJedi49
26 February 2003, 08:15 AM
Actually, the Firrerreo were living on rishi and the neighboring world, and Firrerreo the planet has wiped out for many years now( how many is beyond me at the moment). If you read cyrstal star (which I haven't, but i know this from the chronolgy book), you should find out more of what happens to the Firrerreo and what happened to the Firrerreo homeworld.

Caamasi Jedi49:plokoon:

Ardent
26 February 2003, 03:47 PM
Doot doot doo...I have to interject, because it's what I do best.


Originally posted by Armadious
There were some technical difficulties splattered about, many of them only things a strange person such as myself would notice. One of them was the Pride of Selonia, a recommissioned Lancer class frigate. Lancers don't carry fighters (Pride of Selonia has a squad of 'em... Against anything but fighters they are worthless, why would you send one of these when even a Neb-b would probably hold off YV better? But this is a minor error - easily overlooked or ignored.

Pride of Selonia is a re-commissioned Lancer, Armadious. Meaning, at some point, it was DE-commissioned. Now, knowing the New Republic, I don't believe for a second they mothballed the vessel. It probably suffered some fairly heavy modification to serve a in a non-frontline capacity. Far be it for me to speculate on the authors' intentions, but I suspect the Selonia is far removed from the Imperial Lancer as Wedge Antilles' Liberty was removed from the Imperial SD. Frankly, I thought the Lancer not having a starfighter compliment was the ship's biggest weakness when I was first introduced to it. I have a feeling someone like Admiral Ackbar or even Traest Kre'fey would be inclined to agree with me. ;)


Sadly I did not like the inclusion of various references to people and things that were ignored by the novels on purpose. My personal opinion is that the comic books should stay separate from the novels and the inclusion of characters and things from the comics detracts rather then adds to the story. So it was with dismay that the likes of the SD droid brains and Admiral Screed were included.

As far as I can tell, the authors tapped for this project were eager to bring the ENTIRE Star Wars EU into a new era. No matter how far-fetched the original concept had been, they worked the characters into serious, strongly-written and devised roles and made the EU feel cohesive for once. I applaud it.


Some characters seemed to have reverted back to a state earlier in the NJO, and Kyp seemed to be changed totally. This was not hard to ignore for the most part and, since I am used to it from the Bantam era not really harmful. Except for the mere fact that, apparently with a victory in Destiny's Way, ALL the main characters have turned pathetically soft.

Well, some of it is probably due to the complications in communication that come up when you have a dozen authors all writing novels at more or less the same time. ;) I let it slide. As far as the main characters going soft: I don't see it. Getting older, wiser and more cautious, absolutely. But there's still the brash and give-'em-hell attitude that made the Heroes of Yavin heroes there. It's just buried deeper.


I can see the Brain-washed-Jacen being this way, but others? Come-on people, the YV have only destroyed planets, killed half the galaxies population (not to mention Anakin, Chewbacca, Elegos etc) wiped out entire cultures and species. All of a sudden its "Let them stay in the Galaxy, and who cares what they have done" or "Lets go to peace with them." The idea is to contain the YV... Contain them where, 'Here's your half of the Galaxy, and there is ours? The absurdity of these ideas is enough to blow my mind away. I find myself agreeing with the Bothans for once... and if that's not scary I do not know what is (well I guess we could have Jar-Jar come and save the day, that would be more scary).

Well, it's an embracing of the true Jedi philosophy. If I crush a bug, I usually don't feel too guilty about it. But if I could feel it's pain, like a Jedi can, I might. I don't condone genocide of any sort, real or fictional, in any way. If the Alpha Red project had been carried out, I probably would have been disgusted with Star Wars for a long time. Months, even.


The language used and phrases used took a small amount of time to get used to. There were a few words that I just could not see the characters using, probably because they are not common in literature from the US - and that is where all the SW writers have come from so far. Not a bad thing, but perhaps it is something that should be used more selectively.

While Americans may be the biggest market for Star Wars, the fact remains that almost ALL the actors portraying Imperials were British. ;) I thought the language fairly appropriate, but then...I like big, obscure words.


Now then, complaints on the plot. As has already been mentioned - 80 year old man, in bacta tank (in loincloth like thing) directing a battle = bad image for me. Next: I did not like Rogue Planet, but when I read it I knew that it would be used somehow in the NJO (I thought Vergree would be it, but no. Now I have to tolerate the further adventures of a giant walking drumstick, but also a flying planet). I do not like the idea of Zonama Sekot, and I will like it even less if it somehow does end up saving the galaxy. Then there are the glimmerings that somehow Anakin is coming back. First off I do not like Anakin's character, never have. Second, it is probably the best-done death in the entire EU, to waste that would be a crime, IMO.

I'll admit, Pellaeon (who is actually more like 100 years old I think...he was like 68 at Endor) directing a battle from a bacta tank is a bit of a stretch. But Thrawn directed battles without ANY information and managed stunning successes, so I'll give the authors that. I think the point was to emphasize how loyal his soldiers are to the Grand Admiral.

