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TuskenJedi
25 August 2003, 05:36 PM
What does everyone think of Nom Anor and his whole separate faction? And i'm confused...because in Force Heretic II he says that Shimrra is really threatened...and in FC III he says the heresy revolution will never amount to much or something like that. Also, did anyone notice that the writers of the Force Heretic series totally leave out the Eight Cortex project with that one shaper?

Nova Spice
25 August 2003, 07:17 PM
What does everyone think of Nom Anor and his whole separate faction? And i'm confused...because in Force Heretic II he says that Shimrra is really threatened...and in FC III he says the heresy revolution will never amount to much or something like that. Also, did anyone notice that the writers of the Force Heretic series totally leave out the Eight Cortex project with that one shaper?

What do you mean by "what does everyone think of Nom Anor and his whole separate faction?"

My personal opinion on the matter is that while initially it was a ploy to ensure Nom's survival, he's actually started to accept his usefulness as the Prophet. And maybe, just maybe, he might actually believe some of it too.

Shimrra is most definitely threatened by the heresy. The reason Nom Anor says "his plans have backfired" is because of Ngaaluh's death. The heresy in itself, he never said, would "amount to nothing." In fact, he realizes what a powerful weapon he has in the form of the heresy.

As far as Nen Yim and the Eighth Cortex, the writers of the Force Heretic series never mentioned her. You act as if that's a bad thing? Sean Williams and Shane Dix were given a set of protocols for writing the trilogy. Nen Yim was not supposed to play any part in those novels.

The good news, however, is that she is one of four main characters in the next novel, The Final Prophecy. In fact, she's even on the front cover of the book, just like she was in Edge of Victory I: Conquest. Look for her to play a MAJOR role in the final two books, and ultimately in the fate of the Yuuzhan Vong. ;)

Wedge in Red2
26 August 2003, 12:19 AM
Yeah, don't forget that Nen Yim at the end of the Edge of Victory series was given the task by Shimmra of creating the downfall of the infidels. I think you'll see her plans coming to fruition near the end of the series, it seems.

Jon

Rogue Janson
26 August 2003, 10:11 AM
I always thought that was Mezhan Kwaad on the front of Conquest. The NRESB certainly has a completely different picture of Nen Yim.

The role of Nom Anor is probably the trickiest thing to puzzle out at the moment. He seems to move towards actually helping teh shamed ones and believing in what he says and then move back again to thinking only of power. Likewise the group gets a big bonus in Ngaalah, but then loses her and appears to be little better off than they started.

Clearly if the Yuuzhan Vong are going to have a rapprochement with the Galactic Alliance, the heretics are going to be crucial. As their leader, Nom Anor could even find hmiself in a heroic role, but it'd require quite a character transformation in the next two books. If I had to guess, in the Final Prophecy, he'll pull something off that dramatically changes things, then make a 'final prophecy' that sets his followers on a particular course. Then again, Nom Anor is the ultimate survivor, I find it hard to imagine him actually dying.

The heretics don't really seem to have made all that much progress in the Force Heretic series. Nom Anor certainly has a growing following, but without higher caste members like Ngaalah, Nom Anor doesn't seem to be able to use this to much advantage.

TuskenJedi
26 August 2003, 02:18 PM
Yeah why are the Cortexes such a big deal?
And i had a feeling that Ngaaluh was going to die from the start. Either that or betray "Amorrn" like his underling tried to do but was thwarted by Kunra. I think that Nom Anor wasted her by beeing greedy (he was just using her to kill all his former executor rivals).

Rogue Janson
26 August 2003, 02:43 PM
I think that Nom Anor wasted her by beeing greedy (he was just using her to kill all his former executor rivals).
Yeah, you're spot on there. Nom Anor's going to have to rethink his strategies and his priorities if he wants to succeed.

Another of my guesses is that Nom Anor might set things in motion that he hasn't planned. I was just going through FH2 quickly to find someone and noticed a passage where Nom Anor specifically implies making the heretic allies of the Galactic Alliance. He intends it to be for the advantage of the Yuuzhan Vong (or at least their rulers ;)) but I can easily see his underestimating things like compassion and trust and setting in motion something that goes beyond his plans.

Btw, did anyone worry about the fact that Shimrra's telepathic powers weren't mentioned in Force Heretic? In Destiny's Way Nom Anor is told never to lie to Shimrra, yet Ngaaluh does it all the time. The only guess I can make is that Shimrra has to really fix his attention on someone and he has no reason to do this to Ngaaluh.

