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View Full Version : Please George get Irvin Kershner to direct Ep3



Rogal Dorn
23 May 2003, 02:02 AM
Does anyone else agree that ep3 should be dark like ep5? And isKershner is the man for the job. Any thoughts on who should direct? Or is lucas already on the case?

Korpil
23 May 2003, 03:56 AM
Once again, this is topic for Chaos & Miscellanea or Rants & Raves.

Besides, George Lucas will direct E3...

Reverend Strone
23 May 2003, 02:09 PM
Shifted to Rants and Raves...

Korpil is correct. GL is locked as far as I'm aware, to direct Ep III.

I'd agree that he's not the strongest director (though he is a great creator of exciting worlds), but he's dead set on it, so I don't think there's much we can do about it. Hopefully the story will be strong enough to ride through any problems that might arise from perceived directing shortcomings.

Of course, it's all just a matter of opinion anyway.

dgswensen
23 May 2003, 03:05 PM
Kershner's other directing credits include Robocop 2, SeaQuest DSV, and the Amazing Stories episode "Hell Toupee." It's not like he's exactly bulletproof. He can chug out crap just like any other director.

Besides, he's in his 80s now, and IMHO all directors just seem to go crazy or lose their talent after a certain age. Spielberg, Ridley Scott, James Cameron, all did brilliant work in their early careers but are now pretty much making schlock.

Besides which, I don't think ESB was the end-all be-all of the Star Wars movies. It's good, but I don't find it to be that head-and-shoulders above the rest.

Reverend Strone
23 May 2003, 04:11 PM
Good comments. Let's hope George can find it in himself for this next one. The word I've heard is the film is exceptionally promising on paper, so let's hope that can make it too screen.

At worst, like all the SW movies, it'll be packed full of cool stuff to look at and whoop-ass when all else fails.

Bombaatu
23 May 2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by Reverend Strone
At worst, like all the SW movies, it'll be packed full of cool stuff to look at and whoop-ass when all else fails.

Wow, Rev... didn't know they knew about whoop-ass in New Zealand. You been visiting Dixie without telling us? I can probably hook you up with some "good ol' boys" who can wax philosophic on the finer points of whoop-ass, if'n ya like... ;)

Nova Spice
24 May 2003, 08:03 AM
Wow, Rev... didn't know they knew about whoop-ass in New Zealand. You been visiting Dixie without telling us? I can probably hook you up with some "good ol' boys" who can wax philosophic on the finer points of whoop-ass, if'n ya like...

You, Bombaatu, like myself, are in a very promising place to present folks to teach Rev the finer points of whoop-ass! Alabama and Texas have the greatest collection of good ole' boys in the world. "Don't Mess With Texas" and "Run The Hell Away From Alabama." :D :P

On a more serious note, I feel that if anyone else directed Episode III, it would be a sacrilege. George is the creator of Star Wars and as creator, he has the right to do what he pleases, which is complete his story. Despite opinions to the contrary, he's in it more for himself than for the fans, as he rightfully should be, it's his baby. ;)

Sasche
24 May 2003, 10:26 AM
I want Lucas to complete his story. But I want him to be the "general" storyline creator. He could also oversee the special FX team. He's good at that too.
But he needs a real director. He needs someone to come in and morph Lucas's ideas into good (or at least not ridiculous) dialogue.

I haven't seen one director damage so many good actors skills in one fell swoop. Other than Sam Jackson (who was lucky to not have enough screen time to be damaged) everyone else was made to look silly. And Liam Neeson, Ewen McGregor, and Natalie Portman, these are all good actors who have done great movies elsewhere.

I'm not trashing Lucas's story. I'm absolutely going to go see Ep III when it comes out. But, if Lucas is directing... Ugh

Darth Fury
24 May 2003, 12:15 PM
I think that GL needs to get back to his roots. He needs to rediscover the energy he had when he made the first three films remember what it was that drove him to tell HIS story the way HE sees fit, and tell Ben Burtt to stick to making great sound effects and Rick Macalum(???SP???/???name???) to stick to accounting or producing or whatever he does and have them both keep their mouths shut about storytelling and editing.
If you don't understand what I'm talking about watch the deleted scenes from AotC and you will hear GL say that ben andf rick strongly suggested that he cut the scenes that made up the back story for the 'love interest'(not his exact words but you'll understand my conclusion) portion of the sub-plot. Now I'm not a 'writer' or a film-maker' but I do understand that it's impossible to tell a love story that makes any sense without any character development between the two would-be intimates, I mean come on I've seen porno films with more character development and better dialog between the actors than the 'love story' in AotC.:mad:

Sasche
24 May 2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Darth Fury
... I mean come on I've seen porno films with more character development and better dialog between the actors than the 'love story' in AotC.:mad:

I love it. If you don't mind, I'm going to use this line. It perfectly sums up my assesment of the AotC "love story".

