PDA

View Full Version : Independant Fleets



Kanner Ra'an
24 May 2003, 04:00 PM
Ok im designing this independant faction and i've finally come to the part about the fleet. Right now i am guessing the fleet would come out to about six thousand ships. This faction has about 150 worlds under its control, and is militaristic. I think this number is reasonable considering refugee said the Yevetha had thousands, and they arn't that big and didn't have that long to rebuild their fleet.

So does six thousand sound reasonable, or have i dreamed up the next superpower.

Armadious
24 May 2003, 09:37 PM
An Imperial sector group during its height consisted of a minimum of 2,400 ships (24 being SDs - and another 1,600 are other capital combat ships - the rest are support ships). I beleive this is counting patrol ships and the like, but not TIE fighters...

Six thousand ships - depending on if they are all capital ships - might be a bit much for an indipendent sector.

wolverine
25 May 2003, 03:46 AM
I agree with Armadious. 600 is more reasonable. That is 4 cap ships per planet.

Admiral Noshow
26 May 2003, 09:31 PM
If its militaistic though won't it want to expand into new areas espeically scince the big players are doging it out between themsevles? THen I guess the question is what kind of society have you build for them? Is everyone wanting expansion? peace? or defense? A little more info and I think we could help you outmore:?

Kanner Ra'an
27 May 2003, 03:28 AM
Well the main race is milieristic, but they have a biological need to dig in their heels and heavly defend their worlds. In general they are defense oriented, but they do expand whenever they can without reprisals from the dominant goverment ie NR, GA, empire.

ElfWord
27 May 2003, 01:19 PM
6 thousand could be reasonable depending on how you sort it out. If you keep the number of capital ships low it could work, a lot of defensive tactics use smaller ships anyways. Maybe have 600 defensive cap ships, with only 150 of those ships being really big cap ships. Then give the main race maybe 100 offensive capital ships. Then figure up space-transport class ships and starfighters, and you could still have a high number without being over-powered. I'd keep it below 3000 though.

Admiral Noshow
27 May 2003, 10:41 PM
Another good question is how old is this civlization? has it had its little empire before the Vong appeared? or was it formed in the absence of the GA? :raised:

Kanner Ra'an
28 May 2003, 03:56 AM
This particular group was formed three thousand years BBY. They were contacted fairly early in history by Duros scouts. For a few hundred years they kicked the cr@p out of each other until they allighned together for mutual protection. Now they are a preety stable goverment.

starkiller210
31 May 2003, 12:49 PM
What size capital ships are we talking about here, star desroyers or blockade runners? 6,000 ships does seem a little high though, thats something around 40 ships per world if I calculate it right.:raised:

Kanner Ra'an
31 May 2003, 02:09 PM
The fleet is a variety like most, but the bulk of it is 300 meter long ships, very similar to strike cruisers. My main justification for such a high count is the number of ships the Yevetha had. They had thousands of thrustships and had nowhere near as much time to build up their fleet as my organization did. Plus they are very dedicated to defense.

Jericho_Narcas
31 May 2003, 03:34 PM
Bear in mind that the Yevetha had a knack for technology to begin with, and they took a hankering to advanced Imperial technology as soon as they were exposed to it. That, coupled with their revolt and the seizure of Imperial possessions in their region, led to the rather speedy buildup of their fleet. Basically, everything was just right for it, and it happened at just the right time.

Under ordinary circumstances, building up a fleet of that size is going to attract someone's attention, and that's not going to be good. Of course, there are a couple ways to solve this problem. One thing you could do is make the majority of the ships starfighter-scale (and possibly lacking hyperdrive capability). Another thing you could do is make these ships of archaic design, with stats that reflect their age. In effect, making them less worthy of notice, so to speak.

Still, six thousand ships is a lot to keep up with. You might want to consider paring the size of the fleet down a bit just for bookkeeping purposes -- you can save yourself some major headaches right there.

Kanner Ra'an
1 June 2003, 06:56 PM
Oh if it makes a differance the goverment is socalist, not democratic. Basically they dont give two tears in a bucket what their own people think/

Lord Byss
1 June 2003, 07:33 PM
6,000 is a huge figure. If you properly disperse them around their territory (in which point total number becomes irrelevant, it becomes number per system / territory) it may be fesable. Always make sure they don't even rival another super power in the slightest though unless you are playing an infinities style campaign. At the end of the day, the Empire / Republic / Whoever should be able to wipe the floor with them...

