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Remus Lightforce
16 July 2003, 09:11 PM
Where is he in the NJO books? I've only read the first two of the Yuuzhan Vong series, and a few of the Bacta Wars ones, so I might have missed him =p. Anyway, he's a great character, and I wish they would have him in the NJO novels more often.

Nova Spice
16 July 2003, 09:48 PM
Where is he in the NJO books? I've only read the first two of the Yuuzhan Vong series, and a few of the Bacta Wars ones, so I might have missed him =p. Anyway, he's a great character, and I wish they would have him in the NJO novels more often.

If you're only on Dark Tide II: Ruin, then you have a long way to go before the Jedi Outcast is mentioned. He's mentioned only once in the New Jedi Order series in Force Heretic I: Remnant. That's the fifteenth book for all you number-crunchers out there. ;)

There's still two more books due out in the NJO series. He might make an appearance before it's all said and done.

Arkadin
17 July 2003, 08:03 AM
Where the heck is Streen? I don't think he's been mentioned once in the whole series. True, he was old and could have even passed away for all we know, but damn, no one's mentioned him at all. And as one of Skywalker's very first students, you'd think he'd rate even a mention here or there.

Nova Spice
17 July 2003, 06:56 PM
Actually, Streen is in Agents of Chaos I: Hero's Trial. He volunteers to meet with Elan and Vergere because he feels that their "insistence to meet with the Jedi" is a trap.

He is also mentioned in Edge of Victory I: Conquest by Kam Solusar. Apparently he was making a supply run when the Peace Brigade attacked the Academy.

So he's in the NJO, just not a prominent character. ;)

Arkadin
18 July 2003, 06:13 AM
Thanks, Nova...I completely missed those references. Will have to go back and make some more notes...and work on my memory retention while I'm at it.

In the meantime, if anyone who has the ear of someone at Lucas Books reads this:

Bring Back Streen!

Nova Spice
18 July 2003, 11:25 AM
Anytime Arkadin. ;)

I actually try to pride myself in knowing as much as possible about the New Jedi Order for these forums. That way, I can join in on discussions, answer questions, and put out my theories on the many threads about the series. :)

Wedge in Red2
21 July 2003, 04:23 AM
Yeah, Nova is one of our resident experts. The number of times I've had to call upon his expertise... well, if we had to count them, we could be here all day :D.

Jon

Remus Lightforce
3 August 2003, 09:25 PM
Two more after Force Heretic I? Are you sure?

I've read up to Edge of Victory II: Rebirth now, but in the timeline it shows that there are two more after Force Heretic III, The Final Prophecy, and The Unifying Force.

Don't spoil anything past Rebirth for me right now...man, I have a long way until Force Heretic I. I hope Kyle is at least somewhat significant in it...

I'm so frustrated, someone mentioned that Maarek Stele is mentioned somewhere in Dark Tide I: Onslaught (which page again?), but it seems to have curiously disappeared. Grrr....

Wedge in Red2
4 August 2003, 04:38 AM
Originally posted by Remus Lightforce
Two more after Force Heretic I? Are you sure?


I think you've mis-read what Nova posted, Remus. Nova said there were 2 more books out from NOW, as in after FH3 has come out. The reference to FH1 was just in regard to when Kyle Katarn was mentioned.

I hope that clears things up.

Regards,

Jon

Remus Lightforce
5 August 2003, 10:28 PM
I can see not having Maarek Stele in the NJO (although I still think he deserves a somewhat significant role), but to almost completely disregard the existance of a person as important as Kyle Katarn is almost...well....heresy!

Think of everything he brought the the Star Wars EU timeline. I mean, we're talking about the guy who stole the Death Star Plans, shut down the Dark Trooper project, stopped a raving band of Dark lunatics, and saved Luke Skywalker's academy.

That last part being the most important. Katarn saved Skywalker's academy. This isn't worth mentioning?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

.../end fuming>

Nova Spice
6 August 2003, 09:43 AM
There's some points you're missing Remus.

-The New Jedi Order has almost exclusively focused on the Solos and Skywalkers, using supporting characters from their pasts, as well as supporting characters that are new. Kyle was the Jedi outcast; the rogue; the renegade. His Jedi training was based on whimsy at best, which means his loyalty to the Jedi comes after his loyalty to himself. Putting him in the storyline woulnd't make too much sense, considering his only real relationship with the main cast is with Luke.
-After defeating Desann, Kyle settled down and married Jan Ors. He volunteered to teach combat techniques at the Academy, but his active role in the end of the Galactic Civil War diminished to near-nothing.
-By putting Kyle into the storyline, the authors would be falling into a trap. They'd be forced to go with subplots involving him that detracted away from the main cast. This would result in poor-storytelling.
-With Kyle's only tie to the main cast being Luke, it makes him a dime a dozen. Nearly all the supporting characters, in some way or another, have a tie to Luke, Han, or Leia. In other words, it'd just be another name.

