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View Full Version : Force Heretic II: Refugee ('ere be Spoilers)



Nova Spice
28 April 2003, 05:33 PM
Just snatched my copy at Books-A-Million tonight! Looking forward to a good read. Page count looks good and the cast of characters is very interesting indeed! ;)

I hope to be done in a few days. And remember, if you post any spoiler material, place the appropriate warning signs. B)

TuskenJedi
28 April 2003, 06:14 PM
i know this may be a !!!!!SPOILER!!!!!, but why is the character list so interesting? have fun....gotta go to Borders soon and see if I can scavenge enough money to get it.....

Kanner Ra'an
28 April 2003, 06:18 PM
Grrrrr, I still have to wait until friday. Oh well, looks like its well worth my ten bucks.

Wedge in Red2
29 April 2003, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by Nova Spice
And remember, if you post any spoiler material, place the appropriate warning signs. B)

Good point, Nova. I was going to post an announcement to that affect, but I'm hoping I won't need too. Consider this your warning B).

Jon

Nova Spice
29 April 2003, 03:32 PM
Consider this your warning

Yes sir! Understood sir! :D

*Snaps to attention*

BTW, I'm almost done with the novel! It's been an interesting read thus far!

Wedge in Red2
30 April 2003, 03:38 AM
The warning was for everyone, Nova, not just you :D. I look forward to hearing about the novel.

Thanks, and at ease.

Jon

powalsh
30 April 2003, 05:41 AM
!SPOILER!..........!SPOILER!


























Well I finished the newest installment of the FH trilogy and I must say that I was dissapointed by the lack of carnage. I have read every book and I am a huge fan of the series, but it seems that the edge has really started to dull in the past few books. The death of Chewbacca set a presedent that no one was safe from the threat of death. Anakins death bolstered this notion and then nothing. Kill someone important for goodness sake. I mean it may just be me, but way to much time is spent chasing through Tahari's mind. She is going crazy because of a split personality and she had the chance to end it by absorbing the blast from the bomb. She did not and now she is in a coma. This is like a soap opera where people cant die they can only go into a coma. Secondly there was even less action in this book than the others. They had a real chance to put Leia &Han in a bad situation but, then they just ended it. I liked the plot twists, but also enjoy watching Han and Leia dish it out. The book had a lot of potential, but I feel it only scratched the surface. There is no real sense of a timeline, and the rest of the galaxy appears to be in a standstill. Wheres Lando? Ebaq 9 was huge and I dont see any changes.
All that being said. I did like the sections about NomAmor and his growing cult of Force Heretics. I love to hate this character and I look forward to his final act in the upcoming novels. I also enjoyed the description of Csilla, and I look forward to seeing more detailed boudaries of the ever expanding Chiss empire.

One question that I had is, are we to assume that the Remnant has willingly joined the GA as a full member? All in all I enjoyed the book, but It does not rank very high compared to the others in the series.

Kanner Ra'an
30 April 2003, 11:33 AM
One question that I had is, are we to assume that the Remnant has willingly joined the GA as a full member?

I think the remnant is a full member, but reconized as a different body. Like they still have their own leaders, military, etc. Thats just my assumption though.

Nova Spice
1 May 2003, 07:18 PM
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS!!!!!!!!








WARNING! SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!!!








WARNING!!!! SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!!!!





Okay, after finishing Force Heretic II: Refugee, I was left with several questions and thoughts.

