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Darth Fury
7 February 2003, 03:45 PM
I realize I'm going to be burnt alive for this but, I'm tired of all the down talking of Jar-Jar Binks!! Jar-Jar is a loyal, trustworthy, compassionate, And rather witty Friend to the other characters in the films. In many ways he reminds me of Kramer from Sienfeld . Yes He is always doing or saying things that cause turmoil or down right trouble. I do think that GL hammed up the slapstick a bit much but, in many ways he propelled the stories along. Providing Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon with a "backdoor" into Theed, He insures Anikin's win over Sebulba, his actions are the cause of the Gungans victory over the Trade Federation, he steps forward to assume Padme's place in the senate and let us not forget if "only Nixon could go to China." then surely only Jar-Jar could create the Imperial Army and Navy!!!! <b><i>SWEET!!!!!</b></i>

coldskier0320
7 February 2003, 06:08 PM
Ok, while i must agree w/ the overwhelming majority of SW fans out there and say that Jar Jar was a sickeningly annoying character and a damn lucky one to boot, i also must agree that he IS an important character in Episode 1, at least. After all, if you take the link that Jar Jar is out of the story, theres really noone else in the book/movie that can fill that role, with maybe the exception of Captian Tarpals (lol, for some reason i looovve that character, even though he IS annoying too, as are all gungans) so, yes i have to agree that, in the end, i suppose Jar Jar aint that bad:rolleyes:

dgswensen
7 February 2003, 08:21 PM
Well, I think he is that bad. If only for the reason that he could have been so much better.

In my mind, the "comedic sidekick" template, of which Jar Jar is an example, usually redeems himself by having one moment where he does well for himself -- kicks the bad guy's butt, rescues the hero, whatever. The rest of the time, he may be clumsy, idiotic, ineffective... but there is that one moment where he comes through.

Jar Jar has no such moment. He remains a none-too-bright, clumsy, screeching buffoon every moment he is on the screen. Any good he does, he does completely by accident -- increasingly preposterous, unlikely accident. I find it impossible to sympathize with such a character.

I think Jar Jar could have been a successful character. In some ways, I think he is very close to working, if they had just trimmed back the shrieky pidgin English and the Tex Avery slapstick routine. Just a little would have been enough. But they didn't, and I think despite the story elements set up for him, he fails miserably as a character.

Rogue Janson
8 February 2003, 04:52 AM
Not to mention that he's responsible for the Clone Wars.

madpoet
8 February 2003, 06:24 AM
Let's not forget that Jar Jar is partially resposible for the Emperor commiting countless atrocities during his reign. Had Jar Jar not put forward the motion to grant Palpatine more political power, (which Palpatine will not give up, instead declaring himself Emperor) Palpatine might have been unable to win his bid for power. In a sense, Jar Jar is one of the most disgusting villians the galaxy has ever known.

Bwahahahaha!!

Thinithil
8 February 2003, 08:20 PM
Let's also keep in mind that these movies, rooted in mythology and history as they are, are aimed at ten year olds. I was eleven when SW came out and my younger friends and brother all had the toys etc that are now the elder generation's collectibles. There are definitely humorous aspects in 4,5,and 6 that make me groan these days but I get to revisit my innocence when I watch them now and appreciate them all the more.

Jar Jar is that part which makes me groan. But my young niece adores hims as much as she does Amidala. And when I go to a theater filled with kids watching these movies and hear them laughing at Jar Jar's troubles- it takes me back and I'm glad George Lucas is still pleasing the younglings, not the negative oldsters who seem to be looking for the negative, instead of enjoying the positive.

What did Obi Wan warn? "You're focusing on the negative..."

etc etc

dgswensen
8 February 2003, 08:57 PM
Even the overly-cute Ewoks did some good that wasn't completely accidental. I think there's a big difference there.

Codym
9 February 2003, 04:01 AM
Jar Jar never really annoyed me that much, mostly due to the fact he was such an incredible digital creation, and the final battle had Jar Jar participating in so many homages to classic films that I couldn't wipe the smile off my face.

I think the reason most of Jar Jar's antics were accidental was to show an innocent out of his depth (he did spend most of the battle terrified out of his mind.) But even so, he did intentionally take out a couple of battle droids (and one destroyer) with the old droid torso attatched to the foot routine.:D

Still, George could have dropped the fart joke...

