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View Full Version : "I think Count Dooku is behind it"...um, why???



Reverend Strone
11 August 2003, 02:58 PM
Something that has bothered me ever since seeing AOTC is a line from Padme in Palpatine's office near the begiining of the film. I've tried to figure it out ever since and just can't get my head around it.

After the attempt on her life, Padme is talking with the politicians and Jedi in Palpatine's office about who is responsible for the attack when she says, "I think Count Dooku is behind it."

Um, excuse me, but why on Coruscant would she think that?

Dooku is the leader of teh Separatist movement who want to secede from the republic. Half the Republic members want to go to war with him over this to prevent the secession. Padme is the leader of the Opposition movement trying to prevent them from doing that, so why, oh why would Dooku want her dead??? She's effectively his ally.

Now we all know that in actuality Dooku was Tyranus and it was all a ploy to start the war, but Padme didn't know that then, so what agenda is she imagining Dooku would have to attempt an assasination of her?

Perhaps this is something better explained in the novelisation (which I have not read). Can anybody help me out?

I'm inclined at the moment to simply put this down to poor writing done soley for the purpose of giving Ki-Adi Mundi and Mace the chance to tell the audience how the Jedi view Dooku so that we will nbe "surprised' later when it turns out he's a villain. Am I missing something?

Faraer
11 August 2003, 03:08 PM
Senator Amidala is a prominent member of the Loyalist Committee and Count Dooku leads the Separatists. She doesn't know Dooku is engineering war for the sake of war, but she knows the commerce guilds are amassing combat automata. She trusts her feelings about Count Dooku, and they don't like him. She thinks peace is a more effective way of defeating the Separatists than war is; and to all appearances so do the Separatists, since they opt for war. In the EU, at least, there's been a series of political assassinations leading up to the vote which some have attributed to Count Dooku.

There's a scene or two in the novelization where she discusses her danger with Captain Typho and your hero and mine, Captain Panaka. Typho raises the argument you do, and Padmé rebuffs it.

Reverend Strone
11 August 2003, 05:22 PM
Okay. Thanks for that, but if there have been assasinations in the past that have been attributed to Dooku, why do the Jedi insist he's not capable of such a thing? Or are they simply in denial?

Is the point being made by the scene that Padme's intuition is telling her more than anyone has been able to decipher through motive, investigation or common sense? It seems odd to publicly point the finger of blame at someone who has no apparent motive or stands to gain anything from such an act, especially when he's a Jedi (or used to be), who are supposed to be beyond such things.

Perhaps I should read the novelisation...:)

Nova Spice
11 August 2003, 05:40 PM
I have to agree with the good Reverend. This sequence has never sat well with me, either.

It simply jumped out at the audience. Suddenly, Senator Amidala comes strolling into Palpatine's office and mouths off about some dude we know nothing about. She never explains why she feels this way. She just spouts it out. Confusing, eh?

Although I do find it ironic, in that Sidious is standing right in front of Padme. Besides that, I feel that the line served no purpose. In fact, I would have liked to have heard something like:

"I think Count Dooku is behind it."-Padme Amidala

"We're looking into it, Senator."-Mace Windu

"Count Dooku is an idealist, not a murderer."-Ki-Adi Mundi

"We can only hope something like this is beneath his character."-Mace Windu

"Nevertheless, it's best that we remain vigilant. This isn't the first time Jedi have gone rogue."-Supreme Chancellor Palpatine

That would have served the movie much better. Though Padme doesn't explain why, it does present a point and counterpoint about Dooku's allegiance. And it would also serve as irony in that Palpatine is a Sith, discussing rogue Jedi.

At any rate, the line is befuddling. :?

