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View Full Version : Potential Ep III Spoilers- Peter Mayhew spills some details?



Reverend Strone
11 June 2003, 06:39 PM
If you aren't too worried about some reasonably big spoilers, follow this link to Aintitcoolnews.com (http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=15425) to hear what Peter Mayhew said recently. Could well be rubbish, or it could be a major slip-up on his part.

For what it's worth, it does happen to match the rumours and speculation I've been hearing. We'll see I suppose.

Codym
12 June 2003, 04:27 AM
I'm dubious, but you never know. At the moment, I'm more interested in what could have happened to cause the situation Mayhew discribed, more than the situation itself. But if this not an misunderstanding on Mayhews part or deliberate piece of misinformation, we may have just had our first big spoiler for Episode III.

Calanthe
25 June 2003, 11:21 AM
http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/tfn.cgi?storyID=21137

See the update at the bottom of the page for further info... seems the person that reported the spoiler just misheard/misunderstood what he was talking about.

cheshire
25 June 2003, 11:47 AM
Okay... read what they said on TheForce.net, and besides that, there are two things working against the credibility of the report. 1) Peter is known for his mischievious nature. I don't really want to be held accountable for what I say about his antics since I can't prove it. Needless to say, I wouldn't put it past him to put out fraudulent information for kicks and giggles. 2) I think people have forgotten that Kenobi said "That boy is our last hope," as though he didn't know about Leia.

fallenbythewayside
25 June 2003, 12:24 PM
...I just have to say I hope not. It's bad enough Darth Vader lived on Tatooine, was actually present at the moisture farm and yet never went looking for Luke. It's bad enough Darth Vader built threepio and yet neither of them seem to remember doing it. It's bad enough Alec Guiness was suddenly mentored by Liam Neeson. But if Chewbacca actually meets Obi-Wan and Luke, then goes off and somehow discovers Han and travels around with him and then they all meet in the cantina like it never happened...for crying out loud, how much campier could Lucas get?

dgswensen
25 June 2003, 12:33 PM
Ben Kenobi specifically seeks Chewbacca out in the Mos Eisley cantina, and knows him by name. After Episode II, it's clear it's not the first time Kenobi walks into a dive and speaks with an old friend who has, shall we say, dubious ties.

That Obi-Wan and Chewie don't know each other from previously is an assumption. Kenobi is a secretive old guy (to say the least) and Chewie only speaks Wookie.

It's not particularly hard to swallow, from my standpoint.

Reverend Strone
25 June 2003, 05:11 PM
I really like the sound of that rationale dg, but if I remember, didn't Kenobi first go to Bo'Shek, who then appears to refer him on to Chewie? That said, it doesn't rule out Chewie and Kenobi knowing eachother- he could have been asking the Corellian if that particular Wookiee was the one he thought he was (they all look kinda alike right?).

dgswensen
25 June 2003, 05:14 PM
Well, I only go by what I see in the movies. I'm assuming Bo'Shek is the balding guy in the spacesuit, right?

Personally, I always assumed Kenobi was asking him for his spot so he could talk to Chewie. But that's me.

Nova Spice
25 June 2003, 06:53 PM
Well, I only go by what I see in the movies. I'm assuming Bo'Shek is the balding guy in the spacesuit, right?

Yea, that's correct. Good ole Bo'Shek; the classic Tatooine spacer. Save for his secret laboratory beneath Mos Eisley....kinda creepy. :raised:

Anyway, yes, Rev is correct. According to more than one information source (including Decipher's now defunct CCG), Obi-Wan first went to Bo'Shek, who in turn recommended the Jedi speak with Chewbacca.

I'm kinda skeptical on Ben meeting Chewie; I guess it could happen, but I have my reservations.


It's bad enough Darth Vader lived on Tatooine, was actually present at the moisture farm and yet never went looking for Luke.