Darth Fury
24 May 2003, 02:22 PM
Be my guest Sasche!! And thanks!! I'm glad that I'm not the only one who's disappointed with GL's last outing.

Reverend Strone
24 May 2003, 06:43 PM
I think that GL needs to get back to his roots. He needs to rediscover the energy he had when he made the first three films remember what it was that drove him to tell HIS story the way HE sees fit, and tell Ben Burtt to stick to making great sound effects and Rick Macalum(???SP???/???name???) to stick to accounting or producing or whatever he does and have them both keep their mouths shut about storytelling and editing.

I couldn't disagree more. I guess it is a matter of opinion, but if you're talking about the deleted scenes in AOTC- have you tried watching them??? They are the most dull, poorly written, mind-numbing drivel. Heck, I can't believe they actually filmed them, let alone debated cutting them later. Likewise pretty much all the deleted scenes in TPM. With the exception of the pod race stuff (personally I couldn't get enough of that), all those deleted scenes were dreadful and should never have made it off the page and in front of camera to be cut.

If there's anything Lucas needs it's experienced folks like Ben Burrt, who have been with him since the beginning, offering genuine, informed opinions in the hopes of helping their friend and boss make his films as good as they can be. If anything could have been done to save the love story in AOTC, it would be adding more of it IMHO.

As I said though- that's just my opinion. I respect that yours may differ.

Crin Daroota
24 May 2003, 07:04 PM
There's a good point on both sides here. True, those scenes were pretty lame/horrible to watch. But you gotta do something more to develop a love INTEREST, let alone a MARRIAGE of such galactic proportions. I still stick to the "in one scene she's annoyed by him, then he slaughters some Tuskens and suddenly she thinks he's wonderful" line of thinking. There simply needs to be more there than frollicking in the grass to make me think they're ready to be MARRIED. Anyone else see this as a little forced, with nothing in the script to back it up?

Or is it: "The Tusken Scourge lost an arm. Now he's a hotty, too." :D

Reverend Strone
24 May 2003, 07:21 PM
Very true Crin, but I think that involved fixing (or completely replacing) those scenes which didn't work rather than having more of them. I just think a greater collaboration with others could help GL where he's falling down and make these movies as good as they deserve to be, and as good as we all want them to be. I desperately want him to succeed, because it means I get to go see great SW films and not be the only one in the cinema not laughing or asleep.

Crin Daroota
24 May 2003, 07:41 PM
Don't get me wrong, Rev. I'm glad those horrible scenes weren't in the final release. That one at the dinner table was painful to watch. I'm more or less agreeing with you, when I say that there needed to be something more. If the scenes are crappy, cut them, but for Sith's sake please give me some reason to believe that this girl should actually like this boy more at the end of the movie than at the beginning. Let alone MARRY him.

Darth Fury
25 May 2003, 07:18 AM
My point Gentlemen wasn't that the deleted scenes in either TMP or AotC were 'golden moments' in film making but that they were vital interaction between the two would be intimates and in my opinion were really no worse than the 'love scenes' that they left in. I know that SW is usually centered around action but if you want to relate a love story, that the general public will understand and appreciate, you needed those scenes or at least ones like them. I truly think that GL should consult his friends but why didn't he consult Spielberg or Scorcese?? I can understand wanting input from friends and colleges but if he wanted advice on telling a love story he should hve contacted them instead, and don't get me wrong I don't have anything against Burtt or Macalum but what films have they ever directed??

Reverend Strone
25 May 2003, 02:52 PM
Crin and Darth- you're both right on those points. My hopes now rest on the promise that the best is yet to come.

Please be true, please be true, please be true...

