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Nova Spice
17 February 2003, 12:22 PM
After finishing Remnant, I was left with a few questions; the biggest of them being: "Why did they title the trilogy Force Heretic?"

So, who is this Force Heretic? Or is it even a person at all? What bearing will this person or thing have on the storyline? Will this bring about a quick end for the Vong or an even more grisly debacle for the Jedi Knights?

And with all those questions, there is yet one more......is Anakin Solo's destiny really finished? After reading Remnant, it seems that Anakin Solo may indeed still have a part to play as the series spirals toward its climax.

Some food for thought. ;)

Kanner Ra'an
17 February 2003, 12:29 PM
I thought it was going to be Jacen who was the Force Heretic. His unusual talents make him a logical choice. As for the end of the Vong. It seems Zonna Sekot holds the key. Why im still not sure, but they have been talking about it enough. And your completely right about Anakin still having a part to play.

cartographer
18 February 2003, 05:18 AM
I think Tahiri is the obvious choice for Force Heretic, but I wonder if Nom Anor's journey qualifies him as a Force Heretic in the eyes of the Vong.

Jim Williams
18 February 2003, 05:35 AM
I think Nom Anor is the Force Heretic and he will wind up with the leverage and ideology to lead some component of the Vong (probably the, ummm, what are they called---Forsaken/Abandoned?) to a settlement with the Republic. This will make it unnecessary for the Republic to fight a war of genocide against the Vong, BUT I predict there will be elements in the Vong, Jedi Order, and Republic that will balk at a negotiated settlement. Not to mention the Jedi will have to deal with Nom Anor, a ruthless opponent who has caused them a great deal of harm. This will be a case for an epic standard of Jedi objectivity.

Luke may well die fighting another Jedi (Kyp?) to secure this peace...

Pel
19 February 2003, 12:15 PM
I don't think Luke will die. There was too much uproar over Chewie's death. Nom Anor will (hopefully) get what he deserves. Mara or Jaina will probably see to that.
As to the Force Heretic, my money was on Jacen, but after reading the book, I'm leaned toward Tahiri (not sure what's going on with her).

Nova Spice
19 February 2003, 08:39 PM
Well my personal opinion is that Tahiri may well be this "Force Heretic." The question is, is this heretic a good thing for the Jedi and a bad for the Vong, or vice-versa?

And the strange feeling I received from Remnant is that Anakin Solo obviously still has a role to play for the conclusion of the NJO. Does it have anything to do with this "Force Heretic?"

So many questions....so few books left. :(

Perhaps another series after the NJO will be able to continue where this one leaves off?

Pel
20 February 2003, 08:23 AM
Perhaps another series after the NJO will be able to continue where this one leaves off?


I really hope not. Lucasarts and varied authors have had a few years to bring the NJO story to a close, although it does seem a bit rushed with only 2 or 3 books left in the series. In any case, there should be massive action and plot development in the next book.

Nova Spice
20 February 2003, 11:22 AM
I really hope not. Lucasarts and varied authors have had a few years to bring the NJO story to a close, although it does seem a bit rushed with only 2 or 3 books left in the series. In any case, there should be massive action and plot development in the next book.

Well there are actually four books left in the series, but that aside, I have to say that it's almost impossible for their not to be another series. The birth of Ben Skywalker practically assures that his adventures (as well as that of the Solo twins) will be chronicled in the future. The NJO was basically a concept that may well work for a prequel line of novels or a post-NJO series.

I think the NJO is just the beginning.....it's certainly revived Star Wars literature! :hansolo: :vader: :jango:

CaamasiJedi49
21 February 2003, 12:35 PM
I suggest you all read insider #66( if you haven't already). It goes into more depth about what Nova Spice said.

