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Gyp Ryol
11 August 2003, 05:45 PM
The phrase "aliens were treated like second-class citizens in the Empire" is one I've heard fairly often. However, I scratch my head in confusion over the meaning of "second-class citizen." I'm sure I could find the explanation to the term itself in any dictionary or encyclopedia, but that really only explains how second-class citizens were treated in our own history. Would there be any differences in the treatment of second-class citizens in our own history and that of the Star Wars galaxy? I'm asking this because I'll be running a game in the Mid Rim, a place where the civilization of the Core worlds meets with the frontier attitude of the Outer Rim worlds to create a slightly strained atmosphere of non-humans being part of society, but not nearly as large a part as Humans. (At least in my own opinion.) Any help regarding this matter would be most appreciated.

BrianDavion
11 August 2003, 06:34 PM
no differance really. segregation, anti-alien bias and slavery on occasion about fit the bill

Jim Williams
11 August 2003, 08:23 PM
Separate and nonequal facilities.

Taxes levied specifically on non-Humans.

A surcharge for hotel accommodations levied on non-Humans. It's explained off as necessary for extra cleaning up for those smelly Chevin, etc. even if the particular non-Human smells fresh as a daisy.

This is an idea from Joe Haldeman's There is No Darkness. Apply an entry tax at a starport for any being weighing in at more than 120 kg. So a Large species would be unfairly taxed. Small adult species would, of course, play the minimum fee charged to Medium-size Humans, and of course, Human children would get a discount. (Sigh) And yes, so would non-Human children, but that's a small loophole in the segregation loophole.

"Hi, Rebel Alliance? Yeah...uh huh...Dangerous...got it. WHERE DO I JOIN!?"

JediJester
13 August 2003, 10:46 AM
Not to mention Imperial martial law on their own homeworlds.

I usually just think of something akin to African-Americans in American history right after the Civil War and pre-Martin Luther King Jr.

Sherman Shipyards
14 August 2003, 12:49 AM
In my mind, the Empire has also has more of a Nazi bent to it. Stormtroopers (wonder where George got that name) regualy herass non-humans, search their home for no reason, stand outside business and scare folk as they enter, ext...

Errin Orwain
25 August 2003, 06:11 PM
Of course they seem kind of Nazi-ish. Makes them more evil. And Lucas wanted us to hate the Empire and cheer Luke and Company on.

Rouge8
25 August 2003, 07:18 PM
On Coruscant it was worse, with a large amount of the plant not really acknowleding the nohumans existance, as they were locked in the Invisble Sector. IN the outer Rim, the laws didn't exist.

bhannah_3
27 August 2003, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Jim Williams
A surcharge for hotel accommodations levied on non-Humans. It's explained off as necessary for extra cleaning up for those smelly Chevin, etc.

I suspect that the prevalent point of view is more likely to be along the lines of:

"I don't care how much extra those ... things ... have to pay, it just isn't right or decent that they should allow those creatures into a hotel used by decent human beings at any price. Anyway, they'd be more comfortible staying in an establishment that caters for 'their' kind."

Lord Darth Vader of the Sith
12 September 2003, 03:50 PM
they mean they were treated as scum and slaves that they weren't as good as humans. It was almost the same with women only one alien broke through this xenophobia and it was thrawn

Darth_Cassed
12 September 2003, 05:34 PM
It would seem that there are different levels, depending on your species.

-Wookies, you're a slave.
-Trandoshans, you're very frowned upon
-Bothans, ooooo you better believe the Empire is hunting you.
-Mon Calamarians, hated but somewhat respected
-Chiss, well, welcome to the club ::Money under the table::
-Women, 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000 may join

It also depends individually. I'm sure a tactician like Thrawn is more valued than a Sullustan chef....who ya think the Empire wants?

Darth Fierce
14 September 2003, 08:55 AM
Darth Cassed has a good point...while most non-human species were considered inferior under the Empire, there were a few species given certain liberties due to what they could provide.

For instance, the Muuns (aliens of the same race as San Hill in AOTC) were practically left unscathed by the Empire because the Emperor realized that no other race had the talent for investing and banking that they (the Muuns) did (hence leading to the Muun homeworld of Muunilinst being nicknamed "Moneyland").

The Trandoshans were given certain liberties because they were more than happy to capture Wookiee slaves for the Empire.

Herglics were pretty much left alone because they allowed the Empire to use the Herglic homeworld for the creation of Imperial war machines.

Hutts probably presented the Empire with one of the things that the Empire feared: a potential enemy that could devastate the Empire. I mean, if Imperial forces encroached on Hutt Space too much, they'd risk the chance of suffering heavy losses due to the species under Hutt control. Take a look at the distant past of the SW timeline. Xim the Despot challenged the Hutts for domination in their area of the galaxy with his army of battle robots and ended up losing everything. Also, due to their deceiving, duplicitous nature, Hutts may have actually been somewhat respected by the Emperor.

I'm sure there's some other races that fit this mold, but I wonder how you would classify these species (i.e. would they necessarily be considered second-class species, or would they fall somewhere between first and second class?).

Darth Fierce :vader:

BrianDavion
14 September 2003, 09:26 AM
my money says the races that sided with the sepertists and the races that where fanaticly loyal to the jedi dureing the clone wars where the ones that got scrwed the hardest.

you'll note mon calamari was a major sepertist base.

JediJester
15 September 2003, 06:30 PM
I'm sure there were plenty of exceptions to the rule of aliens being second class citizens. Even though they weren't as downtrodden as other races, I don't see them having the same freedom as the human citizens of the Empire. Sure their homeworlds were left alone if they willingly gave their unique services to the Empire, but off their planet, they probably suffered many injustices.

Dea-Ev Dacal
30 September 2003, 10:41 PM
It seems to me that many species in SW were treated like the Jewish in germany during WW2. Many of the species (eg. Qui Xux species,can't remeber name) had nearly complete genocide commited on them. But the Empire saw the value in some species, Mon Calamarians- brilliant, wookies-strong slave types, noghri- assasins, etc. the whole Nazi0-Imp thing, well look at Tarkin, he has the look they always give the evil Nazi in movies, plus the officers wear tight leather gloves, shiny kneehihg boots, and those ever-so slightly nazi-ish uniforms, though I don't get the mutton chops, and the british accents.
E.D.

Sherman Shipyards
30 September 2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Dea-Ev Dacal
...though I don't get the mutton chops, and the british accents.
E.D.

the british accent are all from the upper class way of speaking and people tend to associate that way of speaking as having a superore of snobish quailty too it.

BrianDavion
1 October 2003, 12:56 AM
the more realistic reason for the british acccent in officers in that star wars was hot mostly in britan. thus all the extras where british

Errin Orwain
1 October 2003, 06:30 PM
not to mention the fact that a brittish actor would not care too much if the then risky Star Wars project flopped in America.