Pel
9 February 2003, 09:42 PM
Actually, Jar-Jar is Darth Sidious. Yup, the whole addle-brained fop routine is just a cover (as is framing Palpatine for that whole 'Rise of the Empire' thing).

"Yousa doin' good work, Annie! Meesa keepin' an eye on yousa!"

"Yousa failin' me for de last time, Captain Needa!"

"And now yousa witnessin' de firepower of thisin' fully armed an' operational battlestation. Yousa be firin' at will, Commander!"

"No, no Luke! Meesa your father!"

:D

Darth Fury
9 February 2003, 09:51 PM
HA!!
HA HAA!
STOP!!
THAT WAS SO FUNNY I.......:rolleyes: :p

Seghast
9 February 2003, 11:14 PM
Jar Jar makes me think of one of my all-time favorite flash cartoons...

The frog in a blender.

Chiefly, just because I want to see that happen to Jar Jar.

Yes, the character <i>could</i> have been good, but he wasn't. As dgswensen said, it was too much slapstick with Jar Jar. I wasn't amused by him in the slightest. If he had at least been a decent 50/50 mix of intelligence and goofiness, I probably would have liked him. Instead, he was 100% pure idiocy.

Ewoks annoy me, too, but that's just because of their "cutesy" look. Ewoks are a more primitive race than Gungans, and yet I think the dumbest of the Ewoks would have a higher IQ than Jar Jar. Certainly, he has to be less of a screw up, but only because it's just not possible to be <i>worse</i> than Jar Jar.

Jar Jar = proof of why young children should not be allowed to eat paint chips.

Silent
10 February 2003, 05:12 PM
Meh, the main beef I have with Jar Jar is his facial expression: that big dumd goofy look he gets on his face really rubs me the wrong way, but I don't think that there was any way the animators could have predicted that! Tone down his voice, and add in a bit more competance on the odd occasion and I would have liked him a whole lot more. Other than that he essentially filled in the role C-3PO did in the original movies, he just didn't have a good counter to his silliness, like R2. Oh well, he's still a fair character, so I'll let him off with the blender!

mojo1701
10 February 2003, 05:42 PM
Wow. The fact that a majority of Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar, is the same thing with fans of Star Trek who hate Wil Wheaton. It's scary.

Pel
10 February 2003, 07:12 PM
Well, both were inserted into the story to give the whole thing a broader audience appeal (aka younger audiences), which may have succeeded, but at the expense of alienating everyone over the age of 9 or so.

" *Sob* Meesa tink'in you no likin' Jar-Jar.. *Sob* " :(

:D B) :D :p

dgswensen
10 February 2003, 09:53 PM
I'm a Trek fan, too, and I have no problem with Wesley. He's kind of a dork, but at least he has a reason to exist as a character. And most important of all: he grows as a character. He goes from being a dippy punk kid to a Starfleet cadet. Jar Jar is the same dope in Episode II, just with less screen time.

Sorry to keep harping on that point -- it just sticks in my craw that such a basic storytelling point seems to escape ol' George.

Dr_Worm
11 February 2003, 12:42 PM
I thing Jar-Jar, and Gungans in general, are pretty cool. He was nowhere near as annoying as little Ani. That kid makes my skin crawl!

mojo1701
11 February 2003, 02:04 PM
I always thought Wesley Crusher was a tolerable character.

And Jar Jar? I find him tolerable, too. He was kinda like the prequel Chewie, if you get my drift.

Talonne Hauk
11 February 2003, 06:12 PM
Jar Jar had such amazing potential that it just surprises me that George didn't get it right. Sure, he was a buffoon, but he could have grown in Episode I to a level of respectability. We are talking about the being who had a major role in uniting his planets cultures. So what were his flaws? His voice. It took me two screenings to understand him. That's one screening too much. His pandering type of slapstick humor. People will continue to say that this was a character designed to appeal to juveniles, to attempt to broaden the audience. That justification bothers me. I was 5 years old when A New Hope was released, and I flat-out LOVED that movie. I can't find one instance where the characters ever tried to talk at my "level". George should have had more faith in his audience. Another flaw? His pride in his people being warriors, and then contrast that with his total ineptitude on the battlefield. He's a newly minted General, for crying out loud. Yet there's nothing to suggest even remotely any reason for his holding that rank. Now, his pivotal role in Episode II. That was great. Why couldn't we have seen 10 years of growth in him, though? When he first sees Obi-Wan and Anakin, he acts like a spastic puppy dog with a bladder problem. Yeesh. Grow up, Jar Jar.
But at least he was better than young Anakin. As has been said before, at least Jar Jar was animated.