Caamasi Jedi49:plokoon:

Celebelen Khelekluin
21 February 2003, 02:58 PM
Never thought I'd say this...but since Traitor, I've been starting to like Nom Anor. Just his attitudes and such are interesting. As for the Heretic...DEFINATLY Tahiri...and don't expect Luke to die. In the newest Insider, it is said that Lucas himself said "No!" to that concept. But they keeps saying that the end of the NJO is going to surprise everyone....hmm....and with all the comments about Jacen being a leader from Mr. Grand Admiral...hmmm...who knows. Definatly interesting though. :lukejedi:

Kanner Ra'an
21 February 2003, 04:17 PM
I got to disagree with everone who said that Tahiri is the force heretic.
She hasnt exactly been a major character through most of the series. Besides what shes going through seems to have more to do with Anakins death then the will of the force. My moneys still on Jacen Solo.

:rguard: :katarn: :stormtpr:
(couldn't resist trying the new smiles)

wolverine
22 February 2003, 12:21 AM
Has anyone got a link to that insider?

Jedi Cahlwyn
22 February 2003, 04:48 PM
There is also the possibility that the Force Heretic will be someone we haven't seen yet. Or that it is a non-Jedi. I'm sure it will all make sense in the next novel.

From what I've heard, they will be focusing on the Clone Wars novels for the foreseeable future. www.jedinet.com/literature is where I go to find out the latest news and gossip.

I was thinking that Master Luke will finally retire and let the mantle of leadership fall on someone elses shoulders. Kyp has redeemed himself quite a bit in the last few novels and if not him I was thinking Jacen... but then I decided that Jacen was far too young to be the leader of the Jedi Order.

I really hope that they will continue with the Star Wars novels... I have no problem with any of the plotlines/story and really look forward to the next one. The NJO has shaken things up and each time I read the newest one I think, "Okay, who will die next?" something that I haven't done since the X-wing novels. It keeps it exciting since you don't know if a mission will fail or if Luke really will win that last fight.

Ardent
22 February 2003, 10:10 PM
Maybe I'm crazy, but I've read Rogue Planet (my cousin snagged it for me as a birthday gift...I usually avoid the prequel stuff like the plague)...my thoughts are that Zonoma Sekot is the Force Heretic.

From what I know about the planet, it seems to be Force-Sensitive and yet...not at all wrapped up in that. It doesn't seem to wallow in the moral issues most Force-users (is it a user? theoretically, it's a Force-giver because it's an entire planet...) do.

Yes Nova, I did finally scrape the money together to grab Remnant and I'm about halfway through.

Nova Spice
22 February 2003, 10:52 PM
Yes Nova, I did finally scrape the money together to grab Remnant and I'm about halfway through.

Good to hear! :D I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the novel when you're done! And that's an interesting theory on Zonama Sekot? Could the Force Heretic really be an it and not a who?

Another intriguing alternative arises.......

Cthulhuvong
26 February 2003, 04:42 PM
I totally agree with you, Ardent. I believe that the force heritic will be the planet Zanoma Sekot. I dont exactly know why, but i have a feeling it will be the force heritic

Tramp
1 March 2003, 02:31 PM
The Force Heritic is Nom Anor, without question. If you've been reading the stories, and if you've read FH1: Remnant, you'd see where I'm coming from. The Shamed ones have begun seeing the Jedi and the Force as their saviors. Lord Shimmra, viewing these beliefs as a threat to his power, has declared this as Heresy of the highest order. By Nom Anor declaring himself as the Phrophet of this new "religion" who will unite these Yuuzhan Vong believers, and spread these beliefs in the Force and the Jedi (even if it is for his own personal power) beyond to the greater Vong society thus spreading the Force Heresy. Therefore it is Nom Anor who is the Force Heretic.:kenobi:

ElfWord
9 March 2003, 06:54 PM
My possibilities for the Force Heretic:
1) Zonoma Sekot. This is my first choice, and I agree with Ardent on it. The support for this theory:
-It's a living planet.
-It was first instructed in the Force by the Potentium heresy.
-It is the planet that Vergere formed a bond with, the planet that she was on while it encountered the Yuuzhan Vong, and Vergere has quite obviously been something of a heretic herself.
-It falls outside the standard mold of force users. More so than any alien species, or even if a Yuuzhan Vong became a force user.
-It is a medium between what we consider common galactic civilization and the Yuuzhan Vong.