Darth Fury
25 May 2003, 07:56 PM
AAAAA-MEN, Reverend!!!! :D:D :D ;) :P

mojo1701
27 May 2003, 05:08 PM
If someone else were to direct Ep. III, then it'd probably suffer the same fate as the Star Trek franchise has been in after the death of Gene Roddenberry. It's just... wrong.

Sasche
27 May 2003, 07:12 PM
I don't understand why you think a different director would "kill" the series.
Empire Strikes Back (in my opinion, the best SW movie, by leaps and bounds) was not directed by George Lucas.
That is why the Subject of this thread mentions Irvin Kershner, the director of ESB.
And Return of the Jedi was also not directed by Lucas (Richard Marquand).

After checking imdb.com, it reveals the bad news...
It appears that Lucas is going to direct Ep III.

Ugh...

I don't know what to say now....

Ugh....

Reverend Strone
27 May 2003, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by mojo1701
If someone else were to direct Ep. III, then it'd probably suffer the same fate as the Star Trek franchise has been in after the death of Gene Roddenberry. It's just... wrong.

Sadly, pretty much all of my once-sw fan friends would say that has already happened mojo1701. I'm pretty much the only one remaining from my circle of buddies who enjoys SW since the prequels came out. They've vowed not to see Ep III on the principle that they thought the last two were such terrible films.

If that were just one of two people I could pass it off, but this is a group of around ten or more once-avid SW fans. They're intelligent, discerning people who love movies, but were completely bored by GL's last two offerings.

This is symptomatic of what's happening to SW. New fans are appearing, but the nature of the new films has left a large chunk of folks who once loved the series unimpressed and uninterested. the anticipation for new SW movies is waning (though it is of course still considerable). You only have to look at the sharp drop in box office takings between Eps 1 & 2 to see that a huge number of folks who went to see Ep 1 never bothered to go back for Ep 2.

That's not the way it's supposed to work. So what's going wrong?

Bombaatu
27 May 2003, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Nova Spice


You, Bombaatu, like myself, are in a very promising place to present folks to teach Rev the finer points of whoop-ass! Alabama and Texas have the greatest collection of good ole' boys in the world. "Don't Mess With Texas" and "Run The Hell Away From Alabama." :D :P


Funny you should mention that, Nova - I happen to be from Birmingham, originally. I'm a kind of expert on multi-cultural whoop-ass - various 'flavors', if you will... ;)

Reverend Strone
27 May 2003, 09:53 PM
Alright you lads are really scaring me now.

Darth Fury
28 May 2003, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by mojo1701
If someone else were to direct Ep. III, then it'd probably suffer the same fate as the Star Trek franchise has been in after the death of Gene Roddenberry. It's just... wrong.

It's been pointed out here before but GL has had other people direct sw films mojo ESB for one.

Fred Getce
28 May 2003, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by Reverend Strone
So what's going wrong?

People grew up and their tastes changed, that is what happened. And even before anyone can even try to throw up some post to defend their hatred of the film lets take a moment to absorb some common sense and scientific reasoning.

If Reverend Strone, Rigel_Kent, Kayle Skolaris and I all went to see a movie together. We bought our own tickets, snacks and drinks. Sat through a film we all decided to see. Than left the theater to be interviewed seperately or together, you WILL either get one unanimous "We loved it.", or a unaminous "We hated it." or a mix of both. Now is it because of the director, actors, story, fx, set design, costume design, etc.? NO! It is the fact that the individuals in question have different tastes in films and what they wish to see in the film can be and usually is drastically different than the next guy.

So if you did not like TPM or AOTC or both, than it is you, not George Lucas or the actors, or even the story that is the problem. Your tastes in what you wish to see in film were not satisfied, because they are different from others (I personally liked TPM and AOTC). Period, and IT IS NOT George Lucas's job to personally satisfy your tastes simply because your tastes in films may not even be the same as his. A 100 people could see Star Wars EPIII and 92 of them liked it, 8 hated it. Whose at fault here? GL or the 8 people? Vice Versa if 100 people saw it and 92 hated it and 8 loved it, again who is at fault? GL or the 92 people?

Reverend Strone
28 May 2003, 05:33 PM
Ordinarily I would agree Fred, but in this case I think it is the director. TPM and AOTC are totally different to the first trilogy- though more like ROTJ than any of the others. It's not because tastes change in this case.