The Good:
-I thought the inclusion of the Ssi-Ruuk into the war was interesting and was something sorely missing from the EU in general. Their sinister plot for Bakura was interesting and was quite brilliant IMO.
-The further revealing of Tahiri's dream opened up my eyes to what exactly is going on with her. In Remnant, I was left with a profound sense of "what the heck?"
-Finally, the Chiss homeworld of Csilla appears in the EU. It is the world's first appearance and makes for an interesting backdrop for future events now that Coruscant is gone.
-The continuing relationship of Jacen/Danni and Jaina/Jag was well developed in this novel. It wasn't concentrated and mushy; it was romance Star Wars style. ;)
-The cooperation of the Imperials with Luke, Jacen, and Mara was awesome. Lieutenant Stalgis looks to be a very interesting character and adds to the ever growing list of the "new" Imperials.
-This is the first time we see stormtroopers in action in the war; though they don't encounter the Vong, they do appear and work wholeheartedly with the Jedi exploration force in the Unknown Regions. Reminds me a bit of the clonetroopers helping the Jedi in Episode II.
-The Vong threat appears to have moved into the "left" portion of the galaxy, the "untouched" portion. It's nice to see that the Vong are moving toward their eventual goal, especially since they've been stalemated since Coruscant.
-The return of Malinza Thanas was unexpected truthfully, but was interesting nevertheless. It's cool to see her grown up, especially since she was just a baby in the Corellian Trilogy.
-The appearance (or discussion) of a character from the D20 RPG was a total shocker! Not only did Jacen and Mara mention Valara Saar, but they recounted her backstory as shown on WotC website! (Valara Saar is the name of the picture used to represent the Force Adept in the RCR).
-The Chiss finally appear to have become cooperative with the Galactic Alliance and it appears they may soon be forced to take a more active stance in the conflict, as the Yuuzhan Vong begin to attack their borders.
-Lastly, Jacen finally uncovered the secret of Zonama Sekot's ability to hide in this novel. Now, it looks like their quest may be accomplished.

The Bad:
-The overall absence of the Yuuzhan Vong was fairly strange IMO. Though Nom Anor played his part in the novel, as did Shimrra, the "heroes" failed to actually encounter the Yuuzhan Vong in this novel.
-The prime minister of Bakura, Cundertol, came across to me as a very undeveloped character. I felt deputy prime minister Blaine Harris was far more interesting than this guy. Although his fate was quite hilarious.
-The continuous plot twists had my mind on overdrive. The constant changing of allegiance by the P'w'eck was somewhat confusing and left me with a big question mark about their true intentions at the end.
-The appearance of Syal Antilles could've had a lot more potential. I half expected Saba to inform Syal about her brother Wedge, but it never happened. That bothered me; considering Syal seemed so worried about her son Jag, but failed to mention her brother Wedge, who's in the thick of danger.
-The assault by the Chiss assassins was too short. I wanted to see more lightsaber action besides a few deflected shots!
-Baron Soontir Fel was cool to see, but he came across as too willing to join the Galactic Alliance IMO. Maybe it was the stress of having his son on the front lines, but it seemed too rushed.
-In the Second Battle of Bakura, Jag was overwhelmed by the Ssi-Ruuk fighters too easily IMO, as were the rest of Twin Suns Squadron. I felt that the second best fighter squadron in the galaxy, who had been fighting the Vong for years, would be able to hold their own against "metal" ships. Guess I was wrong.

All in all, this novel was a good read and I look forward to the trilogy's conclusion in Force Heretic III: Reunion. :D

wolverine
2 May 2003, 02:43 AM
******SPOILERS**************



















**************SPOILERS***********************








OK you were warned.....

I loved the twists it had on the Pw'eks

I do agree with Nova, that Priminister Cundertol was underdeveloped, but i loved how he got his comeuppance in the end.
Tahiri to me, is almost going the way of Jean Grey with the phoneix/dark phoneix problem... Hope it resolves itself, and soon. Although i do agree she should have made a heroic sacrifice, rather than the force coma she is now in.
The Csilla homeworld was nice, but could have done with some more 'opening up'.
I also liked how Jacen was the 'key' to locating Zomna, but part of the praise should go to Danni quay.

Wey, jags little sister was, to me, a little too likable, almost like the writer was trying to put here up as an alternative for Danni to Jacen.

And the ending of the Ssi ruck dilema, was to me well planned out.

cartographer
2 May 2003, 04:43 AM
SPOLIER SPACE







SPOLIER SPACE





SPOLIER SPACE






SPOLIER SPACE (LAST WARNING)


Overall I enjoyed this book. I actually didn't mind the focus shifting from constant struggles with the Vong to activities related to the war effort.

I had 2 slight dissapointments with this one:

1) I was hoping the appearance by the Fel family would be a little more interesting. Maybe reveal a little more of Soontir's history since leaving Rogue Squadron.

2) I was also hoping for our first look at the Unknown Regions to be a bit more revelaing. I had pen and paper ready to make extensive notes as to the location of dozens of new worlds, and at best I'll add a few items to the "Guesses" page on my site (http://www.nav-computer.com).