Kanner Ra'an
2 June 2003, 11:21 AM
Thats actually something i want to avoid. This territory has surrvived because they basically are big enough that its not worth it to take them out. In the end the superpower of the time has the resourses of the galaxy at their desposal, so they could win a war with them. I just dont want them to win the war easily.

starkiller210
4 June 2003, 09:05 AM
Since we are on the subject of fleets.....
I'm developing a pirate fleet and I was wondering how many ships they should have
I was thinking 10-20 small to medium class capital and maybe a vic but that might be to much
15-20 space transports YT-####
4 squadrens of fighters (varius fighters and 2 of the squadrens are uglies)
I know its kinda high, but they are a prominent Pirate group and do a lot of raids on high profile military targets:raised:
Tell me what you think

Jim Williams
4 June 2003, 09:22 AM
Your basic Yevetha T-type thrustship had/has only 8 turbolaser batteries, 4 C-M tubes, and carried forty fighters. It was not a powerful ship by size or class, but it utilized advanced technology particularly in a few areas that made it an extremely nasty ship to battle. Especially in numbers.

If your independent fleet is mostly comprised of ships similar in size to the T-type (about 300m spherical...very "small"), 6000 is not unreasonable. Whether or not those ships are as capable as the T-type is another matter.

Hope that helps.

Kanner Ra'an
4 June 2003, 11:27 AM
Starkiller. Um, a fleet that big would almost be impossible for a pirate group to maintain. You'd need a huge shipyard, and a planet pumping out foodstuffs for your crew. Even if you did have all that this group would have half the galaxy after them. This fleet could concquer a planet. And if they're going after military targets then they will be hunted down and decimated, no dought about it. I would have maybe two or three capital ships (no bigger then a corvette) and possibly two squadrons of fighters. The Yt's would be OK too.

wolverine
4 June 2003, 01:06 PM
If i was making that pirate group, i would give it

1 Lonar strike cruiser OR 1 Carrack
2-3 Correllian corvettes
3-4 squadrons of fighters (mostly uglies)
12-20 freighters
8 boarding transports

At max...

Wedge in Red2
5 June 2003, 04:24 AM
The thing with Pirates is that they don't tend to stick together in groups that big. Think about it. Even if you managed a haul of a million credits, once you split that between 20 capital ship captains they only get 50kCr each. Which isn't much when you have to distribute it amoungst the crew, fighter pilots etc. The gang would have to be doing lots of raids at a time, which would tend to attract the attention of the local enforcement/military.

Remember, Pirates biggest strength is there ability to hide from local forces/manage to be too small a pain to deal with. Such a large force would a) find it difficult to hide, and b) would definitely attract the attention of hostile forces.

The pirate force mentioned at the beginning of Ruin had one capital ship worth mentioning - a Nebulon class B Frigate. Even the pirate forces mentioned in I,Jedi didn't have that many capital ships, and they were meant to represent one of the largest (IMO at least) pirate groups in the galaxy (a collection of gangs in fact IIRC). So your fleet is enormous by comparison.

Anyway, that's my 2cr worth.

Jon

(Edit note: Oops, didn't realise the thread had gone on to a second page. I concur with the points Kanner Ra'an and Wolverine have made.)

Cakhmaim
5 June 2003, 06:27 AM
I geuss the 6000 sounds like alot, but what part of the galaxy are they from? If they are deep in the unkown sector where only the Chiss have mainly played it might work better. The Chiss might have think that it is not worth their time right now to mess with your group. alos whoever is in charge at this point, unless it is when Thrawn is poking his way through there, wouldn't necessarily know. That and I agree with the Yevetha having smaller ships idea too.