They are simply a different flavour of movie, and don't have what a number of SW fans found so appealing about the originals. They just don't have the charisma and charm of the old films.

Perhaps it's just the lack of Harrison Ford? Who knows, but when one compares the love moments (for example) from ESB with those from AOTC, there is a huge difference in effectiveness. Likewise the asteroid sequences. In ESB, that sequence was great action. In AOTC, it was laughable.

There's an emphasis on flashy style over content.

I know many won't agree with me here, but I would say one only has to look at the difference between the Classic trilogy and the Sp Eds. All the new creatures added to the Sp Eds never stop moving and never shut up. They're just flashy eye-candy.

Now I love eye-candy as much as anyone. That's part of what I love about SW, but it needs to have a story underneath to grab and hold the rest of the populace. Otherwise it's no different than the next big budget no brains action flick except for the glowing swords.

My buddy has a three year old kid to whom he has introduced the SW movies. This kid craves SW. He has watched the films so many times now (or parts- as my friend correctly skips some bits that are too mature for the kid), but was bored with TPM after 5 minutes. It doesn't hold him. You cannot tell me this kid's tastes have changed.

I don't know what it is that fails to hold him in TPM. I would have thought it was more of a kids film than any of them, but he's not interested it it.

Anyway- I'm not sure if that supports my case or not, but I thought it worth mentioning.

Then there's my wife. She is no SW fan- never was, but she can tolerate the classic three being on when I need my fix. TPM and AOTC however, will drive her up the wall. I cannot have them on when she's around. They irritate the heck out of her. What's the difference? Her tastes haven't changed.

SW used to be better than this. It had charm. It doesn't anymore, and I lay that blame with the creator, not with audiences.

mojo1701
28 May 2003, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Reverend Strone
I know many won't agree with me here, but I would say one only has to look at the difference between the Classic trilogy and the Sp Eds. All the new creatures added to the Sp Eds never stop moving and never shut up. They're just flashy eye-candy.

Now I love eye-candy as much as anyone. That's part of what I love about SW, but it needs to have a story underneath to grab and hold the rest of the populace. Otherwise it's no different than the next big budget no brains action flick except for the glowing swords.

I agree with this 110%. Keep the sermon goin', Rev!


My buddy has a three year old kid to whom he has introduced the SW movies. This kid craves SW. He has watched the films so many times now (or parts- as my friend correctly skips some bits that are too mature for the kid), but was bored with TPM after 5 minutes. It doesn't hold him. You cannot tell me this kid's tastes have changed.

I didn't get into Star Wars until a few years ago (about 4 years ago, was 12 years old, I believe). I've never seen the OrT (still haven't seen it from beginning to end [possible exception of ANH]. I was only able to catch it on Fox, and even then, my parents told me to go to sleep), but when I saw TPM for the first time in theatres, I didn't know why I didn't get into this sooner!


[B]Perhaps it's just the lack of Harrison Ford?

Oh, most definitely. There's no more Han Solo-type character anymore. People liked him. Well, that, and because he's Harrison Ford.

Grimace
28 May 2003, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by Fred Getce

(snip) Period, and IT IS NOT George Lucas's job to personally satisfy your tastes simply because your tastes in films may not even be the same as his. A 100 people could see Star Wars EPIII and 92 of them liked it, 8 hated it. Whose at fault here? GL or the 8 people? Vice Versa if 100 people saw it and 92 hated it and 8 loved it, again who is at fault? GL or the 92 people?

Actually, it is GL's job to satisfy the tastes of the fans, otherwise there's not much point in putting out a movie. The focus of most movies made nowadays is to grab the audience, to pull them in, and to give them something they want. That includes satisfying their tastes, be they young or old, die hard fans or newcomers, star wars junkies or couldn't-care-less type of people.

As to your last point, I'd have to say that if 100 people saw the film and 92 hated it, the creator is at fault for not creating something that is going to sell and continue to sell by capturing people's attention. Ninety two people not liking something is a sign that something's wrong somewhere, and it's probably not the people.