I was, however, glad to see him mentioned in Force Heretic I: Remnant. It helps create a sense of the galaxy as a whole combating the Yuuzhan Vong. Another nice addition to the series was Keyan Farlander (the star of the X-wing game). His commanding of the Fourth Fleet in Destiny's Way was a nice touch.

As far as Maarek Stele goes, I think having him in command of the Imperial Remnant's starfighter forces would be another good inclusion.

Remus Lightforce
6 August 2003, 10:51 AM
I'm going to have to disagree, a brief flashback on the part of Luke would be all it takes for Katarn to come to his (or the Academy's) aid at some point in the story. Like what they did for Zekk. A brief flashback, and he's right in the story. Not a main character to be sure, but at least noticable.

I'm only in the middle of Star by Star, but Katarn's name should be on that list of wanted Jedi, too. Anyone who ever had any training at all in Skywalker's academy is wanted.

Nova Spice
6 August 2003, 01:24 PM
I'm not saying Kyle isn't involved in the war effort. He's mentioned as missing in Force Heretic I: Remnant. This tells me he's out fighting the Vong.

Knowing Kyle Katarn, he's gone off on his own (with Jan), to handle the war on his own terms. He's always been the rogue and I doubt he changed after Sernpidal blew up.

I'm guessing he's undercover and behind enemy lines, right in the thick of it. Despite this obvious point, I don't think it would've made sense to bring him in thus far, in the storyline.


Like what they did for Zekk. A brief flashback, and he's right in the story. Not a main character to be sure, but at least noticable.

Well Zekk wasn't alone in returning to the Jedi. As Jaina mentioned in Star by Star, he had been flying refugee transports. That, as you said, gives a brief flashback of what he had been up to. In Star by Star, almost the entire cast from the Young Jedi Knights series appeared. This, IMO, was when the series hit the axis of its title (the New Jedi Order). Zekk, Tenel Ka, Lowbacca, Raynar, and Lusa (despite her death) appeared in Star by Star. That novel was when the story shifted to the new generation of Jedi. That's why Zekk was brought in to the story.

There's not a logical reason for bringing Kyle in; not yet, anyway. I do think that in The Unifying Force, the final battle will involve everyone. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kyle mentioned in the battle. He's just a background character and I think it's best that, outside the Dark Forces games, he stay that way. That's partly why people like him. He's a hero all on his own. He doesn't have to lean on Luke for heroic status. ;)

Remus Lightforce
6 August 2003, 04:58 PM
Curse my 15 year old patience. There's so many distractions I can't get myself to finish <I>Star by Star</I>. It's so much longer than the other books. Usually finishing a book gives me a good encouragement to start the next one, but this one is so much longer...

Well, whatever. I'm going to finish it by tomorrow noon, for sure...still a long ways until Force Heretic III, though. I suppose it's best that way, though, maybe <I>The Final Prophecy</I> will come out by the time I'm there. When is it due out? Ditto with <I>The Unifying Force</I>.

Anyway, I can understand what you're saying, Nova. I'd just like the authors to humor me every once in a while with a reference to what Katarn is doing (or what it is 'reported' that he is doing) in the galaxy. Just a quip every few books about "Katarn's been causing trouble on (planet)' or something. That's all it would take to content me.

Nova Spice
6 August 2003, 05:14 PM
Curse my 15 year old patience. There's so many distractions I can't get myself to finish Star by Star. It's so much longer than the other books. Usually finishing a book gives me a good encouragement to start the next one, but this one is so much longer...

Haha. Well I understand. Although Star by Star had me so hooked that I read it in one night. With this in mind, you might want to tread lightly in my new thread. I don't want to give away any spoilers to you. ;)


Well, whatever. I'm going to finish it by tomorrow noon, for sure...still a long ways until Force Heretic III, though. I suppose it's best that way, though, maybe The Final Prophecy will come out by the time I'm there. When is it due out? Ditto with The Unifying Force.

The Final Prophecy is due out in October.
The Unifying Force is due out in November.


Anyway, I can understand what you're saying, Nova. I'd just like the authors to humor me every once in a while with a reference to what Katarn is doing (or what it is 'reported' that he is doing) in the galaxy. Just a quip every few books about "Katarn's been causing trouble on (planet)' or something. That's all it would take to content me.

I read ya. Although with so many characters and plot twists, it's hard for the authors to cover everything. ;)

Master Bob
8 August 2003, 03:04 PM
Maybe we'll find out the long term future of Kyle in Jedi Knight III.

Remus Lightforce
19 August 2003, 09:46 AM
Halfway through Force Heretic I: Remnant right now...

Still no mention of Katarn. Hmm...I want to finish them all so I can safely participate in the discussions! =P.

Nova Spice
19 August 2003, 04:19 PM
Still no mention of Katarn. Hmm...I want to finish them all so I can safely participate in the discussions! =P.

Um, heh, you can't be halfway through Remnant and not have seen Kyle mentioned.