Totally disagree with this statement. I think placing Luke on Tatooine was pure genius. Vader had actively given up his life as Anakin Skywalker; where better to put his son then where he grew up?

There's an old truism concerning enemies and allies that bears some relevance in this instance. "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." ;)

dgswensen
25 June 2003, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Nova Spice

Anyway, yes, Rev is correct. According to more than one information source (including Decipher's now defunct CCG), Obi-Wan first went to Bo'Shek, who in turn recommended the Jedi speak with Chewbacca.

I'm just wondering if these are going to be some of the same information sources whose facts have been repeatedly blown out of the water by the coming of the prequels, such as the constructers of the original Death Star, the identity of Boba Fett, and so forth.

I'm just saying. Those things have had a way of changing lately...

Sasche
25 June 2003, 07:15 PM
I was willing to push off this idea as ridiculous. I didn't believe the idea of Ben and Chewie knowing each other before Ep IV.
But then I saw the comment reminding me how Ben looked at Chewie like he already knew him.
So I really don't have a big problem with the "continuity".

And as for the problem of Ben "not knowing about the twins". Maybe Chewie rescues both children, then delivers Luke to Ben only after dropping Leia off at Alderaan. He never tells Ben the whole story...

Reverend Strone
26 June 2003, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by dgswensen
Well, I only go by what I see in the movies. I'm assuming Bo'Shek is the balding guy in the spacesuit, right?

Personally, I always assumed Kenobi was asking him for his spot so he could talk to Chewie. But that's me.

As Nova said, yep- that's the guy. I hadn't thought about the possibility Ben was asking him to move so he could talk to Chewie, but that's perfectly reasonable in my mind too- and probably fits their body language better now that I think about it.

Like dg, I tend to go by the movies and grant only a vague credibility on the various EU sources, for much the same reasons. He may very well be right about E3 disrupting much of the 'canon' EU assumptions and inventions, much as the last two prequels have done already.

I imagine we really won't know until after E3, and even then there'll no doubt be plenty of room for speculation!

Calanthe
27 June 2003, 01:10 AM
2) I think people have forgotten that Kenobi said "That boy is our last hope," as though he didn't know about Leia.

I took this more as him being focused entirely on Luke, rather than not knowing about Leia. They (Obi-Wan and Yoda) had already invested a lot of time and energy in training Luke, and, if he failed, it would've probably ruined their chances of defeating Vader.

Also, (in EU) Leia doesn't seem to be nearly as powerful in the Force as Luke. While this could've been simply because she didn't focus on honing her powers, it could just be that it doesn't flow as strongly in her.

So I think Ben was more discounting Leia, than showing he didn't know about her. While Leia was indeed "another" chance, I doubt she would've been an equal one.

Calanthe
27 June 2003, 01:17 AM
It's bad enough Darth Vader built threepio and yet neither of them seem to remember doing it.

I've heard this one before, as well as one complaining that Obi-Wan didn't recognize R2-D2.

What people need to remember is that these droid models are common and numerous across the galaxy. It's probably been YEARS since Obi-Wan or Vader saw or gave either of them a thought.

For the most part in the SW universe, droids aren't thought of as being any more special than the family's repulsorlift... they're just a tool, a machine (and Obi-Wan, particularly, never seems to show much interest in droids).

fallenbythewayside
27 June 2003, 09:37 AM
Okay, look, I have to say this. ALL the points made here are really, really good ones. I'm actually quite impressed with the number of connections people have made. I've made a lot of the same ones--I've disregarded most of them, but some of them I can see your point--but it's still neat you're all thinking.

Here's the thing, though. It shouldn't be OUR responsibility to make up explinations. I'm sorry, but that's the sign of a bad filmmaker. We're defending George Lucas's holes and weaknesses as a story teller by overthinking mistakes and bringing in things like EU and crap. Does that make sense? Even though all these points are good--hell, most of them might be completely correct--George Lucas should be falted for making us have to think up excuses for him.

