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Rogal Dorn
19 May 2003, 06:12 AM
This guy shoulda been the obvious choice, he looks exactly like a grown up version of Jake Lloyd. Im guessing he didnt want to do a Mark Hamill, although i suppose Hamill wasnt established when he played Luke. Thoughts?:anakin:

Korpil
19 May 2003, 07:15 AM
Shouldn't this be on Chaos & Miscellanea or Rants & Raves?

scottyboy
19 May 2003, 07:28 AM
I must say that if Leonardo DiCaprio played Anakin Skywalker, it would have completely ruined the film. I wouldn't have payed the 8 bucks to see it in the theaters if he had been in it. Just my opinion.

Rogal Dorn
19 May 2003, 07:50 AM
I think hayden was to moody broody, like some kinda naff James Dean effort. I mean he looked ok and his acting was well... average. Did he have the charisma to be Darth Vader? Who knows, DiCaprio mighta gave the roll some credability. Spose Lucas is known for succssefuly casting unknowns. Might change my mind after ep3. Come on anakin dont be so lame/weak/pathetic. Still rekon Vin Diesel shoulda been in there somewhere, like Jango or someone, maybe a real bad guy like palpatines personal bodyguard. Who Knows?

scottyboy
19 May 2003, 07:58 AM
I'm not saying that Hayden did an outstanding job or anything. I mean, he didn't do a terrible job. He was just... adequate. I guess that's part of why I like Lucas' films... he doesn't cast big name people. Sam Jackson was his biggest one. But even Sam isn't all THAT big. He's been in some movies, yes. But he hasn't really been in all that many BIG movies. Liam Neeson and Ewen McGregor are the same way... They've been in some movies, but not many BIG movies. It would have ruined it for me I guess. I don't know... to each his own.

Nova Spice
19 May 2003, 08:29 AM
I think hayden was to moody broody, like some kinda naff James Dean effort. I mean he looked ok and his acting was well... average. Did he have the charisma to be Darth Vader? Who knows, DiCaprio mighta gave the roll some credability. Spose Lucas is known for succssefuly casting unknowns. Might change my mind after ep3. Come on anakin dont be so lame/weak/pathetic. Still rekon Vin Diesel shoulda been in there somewhere, like Jango or someone, maybe a real bad guy like palpatines personal bodyguard. Who Knows?

I don't know, I thought Hayden's performance was pretty good personally. I think the character, Anakin Skywalker, has grown more somber in between the two films and thus, doesn't show emotions often. Now, as the film progresses and more and more things begin happening to Anakin, his emotions begin to escape him (ala concerning his love for Padme, his nightmares about his mother on Naboo, his slaughtering of the Tusken Raiders, and Padme's fall off of the gunship). Every time Hayden was required to show emotion, he did it fairly well I thought.

The DiCaprio guy is, well, not up to Star Wars standards IMO. He's not tough enough to play Anakin, and Lucas would've told you the same thing. Hayden had the "look" down and IMO, if DiCaprio had tried to flash a "I'm the future Dark Lord of the Sith and I'm gonna beat the living hell outta you" look, I probably would have laughed until I went into convulsions.

Now, Vin Diesel, would've looked quite strange as Jango Fett. Temeura Morrison was a great Jango and I think everyone agrees with that. I think Lucas' only casting mistake in all five films was Jake Lloyd. The kid bothered me; maybe it was his lines, but he seemed too much like some kid that should have been practicing coloring in-between the lines, than Darth Vader.

That's my two cents, for what their worth. :D

ij thompson
19 May 2003, 10:30 AM
Everybody has a knee-jerk reaction to DiCaprio, but like him or not, the guy's got skills. Check him out in Woody Allen's Celebrity, and tell me wouldn'ta made a kick-ass Anakin Skywalker...

wolverine
19 May 2003, 10:42 AM
I agree with that, Dicaprio has gotten a bad rap. I mean, look at gangs of new york! That was probabily his best performance to date.. But he also has had some that were just sheite.. Titannic, Romeo and juliette. Although i did like the Beach...

Sasche
19 May 2003, 11:25 AM
I have to agree with you, Wolverine. Until I saw Gangs of New York, I might not have thought so, but DiCaprio did well in that film. He certainly looked "tough enough" to pull off the role better than Hayden did.

But I can't blame Hayden too much. George Lucas has managed to make Ewen MacGregor, Liam Neeson, Natalie Portman, and others look pathetic. These have all acted exponentially better in other films.
Sam Jackson has escaped looking bad only because Mace hasn't had much screen time yet.