I suggest you turn to pg. 21 and check out the top paragraph. I think you'll find your Katarn reference there. ;)

Remus Lightforce
19 August 2003, 08:03 PM
I just came here after finishing Heretic to ask you for a page number, convinced I'd missed it. But it makes sense, I suppose. I started the book on a bumpy car ride, I must have missed it. The reference suggests that Katarn is normally at said Jedi meeting, but I never see any input or acknowledgement of his existence in them...darn! It frustrates me! To be hinted at being a member of Luke's advisory Jedi council, but only be mentioned once, and, from what I've heard, not at all in Heretic II and III....

Oh well...I hope you're right about everyone being involved in <I>The Unifying Force</I>

Well, two more books until I can safely contribute to the conversations here...I suppose I'll start the second Heretic tomorrow.

(Moderators note: this portion of this post has been deleted, as it is repeated inthe General forum - click here (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=156110#post156110) to view.)

Hey, that belongs in the thread I made in the General Forum...well, cut&pasting time, then!

Wedge in Red2
19 August 2003, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by Remus Lightforce
Hey, that belongs in the thread I made in the General Forum...well, cut&pasting time, then!

The operative word there being "cut". Not copy. To quote the forum rules:


Posting the same thing in more than one forum (crossposting) is not allowed. Post it in the most relevant forum unless you have permission from the administrator.

I've taken the time to delete that portion of the post which was duplicated in the general forum.

Have a nice day.

Jon

Ardent
21 August 2003, 11:28 AM
Ehh, just to dissent with you there, Nova. I don't think the "final battle" if there is one at all (something tells me no) will involve "everyone."

I think Kyle's role in the Star Wars continuity has been somewhat damaged by a couple of botched plotlines (notably MotS -- which makes absolutely no sense and ought to be considered Infinities) and the overall flow of JK2. I have a feeling a lot of that will be corrected with JK3, but, eh, I probably won't know for a year if they do end up delaying it to first quarter 2004.

As far as Maarek Stele goes, I think he was Michael A. Stackpole's responsibility to use, and there really wasn't an opportunity for him to use him. Another author using him would probably be bad form unless Stackpole had somehow worked a reference in. So I don't think Stele will be mentioned in the NJO.

Remus Lightforce
21 August 2003, 01:30 PM
Yes, MotS was just horrible.

Rebellion-era EU heros times are running out...Katarn would be, what, 55 years old already? Not much of a chance of him or Stele being in the series after NJO (speaking of which, have they announced a series after NJO?).

Jedi_Staailis
21 August 2003, 01:47 PM
I have a feeling a lot of that will be corrected with JK3, but, eh, I probably won't know for a year if they do end up delaying it to first quarter 2004.
The game has gone gold, so there should be no more delays (I certainly hope not, anyway, how could they delay it now?), and it's slated to release in mid-September.


Yes, MotS was just horrible.
I liked it quite a bit. The Mara levels were fun, and the multiplayer was entertaining. Plus it gave gamers the chance to play some truly amazing fan made SP mods. :)

Nova Spice
21 August 2003, 02:31 PM
Ehh, just to dissent with you there, Nova. I don't think the "final battle" if there is one at all (something tells me no) will involve "everyone."

I don't know, Ardent. I honestly believe the final battle in The Unifying Force will involve the entire Galactic Alliance against the entire might of the Yuuzhan Vong. While I realize not every major character will be mentioned, I think it's highly plausible that they will be involved in some way, form, or manner.

If the Jedi Knights do come together for the final battle, and I think it's likely, I wouldn't be surprised to find a Katarn reference.

As far as MotS, I never played the game and always assumed it was a cheap gimmick for playing as Mara Jade.


Not much of a chance of him or Stele being in the series after NJO (speaking of which, have they announced a series after NJO?).

Yes, Troy Denning (author of Star by Star), has been signed on to write a post-NJO trilogy. I have also heard rumblings that Timothy Zahn might be writing post NJO novels as well.

Kyle Pantrakahs
22 August 2003, 03:00 PM
Since Kyle hasn't been mentioned much, I've been developing some fan fic about what he's doing. (Haven't really written anything but ideas as of yet, though.) I like to think he's formed some sort of elite strike team and is constantly annoying the YV and finding out more of their weaknesses. After all, an issue of "Insider" awhile back said he was developing tactics against the YV.

Ardent
22 August 2003, 04:09 PM
I don't think anyone doubts that Kyle has taken the fight to the Yuuzhan Vong. One of the key elements of being a successful martial arts instructor is demonstration of your skills to students, and there's really no way a lot of the NJO Jedi would know about Kyle's exploits or have seen many/any of them first-hand or second-hand.

Kyle prefers to work alone, however, with the exception of Jan Ors' company as his pilot and lookout.

Remus Lightforce
22 August 2003, 11:25 PM
Okay, so they won't do it, but still, it would be cool...

They could make an e-book! They have little impact on the story (Why did I bother reading <I>Recovery</I>, again? Well, <I>Ylesia</I> was okay), but they're a part of it!

They could title it <I>Outcast</I> or something. It would be about what Kyle has been doing in his fight against the Vong. The galaxy's a big place, I know they could find some way to sneak it in between Heretic III and Prophecy.

Of course, we all know they wouldn't do that, and even if they would, it's too late. But it's a neat thought....