(On a side note, I read a biography on Lucas. The writer of it started out as one of George's defenders--and ended up writing a mostly negative biography about him, becase Lucas is so full of s8o8ot that there isn't much good. If you read it, you might hate him afterward, which I think speaks volumes about his filmmaking ability. I'd be happy to talk about it more, but I suddenly realized this doesn't have much bearing on this conversation. *L*)

And I'm not talking about heavy mystery time. Film and novel makers can very effectively and very neatly create mystery and leave things unexplained. But I think it's obvious that Lucas isn't doing that. There aren't any good writers that I know of who leave the MINUTIA unexplained. That's usually the fun, idiosyncratic stuff.

So while I salute you all in coming up with really cool ideas, I'm just pissed that we have to. I think if Lucas was at all smart he would have people reading these kinds of forums so he could at least steal your ideas to improve on them.

But c'mon, he made Jar Jar. Obviously he isn't as clever as we make him out to be.
:isd:
Regards,

Me: :D

Calanthe
27 June 2003, 11:08 AM
Here's the thing, though. It shouldn't be OUR responsibility to make up explinations. I'm sorry, but that's the sign of a bad filmmaker. We're defending George Lucas's holes and weaknesses as a story teller by overthinking mistakes and bringing in things like EU and crap. Does that make sense? Even though all these points are good--hell, most of them might be completely correct--George Lucas should be falted for making us have to think up excuses for him.

Well, I guess it depends on how you look at it...

One of the things I love about reading novels is the level of interaction between the novel itself and your imagination while reading it; and I think the reason the Star Wars movies are so popular is because it also relies heavily on the imagination of its fans. Rather than trying to stick with "real world physics", or inserting only explicit and exact dialogue that makes everything clear (e.g., Star Trek), Lucas gives us Space Opera, where Truth isn't so clear-cut, and more often than not Truth depends on your "point of view".

So, no, he doesn't explain everything. But, rather than making him a bad film-maker, I think it makes him a good one. He tells us what we need to know to make the story work, and allows us to utilize our imaginations as we feel best to fill in the "open ends" inconsequential to the story; and I definitely feel the issues regarding Obi-Wan saying "That boy was our last hope"--didn't he know about Leia? and why he and Vader don't recognize 3PO and R2, fall into the latter category.

Regarding the necessity of bringing in EU to explain loose ends, that's not the case at all. EU doesn't explain loopholes (except possibly those created in other EU material)--it creates them! If you just look at the movies, these "loopholes" seem much less numerous and significant. It's only when you start trying to fit everything from the dozens of EU novels, hundreds of comics, etc that the loopholes start to get out of hand.

And, hey, all these open ends leave us with the opportunity to try forcing our own explanations on others via forums like this! ;)

Codym
27 June 2003, 11:40 AM
Wow, Episode III isn't out yet and you're making judgements on what is and isn't good writing. Without seeing the film, how do we know what is and isn't explained? Peopled complained about Qui-Gon being Obi-Wan's master and his not disappearing in Episode I, but both points have been covered (the master thing in the opening of Phantom, the disappearing act was based on a bad assumtion by fans.) Is it not fesible that most of your points will be explained in Episode III, which is the logical place to explain such things?

sjard
28 June 2003, 09:18 PM
I personally don't see any problem with any continuity. mainly because i've known since the very beginning that the star wars story isn't science fiction. it's not even squishy science fiction let alone hard SF, it's space opera of a similar vein to flash gordon, buck rogers etc, continuity really isn't important, especially considering 90% of the continuity problems are based in the EU. i've been a star wars fan since i first read the first book i used to be uptight about things like that but then i realized it's not that important, and tends to ruin your enjoyment of the story.

take it for what it's worth.

sjard.