I'll also echo Reverend Strone's sentiments about the new trilogy for Star Wars. It doesn't have the catch. I've got an 11 year old boy who was all excited to go see the movies when they came out. Hype. When the videos came out, same thing: "We NEED to buy that video!" So we did. How many times has he watched TPM since we've got it? Twice. When there isn't any hype on TV about the movies, Star Wars is out of sight, out of mind for him. It doesn't have that grab that the "old" Star Wars had. After I watched Star Wars in the theaters in '77, I had to have the toys, and posters, and lunchbox, and bed sheets, and whatever else was Star Wars. My kid got one poster of Jar Jar (his favorite character:rolleyes: ) and that was it!

So what does this say? Maybe nothing. Maybe it says my kid's weird. Maybe it also says that the new Star Wars doesn't have the staying power or the grabbing power of the original trilogy.

I hope I'm wrong, and that Episode III is a total smashing hit that knocks everyone's socks off, but after the complete let-down of Ep I and the mediocre kick-back of Ep II, it's not looking like a good forecast.:(

Reverend Strone
28 May 2003, 07:41 PM
After rereading my own post above, I feel compelled to add that I don't think there's a right and wrong here. I agree with everything Fred said in his post. He's absolutely right- at least as far as a number of people go, but I don't think that explanation holds for everyone who came away from seeing the new movies disappointed. For a good number of them though, sure- their tastes have changed. I don't think that explanation holds for all of them however, and certainly not my disenfranchised buddies.

Heck, I even know people who worked on the SW films who said, "you know, they kinda didn't live up to what we had hoped foir, but we have very high hopes for the next one," and it's to that sentiment that I too, cling.

He's done it before. I desperately want him to do it again.

Sasche
28 May 2003, 08:14 PM
The one way I differ in "the nuimbers" is my "un-official" poll of friends. Whenever this topic comes up among my other Star Wars friends, it is the same thing. With people I've personally talked to, and some general feelings I perceive on the holonet, I would say that out of 100 Star Wars Fans, almost 50 would say Lucas "dropped the ball" on Ep I & II.

While I don't disagree that 92 of 100 "all of the people" walked out of the movies entertained. I walked out entertained. Perhaps even "satisfied" with the $8 I spent. But, have I bought the DVDs for Ep I & II? No. Do I want to even consider watching them? No. Will I continue watching my VHS tapes of the original trilogy? Absolutely. Do I want DVDs of the original trilogy? I can't wait.

Did my tastes change? I wouldn't think so. I would think that would mean I wouldn't care for ESB any more. The only thing that TPM and AotC do is make me appreciate ESB even more!

Puck
29 May 2003, 02:54 AM
I think the problem here is that the more mature (maybe! :D ) fans who all saw Star Wars the first time around - can no longer look through an 8 year old's eyes and see something like Star Wars for the first time.

Remember, nostalgia ain't what it used to be! :D

Today, Star Wars does not have the resonance for us because we're older, have seen more movies (and some better!) in the genre George helped renew, and we have our own internal vision of what the movies should be like.

And any kids who see the movies today have been brought into a world with a steady diet of sci-fi to bombard them. Star Wars isn't the novel experience it was in 1979.

And let's not forget, George has said he is making these movies for his kids. So if they enjoy them, what do we matter? :D

They are George's babies. And if we don't like what he does with them, well, at least we can be thankful for what he introduced to us - and what we are able to do in with his creation with the SWRPG!

Fred Getce
29 May 2003, 08:11 AM
Everyone is entitled to their opinion which I am not against I am just against all this George Lucas bashing because THEY didn't like it. Just because you didn't like it does not mean Geroge Lucas sucks or is a horrible director and couldn't tell a good story from his a******.

Maybe it's not the person's tastes changing, but not being able to change that is the problem. George told one story, now he is telling another which is totally different. It is like eating at a restaurant. You get the same thing time and time again from the same chef since he is the only chef you like because as you say, he is the greatest chef in the world, he can do no wrong. Then when the chef switches to a new recipe and you hate the new recipe you now say he is a horrble chef and doesn't need to be preparing food anymore, just because you do not like the new recipe.

When I on the other hand, did not care to much for his original recipe greatly love his new recipe even more now when compared to his original recipe.

Just because you do not like something does not mean that the person who made it is faulty when their are others who like it even more than you do. You simply do not like it. The person who made it is fine since they have others who like it. If 100% of the people hate it, than it IS the fault of the person who made it.

I guess I just lost it when I keep seeing every few weeks people starting a thread he about Lucas sucking, and being a horrible director or can't tell a good story andymore and should let someone else direct when I think the exact opposite to everyone else here.