So would DiCaprio been better? Maybe, but Lucas would have most likely screwed him up too.

Is Irvin Kershner still alive (ESB director)? Lucas would do well to bring a REAL director in for EP III before he slaughters yet a 3rd movie.

Lucas Carr
19 May 2003, 12:35 PM
Acting skills aside, because of the movies I've seen DiCaprio in, I don't think he'd fit in a Star Wars movie. But then again, I probably wouldn't have put Jackson in Star Wars either and I think he did a good Mace Windu.

Silent
19 May 2003, 01:11 PM
Not having seen Gangs of New York, I can hardly comment on Di Caprio, but when I looked at AotC this week on DVD I started thinking that Hayden's acting was a little wooden at times when it was supposed to be merely laconic and ubderstated. Still, the scenes where he had to show lots of emotion were well done.

Jedi_Staailis
19 May 2003, 02:24 PM
I think Hayden did an excellent job as Anakin. As Nova Spice mentioned, he did well starting to look like Vader when he needed to. I was impressed by the way Hayden layered the somewhat boyish openness (watch the way he uses his facial expressions to show emotion) with a darker, troubled inside. I think what really made the actors look bad was a few instances of truly "cringe" moments. Take the following for example: (I apologize if I don't quite get the order of the dialogue right)

"Someday, I will be the most powerful Jedi ever. I will even learn how to stop people from dying!"
"Annie."
"It's all Obi-Wan's fault! He's holding me back!"
"Annie, what's wrong?"

Okay, maybe it's just me, but the first thing I thought of was that Anakin's mother was dead, after at least weeks of him having nightmares about it, and he's just hours too late to keep her alive. Padme's words are just about the most cruel thing a person could say at that particular instant, and it's bad enough to make the viewer cringe.

Throw in a few more lines like this into the prequels ("Yipeee!") and it's enough to color our opinions of the entire movies.

Satyrgrrrrl
19 May 2003, 04:04 PM
Personally, I think Heath Ledger would have made a better Annie.

Hayden was winey, but I also think the writing/directing was atrocious, so he had a tough time from the get-go. I'm sure he would have done a better job with a better script and better direction.

I still would've loved to see Heath Ledger as Anakin, though.

:D

Codym
19 May 2003, 04:14 PM
Hayden did a fine job as Anakin, and I look forward to him in Episode III. He brought both the emotional and physical requirements to the performance. Leo DiCaprio is a terrific actor, but completely wrong for the role. To dewy eyed, to soft faced, to short. It would be like casting as Wolverine in X-Men.

Now, if they could drop Ewan McGregor and bring in Kenneth Brannagh...

Rogue Janson
20 May 2003, 02:43 AM
I thought Ewan McGregor improved a lot in AotC. In TPM he seemed to have a rather stiff manner, sometimes reminding me more of threepio than alec guiness, but he seems to have got the hang of the role a bit more now, so I expect even better things from him in epIII.

Rogal Dorn
20 May 2003, 04:16 AM
Check out 'The Basketball Diaries' to see what DiCaprio is capable of. I think everyones just jealous of the guy cos he gets all the attention and the babes. Fact is he's a great actor, and great actors make great films greater. Same goes for Brad Pitt, who wouldve been perfect as obi-wan. I dont know why Lucas wanted to get people who looked like alec guiness when he was younger or whoever to fill the rolls. He shouldve made films rather than filling in the blanks. Lets be honest, Sam Jackson is the only guy whos given ep2 any cred everyone else is wooden as mahogany. Exception - Palpatine/portman. God save episode3, i hope its not just another effects extravaganza!

Thoughts any1?

Sasche
20 May 2003, 05:28 AM
My hopes for Ep III:

1) Any war scenes are not simply extended commercials for Lucas's action figures. The Jedi vs droid war was cool. But when the Clones arrived, the battle became one long commercial. They would focus on one droid/vehicle for 30 seconds, then never show it again. They did this for about 8 or 9 different things.
Bring back the battles like Hoth. On one side they have snowspeeders. On the other, they have AT-ATs. Then have a good story and use these neat vehicles as tools for this story. Ep II was just a random battle with a huge variety of vehicles that you know nothing about.

2) Any war scenes are more serious. No "Gomer Pyle Antics" where a bumbling idoit accidently blows up the enemy tanks. Or accidently has a gun stuck to his foot. In stomping it he accidently shoots eight or nine battle droids.
I know Lucas is trying to appeal to a huge range of audiences.
But I have to ask, WHY? Why make a mediocre movie for 100% of the population, when you can focus on a smaller group of people and make a movie that is awesome.