Corwin
29 June 2003, 11:26 PM
I donít see this as a sign that GL is a bad writer and I donít see it as contradicting anything really. The fact is whenever I watched ANH I always thought Obi-Wan and Chewie seemed a bit to familiar to have just met, but I never thought anything off it.

The thing with the driods is a bit more bothersome to me, but I think the answers are in the films. While I havanít seen it, Iíve heard thereís a moment in ESB where Darth Vader stops a strom trooper from shooting Chewie in the back, on which heís carrying the disassembled 3PO.

As for R2D2 you all seem to be forgetting that R2 himself claimed to be the property of an Obi-Wan Kanobi. 3PO seemed to have no idea what he was talking about. It seems that 3POís memory was wiped at some point, since not only did he not remember Obi-Wan, but he also had no recollection of the moisture farm where he spent a good decade of his existence.

Really there arenít any discrepancies major between any of the films, if any. When we let go of some our preconceptions and realize that many of them are based on nothing more then our own speculation we see that every thing fits quite well. The Jedi not disappearing is the best
example of this.

Fred Getce
1 July 2003, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Corwin
As for R2D2 you all seem to be forgetting that R2 himself claimed to be the property of an Obi-Wan Kanobi. 3PO seemed to have no idea what he was talking about. It seems that 3POís memory was wiped at some point, since not only did he not remember Obi-Wan, but he also had no recollection of the moisture farm where he spent a good decade of his existence.

People are really forgetting the most obvious. OBI-WAN AND C-3PO NEVER MET! Watch the movies TPM, AOTC again, if you can, and spot where Obi-Wan is introduced to C-3PO by name (Obi-Wan Kenobi. This is C-3PO Human Cyborg Relations Droid. He is fluent in over 6 million forms of communications). He did hear the name R2-D2 by Panaka, but after 30+ freaking years he isn't going to recognize a droid by sight since R2 is not the only astromech droid in the galaxy painted blue, white and silver (there were two on the queens ship).

Obi-Wan may have been helped by "A" wookie, but never got his name and to humans all wookies look alike unless they have unusual colored pelts. Only a wookie could tell two chocolate haired wookies apart by smell.

As far as I am concerned GL is doing a great job in telling a story of galactic events being shaped and formed by people who may not realize it but are connected in such a way as to be there when they desperately need each other to complete their mission or save each other and restore peace and balance to the universe.

It is the will of the Force (or GL's script take your pick).

Jedi Master Antilles
3 July 2003, 08:55 AM
i doubt chewie helps obi wan...if he did why would he call him an "old fossil" in episode 4 when they're on the death star.ok han calls him the old fossil but chewie said something first that made han make that remark.not something a honorable wookie would say to someone who he had met in his past especially since in episode 4 he knows kenobi's name when they board the falcon.

Reverend Strone
8 July 2003, 05:13 PM
theforce.net (http://www.theforce.net/episode3/index.shtml#21401) have posted an item that reveals a little more on this topic today. Check it out here (http://www.theforce.net/episode3/index.shtml#21401), but as usual, watch out for spoilers. Mayhew also reveals some other information about the role Wookiees may play in Ep 3.

Guru
26 July 2003, 09:11 AM
i heard they are starting a whole other sequel to 4,5, and 6. Makes sense.

Reverend Strone
30 July 2003, 11:03 PM
I'm afraid that's not true Guru. GL has stated out right that Ep III is the last SW film.

Vanger Chevane
1 August 2003, 02:39 PM
Not to bash ya Reverend, but isn't that the exact same thing the Flanneled Emporer said about Episode VI once upon a whim?


If there's enough demand and profitability, there will be Episodes VII, VII, & IX...

dgswensen
1 August 2003, 02:52 PM
Lucas has said that he never had a story set out, much less a script, for VII-IX, and that it was always "much more a media thing" than his own idea.

Plus, when he finishes Episode III he'll be over 60 years old. I don't know if he has it in him to keep doing more SW films.

I mean anything's possible, but I just don't see it happening.