The twists and turns were good. I knew something was up, but couldn't quite figure it all out.

Can't wait for the next one.

Jared Zuuhl
2 May 2003, 08:02 AM
I don't know if this belong here, but since most of you are ahead of me reading, what happened to Tenel Ka & Jacen?

Kanner Ra'an
2 May 2003, 08:37 AM
Yes, its here, its here:D . I got my copy yesterday. Im only on Pg 65 though. Seems OK so far, not great though.

Nova Spice
2 May 2003, 10:14 AM
I don't know if this belong here, but since most of you are ahead of me reading, what happened to Tenel Ka & Jacen?

Well Jared, I don't consider this spoiler material since what I'm about to tell you has been out for well over a year now.

When Anakin Solo died and Jacen was captured by the Vong, the surviving Jedi Knights, which included Tenel Ka, were scattered and forced to regroup in the Hapes Cluster. While on Hapes, Tenel Ka's mother, Teneniel Djo, was assassinated. Tenel became the new Queen Mother and has since, been ruling the Star Cluster and safeguarding the Hapes Consortium from further Vong assaults. When this occurred, everyone, including Tenel Ka and even Jaina Solo, believed Jacen to be dead.

When Jacen returned from captivity, he began his relationship with Danni Quee. With the war raging and people dying, strange things occur, and it's safe to say that Jacen and Tenel will probably just stay friends from now on. ;)

Wedge in Red2
2 May 2003, 02:43 PM
:rolleyes:

Alright, I guess it's better to over-spolier than under-spoiler, but perhaps you guys are going a bit overboard :).

Jon

Jared Zuuhl
2 May 2003, 05:28 PM
thxs nova! Now I knowhow much I have missed ;)

Tash Horn
3 May 2003, 07:27 PM
i thought the book was quite good, though i have to agree that they could have done more with the Unknown Regions, i thought that they were going to be visiting at lest a half a dozen or more before they found anything...i thought the developing of the Ryn underground...i think that Dorma(sp?) the Ryn that was with Han after Chewie died is the "leader" that Goure(sp) was talking about...they are the "new" Bothans only they aren't out for themselves.
I think that a combination of Tahiri and Nom Anors' group are the "Force Heritics" Tahiri bringing about the way the Vong can "feel" the Force, while Nom Anor brings about they belife system for the Vong...the last three books should be intersting

Iain Kysler, Jedi Apprentice
4 May 2003, 07:54 AM
SPOILER WARNING!!!





SPOILER WARNING!!!




SPOILER WARNING!!!




SPOILER WARNING!!! (FINAL!!!)




Okay. Now that that is out of the way...

I can understand why Soontir Fel is militating towards the Chiss joining the fight at this point. Where the enemy is weakest, concentrate your forces and make the decisive strike then and there. From a military perspective, Fel is trying to end the war as quickly as possible. I also think that Tahiri is going to be a very interesting plotline to watch...especially if the group doesn't leave Bakura for a while...but these activities might imply an alliance between the Ssi-Ruuk and the Vong...although I LOVE the idea of the P'w'eck rebellion. That was a great twist. Might be interesting to see what happens when the Vong get enteched...har har har...

Well, we now have another Ssi-Ruuvi war on our hands...along with the Vong...anybody care to hazard a guess where my PCs are going?

Also, ASAP, somebody with some time ought to come up with the V'Sett-class fighters that the Ssi-Ruuk were flying. They looked awesome.

As to Jag's being worn down that quickly, part of me remembers reading the Truce at Bakura and seeing what kinds of strategy the Ssi-Ruuk were capable of...and maybe that had something to do with it...that and...oh...over one hundred enemy fighters outnumbering the eleven (no, ten...Jaina wasn't flying) fighters of Twin Suns...now, the question becomes what happens to the members of Twin Suns? At last count, they're now a half-squadron.

I thought Lwothirr was a good character. I'd like to see more of him, just to get a feel for what's going on in the Imperium.

That stormie lieutenant, Stalgiss, was an awesome character too. Gotta see more of him...he and Captain Yage.

I liked seeing Wyn, who so OBVIOUSLY had a crush on Jacen. Thought that was funny. And the look at Csilla was great.

Can't wait till the Vong make the mistake of hitting the Chiss. Oh, that will Soooooo be it for the Vong.