Faraer
11 August 2003, 05:46 PM
The Jedi's disbelief that Dooku could perform evil acts is to show us that a Jedi turning to the dark side isn't something that routinely happens, certainly not within Mace's living memory, but something that puts the whole galaxy at risk, as we see. Yes, they're in denial, or rather they can't adapt quickly enough to a galaxy in which everything they relied on -- the Senate, the Force, people's goodwill towards the Order -- doesn't work how it should; in which the extinct Sith live, in which machines build machines, in which Yoda can't see the future. Yoda does recognize the possibility of Dooku's fall but doesn't reveal his suspicion in part because to do so would further weaken trust in the Jedi.

Yes, at that point Padmé sees more clearly than anyone. (Though the RPG makes some characters Force-sensitive and others not, it's clear that the Force affects Han and Padmé a great deal.) By killing Senator Amidala, Count Dooku ostensibly stands to weaken the resolve of the government, to disrupt the Military Creation Act vote, to provoke the Senate to war which would win many more worlds to his movement and allow him full use of the droid armies... So I think we see motive for him, but also room for doubt.

Do you think?

Jim Williams
11 August 2003, 08:12 PM
I guess we first have to assume that events have led others besides the jedi to view Dooku as a villain capable of these acts.

It's been awhile since i watched the deleted scenes (not exactly the best evidence) but I recall seeing or reading a scene where Padme is before the Senate telling them to "open their eyes/stalks/visual processing sensors." (I love how SW can still be so Earth/Human-centric...we'll be sitting ducks!)

Anyway, she goes on to berate the Senate about how obvious it is someone wants a war because she is the target of assassination and she wants to defeat the MCA. I guess she has a hard time considering Palpatine being behind for a variety of very plausible reasons (bluff/con, the Force, etc.)

So from an outsider's nonomniscient perspective, we have the Separitists threatening secession and clearly seen as militarily superior. It would seem logically the last thing the Secessionists want is a Republic Army to counter them, unless for some reason peace is more threatening than war to the Separatists. Now we all know that this is truly the case (the war is necessary and a means to end for the Sith power players).

But why would Secessionist power players not be going "Ummm, would SOMEONE please stop trying to OFF THE PACIFIST so we can BLITZKREIG the helpless Republic with our droid armies! THANK YOU!"

The only answer that I have for that is that Nute Gunray must have presented a case (or thought he presented a case) to Dooku that she had to die for him (Nute) to join in. The other Seccessionist power players must have just shrugged their shoulders and dealt with it.

Or just press the "I believe" button...

Jaggard
11 August 2003, 09:48 PM
I can't help but think that the idea was:

Padme is against an army.
Those who want an army kill her to get her out of the way, proving they are not to be trusted. So the Republic martyrss her and takes up her cry of non-violent means.
The sepretists now just walk away or have an easy fight of it.
Padme isn't Dookus ally. She just doesn't see it wise to make them stay at gun point, it's counter intutive. Be a part of our democracey or die! But Dooku needs the image of the evil controling Republic to rally his side against. Padmes approach doesn't make the republic less controling just less obviously so. Get her out of the way, all side blame each other and get more tense and Dooku get his chance to say 'see, I told you so' and people will believe him. I'm not sure that makes it clear but that's the best I can do for now.

Reverend Strone
11 August 2003, 10:28 PM
Wow- some great thoughts here guys. The majority of these hadn't occured to me yet. Regardless of what the actual answer may be, I think many of the hypotheses put forward here are well within credible realms.

Thanks so much for the intelligent answers everyone!:)

Church Climbin Ryan
13 August 2003, 05:31 AM
I think I figured it out.

Forgive me if someone else already posted something like this, but i wanted to get it down while the thought was still fresh in mind.

So anyway, it goes something like this:

Dooku works for Sidious, aka Palpatine. Therefore we can safely assume that Dooku is well aware of Palpatine's intent to dissolve the Republic and one day rule the galaxy as Emperor.

From here we can surmise that the Separatist movement is nothing other than a ploy by Palpatine and Dooku shift attention from things on the homefront. I don't think Dooku gives a damn about the Separatist movement.

Unbeknownst to the Republic at large, but beknownst to us, Dooku and Palpatine have already begun to create an army for the Republic in the form the Clones. These clones eventually become the Imperial Stormtroopers, as revealed in teh commentary on Attack of the Clones by George Lucas.