Sasche
1 August 2003, 03:08 PM
Is Gene Roddenberry (sp?) still writing all of the Star Trek movies? Is Ian Fleming the author of the current James Bond films?

Who says that Lucas must be a part of the next films.

Seeing the latest product (ep I and II - which I've discussed on other threads) I think other directors could certainly do at least as good a job as Lucas, and probably better. (but alas, that is another thread)

Unless Lucas (IMO selfishly) hoardes the story and characters and forbids any other movies, who says others couldn't continue the series?

Vanger Chevane
1 August 2003, 03:23 PM
Sasche, Gene Roddenberry died several years ago.

His wife, Majel Barret-Roddenberry (Nurse Chapel in TOS & the voice of most of the ST computers) is now the driving force behind Roddenberry Productions.


I don't think she does any scripting but does a majority of Creative Control.

Sasche
1 August 2003, 03:33 PM
Exactly my poiint.
Ian Fleming was only alive for the first 3 Bond movies (Dr. No, From Russia With Love, and Goldfinger). The next 15 or so movies were based on Fleming stories or novels. But the last few were only based on his characters. I don't know if there is a "Fleming" out there who has "creative control", but I really don't think that matters a whole lot. The Bond movies are being made.

I'm sure George (or eventually his estate - kids, etc.) would retain "creative control". But this doesn't mean that other movies couldn't be made.

dgswensen
1 August 2003, 04:33 PM
Unless Lucas (IMO selfishly) hoardes the story and characters and forbids any other movies, who says others couldn't continue the series?

I have no trouble imagining this scenario at all. Lucas has grown nothing if not increasingly more protective of Star Wars since he started doing the prequels. He let other directors take the helm on the classic trilogy -- not so any of these.

Rick McCallum, along with others, have been asked about this situation in interviews -- most of them have said they wouldn't work with anyone but George Lucas personally.

And seeing what's happened to Trek lately (Enterprise, Nemesis), I'm not sure seeing the franchise pass into someone else's hands is necessarily any guarantee of quality.

Vanger Chevane
2 August 2003, 06:23 AM
Agreed, DG, but there is the small issue of having to satisfy millions of hardcore fans (like us :P) who will not accept some poorly done hack-job of a movie as real SW.


Bout the last thing anyone trying to put together VII-IX will want is to seriously insult the intellect, and buying power of the fandom.

Jar-Jar was bad enough, we don't need a whole movie like that.

Sasche
2 August 2003, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by dgswensen
And seeing what's happened to Trek lately (Enterprise, Nemesis), I'm not sure seeing the franchise pass into someone else's hands is necessarily any guarantee of quality.
Ah, but letting it stay in Lucas's hands is also not a guarantee.

Exhibit A: Jar Jar
Exhibit B: Dialogue which falls second place to most porn movies

So, I didn't want to get into this debate. I've had it before in other threads. So, unless you wish to move to another thread and continue, I'll stop here.

I don't want to hijack this thread.

Church Climbin Ryan
13 August 2003, 07:54 AM
I got tired of reading all your comments, so I'll say only this:

Obi-Wan has to know about Leia because in Jedi he has a conversation about her with Luke.

I suppose that Yoda could have filled him in after Luke left for Bespin... but it doesn't really seem like that's the case. Kenobi seemed to have an intimate knowledge of the situation.

Also, no one said that Chewie knows Ben Kenobi. He could have been a friend of a friend of a friend. There could have been a middle man, and somewhere down the line of baby-passing Obi-Wan Kenobi recieves another one. Or Chewie delivers the kids to Bail Organa on Alderaan, Obi-Wan takes Luke to Tatooine, Chewie's long gone.

Am I making excuses for Lucas? Probably, but I'm explaining how it might work. Alot of the evidence people are using to refute this chain of events is based on assumption, and I'm just trying not to assume anything.