Wait a second...lemme check something...yes! Shimmra ordered Karsh to attack the Chiss...oh...me oh my! This is gonna be good...only bad part is...

NEXT ONE COMES OUT IN JULY!!!! ARGH!!!! Wait a second...July is my birthday month...oh dearest family...LOL

Nova Spice
4 May 2003, 09:55 AM
SPOILERS!!!!!


SPOILERS!




SPOILERS MATEY!!!!




BIG TIME SPOILERS DUDE!





YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE!



Ok, I figured I would do a brief rundown of what we know is coming up.
Iain pointed out that Karsh is preparing to assault the Chiss. Here's what we know about the Vong's upcoming war plan:

-Nas Choka: former supreme commander and newly appointed warmaster. Responsible for the conquest of the remaining quadrant of the galaxy.
-B'sheth Vorrik: supreme commander responsible for protecting the original invasion corridor. Now is engaged with the Imperial Remnant.*
-Hrekin Karsh: supreme commander responsible for the conquest of Chiss space. Rearguard against the Imperial Remnant.
-Qurang Lah: commander who led the invasion of Yag'Dhul. Whereabouts and current orders unknown.
-Malik Carr: commander who conquered Ord Mantell. Whereabouts and current orders unknown.
*I know how to spell his real name, but I had to substitute an "e" in for where an "i" should be. The Holonet protocol takes no chances for curse words to appear. I never even noticed that the word was in his name! :D


These four are the only four "top" fleet leaders I can remember that are still alive. If anyone can remember any others, that'd be cool. Below is a list of known leaders who are dead:

-Tsavong Lah: former warmaster who led the conquest of the Core and Coruscant. Died at the hands of Jaina Solo on Ebaq IX.
-Shedao Shai: former supreme commander who led the conquest of the "invasion corridor." Died at the hands of Corran Horn on Ithor.
-Deign Lian: former commander who took control of the Battle of Ithor. Died aboard the Legacy of Torment at Ithor.
-Chine-kal: former commander of the yammosk clustership Creche. Died at the Battle of Fondor.
-Komm Karsh: former supreme commander in charge of safeguarding the Mid Rim and Expansion Region from the scattered New Republic. Killed at the Second Battle of Obroa-skai.

There are undoubtedly other fleet commanders I may not remember that have died or are still alive. These are the major ones I think. ;)

Should be interesting to see what the Vong's plans are as the series moves toward its explosive finale!

Kanner Ra'an
5 May 2003, 09:15 AM
SPOILER





TURN BACK NOW





YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE





Ok finished most of it today and im dissapointed. Im still scratching my head over the P'w'eck. And are the Ssi ruuvi now trying to concour the ohterside of the galaxy,or just Bakura. I would like to see the vong and Fluties fight each other. And the other group, Skywalker and Jacen and Mara have to be the most powerful jedi in the galaxy And their playing librarian!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Nothing really happened in the book. Hell their was 1 battle in the entire book.

Master Tryka
6 May 2003, 10:33 AM
I just finished the novel, liked it for the omst part, but one thing struck me. Where's Kyp, and since hes around somewhere, why can't we give him a call and have him come over and fix Tahiri like he fixed Qwi Xux? It may be treading close to the dark path, yes, (and i realize the authors have something bigger planned for her) but why would this not dawn on Han or something. Other wise, yeah I liked the book for the most part, but the Kyp thing occured to me after reading.

Just food for thought.

Talon Razor 'GM'
6 May 2003, 11:51 AM
All right, I finished it and there was many interesting things I want to point out in this book. Overall, this was one of the most interesting NJO books.

Spoilers Ahead!










Look, I meant it!










Just keep coming, don't ya?









Ok, but you where warned!






It's too late! You coulda turned away but nooooo......


Ok, first off, some obersvations:

- They are setting up Wyn Fel as a new main character in the distant future. I saw that right away. She's gonna be playing a major role, that's for sure.
- Chiss rocked. They did a great job and I looooovvvveeeed the description of their homeworld and everything. This book was PACKED with EU stuff and explored two species that have mostly been overlooked, Chiss and Ssi'ruuk. It was intertesting hearing about the Chiss and their traditions. And the part where they come across the books was downright funny!
- Ssi'ruuk. This was just great. The whole P'w'eck thing was great. We got so much Ssi'ruuvi info from the book. I can't wait to see the Ssi'ruuk and Vong duke it out. Should be great!
- I was thinking, anyone notice how complex these relationships are getting? If Jaina marries Jag, that will make Sonntir Fel her father-in-law. What would that make Luke and Sonntir Fel? And think about it! Wedge and Luke would then be related! So that means when Jacen and Wyn were talking, he was talking to his future....what?