Now, Amidala vehemently opposes the formation of an army, in other words opposes the means by which Palpatine instigates the fall of the Republic, therefore Dooku, who works for Palpatine, wants her dead.

But this still leaves the question of how the hell little Padme suspected Dooku was behind her assasination attempt since there's no real valid evidence (that she or anyone else would know of) to back that up.

Faraer
13 August 2003, 07:12 AM
Up to the last paragraph, that's all true enough. Senator Amidala's suspicion never struck me as odd and I've tried to summarize it above.

VixenofVenus
13 August 2003, 08:39 AM
I think this has been said, but I think the reason Padme thinks it was Dooku is just left up to her instincts. In the novelization, I thought there was a discussion between Panaka, Padme, and Typho where they all decided that the Spice Miners weren't violent or upset enought to attempt an assasination, and that the only other important issue that Padme was working on was the Army Creation Act ...

So, since she believed that the reason Dooku was moving towards war, was that she knew that he knew that peace would defeat the Seperatists eventually.

So that combined with her instincts ... thats why she thought Dooku would want to kill her ... between her and Bail Organa, the Army Creation Act would have probably been defeated ... so while the assasination attempt wouldn't necessarily kill her, it would remove her from the picture, as Dooku and Sidious/Palpatine knew that eventually the Jedi would move her away from Coruscant.

Church Climbin Ryan
13 August 2003, 09:51 AM
Yeah, that sounds about right... I'll buy that.

Master Dao Rin
13 August 2003, 01:07 PM
It seems quite plain to me if you follow the logic of the events before the start of the Clone Wars. Padme is not being particularly intuitive - she's merely putting two and two together. I think anyone would have done the same.

Hmm ... lets see if I can sum it up:

The facts:

Padme sets up a commitee to oppose the Military Creation Act, since the Act will promote more violence within the fractured Republic and exacerbate the situation with the Separatists. Fortunately for the good guys, most people in the Senate and the Galaxy want peace. Its widely held that they will succeed in voting down the Act, being that many of the Core Worlds - like Alderaan and Rodia - are on her side, and even the Supreme Chancellor sides in her favour. That's a powerful political card to hold. This is not good for those that want the security measure.

Dooku is the very public and out-spoken leader of the Separatist faction. Their idealogy is well-known about how they will stop at nothing to convince more and more systems to see the truth with the depth of decay in the Republic. Already, thousands have left; they have been very successful. Therefore, we probably can safely assume he has appeared in the Galactic Senate Hall on more than one occassion to state his case (at least, until his homeworld officially seceded with the Republic). In doing so, he has probably exchanged heated words with Padme as they debated the security measures of the Republic for months. Maybe even a veiled threat upon his last speech (as he did with Obi-wan)?

Dooku wants war with the Republic, since this will encourage more systems to leave the Republic. Therefore, he is publicly opposed against those who oppose the security measure of the Military Creation Act. The passage of this Act is his strongest trump card, since it will make plain that the Republic is as autocratic and inept a bureaucratic government as the Separatists claim.

Dooku needs powerful and wealthy supporters since his finances have been tapped and he doesn't have nearly enough money to fund an army. Note that the whole Separatist movement has not officially come together until during the events in which AotC happens. This is why there was a secret meeting. Therefore, only Dooku and his resources at the beginning of the movie are officially "The Separatist Movement".

Therefore, its no secret that Dooku has made overtures to the economic engines in the galaxy, especially the Techno Union, the Intergalactic Banking Clan, and the infamous Trade Federation. Its the Trade Federation and, more importantly, the fact that Nute Gunray is still the Federation's leader that Dooku is most interested in courting.

Nute Gunray has a known and public vendetta against Padme Amidala, despite him being a public servant of the Republic. Nute cannot directly and publicly pursue his vendetta against his hated rival since doing so will only prove his guilt in the diplomatic and judicial mess that occurred during the Battle of Naboo and the Federation would finally have to pay reparations and surrender Gunray.