2) Callista. While not a likely choice, I refuse to give up my hope that she will have a part to play in the series and I grasp at any straws to offer my mind an almost implausible explanation for why she might be coming back in.

3) Jaina. She is the sword of the Jedi, and as cruel as it may sound, I think it would be great if the authors would rip away from her everything she has until she is nothing but finely honed steel. A grey Jedi, using Dark side powers without succumbing to the mindless anger and hatred it encourages.

4) Something or someone, that totally blows(meaning offers new possiblities) the whole concept of the Force. Some examples (not saying they're likely) would be an entenched Jedi, a Yuuzhan Vong, a droid, a Force spirit, or a genetically engineered creation.

Just some ideas to get you all thinking.

Apocalypse
10 March 2003, 11:13 AM
I'm gonna have to go with Nom Anor as well. A large portion of Remnat is all about Nom Anor and his dealings with the shamed ones and the heresey. And with Nom Anor now calling himself the Prophet, it fits pefectly. One third of the trilogy is done, and Nom Anor is going to try to lead an uprising of the shamed ones using a heresey based on the Jedi and the Force. If anyone is a force heretic, its clearly Nom Anor.

These other theories seem to be thinking along the line of a heretic on the Jedi side. Someone who would be a heretic from the Jedi point of view, instead of the Vong point of view. But this is just speculation, without anything really supporting it. Nom Anor is directly involved with something specifically called a heresey, which deals with the force.
:tieln:

wolverine
11 March 2003, 12:42 PM
Just to throw another option into the mix, what if it is Yen Nim. The female heritic shaper who is trying to fill the 8th cortex for Shimuur.
What if in her studies/experiments she finds out about the dreaded MIDICHLORIANS!!!! And comes to believe that she can manufacture them OR worse.. destroy them.....

Jim Williams
11 March 2003, 02:40 PM
That's terrifying on a lot of levels.

Iain Kysler, Jedi Apprentice
20 March 2003, 08:51 AM
I had a chance during a two-week vacation in Florida to catch up on the reading. Finally, after little over six months since first reading the entirety of the series, I'm finally caught up. Now I'm praying for May to come around so the next book will come out.

In my personal opinion, the Force Heretic won't be Tahiri. I think what we're seeing is a re-emergence of her Vong persona, Riina Kwaad. I think Anakin helped her maintain a balance against that occurance, and now that he's gone, her alternate persona may be re-emerging because she's letting it, because of the loss she felt when Anakin was killed.

No, Tahiri won't be the Force Heretic. A bit sick in the head for a while, but no.

Part of me thinks it might be Jacen, but I don't think so. Vergere taught him to embrace the Force, rather than abandon it like he did on Duro. Nope. Not him.

Somebody stated this before, and I think that Nom Anor might be the best candidate. He and his sect of Shamed Ones start believing in the Force, and become known as heretics against the Vong system of beliefs.

In other news, my personal PC just hit the rank of Jedi Master after taking a level in Redeemer...and one of my gamers' PCs was restarted. This brought up some interesting questions. She's an apprentice, and needed a master, and my character already has an apprentice (kind of a weird situation...I'll talk about it later...). Eventually, we settled on Kam Solusar, but I was wondering...what other Jedi are left? It seems the most powerful ones, or most of them, are off on the mission with Han and Leia, or are searching for Zonoma Sekot. Who does this leave?