I leave you with this to think on (this is for everyone who runs star wars).

I am the GM for my group for Star Wars game. I leave and they join your group. After one campaign they come to this forums and post threads that say you suck and should let someone else run the game since you are quite obviously unqualified to run SW RPG, but yet your original players are extremely happy with it and can find no fault with it. They love the way you handled this or that or how this happened and why. Who is at fault I ask you? The tastes (gaming style) of the new members? Their expectations in you? Their expectstions in the campaign? Your original group members? The system you are using?

What is it?

Sasche
29 May 2003, 01:32 PM
Ahhh, but I feel like I am being told I can't blame it on Lucas.
Yes, I don't care for what he has done. He is the director. This means he has the final say on what the moves are. Therefore, when I look for someone to blame on why the series is no longer of as good quality, he should be the first person I look to.
It's a weird set up with the last three being shown first, and the prequels coming later.
But, they are all the same story. Lucas is fine as a storyteller. Or at least I enjoy the story line he has created.
But, my point is that the finished polishing and finer points of dialogue are suffering. Lucas should hand the reins over to a better director. He can keep the title of executive producer. He deserves that. And maybe he can have "final say" on what stays in the movie.

Its the finer points of finishing a script or keeping track of the everyday shooting that he could leave to someone else.

As far as the comparison -- how about I started with one GM (ANH), and was introduced to an incredible SW RPG. Wow, great new stuff. I switched to a new GM (ESB ). Wow, oh wow! One of the best movies I have ever seen at any time of any genre!!!! Then I switched again to another GM (RotJ). Still great. A little different styles, but it was the SW RPG, so I had fun. For years upon years I rotate among these GMs and I start notiing the differences between them. I start to appreciate the second GM (ESB ), and actually use it as my standard that I compare all RPG (movies) to.
Now, after a few years, I hear that GM#1 is starting a fresh new campaign. I decide to give him a try and go back to the "original" GM (TPM) and try a game with him again. Oh god did it suck. It sucked so bad that it left a bad taste in my mouth for playing SW RPG at all. Then, I heard that the GM was trying again (AotC). It had been a few years. I hadn't played in a while. So I decided to give SW RPG another chance. It sucked again.
Do I blame the GM? Absolutely. Can he blame me? Sure. Will I long for the days of other GMs (ESB )? Absolutely.
Its all the same RPG (or storyline). I am allowed to have opinions on who GMs (directs). I am also allowed to hope that I'll find the next SW RPG campaign (ep III) is as good as my favorite GM#2 (ESB ) was.

However. I am not attacking anyone who feels that they like the Lucas movies (except for Lucas himself :) ). All power to them. Congratulations, it looks like you're getting a third.
If you don't enjoy our "venting session", then simply ignore us. Since we have no control to actually get what we want, the only other happiness we can have on this matter is to vent our "unhappiness".

Reverend Strone
29 May 2003, 05:31 PM
We will never agree in this topic, and that's cool, but to stimulate the further progression of a healthy debate (because I must say- the points raised on all sides here have been thought-provoking), I'll call upon Fred's chef analogy to try and illustrate my point.


It is like eating at a restaurant. You get the same thing time and time again from the same chef since he is the only chef you like because as you say, he is the greatest chef in the world, he can do no wrong. Then when the chef switches to a new recipe and you hate the new recipe you now say he is a horrble chef and doesn't need to be preparing food anymore, just because you do not like the new recipe.

When I on the other hand, did not care to much for his original recipe greatly love his new recipe even more now when compared to his original recipe.

It's a matter of perspective I guess. When I look in the kitchen, I see GL twenty years ago in the kitchen as the young head chef with a team of other chefs helping him.- chefs like Lawrence Kasdan, Irvin Kershner and Marsha Lucas (to name a few). When the young and ambitious head chef comes up with a recipe, they all make their contributions, questioning his choice of garnishes and combinations of ingredients because they all want to make a great meal.

Now there's just one chef in the kitchen- GL, with no other cooks to give him their thoughts or senior enough to be listened too. His restaurant is famous for the great food he made last time- only now he's doing it all himself with no one else to help. When this guy's meal comes out and it the patrons don't like it as much as the old one, it's natural to say- well, what's changed in the kitchen?