Moreover, ever since the Battle of Naboo, Amidala has enjoyed especial and sweeping sympathy within large segments of the galactic population. In the ten years since Amidala has more than proven that she is a capable and compassionte ruler and, this combined with her obvious youthfulness and heroic qualities, has probably ensured she is the most beloved and public figure in the Republic.

Nute is therefore forced to go through discreet means to pursue his revenge. Of course, no one is fooled, and I'm betting anyone with two brain cells will know Nute is doing this, especially as sensationalized as all these dealings are by the Republic equivalent of Hollywood Insider and other holonet news corporations that have pounced on this drama after the heroic Queen stood up against the evil money grubbing Federation.

Of course, this above fact only illustrates how corrupt and unjust the Republic has become when public servants can (and do) pursue personal attacks against each other. The stage is plainly set for the following events to occur:

The Situation:

The Military Creation Act is finally called to vote after months of political mud-slinging and tabling.

As leader of the Opposition, Padme is naturally called to appear at the Senate to make sure the Act is not passed.

As Padme lands, her starship is sabotaged in a massive explosion on the landing pad. Although the clear assassination attempt on Padme fails, seven of her staff are killed. Since only the Trade Federation is stupid enough to attempt something like this on the much beloved Padme Amidala, one should not think anyone else is capable of this. Everyone [/i]knows[/i] Nute Gunray was behind this, although no one will be able to publicly give evidence on this, just like time and time before since the Battle of Naboo. As always, Gunray will get away with it as things are bogged down in bureaucratic laws and corruption.

However, there is a new factor in the game. Dooku has made the first overtures with the Trade Federation and others. Although not public yet, I'm sure most people know that the Separatists are courting these economic giants. Unfortunately for the Separatists, the Federation is the unspoken leader of these "money factions", so Dooku must somehow appeal to the leader of the Federation, Nute Gunray above all the others.

Since the only faction capable of opposing the Loyalist commitee with any success is the Federation, Dooku would need to get them in his pocket anyway he can. An assassination as a political favour for Nute Gunray would do much to sway the Federation to the Separatist cause.

So, Padme believes Dooku sanctioned a hit on her for the benefit of Nute Gunray and gaining favour with the Federation, since no one else would have the resources or the inclination to take out such a public and favourite leader. This is why she said Dooku was behind the assassination attempt, not its source.

But movie dialogue and timing requires the writer to make the most efficient use of speech in the time you've got for a scene. Thus, you have to read between the lines of what Padme said:

Nute Gunray (the despot of the Federation) made an assassination attempt on me, but I believe Dooku was behind the attack on my life because he is clearly attempting to gain Federation favour for his Separatist faction.

This is clearly played out in the scenes that follow. Lucas is a great storyteller. :D

Church Climbin Ryan
13 August 2003, 04:01 PM
That was pretty well thought out, Dao.. as always.

I think I liked mine better though ;)

Reverend Strone
13 August 2003, 05:31 PM
I'll buy that MDR. Well thought out and very clear. I was pretty much where CCR is with his explanantion when I created this thread, but since reading the excellent explanations above, I'm seeing a whole lot more here. Big thanks everyone, Master Dao Rin, Faraer Jim, Vix and, well, everyone who has contributed here. Some great food for thought.

I am curious though MDR, what was the source of your information? It's exactly the kind of stuff I'm interested in, and the reason I loved Cloak of Deception so much. Is all that in the AOTC novelisation?