The ones I've accounted for within the New Republic are as follows:

*-Have stats for

Jedi Master Kyp Durron*
Jedi Knight (or is he a Master yet?) Corran Horn*
Jedi Master Kam Solusar*
Jedi Master Tionne Solusar (Think she's a Master...)
Jedi Master Streen
Jedi Knight Alema Rar*
Jedi Knight Zekk*
Jedi Knight Tenel Ka* (In the Hapan Cluster, granted, but...)
Jedi Knight (?) Kenth Hamner
Jedi Master Cilghal*
Jedi Knight Octa Ramis
Jedi Master Tresina Lobi
Jedi Knight Lowbacca*
Jedi Knight Tesar Sebatyne*

The thing is, I got the impression that there were a hell of a lot more Jedi. This isn't counting the Apprentices, granted, but I'll list those too.

Apprentice Valin Horn
Apprentice Sannah

I know there are a TON of others, but that still leaves gaps. Somebody want to help me fill those in?

Also...if possible...anybody have any idea what the stats on Valin Horn and Octa Ramis are? I've been looking, but no success...yet.

Ardent
20 March 2003, 09:24 AM
Hold up a second Mr. Jumps Ahead Of Himself. You're skipping right over a lot of people and misrepresenting poor Kam.

Now we'll skip the Skywalker/Solos, because I want to. We'll also skip the ones who are known to be deceased as of Force Heretic.

Jedi Master Kyp Durron
Jedi Knight Corran Horn
Jedi Master Kam Solusar
Jedi Master Tionne Solusar
Jedi Master Streen
Jedi Knight Alema Rar
Jedi Knight Zekk
Jedi Knight Tenel Ka
Jedi Master Kenth Hamner
Jedi Master Cilghal
Jedi Knight Octa Ramis
Jedi Master Tresina Lobi
Jedi Knight Lowbacca
Jedi Knight Saba Sebatyne
Jedi Knight Kyle Katarn
Jedi Master Kirana Ti
Jedi Knight Tekli
Jedi Knight Daeshara'cor
(Jedi Knight Raynur Thul)
(Jedi Knight Welk)

I'm sure there are more I'm blanking on, but my register is only accurate up to Star by Star. I have updated statistics on a lot of these people, but only because I had to do statistics for them as part of my NRESB section, so you're just going to have to wait patiently. Unless your name is Nova Spice. In which case I think you're already employing them. Since that's how it seems to go with my stats and that Spice fellow.

As far as Kam Solusar goes...he's one of the most powerful Jedi in the NJO. Far and away, almost as powerful as Luke. Thing is, he's also old. Older than Luke, in fact. Older than Han, too, I think. So he chooses to teach young students instead of going and getting himself killed in some damn fool crusade. Remember, the Solusars were renowned for the caliber of instructor they made.

Iain Kysler, Jedi Apprentice
20 March 2003, 11:39 AM
What I meant, and what I perhaps didn't effetively communicate...

Was that I wanted a list of the Jedi within the borders of the New Republic, or in the space of allies of the New Republic (or should I say Galactic Alliance) who aren't dead or on the missions with Luke and Leia, and who are known to be definite Jedi Knights.

Daeshara'cor is dead. Died on Ithor. Kyle Katarn...whew. Tough one, especially since he's mentioned in PotJ sourcebook as having given up the Force because he feels he's too close to the Dark Side. Of course, that may be pre-Jedi Knight 2. Saba is off with Luke, Mara, Jacen, and Danni, and so is basically out of touch, and so is Tekli. Raynar Thul is dead, and Welk...well, he was dark, and helped Lomi Plo take the freighter. Assumption is that they died aboard the stolen freighter. I wanted the Jedi within reach of Kyp on Mon Calamari as of Force Heretic: Remnant.

And I'm NOT taking Kam out to the front lines. He's still teaching the 'kids' if you will at the academy, wherever it is. Thing is, couldn't he work with a student on an individual basis as time allows?