Anyway- like I said- a question of personal perspective, but that metaphor sums up why I believe the flanneled one should get other folks to help him so he can concentrate on what he does well. SW used to be a team effort by a group of visionary folks, but now it's just one guy leading the charge with so much power no one else can question his calls.

It's human to make mistakes and there's no such thing as a perfect film, but seeing as GL wants to do everything, he has to also shoulder the criticisms that I think audiences are entitled to make.

Fred Getce
29 May 2003, 08:42 PM
I have no problem with anyone who states that they did not like TPM or AOTC as an opinion, but when they make a statement of fact based on their opinion, and their opinion alone, that is where I see red. There is no logic to it and yet people of all walks of life, creed, etc. do this all the time (I am guilty of it in the past, but pretty much know to keep these two cousins far away from one another as best as I possibly can).

As I said before I just reached a breaking point with the amount of posts that start right of stating George Lucas sucks, EPIII will suck because he will direct it, or whatever.

Posters should use proper sentence structure for stating opinions when they are posting their opinion on something.

Start of with "I", or "To me" or "My fellings on this are" or the best choice "My opinion on this is". Always speak in first person. Give your feelings about it, than your reasons for them. Defending your opinion is fine and is expected of you in debates.

Me: "I believe EPIII will be the greatest Star Wars film of all of them and that GL is doing a perfect job with it because he is showing more of the Star Wars galaxy than before and is letting us know that the universe does not revolve around people with the last name Skywalker or Solo."


Holonet Poster: "I hated AOTC because Hayden is horrible as an actor and portrayed Anakin like a carboard cut out. His love scenes were forced and had no emotion to them."

That reads better then

Holonet Poster: "AOTC clones is a horrible movie and Hayden Christian is horrible as an actor and was the worst choice for Anakin Skywalker. The guy needs another 10 years of acting experience and that may not even be enough. The guy couldn't even act out a simple love scene for crying out loud."

To me that is uncalled for, impolite, uncivilized and not needed in a public forum where it could lead to flame wars, hurt or upset feelings, or, hopefully never, physical violence. So that is all I can say. I just saw red with this thread and the way it started off.

To me you cannot blame others for your dislikes in life, but I guess that is just me (unless you are disliking the person themselves but that is beyond the scope of this topic).

Grimace
29 May 2003, 09:42 PM
Fred, I think you need to calm down a little bit. When people write things on here, it is a given that it's opinion, especially with a topic such as this. There is little difference between someone saying:

"AOTC clones is a horrible movie and Hayden Christian is horrible as an actor and was the worst choice for Anakin Skywalker. The guy needs another 10 years of acting experience and that may not even be enough. The guy couldn't even act out a simple love scene for crying out loud."

and someone saying: "My opinion is that AOTC is a horrible movie and that Hayden Christian is horrible as an actor. I think he's the worst choice for Anakin Skywalker...."

Everyone that states something on here, including myself, is stating it as an opinion unless it's a direct statement about a printed item or fact.

So please just realize that there are people who are going to not only disagree with you, but also with what George Lucas does. If the thread makes you see red, please refrain from posting to it until you can post rationally. (I'm not saying that you've done anything wrong, but your tone is one that suggests you're becoming frustrated, so I'm hoping to stop unnecessary hard feelings)

Reverend Strone
29 May 2003, 09:58 PM
Grimace's words not withstanding- I think Fred's point is valid. It's certainly something I have tried to do and will try to do in future, and i think it's worth bearing in mind when posting.

My apologies if in some instances, opinion is presented as fact in any of my posts. That kind of thing irks me as much as anyone. My apologies also if this discussion is getting anyone hot under the collar. That certainly was not my intention as I contributed. As I said, there are some excellent points being made by everyone and I've been enjoying the reading.

Anyway, to avoid fanning the flames of debate to anger, I think I'll time out on this one. It's been fun.

As to the hope that Ep III will be the best of the lot-m well, that's what i've heard from friends on the job, and that's what I'm hoping for.

Thanks all.
:)

Puck
30 May 2003, 05:32 AM
Let's not forget that while the cook has been in the kitchen for 20 years, your palate has changed too! :D

And Fred, I feel your pain mate!

Korpil
13 June 2003, 04:32 AM
TheForce.net published a link to this open letter, it's good!!!

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/entertainment/6078601.htm