Tramp
14 August 2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Sasche


Who says that Lucas must be a part of the next films.-

-Unless Lucas (IMO selfishly) hoardes the story and characters and forbids any other movies, who says others couldn't continue the series?

Actually, George Lucas and Rick Mccullum have publicly stated on multiple occasions that no one will be allowed to make any more SW movies except George himself; even after his death, and he has no intention of making any more after EPIII. This doesn't rule out the possibilities of TV shows (animated or live action), more comics, or books. In other words, there will definately be no more movies after EPIII.

Church Climbin Ryan
14 August 2003, 10:40 PM
It's for the best. Afterall, look what happened to Terminator 3 when James Cameron didn't direct. It was crap. Thus, Star Wars would likely go even farther down the john than it has with the prequels.

I admit they look better, but they certainly haven't been written better.

Tramp
15 August 2003, 07:00 AM
Hey, I loved T3! 8o Excellent movie IMO. But that's besides the point. I can't say whether a different writer or director would do a better, or worse, job on a SW movie than GL, I'm just saying that it won't happen. GL even stipulated this in his Will.

Sasche
15 August 2003, 12:27 PM
While I haven't seen it myself, I have run into many people who also have loved T3.
Perhaps it wasn't for you. But, of course, if it were up to me, Lucas would have stopped at the original trilogy.
Since he marred the "good name" of the original trilogy by putting out the over produced fluff of Ep I and II, I don't think most other decent producer's could do worse. I know I wouldn't hesitate to pay money to see them in the theaters. While critics and masses might not care for "non-Lucas" movies, it would probably be worth it just for the setting alone!

As to Lucas leagally "disallowing" anyone to continue... well, this is just one more thing which is making me dislike the man. First Ep I & II, now this. Jeez, what an a-hole.

--D

Nova Spice
15 August 2003, 05:05 PM
Sasche, I disagree with ya buddy.

Though Episode I did have some poor dialogue, Episode II was a great film. It was a bit stiff at parts, but so are ninety-nine percent of other films.

And George Lucas has every right to decide he doesn't want others making Star Wars films. He created Star Wars. I mean, think about that statement. He created the galaxy far, far away. Think of everything that Star Wars has become. Movies, video games, card games, novels, comics, toys, and of course an RPG (two incarnations-D6 and D20).

It's almost like a child to him. Let him keep it. It's his decision, and I ultimately admire him for wanting Star Wars to be his. Everyone deserves something to be theirs. Star Wars belongs to George Lucas. ;)

BrianDavion
15 August 2003, 05:28 PM
also we all know damned well that if SW movies where made apart from GL they'd end up being very bad franchise based movies

Sasche
15 August 2003, 06:04 PM
No, frankly, we don't.

I, and likely many others here, am a big fan of many of the SW books out there. While GL might have "final say" as to what occurs in the books, the stories are definitely property of other authors.

And with a new director (one who could direct dialogue which ranks above porn movies) these new stories easily have as much potential to be as good as Ep I & II.

Since this is all theoretical, in my fantasies, without names attached to writers and directors, no one can assume anything. Especially that they would be "bad franchise based movies".

I give GL all of the credit for inventing the galaxy. I give hime the credit for creating Jedis.
I also look down upon him if he selfishly ends the movies here. Just because he is getting old and tired, doesn't mean he can't pass the reins onto someone else.

And if this new movie doesn't live up to GL expectations? What does it hurt you? Nothing. OK, maybe 8 bucks. But, then GL already stole 8 bucks from me on Ep I.
Does it hurt GL? No. Everyone would understand that he didn't have a part with it.
Would a bad movie hurt Ep IV-VI? Of course not. In fact every Jar Jar scene just makes the original trilogy that much better!

So why would you really care if someone else tried to continue? The worst thing that happens is a bad movie is created. Who cares? We would move on.

BUT, what if it turned out to be a good movie? Or, even a great movie?
No one (at least, no fan) would be complaining.