The book was also written way better. The way the author tied in each chapter was well done. Overall, thumbs up! I'll get a more in-depth review up later.

And Note: Did you see how man new vessels there where?? Woot! My players are gonna hafta fight the Ssi'ruuk now!

Kanner Ra'an
6 May 2003, 12:10 PM
Spoilers








I mean it





Turn around








Ya sure






Last chance










Ok i lied, but this is your last chance












- I was thinking, anyone notice how complex these relationships are getting? If Jaina marries Jag, that will make Sonntir Fel her father-in-law. What would that make Luke and Sonntir Fel? And think about it! Wedge and Luke would then be related! So that means when Jacen and Wyn were talking, he was talking to his future....what?

Ummmm, Luke and Soontir Fel would be...a.... related.:D . And on a side note. Wouldn't it be ironic if Jaina and Jag had a kid who got space sick.
Anyways i have reread the book and i now understand it. The one problem i have now is their making Jacen into a kind of pacifist. My impression through the series is that in combat he is on par, if not greater then his siblings. However they are once again making him a less potent character. And i still hate the fact that powerful jedi are reading books! :mad:

Nova Spice
6 May 2003, 12:29 PM
Where's Kyp, and since hes around somewhere, why can't we give him a call and have him come over and fix Tahiri like he fixed Qwi Xux?

First off, Kyp has actively taken command of the Jedi under the Galactic Alliance while Luke took off to the Unknown Regions. Now as far as "fixing" Tahiri, there are two reasons why that's not plausible and would be senseless IMO:

-First, the entire NJO series has been about change and if a character has truly evolved, it's been Kyp Durron. Kyp's not walking down that dark path anymore and he would never agree to volunteer to take that journey once again.
-Second, who says even if Kyp tried to "fix" Tahiri, he could? She has a Vong personality in her, and the only Jedi capable of even sensing the Vong is Jacen Solo. Kyp's Force powers would more than likely be ineffectual on Tahiri.


The one problem i have now is their making Jacen into a kind of pacifist. My impression through the series is that in combat he is on par, if not greater then his siblings. However they are once again making him a less potent character. And i still hate the fact that powerful jedi are reading books!

Totally disagree with you here Kanner! In both books of the Force Heretic trilogy, Jacen has fought when fighting was a necessity. In Remnant, he boldly commanded the Bonecrusher Braxant behind Vong lines. In Refugee, he battled the Krizlaws and pursued Wyn's kidnappers, with success in both areas. Jacen hasn't become pacifistic again; there's just been no chance for him to square off against the Vong like he did in Destiny's Way.

Now as far as his combat prowess, I don't think he ever was on par with Anakin, he all but admitted it in Traitor. He is however, the obvious next leader of the new Jedi after the old Order passes (Luke, Kyp, Kam, etc.).

I don't think he's less potent either. In fact, it seems to me that in both the Force Heretic books, the authors have intentionally and almost quietly begun building him up for what we know will be the ultimate showdown in the Unifying Force.

And I agree that perhaps reading books doesn't seem "Jedi" like, but there are times and places for things. Tionne and Cilghal read books, why can't Luke and Mara when they're searching for a hopeful end to the war?

That's my two cents!

Kanner Ra'an
6 May 2003, 12:57 PM
Looking back i guess your right. I guess the recent situation hasn't opened many oppertunities to go hand to hand with the Vong. I do still beleve that Jacen is stronger then his siblings, i know things hev changed since then but look at Vector prime. Jacen easily defeated anakin in their duel, i think in the end his natural talents make up for his lack of dedication but whatever. My other statment, the one about jedi reading books, was missunderstood. My problem is that the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy isn't in the front lines, saving lives, where he would be most valuble, but rather leaving to find Zonama Sekot on the slim chance it might help the war effort. Couldn't the GA just send a small team to do this. Of course we know that it holds the key to the war, but do they?

