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Wedge in Red2
14 March 2003, 08:26 AM
Okay, that might sound like a dumb question, but this has been bugging me for a while now. Knowing the way my brain works, I'll probably reason it out for myself during this post...

You have two groups, the Republic and the Separatists. The Separatists were part of the Republic, then they decided they didn't want to be any more. So they left, announcing their secession (sp?). The Republic was unhappy about this, as they view themselves as a universal type body, which all are able to/should belong to.

So what's the fight over?

Are the Republic forces going to attempt to force the seceeded planets to rejoin? We all know the Republic becomes the Empire, but surely the senate would realise the violation of a planets freedom that this represents.

Or is it the Separatists who are the antagonists, trying to capture worlds that owe their allegiance to the Republic and,what, force them to leave the Republic? I guess that must be it. The Republic is only defending itself... apart from the fact that they made a preemptive strike at the Separatists on Geonosis.

Perhaps part of what is confusing me is Palpatines speal where he said "I'll be damned if I'm going to watch this Republic fall down around my ears" or words to that affect. Admittedly we know the manipulation going on behind the scenes, but that seems a really nieve thing for Palpy to say - how do you stop planets from exercising their free will to leave the Republic? Aside from talking to them nicely and trying to convince them to stay - which I guess is what Palpy was planning on doing before the wars broke out.

Any thoughts on the subject? I think I might have answered my own question, but I'm interested to hear others thoughts.

Jon

Rogue Janson
14 March 2003, 08:52 AM
I'd guess the Republic has strong rules against member worlds leaving, so the separatists use force to attempt to secede. The Republic forces are trying to prevent them from leaving.


We all know the Republic becomes the Empire, but surely the senate would realise the violation of a planets freedom that this represents.
I think it's important not to think of the Republic like we would a trans-national government on earth, where states maintain their sovereign rights. The Republic has sovereign rights over and above planets, making it more like a national government in this respect. Now imagine the situation if a part of a country tried to break away. In particular, looking at the make-up of the separatists - mainly corporate interests - imagine a particularly wealthy part of a country attempted to break away, for its own interests.
This sort of crisis would need mishandling to turn into war, but you can probably see how it could lead that way.

There are some other factors that you could imagine might aggravate the situation - maybe the separatists have violated rules and procedures, maybe they block routes to republic members, and things like that, but these are speculation and probably not very important causes anyway.

Rogue Janson
14 March 2003, 08:57 AM
I was trying to think of decent examples of this kind of civil war, with a reasonably democratic government, and there was an obvious one that I missed. Think about the American Civil War. (My knowledge on this is not great btw and I really don't know the immediate causes.) The southern states were trying to assert their autonomy from federal government, leading to war as the Unionists attempted to bring them back under central authority.

Faraer
14 March 2003, 09:18 AM
For thousands of years, the Republic has been synonymous with the civilized galaxy. In the last 80 years corruption and discontent have slowly built and in that time the commerce guilds have increased their private armies and influence so that much political power is in the hands of unaccountable corporate bodies. Hyperroutes are all but controlled by the Trade Federation.

When the secessions started two years before the Battle of Geonosis, the Republic didn't know what to do about them because they were unprecedented. The Senate concluded that it couldn't dispute their right to do so in principle.

The worlds that have seceded are a mix of purely selfish government enrichment, politically manipulated or coerced or militarily conquered governments, and idealists who honestly believe the Republic is finished. The war started when the military build-up on Geonosis was discovered that was so large it could only be targeted at the Republic itself. The Republic is fighting against corporate despotism and armed conquest, and to maintain the economic and cultural integrity of a whole that's being sabotaged.

Once you've reconquered a planet from Commerce Guild droids, though, you need to maintain some kind of presence to keep it, whatever its sector government (who may well be pawns of criminals or corporations) says. And within the Republic's offices and the transgalactic police force (the Judicial Department) there are proto-Imperial guys who just want to conquer everything and impose central human dictatorship over it.

On one hand, because the Republic no longer upholds its own ideals, its moral base in the war is almost as compromised as the Separatists'. On the other, the Republic had to fight if it wanted to continue to exist. More broadly, the war is just about destruction and control and the suffocation of principles in a conflict of drones vs drones.

Eryx
16 May 2003, 05:35 AM
It still feels like a brash move on the part of the seperatists. Afterall, the Republic has lasted for thousands of years.

How would the various seperatist worlds fight the Republic though? Would they have a plantary military or whould it be as a rebellion with small groups fighting a guerilla war?