Fole™
13 February 2003, 08:24 AM
You all miss something though. Not only was Jar Jar a plot device, he has other uses. Jr Jar is close to not only Ani, but also Amidala.


Sure kids love him, and the only reason you hate him is because you grew up, yeah i know, he annoys me too. But because of that I watch Episode 1 so much that i see that there is a method to his sillyness.



Like this, he is close to Amidala, so isn't it possible that he could be the one that delivers luke to Tatooine? I mean, Ben is there, but he has to whup the S**t out of Anakin. In the meanwhile, you cant have the son of a sith hanging around, ESPECIALLY if he is an infant. I think that it is VERY possible that jar jar takes luke to Tatooine.


Also, the slapstick aside, he is a real character, look deeper and you will see that he fears many things, we all do, he just voices it MUCH more loudly and annoyingly.


All i am saying is that if something annoys you, dont make assumptions on why he annoys you, look into him until you like him. just because he is a lot of slapstick doesnt mean that you should talk trash about him, cmon man... Your WAY to into it...

CorpBoy
13 February 2003, 09:08 AM
The only reason I don't care for Jar Jar is the fact that about 50% of the time I can't understand a word he's saying.

CorpBoy

Talonne Hauk
13 February 2003, 02:24 PM
If Jar Jar annoys me, I'm not making an assumption about why he annoys me. In fact, I laid down a few good REASONS, not assumptions, as to why he annoys me.
As to ASSUMING Jar Jar delivers Luke to Tatooine, I think it's a bad ASSUMPTION to make. Jar Jar didn't meet Owen and Beru, so why would he deliver Luke to them? Long time fans know that it's Obi-Wan who delivers Luke, anyway.
Don't get me wrong. I don't hate Jar Jar. I just think he's a character that could have been done so much better, that I wince every time he's onscreen. It's like when you disagree with a casting choice for a TV show or movie. The actor you may have had in mind could have done the job much better than the one you saw. That's how I feel.

Reel 2/Dialogue 2
1 March 2003, 01:03 PM
I just don't understand... AT ALL... what the big deal is to dump on Mr. Binks. To me, he's not just some merchandising ploy (in fact, those are just by-products that too many haters concentrate on when thinking of a flimsy excuse for an innocent character), he (like Anakin) represents the rampant anti-cynicism in the saga as a whole. There's absolutely nothing intrinsically pretentious about Jar Jar, and that is what makes him endearing to me. Too many films try to be "cool-for-cool's-sake" (coughMatrixcough), and they just end up as so much pretentious landfill, and too many teen-older audiences require cynicism up the ying-yang for a film to even barely register as "cool", which is why "dark" has suddenly become a buzz word, merely an end to a means. Jar Jar smashes that convention, and is pretty bold faced about it, which in turn, of course, has had reprecussions amongst those who require their daily "cool" quotient.

Simply put, Jar Jar is the Daffy Duck/Buster Keaton/Charlie Chaplin/Harold Lloyd of Star Wars (with a widdle Cosby thrown in, too). But then, I'm an animation nut too, so that partly figures as to why I find him a marvel.

(and remember, according to the screenplay, Jar Jar wasn't nearly as goofy until Ahmed Best got a hold of him with ad-libs galore, so if you're gonna complain about Binksy, PLEASE PLEASE PUH-LEEEZE at least get the source right, mmkuy?) :rolleyes:


Still, George could have dropped the fart joke...

Hmmm... ya got me there. (NO! Must... not... give... in! Ben... Burrt.... does.... good.... fart!!). LLClumsyJJ had his mouth open when that happened, though. Blech!


I'm a Trek fan, too, and I have no problem with Wesley. He's kind of a dork, but at least he has a reason to exist as a character. And most important of all: he grows as a character. He goes from being a dippy punk kid to a Starfleet cadet. Jar Jar is the same dope in Episode II, just with less screen time.

The vagabond-General-Senator doesn't get duped into starting the entire New Order?


Even the overly-cute Ewoks did some good that wasn't completely accidental. I think there's a big difference there.

