View Full Version : Are the Geonosians in on the Sith secret?

Reverend Strone
10 June 2003, 05:34 PM
In watching AOTC, I got to wondering about Dooku's little throwaway comment to Poggle in the war-room when he tells him the DS plans will be much safer with his master.

Up until that point, Dooku had been the leader of the separatists to all the players in Sidious's master-plan. He had manipulated the separatist elements in to taking this bold step against the Republic because it was part of his master's plan to turn the Republic in to the Empire. For all purposes, I would have thought that all the various separtist fgroups would have thought Dooku was who he said he was- a political idealist and former jedi, taking him at his word when he spoke to Obi-wan about Nute Gunray.

I doubt any of them would go along with him had they thought he was a Sith himself, so when he tells Poggle he's taking the plans to his master, who does Poggle think he means? Does this mean Poggle knew all about Sidious and the whole con all the time? If so- what did he think he would gain from it? Or was it simply a scripting error. Lucas did say this was a late addition.


Nova Spice
10 June 2003, 08:30 PM
I doubt any of them would go along with him had they thought he was a Sith himself, so when he tells Poggle he's taking the plans to his master, who does Poggle think he means? Does this mean Poggle knew all about Sidious and the whole con all the time? If so- what did he think he would gain from it? Or was it simply a scripting error. Lucas did say this was a late addition.

I've wondered much the same thing. When watching that scene, it immediately brings to mind the thought that Poggle the Lesser knows exactly who Dooku is, but there is one attributing factor that leads me to believe that the head Geonosian is as clueless as the rest of the Separatists.

In the background, as Dooku is saying this, are Passel Argente, leader of the Corporate Alliance, and Senator Tikkes, the traitorous Quarren who seceded. Why would Dooku say this in earshot of those two? The short answer is that he would not, particularly if the plan was to conceal who was actually running the "show."

The only logical conclusion I have, is that the Separatists are under the impression that another Jedi is helping Dooku, and the only name that pops into my head is Master Sifo-Dyas. Perhaps the Commerce Guilds and Trade Federation believe Sifo-Dyas did not die and is behind the scenes helping Dooku run the Separatist movement. :raised:

Master Dao Rin
10 June 2003, 11:42 PM
I think they are in the secret - from a certain point of view. :D

I'm willing to believe that the Geonosians know as much about the Sith as the Neimoidians did in TPM ... which is to say, as much as they need to know.

Dooku is leader of the CoS.

He approaches Geo's and says join us and we will give you lots of money.

Geo's say show me the money.

Dooku says: "Oh, okay, well there is another faction I'm dealing with, calling themselves The Sith, former Jedi y'know who feel just like us against that nasty Republic and Jedi flunkies. They are bank rolling this little rebellion, and who also want to contract you out for a special job, and my former Jedi master works for them - named Jedi Master Sifo Dyas."

Geo's could care less about the name, and ask how much.

Darth Sidious, in the guise of Sith (former Jedi) Master Sifo Dyas, contacts them personally as a show of good faith and says "As much as you want."

Geo's think they are being clever and name a figure.

Sidious knows better because he's already plotted out six ways to Sunday that, whatever they ask, he's gonna wipe them out of his memory before he has to pay them - so he agrees to the astronomical sum and pays half ... now with an insurance plan to recoup the losses from them and other places.

And everyone is happy, Geo's know about the Sith, Geo's are making super weapon for their alliance, and Dooku is controlling the public strings.

Poor Dooku - such a nice target for Jedi justice ... hohohoho

11 June 2003, 07:26 AM
uh...yeah ok :raised:

I think the Poggle the Lesser knows very little but is kind of ignorant about it. Like its possible he does not know what the Sith are. I dont think he expects anotehr Jedi to be helping the Separists cause well after the abttle they had who would. No, i think he is jsut interested in the money. Does not care of the consequences.

11 June 2003, 09:33 AM
I never even thought of this.

11 June 2003, 11:46 AM
I'm putting this down to scripting error, simply because it sounded out of character for Dooku, who is a very high-and-mighty character. It also seems dangerous for him to let the others know he is in league with the Sith, especially since the Trade Federation got betrayed by Sidious during the invasion of Naboo, and wouldn't take to kindly to being shafted by him again...

That said, it's possible that Poggle may have know Dooku had a master, possibly even a Sith master, but I doubt it would have gone further than that. The more people know about it, the more likely it is more that information to get to the wrong ears, so I doubt he would take the risk, especially since it would cause the Jedi to get involved, in a more pro-active roll.

11 June 2003, 11:57 AM
I think he is, he just doesn't know the magnitude of it. He knows it's a giant weapon, but doesn't know just how powerful, or that they'd even use it! I'd say they consider it a negotiation tool, a bluff. I don't think anyone thinks they'll actually blow up a planet!

11 June 2003, 01:33 PM
I have an additional theory. At that point Dooku might see the writing on the wall. He knows that they have been discovered. No matter the outcome of the battle, foul things are afoot. It is easier for him to slip that up or just not care, so long as he gets the pertinant data to his master. I mean, if you think that the Republic will assault the Geonosians, do you care what they then think? I wouldn't, instead just getting my stuff and bugging out (pardon the pun).

11 June 2003, 03:45 PM
Without getting into the massive "Who is Syfo-Dyas" debate, I'll try to work out my point of veiw on this matter.

Combining some ideas that have been said before, here we go: The Geonosians are hired, not by Dooku, but were probably in some contract with the Trade Federation, and thus were connected to Dooku when Nute Gunray went for Dooku's aid. After all, they had massive facilities and a eputation for building battle droids, and TF ones at that. I think that Poggle knew as much as Dooku wanted him to. Poggle most likely knows that Dooku is a dark Jedi, and probably suspects that he is insructed in the Sith traditions. Poggle also knows that Dooku has a master, and he might think that he is in cahoots with other "Jedi" and "Sith" conspirators (Syfo-Dyas, for example). I belive it is explainable that Poggle doesn't know much more than this, after all, nobody wants to get mixed up with Jedi, or more so with Sith affairs. Looking at the big picture (the Sepratists), I belive that this is a big manipulation scheme on Palpy's part, in that he is bringing down the Republic on all fronts. He knows that the corrupt Senate will at least unite if there is a common enemy, so he plays on the corporate world's feelings of hate towards the Republic to create a Sepratist faction. And...you know the rest.

Just my two credits.:)

12 June 2003, 03:22 AM
interesting summary Atreidies :)
But one thing i want to say is tht it is not necessary he knows that he is a Sith. Its possible that Poggle did not know what a Sith is. Cause they have been "extinct" for a long time. And if the Jedi announced the fact that a Sith was on the loose it might cause some panic.

And another thing is that Dooku had this thing on using reverse psychology. Like he told Obi Wan that there was a Sith controlling the Republic. Using the truth to distort ones perception.

12 June 2003, 04:32 AM
It's important to remember that the entire Death Star project is super-super-secret. Dooku and Poggle say as much. Knowing that lots of the designers under Poggle may have been kept in the dark about exactly what they were doing, it follows that if Dooku trusts Poggle enough to allow him to be one of those very few people who knows about this ultimate weapon, then he may trust him enough to let him in on the big Sith secret. But I do like the idea that Poggle really doesn't understand the significance of Dooku's master being a Sith lord.

Let's also bear in mind that doing work for leaders of military factions who are actually part of some larger plot is probably nothing new to Poggle. His curiosity would only extend so far.