Nova Spice
6 May 2003, 04:24 PM
Couldn't the GA just send a small team to do this. Of course we know that it holds the key to the war, but do they?

Ah, okay, I understand where you're coming from now. You have a good point and I at first thought the same thing. I came to realize a few things though, and here's what became clear to me. Hopefully this will clarify some things for you too:

-Jacen obviously felt Vergere, a Jedi of such mystique and confusion, held Zonama Sekot in high regard. If Vergere was serious enough to consider Sekot a possible answer to the Vong, then I'm sure Jacen felt it was worth looking into.
-In Remnant, its obvious that both Luke and Jacen have an "instinctive" feeling that Zonama Sekot is important and thus this might explain your question about them knowing it holds the answer. Personally, I don't think they "know" if the rogue planet is the key, but I think they "believe" it is, if you know what I mean.
-Any other team would probably falter in its quest. Jacen, having intimate first-hand knowledge from Vergere of the rogue planet, would be the most obvious candidate. Sending Luke and Mara may have been overkill initially, but no one else in the galaxy commands respect and attention like Luke Skywalker. And since part of the mission was attempting to bring in both the Remnant and the Chiss, Luke was an obvious choice as well.
-Having three of the most powerful Jedi on a planet hunt during such a crisis bothered me, but with these explanations and the fact that on the front lines we still have: Kyp, Corran, Kenth, Cilghal, Tresina, Alema, Zekk, Lowbacca, Tesar, and many others, I feel that the Jedi have things covered while everyone else is away.

I hope that helps some Kanner.

P.S. Has anyone else given thought to the fate of Raynar Thul. I wonder if he's still alive or if he is, what's become of him? Also, I wonder what has become of the still MIA Jedi: Octa Ramis, Tam Azur-Jamin, and Kyle Katarn? There's still a lot of territory to cover in the final three books. Although I am beginning to see the endgame at the end of the tunnel! :D

Kanner Ra'an
6 May 2003, 04:56 PM
I do beleve that the GA considers Raynar dead. I think it was stated in the knighting cerimony in destinys way. Of course people have risen from the dead before. On the other Jedi i have no idea. Although i hope Katarn isn't dead, wouldn't it be cool to have a Dark Forces game set in the NJO era.

Ardent
7 May 2003, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by Kanner Ra'an
I do beleve that the GA considers Raynar dead. I think it was stated in the knighting cerimony in destinys way. Of course people have risen from the dead before. On the other Jedi i have no idea. Although i hope Katarn isn't dead, wouldn't it be cool to have a Dark Forces game set in the NJO era.

JK3 is slated for late-NR era, well into the time period where the Academy is established and training new Jedi Knights, which I believe sits it smack dab at the beginning of the Yuuzhan Vong invasion (Solos were 16 when the invasion began, and the Young Jedi Knights series covers the height of the Jedi Academy and there's about two years worth of material there). So assuming there's a JK4 in the works, it will likely be in the NJO era. ;)

My impressions of Refugee are fractured right now. I've always loved the Soontir Fel character, but I'm not terribly appreciative of his representation in the novel. Fel is on good terms with the Solos...he still considers Han a good friend...why would he treat members of his family so coldly? I understand his dislike for Mara and I guess I can understand the dislike of Luke as well...but the Baron has previously been a wise and knowledgable man, more than willing to approach even tense diplomatic situations civilly and professionally. He had a real rough edge in Refugee and I have reservations about that representation.

As far as relationships: Luke and Soontir would be in-laws. Jacen would be Wyn's brother-in-law.

As far as the Imperials go, I am duly impressed by Lieutenant Stalgis. Creating a deep and believable minor Imperial officer was something new to Star Wars, and I think Stalgis is an admirable result. Everything about the guy screamed potential and he really, really improved my opinion of Imperial officers in general (FYI he's not a stormtrooper. He's a naval command officer, serving under Yage -- he probably wears naval trooper armor).

Dalla Madine
7 May 2003, 01:07 PM
The stuff w/Jacen and Tenel Ka and their relationship and how it ended made me think.....And it hit me that I had wrote a fan fic. 2-2 1/2 years ago that said Tenel Ka's mother would die and she would become Queen mother!!! FREAKY!!!! ok....sorry just had to get that out! ;)

-Dalla Madine- :daala:

ElfWord
7 May 2003, 03:57 PM
SPOILERS, DUH!




