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View Full Version : Confusion over Imperial ships in Force Heretic I



Master Bob
8 August 2003, 03:34 PM
In the Thrawn duology the the imperial fighters mentioned were mostly
preybird fighters and tie interceptors.

But in Remnant the only fighters mentioned are the old tie fighters.

There is also no sign of the ssd from Destiney's Way and no sign
of any new ship designs.

Has the Empire just gone crazy and doesn't no how to build new ships? :raised:

Rogue Janson
8 August 2003, 04:23 PM
The preybird is actually generally considered inferior to the TIE fighter. The reason the Empire used them in the Thrawn duology was because they were getting them in a dodgy deal with some pirates. By FH, in some ways they've got their act together a bit more and are building their own TIE fighters.
The absence of interceptors is a little odd, though iirc, it often just talks about "TIE squadrons" rather than mentioning the model. The exception being the TIE fighters on the dreadnaught, which were meant to be old anyway.
Even if they were TIE fighters,you could imagine that they're upgraded versions - that in the same way the E-Wing never truly succeeded the X-Wing, the Interceptor did the same with the /ln.

I don't imagine the Empire has developed many new ships, though they may have seriously upgraded and retrofitted their existing designs. I certainly don't imagine they'd come up with any major new capital ship designs, since these are very expensive, and the Imperials are traditionalists at heart anyway.

One thing I do think is an outright mistake is one passage where it says that because the TIEs only had lasers, they couldn't stutter fire.

Don't know what happened to that SSD though.

Nova Spice
8 August 2003, 04:37 PM
Janson's assessment is correct. By the time Force Heretic I: Remnant occurs, it has been nearly ten years since the Thrawn Duology. The Empire has had time to rebuild, rearm, and reform. My opinion is that the TIEs mentioned in the novel are a mixture of highly upgraded TIE Fighters and TIE Interceptors.


One thing I do think is an outright mistake is one passage where it says that because the TIEs only had lasers, they couldn't stutter fire.

I think the author was trying to convey that TIEs cannot stutter fire because they have only two lasers. That makes more sense I think.


Don't know what happened to that SSD though.

You can guarantee that the SSD will show up in The Unifying Force. I imagine that it's probably guarding the Empire's last remaining shipyard at Yaga Minor. Don't be surprised when Pellaeon brings it into action in the final battle. It'll be there, I'm sure.

Master Bob
8 August 2003, 04:57 PM
I guess your right I just hope the Empire doesn't lose its identity as
a sovereign power now that the've joined the Galactic Alliance:)

Corwin
8 August 2003, 09:22 PM
While I havanít read past Vector Prime, Iím just wondering where the New Class New Republic ships are? In Vector Prime the big ship in the NR task force was an ISD. I thought the New Republic only had two of those, which were long ago destroyed.

Are there metion of ships such as the Republic-class Star Destroyer and Endurance Fleet carrier later on, or did the NJO writers get sloppy when it came to continuity and the New Republic Navy?
:raised:

Rogue Janson
9 August 2003, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by Nova Spice
[B]I think the author was trying to convey that TIEs cannot stutter fire because they have only two lasers. That makes more sense I think.

Certainly makes more sense (ie more than none at all), though I still think it's a bit odd, since all stutter fire involves is converting the lasers to fire rapid low power blasts.


originally posted by Corwin
While I havanít read past Vector Prime, Iím just wondering where the New Class New Republic ships are? In Vector Prime the big ship in the NR task force was an ISD. I thought the New Republic only had two of those, which were long ago destroyed.

Are there metion of ships such as the Republic-class Star Destroyer and Endurance Fleet carrier later on, or did the NJO writers get sloppy when it came to continuity and the New Republic Navy?
The NR got plenty more ISDs as new members brought them in, Imperials defected etc. And since they do control Kuat, they can build their own. New ships do show up - though the Endurance Fleet Carrier doesn't - Republic class SDs are prominent in Destiny's Way. There are also Bothan Assault cruisers, Ranger gunships and a couple more new types.

Darthspectre84
9 August 2003, 04:38 AM
The Viscount Stardefender, Mediator class cruiser and Bothan Assault Cruiser are the new ships introduced to the NR.

As for the Republic Class Stardestroyer....i think they were mentioned in the Black Fleet Crisis. As was the Endurance Class Carrier.

I am abit surprised myself that not many new Imperial designs are seen but one must also remember that the Remanant is a Shadow of its former power. They dont have the resources they had a long time ago :)

And i dont think we have ever see a detailed fight between TIE fighters and Coralskippers. Well besides *cough* FH1 *cough*. But that was like ahlf way across the battle wasnt it? Only reason i am asking cause of the stutter fire ability as mentioned in the above posts.

Rogue Janson
9 August 2003, 04:59 AM
The TIEs are described as concentrated their fire on the skips, rather than using stutter fire.

The Imperial Remnant barely has the resources to maintain and keep its original ships up to date, let alone design and build new ones. Btw, in FH1, the Right to Rule is described as older and out of date, demonstrating that the ISD designs have been upgraded and/or retrofitted with newer systems.

wolverine
9 August 2003, 05:40 AM
What about the black fleet and their SSD which went to the imperials in the core at the end of the crisis? where are they, or is that ssd the one paleon has?

Darthspectre84
9 August 2003, 07:19 AM
I remeber reading that in the Black Fleet crisis the Yevethan upgraded a ISD to a SSD, the Pride of Yevetha. And at the end the Imperial slaves made the ship jump...and later it was found badly damaged...a wreck on the border of the Unknown Regions. Beyound that i am not really sure what happened to the rest. Perhaps they were sold or joined separate Imperial leaders. Cause i think the Black Fleet Crisis is before the peace treaty with the Remanant isnt it?