Jaggard
13 August 2003, 06:51 PM
I'll buy most of that, as it explains some of my own ideas far better then I did (I'm actually quite confused by what I wrote last time), but I have to disagree with the idea that Dooku would vocally support the creation of an army. He may secretly hope that it goes that way. He would want to make it clear that the creation of an army is proof of the sick need for domination the republic has and pair that with it's inability to make decisions that are needed (like naboo) and you have a dangerous combination. Vocally playing up the dangers of such a thing and then secretly makeing it nessecary to do those things strengthens his call for others to join him. The faster his movement grow the more the loyal Republic hands over the power to their leader to deal with this. Then the Republic is pretty much ruled by the First citizen (Julius Ceas... I mean Palpy) and the civil war allows those who oppose the new order to be removed and replaced with loyalists after the rebels are squashed. Then when he doesn't drop the assumed powers and declares himself emporor, some of his orginal supporters look at the way he disposed of his opposision in the civil war and know they can either be supporters or declared traitorous rebels and soon dead. A few who support what they know is right try to keep some power in the senate but at the same time play a dangerous game of secretly supporting the rebellion while being part of the empire. This continues to the point where few if any star systems actually oppose the Empire but their citizens can run off and do it themselves.

I'm not sure he cares if Padme lives or not as long as the Republic is scared enough. That way they do stupid things that make his predictions of a dangerous and corrupt Republic true. It doesn't hurt that the attempt buys him support from the Trade federation. Just the attempt make Dookus claims of danger seem even more profetic while secureing more allies to devide the Republic. The devide fits his image of the leader of the sepratists but also paves the way for his supposed plans to aide his master by makeing it nessecary for the Republic to crack down and Palpy to gain more power over the citizens, which proves the danger of the republic even more ... ect 'Til there is no choice but For the Emporer to take complete control and people will hunt down the opposition for him. Then the empire gathers stability while other recover from the war. All that is left is rag tag rebel group with no open supporters. But he may have underestimated the backlash of those who felt used, when they gave him powers to stop th enemy and he never layed it down. Some see the Evil for what it is and secretly support the rebels and after Alderan payed for it other woke up to the Evil they had allowed in.

Padme may only see the fact that while Dooku wouldn't ask for the army to be made, he would see the hysteria of the republics sudden feeling of vulnerability and subsequent increase in intrest in an army as fuel to his claims of an out of control Republic. She sees it also as a good way of courting those that have a grudge against her and the republic (not just the Federation, but others who see the naboo incident as a day when people began to crack down on and keep an eye on bussiness empires, profits can be damaged if people think they can cry to the Republic or just start a war with a bussiness empire) without actually taking responsibilty for it. In short while it might not make sense to think about doing such a thing, if such a thing were to happen it couldn't really hurt Dookus cause and may go so far as to benefit Dooku in every way. She is looking at who benefits form it (Dooku, any 'victims' of the unfair Republic, and the federation in particular who would never side with the republic after Naboo); while the Jedi and others are looking at it form who could think of doing something like that. Without thinking of who benefits it is dificult to see who would think to do it. It's easier to think that some petty spice smugglers with a grudge would do it then to think that it supports Dooku and his political campaign in so many way (especially unjedi like ways) that it can't really be a coincidance.

Does that make sense.

Jim Williams
14 August 2003, 05:33 AM
MDR I can go with that. I think really that GL prefers some things to remain unsaid. I know as a GM that some times to much intricacy becomes a house of cards. All it takes is one player to go, "But..." and I'm scrambling like a madman.

Master Dao Rin
14 August 2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Jaggard
I'll buy most of that, as it explains some of my own ideas far better then I did (I'm actually quite confused by what I wrote last time), but I have to disagree with the idea that Dooku would vocally support the creation of an army.

To make that statement by me clearer, its in my opinion that Dooku was the first person who originally made the motion for a clone army 10 years before AotC (just after the Battle of Naboo). He was the champion of an Army of the Republic to protect the citizens of the Republic against the depredations of tyrants like the Trade Federation and from letting this sort of thing happening again.

Then Padme steps up to the plate and makes things difficult for the Sith and their plans when she sees through the bull and takes Dooku on for what he is really saying.

One a side note: Of course, this is all going according to the masterminded plans of Palpatine - we can enjoy pretending Palpatine engineered these events.