SOLOS AND STARFIGHTERS AND SPOILERS, OH MY!




LOOK OUT! NAKED MEN AHEAD!




JUST KIDDING, BUT WATCH OUT FOR SPOILERS!




I WARNED YOU!


My impression of the book was partially negative. The Solo story arc felt too much like a Truce at Bakura, part 2. While the plot twists were interesting and it leaves interesting repercussions yet to be examined, I felt it took too much attention away from the war. Learning more about the Chiss was good, but I agree with others that Fel was represented as too harsh. Wyn's reaction to Jacen contributes to his obvious charisma, and I think this will be an interesting contrast to the more mature Wyn we will see in later novels. The development of the romance between Jacen and Danni reminded me of Han and Leia during the movies, I thought it was great! The Ryn underground is becoming really interesting.
My main dislike is that we learn little-to-nothing about the progress of the war. I hope this is remedied in the next book, I don't want us to return to the war to a "6 months later...." kind of summary. I'd like to see a story arc that does not involve the Solo or Skywalker families.
Some people have made comments about Jacen seemingly becoming less powerful, I would compare him to Luke. Even though Luke is most often very philosophical and more of a leader or mediator, we've seen him rescue Jacen with two lightsabers, and blow fighters out of the sky. Just because Jacen isn't often using his amazing power doesn't mean it isn't there.

Nova Spice
7 May 2003, 07:47 PM
Just because Jacen isn't often using his amazing power doesn't mean it isn't there.

Hear, hear Elfword! Well said!


SPOILERS!




SPOILERS!



GOING ONCE! GOING TWICE! SOLD TO THE SPOILEE IN FRONT!








About the progress of the war, I agree that Reunion should provide some insight into the current status of the Galactic Alliance and Yuuzhan Vong. Although Refugee at least hinted at things as mentioned in previous posts: (Vong agent impersonating the Ssi-ruuvi general, the hints provided by Goure about the Ryn Info Network, the quips from Shimrra to Karsh about the next target, and the mentioning of Vong movements into Chiss space).

I think Reunion will provide a huge leap back into the thick of things! It should be interesting to see how things playout in the final three books. :D

Jedicrono
7 May 2003, 10:06 PM
*****SPOILER!!!!******

































The book was good, but I didn't notice the lack of action until you all pointed it out. I guess the political intrigue and shifting alliances were enough for me. Definitely this is a side tale, even though it has major reprecussions. It may be very focused, but most of the paperback are supposed to be. Traitor, Agents of Chaos, Dark Journey, they all fill in the smaller parts between the hardcovers.
What I thought was super cool was the Valara Saar reference. I initially got the feeling there was going to be more to that, but they kind of ignored it by the end of the book.
HAs anyone else thought about Zonma Sekot? I'm very curious why the Jedi think this will be the key to ending the war. I'm sure it will all make sense when they get to a few more novels, but I'm just wondering why they're all so focused on finding it, reguardless of what Vergere said. I'm still not sure how a living planet will be the piece to finish this war.

ElfWord
8 May 2003, 06:39 AM
ROGUE PLANET SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!












In the book Rogue Planet, which is basically about Zonama Sekot, we learn that the planet was attacked by Yuuzhan Vong, and drove them off! This means that ZoSe has some method of counteracting the YV, and as the planet has matured with time it is likely that it has better control and understanding of it's powers.

wolverine
8 May 2003, 09:50 AM
SPOLERS********************




























Spoilers*******************




You were warned...

Also, it was mentioned by Vergre, that part of the Vong attack on the planet, was they tried to use their Bio tech to terraform the planet, and the planet actually fought back and kicked out the vong biotech. It is mostly i think because of this that Luke and Co are hunting it down.....

Aaron B'Aviv
15 June 2003, 07:37 PM
Okay, I'm bumping this thread up because I finally finished Refugee.

My first comment is that the long spoiler things are annoying as hell. It ruins my ability to follow the thread to have to scroll through all those spoiler things. For the next book that comes out, would someone please create a Spoilers Thread so it's not necessary to have all that scrolling when you're discussing the book.