Kanner Ra'an
5 June 2003, 06:42 AM
This group is based in the deep core. It is a fairly hard to reach spot, which makes it easier to defend.

wolverine
5 June 2003, 07:47 AM
That's a big slam on it right there. The deep core was practically all imperial. So unless, they had system wide cloaking tech, this big of a fleet WOULD have come to the imperials notice, and unless they had one hell of a negotiation tool, would have been 'acquired' for the good of the empire.. by what ever means necessary.

starkiller210
5 June 2003, 09:42 AM
for the pirate fleet, it would be like a organization split into cells each harassing a different world, but all reporting to the same head guy who gives them supplies for his share of the booty

Kanner Ra'an
5 June 2003, 10:24 AM
That's a big slam on it right there. The deep core was practically all imperial. So unless, they had system wide cloaking tech, this big of a fleet WOULD have come to the imperials notice, and unless they had one hell of a negotiation tool, would have been 'acquired' for the good of the empire.. by what ever means necessary.

Like i said before. These guys just wern't worth it to waste the resourses tp destroy. Plus their are a lot of planets in the deep core, and the empire never controlled all of them. Hell they never even charted the whole thing. That and i wanted to avoid the "Outer rim maruader" feel that is so common. Besides, the empire left the hapans alone.


for the pirate fleet, it would be like a organization split into cells each harassing a different world, but all reporting to the same head guy who gives them supplies for his share of the booty

Again. The cost of maintaining such a fleet would be too high. Some of the biggest pirate fleets had three corvette sized ships, and the fleets rairly work together. Yours is just way to big. And again, if their attacking military targets then they will be anniahaleted. If you want yours to be realistic you got to size it down by like 98%. And that big supplier guy would have been taken out ASAP.

Wedge in Red2
6 June 2003, 05:47 AM
Originally posted by starkiller210
for the pirate fleet, it would be like a organization split into cells each harassing a different world, but all reporting to the same head guy who gives them supplies for his share of the booty

Each harrying one world? I don’t find that viable.

If each arm of this massive pirate group were harrying only one world, they’d quickly either a) be hunted down or b) run out of pickings. If they keep hitting the same place, well, it’s not tough for the military to work out where to lay their ambush. Either that, or the merchant ships they were hunting would just stop going to that destination. That’s why most pirates rove around a lot.

Remember, the aim of piracy is to get rich quick. For a raid to be profitable in a Capital ship, you need to be hitting big targets – bulk transport convoys and the like. Even then, you’re splitting that wealth over a hundred odd crewmen. Where as a small pirate group (20 men) can make a decent return of much smaller pickings – a lone bulk transport, or even a convoy of medium transports.

Plus, once they’ve got the loot, it’s much easier to track down a large stolen shipment than it is a small one. If the large group steals 50 tonnes of steel, and then a ‘mysterious merchant’ is known to be offering good prices on large orders of steel, well it doesn’t take a genius to put 2 and 2 together. Where as smaller cargoes are much harder to be traced.

That’s my 2cr anyway. Which means I’ve put in 4cr so far. Getting a bit too rich for my blood ;).

Jon

Darthspectre84
8 June 2003, 04:30 AM
hmmm.....6000 ships is abit too much for a pirate ship cause all the pirate ships i have seen never go beyond about 5 corvettes. Even the Black Sun i dont maintained that many ships.

The yevetha were an expansionist species who were extreme xenophopbes that make the Empire puppies in the xenophobia department. And they were building up for another Great Purge of the galaxy, and the centre of the galaxy fileld with gravatic distubrances does give advantages :).

The only way 6000 ships could not be noticed was if they were quite small ships, and if they were split in cells they would still be noticed cause those are alot of cells for a lot fo ships. The onyl way they could not be noticed if they were in an extremely isolated spot of the galaxy. Liek a nebule or an unstable region where no one comes, And as far as i know none of those are present in that part of the galaxy. Try dropping it to perhaps 2000 roughly. Just a suggestion.

Ardent
10 June 2003, 12:00 PM
I'd place an arbitrary limit at 10 line defense capital ships per inhabited world. With 150 worlds, that's 1500 capships. Smaller (support) vessels could number almost anything, within reason.

Even the major Imperial naval power centers couldn't boast having more than 100 capships devoted to planetary defense. Remember, sectors have thousands of inhabitable worlds in the Star Wars galaxy...Bakura, which was an obvious target of a world, only had four capships to defend itself with.

Just a little from the side of logic...