Vanger Chevane
9 August 2003, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by Rogue Janson

Certainly makes more sense (ie more than none at all), though I still think it's a bit odd, since all stutter fire involves is converting the lasers to fire rapid low power blasts.


The NR got plenty more ISDs as new members brought them in, Imperials defected etc. And since they do control Kuat, they can build their own. New ships do show up - though the Endurance Fleet Carrier doesn't - Republic class SDs are prominent in Destiny's Way. There are also Bothan Assault cruisers, Ranger gunships and a couple more new types.

It is harder to do an effective stutter pattern similar to a machine gun with 2 as opposed to 3 or 4 lasers, but A-W's also only have one pair of guns.


I don't think it's Kuat as much as having the support of the Sluis Van and Fondor shipyards. The SSD Executor was built at Fondor, implying no small capacity there, while the Lusankya was built by KDY.



It'd be grossly irresponsible of Supreme Commander Pellaeon to not only continue to upgrade the ship & fighter designs in his fleet, but upgrade and expand the shipyards & Sienar facilities the Empire still controlled securely.

I don't think they'd be doing a lot of business with Fondor or Sluis Van, KDY couldn't be the primary shipyard for the Empire without seriously risking a whole host of problems with the New Republic.

Master Bob
9 August 2003, 08:25 AM
I read that KDY still keeps close ties with the Remnant. With that and
and the rescources the imps could tap in the unknown regions youd think they would have at least one new ship.

After all the rebels did better with far less rescources.

Ardent
10 August 2003, 01:45 PM
Erm, I don't remember the name of the Black Sword Command's SSD but I believe it's been accounted for in the NJO and it's not the SSD orbiting Bastion.

What confuses me is why it wasn't in orbit around Bastion when Bastion needed it. I, for one, can't fathom that, nor can I even reason out a plausible excuse. The Remnant has at least two SSDs and neither one was at Bastion. Seems perilously unlikely to me. Bastion and Yaga Minor are the hardpoints of defense for the Remnant, so strategy and logistics demand they garner the more powerful defensive fleets. Although it's one of those idiosyncracies you just try to put out of your head.

I think the Remnant makes use of a TIE that's roughly analogous to a TIE Advanced, sans a few things (hyperdrive, some speed etc). The explanation for why TIEs can't stutterfire is criminally weak. I tend to ignore it and chalk it up more to limited time & resources.

Darthspectre84
10 August 2003, 02:13 PM
Ardent the SSD in Black Fleet Crisis was originally an ISD, and i think it was called Intimidator or something.

As for the SSD's not guarding Bastion.....its possible that they were so lazy and thought the Yuuzhan Vong would never attack them. Or its possible they were sent to help the Chiss, cause it was said that at this time the Chiss got under increasing attacks from the Yuuzhan Vong

Nova Spice
10 August 2003, 02:34 PM
What confuses me is why it wasn't in orbit around Bastion when Bastion needed it. I, for one, can't fathom that, nor can I even reason out a plausible excuse. The Remnant has at least two SSDs and neither one was at Bastion. Seems perilously unlikely to me. Bastion and Yaga Minor are the hardpoints of defense for the Remnant, so strategy and logistics demand they garner the more powerful defensive fleets. Although it's one of those idiosyncracies you just try to put out of your head.

There's two possible explanations for their absence.

-The vessels were being refitted or repaired at another facility (maybe Valc VII, Moff Crowal's world) and were unable to arrive at Bastion or Borosk in time, due to the Vong's blitzkrieg attack.

-The vessels were destroyed before Luke, Mara, and Jacen arrived. They very well could have been the first target's of Vorrik's assault on Bastion. And considering the sizable force that hit Bastion and hit it quickly, this very well could have been possible. Especially now that we know there were Vong spies aboard Imperial vessels. These spies could have sent information back to Vorrik concerning their location; remembering the lesson at Borleias that was in the form of Lusankya.

Other than those two explanations, I honestly cannot imagine why they were not present. Hopefully an explanation will be given in the next two novels. ;)

wolverine
11 August 2003, 03:00 AM
Actually it was not an ISD but an SSD. When i get home, i will post the correct passage from the Crakens threat dossier, Darthspectre84..

And i thought no one from Borleas survived to report what wedge did with the Lusankya

Rogue Janson
11 August 2003, 03:08 AM
I found one example of how the Empire's ISDs have been upgraded. FH3 describes the TIEs launched by two star destroyers as in the hundreds and it mentions the Chimaera having over a hundred (I think "hundreds" in fact, though I'm not sure).

Jim Williams
11 August 2003, 06:01 AM
The SSd commanded by Viceroy Nil Spaar was always an Executor-class SSD, and it sported the deflector shield generator atop the bridge superstructure as an upgrade over the pre-Endor model.

I too have heard the escaping SSD of the Black Fleet was found wrecked in the Unknown Regions. Perhaps they stumbled across the Yuuzahn Vong and were decimated in detail. Man, those escaping Imperial crews wouldn't stand a chance. Minimal crews on the ships, etc., no TIE fighter support, surprise at the Vong biotech...

As far as Star Destroyers, it seems to me we get a lot generic use of "Star Destroyer" and sometimes a little detail like the ISD Mark II in Vector Prime. So a Star Destroyer could mean (depending on who owns it) an ISD or a NRSD.

wolverine
11 August 2003, 11:36 AM
According to the Black Fleet crisis portion of the Thread Dossier, they all jumped into the Deep core. The SSD Intimidator (renamed Pride of Yevetha) wasthe main ship. That and 60 other capital ships left the battle of N'zoth..