Ech, there's NO WAY that all of those pratfalls Jar Jar undergoes could be simple accidental "clumsiness". I tells ya, it's the Force. A skewed version of the Clumsy Side, but the Force nonetheless.

(Check out page 98, issue 66 of the Star Wars Insider if ya don't believe me... thank yousa, Tony Moseley!)

Hate away, gentlebeings! (What? No Jar Jar smilie?? DOH!)

PS: Ewoks rule too! And maybe Hoojibs.

hisham
1 March 2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Reel 2/Dialogue 2
I tells ya, it's the Force. A skewed version of the Clumsy Side, but the Force nonetheless.

Hmmmm..... That's a real nifty idea. I think I'm gonna come up with a campaign that fleshes out this... this... this Clumsy Side of the Force!

LOL

Reel 2/Dialogue 2
1 March 2003, 05:59 PM
Hmmmm..... That's a real nifty idea. I think I'm gonna come up with a campaign that fleshes out this... this... this Clumsy Side of the Force!

Mesa got a bombad feeling about dissen... :gungan:

"No crit charts, NO CRIT CHARTS!"

ij thompson
1 March 2003, 11:21 PM
If you think Jar Jar was annoying in the Star Wars movies, wait'll you see what he was like before all that!

click here (http://starwars-rpg.net/elrood-sector/jar_jar.htm) to read my tale of woe... ;)

Vanger Chevane
3 March 2003, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by hisham


Hmmmm..... That's a real nifty idea. I think I'm gonna come up with a campaign that fleshes out this... this... this Clumsy Side of the Force!

LOL

I already pursued some of this joking with Dr_Worm this Weekend...

Jar-jar is actually a Dorkside Adept...one of the most successfully secretive sects of Force Users as Non-Dorksider knowledge of their existence would conclusively prove the The Living Force possesses a (rather Monty Pythonesque) Sense of Humor. The Dorkside Adept is similar to the Drunken Style of Martial Arts for intent & perception.

Unfortunately, in order to make it believable when it counts, being a Dorksider is much more of a total 24/7 lifestyle than Jedi/Sith/etc. Obviously a DA is on the Light end of the Force as Sith simply have no tolerance for a Dorksider's antics (or real sense of humor :P).

Dorksiders aren't very combat-oriented, preferring to use the situation & subtletly to get the job done...especially if someone else gets credited/blamed for it.



Some major Dorkside Abilities (was trying to enlist Worm & Terras' help in putting stats to this):


Harmless Impression: A Dorksider will behave (sometimes with some influence from the force) in such a way as opponents regard them as a totally harmless, inept buffoon. The Adept can use this ability to "bumble" their way out of a situation, or encourage someone they're with to pull them out of it without the Adept suffering much, if any, harm.

When discovered doing something/where they shouldn't be, the Adept can use this ability to appear totally innocent & harmless, avoiding any sort of punishment other than a lecture & ejection from the area.


Unconscious Action: The Dorksider can take an action that will eventually turn an important or crucial event in their favor. The effect will not come into play for some time, and the Dorksider will look like it's a complete accident if observed. Most observers will not even associate the "accident" with the subsequent change in events.

A Dorksider manipulating Computers, Shield Generator Controls, etc. looks very much like they've no idea what they're doing (even attempting to "fix" some sort of problem). Very little evidence of their true intent is left by any sort of record, and what does exist is obfuscated by the mess they leave behind.


Confusion: The Dorksider can tell some fabrication that is so engrossing and pseudo-logical that their audience will be thoroughly occupied trying to makes sense of it. The victim(s) will be distracted from something happening in the background that would quickly attract their notice, completly lose track of something they intended to do, or even miss the fact that some important item (like cardkeys to the Detention Block) have been lifted from their person for some time.

The Adept has to tell the tale, with their vocal mannerisms, movement, and behavior mesmerising the chosen audience (and sometimes passers-by). One common use of this skill is when confronted with dangerous opponents. The Adept can use the Confusion skill to make such a ruckus it not only keeps the opponents from attacking, but attracts all manner of attention unwanted by the aggressors.



Anyone else got skills/abilities for this? :P

mojo1701
3 March 2003, 05:27 PM
I got one:

Idiot's intuition - Once per adventure, the GM may offer the Dorksider some great insite that could prevent the failure of the
mission or a large amount of damage--if anyone ever took them seriously.