On the other hand, he may not have and Padme really is a wrench in his designs. Going this route would also make the story more suspenceful and the one I personally prefer since the subsequent events still work.

So Padme begins heating the Senate up as she squares off against the pro-security Dooku. Things get so frustrating with the stalled motions and counter-proceedings that things are, yet again, bogged down in proceedings. Dooku and the "Rebels" on one side, and Padme and the "Loyalists" on the other.

Dooku starts to put on a show about finally getting fed up as he begins subtly changing his tune for his real goal: dividing the Senate and the Republic. He points to the lack of direction, mis-management, and increasing lawlessness on the frontier of the Rim as the very cause of all the strife and injustice occuring to the hard-working "backbone" of the Republic - the "Outlanders" in the Outer systems.

Now he begins singing the song of Separation. "We don't need this corrupt and decrepit monster of a government. Let's start over again and make things right and safe for our children! Give me liberty or give me death! Oh, and we can get rid of all those nasty Republic taxes on stim-tea and make tons of money founded on good ol' capitalism out in the hinterland, unfettered by rules, laws, or regulations. This endorsement paid for by the magnanimous Trade Federation."

Y'know, typical American revolutionary type stuff. :rolleyes: :D ;)

Incidently, this makes the issue more obscure and clouded, as a new crisis begins to form and forment in an already volatile situation. Things boil to a point at which Dooku thinks is right, at which point he then stuns the galaxy and shatters the Senate with the announcement that he and his homeworld are leaving the Republic. He gets away with it through some obscure loophole in the Articles of Union way back when the Republic was formed (at least in my opinion). Over the months tens, hundreds, and a thousand systems follow suit.

However, those who proved their cowardly colours and did not leave with their political friend Dooku still believe in the Republic, but still want an army, especially with this new threat. After all, those systems had no right to leave the Republic: Union rights over State rights is their song and dance now. :D Many systems are in this camp. And we still have Padme's Loyalists more firmly opposed than ever to see things break down even further into violence.

Of course, now Dooku begins crying out most convincing as he points his finger at an "oppressive" regime - never mind that he indeed was the one that engineered this situation. "We want the right to be free of your regulations and be free to practice (corporate) slavery as we've always enjoyed!" Trust me, many politicians would be swayed by Dooku as his message is really one of freedom and unlimited profit.

It would be an offer too good to pass up. And now Dooku has two smoking guns: 1) A government that allows unlawfulness to occur within its borders as it ties its own hands in helplessness as it refuses to create order. And (2) A government that then begins to "bully" its own members when they decide to do something about it on their own.

That's a powerful combination and why I think Dooku at first cried for an army and then seemingly reversed his tune to best suit himself when the situation changed. This illustrated Dooku's character perfectly in my opinion - at least, that's how I've read Dooku.

YMMV, however.

Master Dao Rin
14 August 2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Reverend Strone
I am curious though MDR, what was the source of your information? It's exactly the kind of stuff I'm interested in, and the reason I loved Cloak of Deception so much. Is all that in the AOTC novelisation?

Nothing as dramatic as that. This is simply a product of 7 years of history degree training.

I'm always happy to actually have a use for spending all that time and money in university! At least my Star Wars campaigns have benefited from my degrees and I hope my players have enjoyed the depth this has brought. I'm sure it will also serve me well in my film career.

Just take a few American and European history courses, and sprinkle in some modern Asian history courses as well for a good take on governmental practices and how societies deal with politics.

But I'm always happy to help out a fellow GM in distress for some good story plots. :D

Jaggard
14 August 2003, 06:57 PM
Sorry but that just seems to rub me the wrong way. :gungan:
But my theories must not make as much sense to others because they seem to like yours better.

