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Jim Williams
14 July 2003, 05:32 AM
I don't mean to go off on a rant her, but...

I think calling someone's hard work "Garbage" is rather insulting.

"Garbage", besides being dismissive and insulting as a descriptive term, falls short in the descriptive category. The politeness of words and phrases like:

insanely powerful
unnecessary
munchkin(y)
gross
ineffective
disgusting
over-the-top
useless
too easy
too hard
too high
too low

is more appropriate even though they convey disagreement or a negative view of a mechanic, ability, etc.

People ought to be more careful with their choice of words, even if they have been around for awhile.

Chris Curtis
14 July 2003, 06:47 AM
No clue what this is in reference to, but I do agree. If Person A posts something (say, stats) that Person B disagrees with, that doesn't mean that Person A is wrong, it just happens that the opinions of Persons A and B don't match.

What's good for one person isn't always good for another and vice versa. Really, this all comes down to common sense and general courtesy -- both of which seem to be in more limited supply than in the past.

Admiral_Atredies
14 July 2003, 09:07 AM
What really gets me going is when someone just plain comes out and says "X is a (insert expletive here) idiot/dumb or jack(not so nice word for a donkey)/whatever. It's one thing if you don't appreciate the work, but don't be so quick to judge the person. After all, you most likely have no idea who he/she really is.


Really, this all comes down to common sense and general courtesy -- both of which seem to be in more limited supply than in the past.

I hear that. Reading this thread got me thinking about Moridin's recent update on forum rules and violations...and its pretty demoralizing. I remember when I came to these boards (which was not too long ago), my first impression was the friendly, accepting, and most of all respectful attitude of everyone around me. Even when an "argument" did ensue, It always remained an intelligent, civil debate between intelligent, civil people, not a size 36 font, all-caps, "X sucks!" flame-fest I've seen on other boards. But now, more people have arrived, some have gone, and Its almost embarrassing to read some of the posts people even dream of putting up here. Moridin's update is meant to get the boards under control, I know, but It's just plain sad that it had to come to this. We don't need another rude SWRPG board, we have WotC for that. Oh well...thanks anyways, Moridin, maybe people will think twice before posting now.

I'm really sorry for the rant, but It's just something that's been on my mind. Anyways, please resume the on-topic rant.:)

Rogue Janson
14 July 2003, 10:43 AM
I don't know, the particular person Jim is talking about is certainly not a newcomer by any means. (he'll remain nameless unless he comes along here, though you could find the thread in question if you wanted to...) I can only imagine it was just a poorly chosen word on his part.

As for Moridin's announcement, well I can't remember ever seeing an announcement in the couple of years I've been coming here.

Every now and then the holonet has a wave of new users, who often take a while to settle in, but I suppose the problems are a bit worse at the moment. Not that I'd say it was bad by any means, but then I'm used to robust arguments, am not easily offended and will just leave any discussion I don't want to take part in.
I don't know how much the announcement is a reaction to a perceived deterioration in manners on the boards, and how much it was simply something the moderators have been talking about and needed to make public.

Well let's see what happens anyway.

(don't mean to hijack your thread Jim, hope you don't mind too much.)

Ardent
14 July 2003, 10:13 PM
Some of us haven't been on our best behavior either, Janson. :x Thus, we shut the hell up. :) Now, on to that...

Master Dao Rin
15 July 2003, 12:23 AM
Hey, I love the word garbage! Don't trash the word garbage, mister!

:D

Its very descriptive - you just have to use your imagination, thats all! :hansolo:

Honestly, I haven't seen any "degrading" of the boards here of late - and I've never seen an announcement before. I think Moridin is just doing a preemptive strike sorta deal here ...

Chris Curtis
15 July 2003, 08:24 AM
I don't know how much the announcement is a reaction to a perceived deterioration in manners on the boards, and how much it was simply something the moderators have been talking about and needed to make public.

It's a bit of both.

There most certainly has been a rash of both specific users and individual posts from otherwise fine users that have lowered the overall quality of experience when visiting the forums. It's not a sudden, definite thing, but it's been happening over the last 6 months or so.