Rogue Janson
16 May 2003, 06:48 AM
Now that's quite an easy question. Many members of the separatist group have significant armed forces - the trade federation has war freighters and droid armies, the geonosians (as we see) have built a massive droid army, and we'd assume the techno union have their own production facilities to make battle droids. At least someone in the movement must build ships (is Kuat part? I forget), giving them a navy.

So the separatists are prepared for a full scale conventional war, like the Battle on Geonosis.

Darth_Cassed
17 May 2003, 08:56 PM
The Geonosians were producing Battle and Super Battle Droids for the Confederacy, as well as the Intergalactic Banking Clan with the Hailfire Droids and the Techno Union had the dropships, and the Commerce Guild had the Homing Spider Droids and Dwarf Spider Droids.

I relate this all the the American Civil War. The south wanted to secede, but the north didn't wanna seperate, so they went to war and forced the south to join as punishment for losing and costing so many American lives. The Old Republic is forcing the Seperatists to give the worlds back if they lose. Of course that's taking it at face value, seeing as Palpatine plays both sides...

Reverend Strone
18 May 2003, 03:03 PM
I get the impression watching the film that the Geonosians are either contracted too, or a part of the Techno Union too. It sounds like the Techno Union representativeb Wat Tambor telling Nute Gunray, "with these new battle droids we've built for you, you'll have the finest army in the Galaxy".

From what I remember reading somewhere, Kuat was indeed a part of the Techno Union. JD Wiker wrote a fantastic piece on all the various Separatist elements for the WOTC websirte, but I can't for the life of me find the danged thing. Anyone else find it?

Rogue Janson
18 May 2003, 03:57 PM
&$%£@ing wizards website, it's impossible to find anything there. I can't find that article in the archive, or by searching.

Darth_Cassed
18 May 2003, 06:56 PM
pfffft I can't find it. There's so much stuff there!! So much irrelevant stuff I got in my search......in any case I'm not sure if the Confederacy had Kuat. I think the Techno Union rep said our new droids, not battle droids, so I think he was referring the the droids they made. Either that or he was referring to the Confederacy as a whole as building the new droids.

Eryx
19 May 2003, 04:30 AM
Can anyone give me some background or info (although at this stage I don't imagine there is much) on the Techno Union and the Banking Clan?

The Banking Clan sounds like a single galactic wide bank, not sure if thats right though. So if they were able to leave the Republic would that cripple the Republic's economy?

Not sure what the Techno Union is, although the representitive we see in EP2 looked heavily cyborged up.

Faraer
19 May 2003, 10:05 AM
Here's "Rise of the Empire" (http://www.wizards.com/starwars/article.asp?x=sw20020708dempire&c=rpg) and here's "Before the Rise" (http://www.wizards.com/starwars/article.asp?x=sw20020411crise&c=rpg).

Here's (http://www.starwars.com/databank/ep2.html) the starwars.com Databank for Episode II.

Kuat Drive Yards was alienated from the Trade Federation when its members on the board were assassinated in Cloak of Deception, so it now builds ships for the Republic via its subsidiary Rothana Heavy Engineering.

Corwin
19 May 2003, 02:16 PM
For background information on the events leading to the Clone Wars you should check out this site-

http://www.holonetnews.com/45/archives/

I just posted this in another thread, but since itís also relavent to this one Iíll add it here as well.

The Clone Wars were about more then just planets wanting to succeed from the established galactic government of the Republic. Many of the Separatist worlds provided vital resources to the Republic including food supplies. The economic effects of these worlds leaving the Republic would be catastrophic. This is exactly while Palpatine created the Separatist crisis. Only a threat that could destroy the Republic would force the Senate to give him the powers necessary to insitute
the New Order.

Reverend Strone
19 May 2003, 05:29 PM
Thanks Faraer, those were the very articles I was refering too, but couldn't find. All good info.

Nova Spice
19 May 2003, 07:45 PM
Kuat Drive Yards was alienated from the Trade Federation when its members on the board were assassinated in Cloak of Deception, so it now builds ships for the Republic via its subsidiary Rothana Heavy Engineering.

I didn't know that! Brilliant! I'm glad they're tying those sort of things together! So Rothana is a subsidiary of KDY; it makes sense seeing the Acclamators, but to be honest I never even put the two together.

Wow, for someone who pretends to know a lot about Star Wars lore, I sure missed that one. Geez, someone pull out the plywood and let her go! :D :P

starkiller210
20 May 2003, 11:23 AM
It looks to me that the seperatists started the war, the wanted to take power from the republic.

Rouge8
22 May 2003, 06:17 PM
Many planets are members of the Techno Union etc., but they aren't seperatist planets. The corporations then work through subsideries, leave the union, or what I think the BIG one is, they just don't help the confederacy.