Secondly, for all those who were surprised and pleased to see Valara Saar, please note that I predicted that she would be in this book after noticing the mention of Yashuvhu in Remnant. You can find that in this thread (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11328&highlight=Yashuvhu) Sorry, I just had to brag ;-) I wish she had a larger role, though. I guess they just didn't have room for a side trip to Yashuvhu.

I loved the Ryn shadow network thing. All this time, the Bothans have been hyped as the best spynet around. Now we learn that the Bothans don't hold a candle to the Ryn spynet. They're everywhere, even with communications down across the galaxy. Amazing.

I can't believe the Nets threw away the championship the way they did. Disgusting. Tim Duncan's a monster. *gets to work creating stats*

I liked the relationship between Jacen and Wyn. The whole "My brother's dating your sister" thing could've been awkward, but they were both big enough to overcome that. Danni's right. Jacen's just a nice human being.

Nom Anor... what do we say about him? Best character in the whole series, perhaps? Most dynamic, most adaptible, the epitome of his archetype. I love all the things they've done with him throughout NJO, and this Prophet thing is really neat. Just wait and see if he starts to actually believe it.

Tahiri... The question of "Who is Tahiri Veila?" was repeated a couple of times in the story. They could've done a whole novel, a la Dark Journey, just developing that question. I wish they had. I felt the development of Tahiri's multiple personality disorder was shoved to the background. It should have had a more important place than it did.

Zonama Sekot... I can't believe this planet has all the powers they're attributing to it. It jumps from system to system leaving aggressive behavior in the indigenous peoples in its wake? I could almost buy the hyperspace capable self-aware planet, but it's getting to be a bit much. Maybe if they had spent more prequel-era time developing Zonama Sekot, as opposed to just Rogue Planet.

Nova Spice
15 June 2003, 09:56 PM
For the next book that comes out, would someone please create a Spoilers Thread so it's not necessary to have all that scrolling when you're discussing the book.

Isn't that what this thread is? :raised:

Wedge in Red2
16 June 2003, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by Aaron B'Aviv
My first comment is that the long spoiler things are annoying as hell. It ruins my ability to follow the thread to have to scroll through all those spoiler things. For the next book that comes out, would someone please create a Spoilers Thread so it's not necessary to have all that scrolling when you're discussing the book.


I think Aaron is referring to all the individual spoilers in the posts. In future, what we want to do is have the word “spoilers” in the title (as I did with this thread after my initial post) so that users don’t have to put obscene amounts of spoilers in their posts. So, if you're the one that starts such a thread, put the words in the post title. Otherwise I'll have to go back and edit it (and Mods aren't really expected to do any work, are they ;) ).

Jon

Nova Spice
16 June 2003, 07:43 AM
I think Aaron is referring to all the individual spoilers in the posts. In future, what we want to do is have the word “spoilers” in the title (as I did with this thread after my initial post) so that users don’t have to put obscene amounts of spoilers in their posts. So, if you're the one that starts such a thread, put the words in the post title. Otherwise I'll have to go back and edit it (and Mods aren't really expected to do any work, are they ;).

Ah, roger that Jon!

I remember you editing it and now I understand what Aaron is talking about. And I wouldn't want you, as the Mod, having to run around and alter everyone's threads; that wouldn't be too much fun! :D ;)


Secondly, for all those who were surprised and pleased to see Valara Saar, please note that I predicted that she would be in this book after noticing the mention of Yashuvhu in Remnant. You can find that in this thread Sorry, I just had to brag ;-) I wish she had a larger role, though. I guess they just didn't have room for a side trip to Yashuvhu.

Yea, I was completely shocked to find Valara Saar in the novels; she's now an official EU character. As far as her role, remember that there is still Force Heretic III: Reunion; we may still be in for a treat yet! B)

papasith
23 June 2003, 05:27 PM
SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!









OR ARE THERE?











AH WHO CARES!













i just wanted to post my opinions on why they are searching for the "living planet".
1.why the 3 "most powerful jedi" are looking for it; its quite simple if you think about it. a jedi's number one goal is to stop a threat with out force if possible. finding this planet might accomplish there goal of peacfully (or as close to peacefully as possible) ending the war so why not send some of the highest trained of there order to go?

2. why are they looking for the planet; it has the living technology like the vong have. by finding the planet they might learn more about the vong and there technology.
its been awhile since i read this so excuse me if i can't think of much else to bring up. hope i clarified something for someone at least