The new announcement (there have been others in the past, BTW) is an attempt to make sure everyone knows what's going on and is also meant to serve as a wake-up call to everyone (regular users, moderators, etc.) to always think before you post something.

Ravager_of_worlds
15 July 2003, 09:06 AM
I agree with Jim , the post in question was extremely harsh. I'd also have to agree with Rogue Janson that maybe the veteran holonetter had a bad day or something.

The holonet was a good place to get an informed opinion and "constructive criticism." That's the thing Jim was asking for in his thread (I believe). I appreciate your ideas and I hope you didn't have a bad day because of this "garbage business." I've noticed that some people are "infected" by a bad day and they infect others with it. Stop the cycle, but venting is certainly good.

Jim Williams
15 July 2003, 09:06 AM
Just for the record this instance that ruffled my feathers falls outside of the behavior that provoked Moridin's announcement regarding serious flaming issues, trolling, etc. IMO anyway.

Nova Spice
15 July 2003, 07:11 PM
I've been gone a couple of days, but I believe I know what thread and user you all have referred to. IMO, this person simply used the first word that came to mind in an honest opinion of what he/she thought.

Granted, the choice of word may not have been the best, but I do not think it was out of any disrespect for someone. And as far as I'm concerned, we should let bye-gones be bye-gones.

Isn't that the friendly spirit of the Holonet? :)

Dr_Worm
16 July 2003, 01:20 PM
GARBAGE! wow...I do not know the particular thread, but that is harsh. I pretty much stick to the holonet, but recently have been exploring other boards to see if the stories everyone says about them is true, and sadly it is. I often disagree with a post, or just plain don't like it, but I also try to understand the reason behind it. I then only reply if I feel I can add something to the discussion, not just "I really think this is a bad idea." I have done that in the past but try not to.

There are even people on these boards who I who I ususlly don't agree with, but Iread their posts anyway because a variety of point of view is the key to a healthy community.

I like Moridin's catch phrase (or is it Grimace's): If you feel you need to qualify your reply with "this is not meant as a flame" or "no offense but..." then you probalbly shouldn't post it. I have seem people defend themselves by saying "I am not here ot make friends, I will defend my posittion." If you are willing to defend your postion at the EXPENSE of friends in this community, perhaps you ought to re-think you place in that community.

This is still the best place on the web for SW disussions. Heck Vixen and others are so happy with it that they have begged for other games to be represented here as well.

dgswensen
16 July 2003, 01:34 PM
No matter how you slice it, calling something "garbage" is not a useful critique or an insightful thought to apply to someone else's work. Whoever did that should have thought twice or waited until they had something substantive to add. Basically, if it wasn't meant outright as an insult, then it served no purpose at all and shouldn't have been posted.

Just my two cents.

Master Dao Rin
16 July 2003, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Dr_Worm
I like Moridin's catch phrase (or is it Grimace's): If you feel you need to qualify your reply with "this is not meant as a flame" or "no offense but..." then you probalbly shouldn't post it.

Unfortunately, the people that say that are the ones conscientious enough to be thinking of other people's feelings to write something like that, so they usually aren't the ones to worry about. Its the ones that don't say that and post anyway I think are the problem ...

Life is so weird ... :rolleyes: :D

Puck
17 July 2003, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by Rogue Janson
... but then I'm used to robust arguments, am not easily offended and will just leave any discussion I don't want to take part in.

Just to go off on a little tangent - but it relates to the whole courtesy thing.

just leave any discussion I don't want to take part in <- words to live by people!

Sometimes it's better to show just how mature you are, rather than participating in a flamewar.

I now return you to your regularly programmed thread...

Lord Kjeran
17 July 2003, 09:02 AM
Chello!

[humor with Leia voice]

You posted that garbage here? You're braver than I thought!

[\humor with Leia voice]

Seriously, though, I love the SWRPG Forum. I don't post that often but I read a lot of the threads and really like the place. After 8 years on the Net, I've seen a lot of "troll" dens and I'm glad that this place has stayed nice. Gamers can flame better and oftener than most IMHO...glad it's stayed out of here and Drgonsfoot (the other board I enjoy).

So, play nice, sentients. :)

Tony

mojo1701
22 July 2003, 03:54 PM
This thread has been saying everything I've ever believed! Thank you, all!