As far as Zonama Sekot...well, my cousin grabbed Rogue Planet for me (I avoid that prequel detritus like the plague...no, but seriously, I'm not a big fan of the Rise of the Empire era stuff) and I read it while I was travelling...I finished the book thinking "Wow, that was a really fantastic story that somehow managed to squeeze acceptably into the Star Wars Universe." It more or less blew me away (although I still don't touch that RotE stuff) and I wasn't at all surprised when it came up in the NJO. I don't mind it at all, but I'm still struggling with Matthew Stover's Vergere. I'm not sure the "there is no Dark Side" thinking is the right thinking, but it's getting a little closer to the truth than the propaganda Yoda and Obi-Wan fed Luke (who then fed the same to the NJO, etc).

Wedge in Red2
5 March 2003, 12:06 AM
Hi guys,

As Ardent pointed out (in a post that has now been moved), this discussion then moved rapidly into a talk on the nature of the dark side of the Force, and does not really belong here. As such, I split that portion of the thread off and have moved it to the SWRPG Discussion forum.

The thread can now be found here (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11655) . Please continue your discussion, by all means.

Regards,

Jon

ElfWord
9 March 2003, 06:30 PM
I bought Remnant yesterday and finished it to day, so I thought I'd contribute my opinion on some of the stuff that has been brought up.

In my opinion, I think that it is a good thing that the authors have brought all of the EU into this new era. While I'm not a fan of all of the comics, games, and other EU material, I do think it is important that Star Wars be a united universe. Even if some of the material from the comics seems unreasonable originally, I think the novel authors are doing a good job of transforming everything into being taken seriously.

One thing that came as a big waker-upper to me was how long the war had been going on. I feel like the other novels kind of gave little notice to the larger picture of the galactic war. This one I felt really let us know the severity of species being wiped out, that the Vong were everywhere, and that galactic civilization was falling apart.

The communications break down I think plays a large part in the new ability of ships being able to communicate during hyperspace. It makes sense that if deepspace communication stations and planetary system stations are going down, ships would need to be able to communicate with each other to stay in contact with central command. Also, this isn't the first time such a technology has been mentioned. If you'll recall in the Hand of Thrawn Duology, Parck mentions that the Imperial library has a hyperspace communications homing beacon thingy in it that activates during hyperspace trips and broadcasts it's location to the Hand of Thrawn group.

As for the "softening" of characters, I believe that this is not only a character development issue, but a story-telling issue as well. Genocide has been a horrific and key issue in the Star Wars universe, especially within the NJO. I think that the horror and hatred toward the Yuuzhan Vong is caused in large amount by their willingness to wipe out entire species with no emotion or concern. While Kyp Durron and others might not want to lower themselves to the Yuuzhan Vong's level by commiting the same crimes, I have no doubt that the desire to avenge and fight the Vong remains. They are not becoming "soft", but are no longer as rash.

Zonoma Sekot is an interesting plot twist if nothing else. See my opinion in the Force Heretic thread by Nova Spice that I will be posting shorty.

That's all I have time for now, I might contribute more later.

Aaron B'Aviv
7 April 2003, 04:56 PM
Just finished Remnant. I enjoyed it. It wasn't the highlight of the NJO, but it was good. It had some nice touches, and I thought the main characters were consistently characterized.

As far as complaints that Kyp has changed, that's intentional and feasible. Kyp's gone through a lot- you can't expect him to be the same Kyp who destroyed Carida. And the war against the Vongies has changed him even more.

One point that I'm surprised nobody noticed is the fact that Luke and Co depart at the end with a very interesting destination- Yashuvhu.
The name sounded very familiar to me, so I did a quick search online to see if I could place it. Yashuvhu is an Unknown Regions world that was accidentally colonized by a Jedi master and his crew. The Yashuvhi people that became the dominant species on the world are almost all Force sensitive, and have their own Force tradition. Valara Saar, who appears in the Core Rulebook, is from Yashuvhu, I found out.

This is very interesting, in that a world created by Wizards of the Coast is becoming a part of the novel part of the EU. I think it's a positive trend, since I approve of all parts of the EU intertwining. I also wonder what Luke and the rest of his Jedi are going to think when they discover this world. It should make an interesting side quest en route to Zonama Sekot, and they'll probably add another crew member or two.

Dan Kyrinov
7 April 2003, 07:58 PM
Aaron B'Aviv, you deserve a +3 medal of damage reduction. That's good research, and interesting to know. Like Ardent said, the goal of this series is to make the entire universe cohesive. If they're dipping into WOTC (which I can believe, the quote in front of the first book is from WEG) then this is a terrific touch.

Good eye, good catch, Aaron!

wolverine
8 April 2003, 02:51 AM
What quote??

Armadious
8 April 2003, 05:13 PM
At the very begenning of the book there is a quote from the Imperial Sourcebook, it does not actualy say that that is where it is from but...