I'm of the MIB way of thinking. Individuals are smart people as a group are stupid and panicy. Wind two groups up and let them loose and they do all the work in destroying each other. If Dooku had made a move to create a army before leaving he would have made it obvious that he and the others would be a threat and nobody would doubt Padmes claim that he was behind it; because he is advocating force and domination to keep law. Even if he switches sides he would still be seen as a supporter of force and Domination to get what he wants.
Instead I see him leaving before the whole issue of armies came up (in part excused to the Jedi by doubts surrounding the Mandalorian incident in Jango Fett open season for EU people), for movie motives disqust at the situation at Naboo and questions of Annakin being the Chosen one (actually that last one is from the Vis Dic). Once he was gone some 'rouge' groups cause problems that the Jedi are too small to handle alone. Now the Republic is panicing and want protection. Padme sees this as playing into Dookus portrayal of a corrupt and Dominating Republic and surmises it will cause more fear reactions from some groups (namely Trade federation and the others that support the economics of the republic) rather then haveing positive influance,which increases Dookus influance and decreases the numbers of the republic supporters. But since Dooku made no move to seek such a thing as a republic military, then such ideas by Padme are easy to dismiss as thoughts and even easier to dismiss from a fairly young woman who might have had past bad experiance with military forces (Naboo is used against her as a situation that has biased her against force, maybe to the detriment of others). Meanwhile Dooku can sit back on the image of a man seeking peaceful change and secretly plot. The assasination attempt serves more purposes this way. It can be dismissed as smugglers, without leading back to Dooku, but makeing allies out of the Trade Federation. It points to a need for another force other then Just the Jedi. And it forces the republic to speed up the issue without thinking it through completely, at the exact moment they would be without one of the major opposing voices present (dead or in hiding).
It's hard to work it out because Dooku is playing both sides. But IMHO he would want to be seen as the peaceful leader of a Party seeking political seperation, and threatened by the Republic. An army is against all that, but allying with major coporations; especially ones that could supply a protective droid army (not costing lives); is simply a wise tactic. Padme may see that part of the price of allying with the TF is her life, but the peaceful political seperatist leader makes it difficult for other to see it that way.

It's really hard for me to discribe this because it involves seperating the public Facade he portrays to the Republic, while showing a slightly different Facade to the Seperatists, all the while plotting to make both sides destroy each other and he and his master remain hidden from their enemies and avoid personal consequences from both sides. To the republic he must be seen as wrong but not evil, to the seperatist he has to be seen a strong and having trick up his sleeve to assure they win, meanwhile he is going to send each side against the other and fade away to come back and claim all the spoils for himself (and his master who only the jedi know about).

Anybody else see what I'm saying, any of you agree with me. I'm feeling a little like some one with an idea that I can't seem to get others to follow.

Church Climbin Ryan
14 August 2003, 10:43 PM
I don't think it was that in-depth. I think Dao is just very astute or something. I've been in a few discussions with him before, and he always seems to have this much to say. About everything. lol

It might almost be worth reading the Attack of the Clones book again... I don't seem to remember much about it. It was pretty good though.

Master Dao Rin
15 August 2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Jaggard
If Dooku had made a move to create a army before leaving he would have made it obvious that he and the others would be a threat and nobody would doubt Padmes claim that he was behind it; because he is advocating force and domination to keep law. Even if he switches sides he would still be seen as a supporter of force and Domination to get what he wants.

Well, I don't mean he advocated martial law, I just mean he advocated putting money into a "security budget" for a "security force" to keep the peace over the "ineffectual" Jedi Order.

Naturally Dooku is smart enough to understand that, given money for creating "security" forces, the greedy and corrupt politicians would soon corrupt that into private security forces for their own sectors and voila, instant armies.

Master Dao Rin
15 August 2003, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Church Climbin Ryan
I don't think it was that in-depth. I think Dao is just very astute or something. I've been in a few discussions with him before, and he always seems to have this much to say. About everything. lol

Heh. Nothing as dramatic as that, as I said.

When you stand up in front of a board of your peers in university, arguing about how Star Wars relates to modern feminism and that Lucas drew from real life examples for his message and themes, you kinda have back-up your claims with research.

I'm just a uber-star wars geek. Maybe Alpha Geek Prime, or something.

:D