Nova Spice
20 March 2003, 02:54 PM
Okay, I have a Campaign Guide that I use for my NJO Campaign. On file I have stats for over forty Jedi. If you wants stats on Octa Ramis, PM me. However, I have sent in several submissions to Rigil that include many of the Jedi listed by my good friend Ardent; so I suppose you could wait and see if they appear on the Network in the near future.

Here's a concise and clear listing on all known (alive) Jedi during Force Heretic I: Remnant. This does not include those on the missions to Remnant space or those on the recruitment missions with Han and Leia.

Jedi:
Kyp Durron-Male Human Jedi Master
Kam Solusar-Male Human Jedi Master
Cilghal-Female Mon Calamari Jedi Master
Streen-Male Human Jedi Master
Tionne Solusar-Female Human Jedi Master
Kirana Ti-Female Human Jedi Master
Kenth Hamner-Male Human Jedi Master
Tresina Lobi-Female Chev Jedi Master
Corran Horn-Male Human Jedi Knight
Kyle Katarn-Male Human Jedi Knight
Madurrin-Female Anx Jedi Knight
Octa Ramis-Female Near Human Jedi Knight
Izal Waz-Male Arcona Jedi Knight
Tesar Sebatyne-Male Barabel Jedi Knight
Lowbacca-Male Wookiee Jedi Knight
Tenel Ka-Female Human Jedi Knight
Zekk-Male Human Jedi Knight
Raynar Thul-Male Human Jedi Knight (MIA)
Alema Rar-Female Twi'lek Jedi Knight
Tinian I'att-Female Human Jedi Knight
Markre Medjev-Male Devaronian Jedi Knight
Waxarn Kel-Male Human Jedi Knight
Tam-Azur Jamin-Male Duro Jedi Knight
Uldir Lochett-Male Human Force-Sensitive
Valin Horn-Male Human Jedi Student
Jysella Horn-Female Human Jedi Student
Sannah-Female Melodie Jedi Student
Ben Skywalker-Male Human Jedi Infant

Jedi On Missions:
Luke Skywalker-Male Human Jedi Master
Mara Jade Skywalker-Female Human Jedi Master
Jacen Solo-Male Human Jedi Knight
Saba Sebatyne-Female Barabel Jedi Knight
Tekli-Female Chadra-Fan Jedi Knight
Danni Quee-Female Human Force Sensitive
Leia Organa Solo-Female Human Force Sensitive
Jaina Solo-Female Human Jedi Knight
Tahiri Veila-Female Human Jedi Knight

Deceased Jedi:
Miko Reglia-Male Human Jedi Knight
Daeshara'cor-Female Twi'lek Jedi Knight
Wurth Skidder-Male Human Jedi Knight
Thrynni Vae-Female Human Jedi Student
Dorsk 82-Male Khommite Jedi Knight
Swilja Fenn-Female Twi'lek Jedi Knight
Ikrit-Male Kushiban Jedi Master
Kelbis Nu-Male Rodian Jedi Knight
Numa Rar-Female Twi'lek Jedi Knight
Lusa-Female Chironian Jedi Knight
Eelsya-Female Human Jedi Master
Daye-Azur Jamin-Male Duro Jedi Knight
Ulaha Kore-Female Bith Jedi Knight
Jovan Drark-Male Rodian Jedi Knight
Bela Hara-Female Barabel Jedi Knight
Krasov Hara-Female Barabel Jedi Knight
Eryl Besa-Female Human Jedi Knight
Anakin Solo-Male Human Jedi Knight
Ganner Rhysode-Male Human Jedi Knight
Vergere-Female Fosh Jedi Master

That's about as complete a list as I can give you. I hope you can find what you're looking for and if you're interested, I can send you stats on most of the ones that have yet to be published. ;)

Iain Kysler, Jedi Apprentice
20 March 2003, 08:25 PM
Wow...

...

...

...

I'm speechless...

...

(Iain looks dumbfounded...)

...

Okay...I'll be PMing you as soon as I'm done with this mission.