3) I've said before - Lucas NEEDS to bring in a real director. Someone who can flesh out the wooden dialogue that Lucas has come up with, and give these actors some real direction. I've seen better love stories in a Simpson's episode.

Rogal Dorn
20 May 2003, 05:34 AM
Gotta agree with you there dude. The love thing worked in ESB but in AotC it kinda sucked. I mean, i'm gonna go easy cos they're only young but come on Carrie Fisher was not much older than portman, and Ford well he was as cool as the carbonite he got frozen in. Lucas we want cool, we want style, we want the 70's & 80's grooves of the originals. No more childish crap please.

Louis Cipher
26 May 2003, 02:35 PM
I have to disagree with you on #1 Sasche. ESB worked well because it represented a struggling Rebel force scrapping up what it could to fight the Imperial War Machine, and even then had to improvise. AoTC represented total warfare between two galactic forces with well equipped and "balanced" forces (i.e.: Infantry, Armour, and Air assets)
I think the Rebel Generals would have loved to have access to that kind of equipment to fight the Empire. I was quite disappointed in not seeing Tie Bombers pounding the rebel positions prior to the walker assault. George obviously talked to some real military personnel between ESB and AoTC. The Clone armies Assault Gunships were especially formidable units and I am quite surprised that the Empire did not continue using a similar air unit.

The Love Scene stuff, casting of Anakin, etc. Well, I do not think GL has done a great job with the script/directing/casting of any of the Anakins, but it is his story and I can only hope that he gets lucky on the next one. Hayden was wooden, and so was Lloyd, but I do think that the script was weak. The only person that I think should ever be cast in a love scene with NP is me though, so I am probably biased on that one. It is a necessary part of showing Anakin's flaws as a Jedi, and his fall to the Dark Side, so I do think it should be in there. I think that it could have been portrayed more intelligently though.

Darth Fury
26 May 2003, 04:01 PM
Loui, Loui, Loui what am I gonna do with you. You think that Hayden was wooden ok I'll give you that but if Lucas had given him some enery and direction and some much better dialog we wouldn't be having this discussion, I think he did ok and has pontential to do great if he gets some good direction and dialog that doesn't sound like it was written for Jake Lloyd instead of a man entering his twenties.
ooooh and just so I don't get accussed of thread jacking I can't stand DiCaprio I don't know if its just because the first thing I saw him in was 'What's Eating Gilbert Grape?' or what the reason is but I have seen most of the things he has done and I don't like his persona in any of them either maybe he reminds me of kids I never liked back in school with his cocky too cool loud mouthed attitude but I would have had serious doubts about seeing the movie if he had been cast in the role of Anikin. HEY!!! maybe we'll all get lucky and Anikin will be in the Darth Vader helmet for most of the film and James Earl Jones will do all of his dialog "Padme you will! Take off your ####### and show me your ###!!;) (that's a inside joke between mr Cipher and me)

AzmoDanakar
27 May 2003, 08:28 AM
My personal pick for Anakin would have been Ryan Phillippe. He has the 'look' that Uncle George was going for but also has a range of emotion that I thought would have pulled it off quite well. I didnt dislike Hayden C, in fact I thought he did very well with the role, brought pain both simmering and fresh to his face without words, vented teh pressure cooker teenage angst of someone denied a true childhood and allowed the anger to rise up inside him with deliberate modulation. Looking back on Hamill's portrayal of Luke ( especially the Bespin hand-chop scene) was in my opinion both very good and very funny. ( after the 400th viewing anything can be seen as funny) Many of us have this hyper-critical fan-boy filter through which we view these movies, and anyone's portrayal will fail to live up to expectations.

Nova Spice
27 May 2003, 09:27 AM
Many of us have this hyper-critical fan-boy filter through which we view these movies, and anyone's portrayal will fail to live up to expectations

Totally true Azmo; which is why I hardly give any credence to discussions on Hayden Christensen's performance. He played his part well and no matter what type of preconceived notions all of us have had floating through our heads about what Episode I-III should've been like, they're going to be told George's way and we'll just have to live with it.

I personally have found both the prequels to be entertaining and since Star Wars is entertainment, that means George did his job. ;)

Altman
10 June 2003, 04:47 PM
DiCaprio is a decent enough actor drama wise...but the mental image of him with a light saber and looking up at christopher lee...well it's enough to make you laugh so hard your milk comes out your nosse....

As far as george's dialog and directing...i agree it's rough at time...and even occasionally painfull.

On the other hand go back and watch the original films. Watch the acting and listen to the dialog. Now while Harrison Ford is great, a lot of what you see isn't all that impressive. Mark Hammel, well i kinda look at his work in the star wars films the same way i do at Shatner in Trek. Not a great actor...quite possibly not even a good actor, but he was great for the part.

I guess the bottom line of what i'm trying to say (and admitidly not saying very well) is that the original films are beloved bits of our past. I grew up with them (like many of you folks) and waited 16 years for the prequils to start showing up. When they did, many of us went to the theatres expecting the film equivalent of the second comeing. What did we get...well we got exactly what we got the first time around. A fairy tail with lasers that was written largely with 10 year olds in mind.

The trick is in 1977 movies weren't as sophisticated as they are now. I'm not talking special effects either. Dialog, direction, and a number of other important bits of film makeing have come a long way since then. In many ways the prequils are still in the late seventies early eighties modes. What dose this mean....that with the exception of the effects shots being as far past the ones in the original films as the original films were past everything else in theatres at the time, they fit very well with the original trilogy.

wow....*looks around sheepishly*...um...i guess i went a bit off topic with that...*cough*

we now return you to your regularly scedualed thread

Franksta
11 June 2003, 05:39 AM
DiCaprio is a fine actor, but not suitable for a SW movie and especially not a character who turns from hero to villian. With the exception of the boy who played Bobba Fett i was pleased with the performances by all the AotC actors. THe romance scenes were for me particularly painful to watch, but i give the actors credit. With respect to George Lucas, i don't think he does romance very well. He needs to develope the relationships a little more before people run off and start getting married.

and as far as the talk of bad dialogue, "this party's over."

Louis Cipher
5 July 2003, 11:04 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Altman
[B]DiCaprio is a decent enough actor drama wise...but the mental image of him with a light saber and looking up at christopher lee...well it's enough to make you laugh so hard your milk comes out your nosse....

That is an interesting image. I would have to agree with it however, as good as DiCaprio has been in recent films, he would not be the right choice for Anakin.

I guess the bottom line of what i'm trying to say (and admitidly not saying very well) is that the original films are beloved bits of our past. I grew up with them (like many of you folks) and waited 16 years for the prequils to start showing up. When they did, many of us went to the theatres expecting the film equivalent of the second comeing. What did we get...well we got exactly what we got the first time around. A fairy tail with lasers that was written largely with 10 year olds in mind.

I don't think that GL ever told us we were going to get something different. While the imagery is much more sophisticated, the story is the same. The chronicle of the Skywalker family in the rise and fall of the evil galactic empire.

The trick is in 1977 movies weren't as sophisticated as they are now. I'm not talking special effects either. Dialog, direction, and a number of other important bits of film makeing have come a long way since then.

What?! Are you nuts? Have you ever seen movies such as Bridge on the River Kwai, or anything by Hitchcock? Even films such as Gone with the Wind portray a level of sophistication far above most of the rubbish shot in the 80's and 90's. To Kill a Mockingbird? No, I think that this line is wrong, It is not that the films were less sophisticated then, it is that GL decided to produce a epic adventure story similar to the old Serials (Like the Lone Ranger), and did it with the same sort of innocent naivity. I think if you are expecting some sort of epic that is that sophisticated stick to Lawrence of Arabia, and just enjoy the inner child in yourself and appreciate SW for what it is, a great way to be a kid again.

XJ3 X-Wing
6 July 2003, 09:31 AM
I'm not saying that Hayden did a great job in AOTC but if it was Leo I would tear my hair out. Titanic was ruined by him! He sucked in the Man In the Iron Mask. He doesn't even look cool.

Reverend Strone
6 July 2003, 10:23 PM
Sorry guys, I'm going to have to play Mean Moderator again-

Given the unfortunate fate of a similar thread concerning Natalie Portman, I would strongly advise folks to remain courteous and polite, and refrain from making potentially inflamatory blanket statements like "such and such wrecked that film" or "such and such sucks".

This does not constructively add anything to the discussion and can be construed as trolling, which earns a warning. I'm sure that's not what anyone here intended.

If folks want to debate these topics, they can do so in a civil and adult manner. Play nice and the discussion will remain open, otherwise I'll be forced to close it.