Nova Spice
26 August 2003, 05:30 PM
Btw, did anyone worry about the fact that Shimrra's telepathic powers weren't mentioned in Force Heretic? In Destiny's Way Nom Anor is told never to lie to Shimrra, yet Ngaaluh does it all the time. The only guess I can make is that Shimrra has to really fix his attention on someone and he has no reason to do this to Ngaaluh.

My thoughts too, Janson. I don't think he ever had reason to suspect Ngaaluh until the end of the book. By that point, I don't think any extraordinary powers were needed to weed the traitor out. Shimrra might be naive on the ways of the "infidels," but he is by no means stupid or un-intelligent.

I have a feeling that Shimrra is a Force-user. He just doesn't know it. Or maybe he does......... *ponders*


Yeah why are the Cortexes such a big deal?

The cortexes are the realms of Yuuzhan Vong knowledge. It is the knowledge inside these "cortexes" that is used in making biotechnology and advancements in Vong society and culture. It is a common belief that the gods send their knowledge to the cortexes for the shapers and priests to decipher.

Since the Eighth Cortex is empty, there is no more new methods in shaping and creating biotechnology. If word of this spread, many would feel that the gods are indeed false, and that the cortexes are simply filled by the Vong leadership. That is why Nen Yim's work on the Eighth Cortex is crucial to Vong victory. ;)

Jedivisionary
26 August 2003, 06:19 PM
As a Biochemist and all around science guy, I am very intrigued by the whole "Eighth Cortex" concept.

I speculate that there may be connections between Zonama Sekot and the Vongtech as yet unrevealed.

Also, we must consider what the official blurbs for upcoming novels have said and what the series has been leading up to.

THe final book is called "The Unifying Force"

Jason Soloand before him Vergere and Anakin SOlo (through his lambent lightsaber) had some understanding of the type of "force" for lack of a better term behind such phenomena as Yammosk telepathy and other paranormal Vongcreature powers.

The Yuuzhan Vong galaxiy's version of the Force? Are they going to come together in the last book?

Personally, in my SW campaign (although I don't think the authors will go this way) but to explain it to my players who demand GM explanation as to why their precious PC Force powers hard earned with experience points fail them against Vong creatures my official GM explanation is (until the EU authors reveal a better one):

The Vong Galaxy life doesn't possess midi-chlorians and the regular SW galaxy creatures do. THat's why the universe felt all connected when Force Users reqched out with their extrasenses before the Vong came and brought their native life forms.

I know midi-chlorians are largely despised, but it makes the most sense to me, and because they are unpopular, I don't expect the EU authors to use this explanation at the end of the series.

But something wilol happen to unify the Force.

Will it be the 8th Cortex stuff?

Rogue Janson
27 August 2003, 04:19 AM
Personally, in my SW campaign (although I don't think the authors will go this way) but to explain it to my players who demand GM explanation as to why their precious PC Force powers hard earned with experience points fail them against Vong creatures my official GM explanation is (until the EU authors reveal a better one):
You should just tell them their characters will have to figure the mystery out for themselves. ;) If they're smart, they're going to notice the flaws in this explanation - that chazrach can be sensed in the Force.


I have a feeling that Shimrra is a Force-user. He just doesn't know it. Or maybe he does......... *ponders*
That certainly seems to be the implication to me. Though the Yammosk has telepathic abilities similar to Shimmra's and no-one seems overly bothered about that. Shimmra is meant to have visions though and these could be a 'vongsense' equivalent of Force visions.
I was a little surprised and troubled it was never mentioned in the Force Heretic books. Nom Anor should at least have thought about it.

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on that really weird bit right at the end of SxS. I read that and groaned because I just knew it would be ages before we got any kind of follow up or explanation.

Darthspectre84
27 August 2003, 04:33 AM
Damn did not know this topic started hehe.

Anyway what i think is......it is abit confusing about what role Nom Anor plays but on some small level he believes in the heresy but on another he does not. You guys are giving Nom Anor too much credit :) he looks after his own interests first. And if he were to become a hero i woudl think he would be either a unwilling hero thrown into the position or he plays the martyr. The only chance Nom Anor heresy surviving is if it went to some of the other castes. Cause come on the slaves, workers and Shamed ones are not exactly going to make the best army :P

As for Shimrra's telepathic powers......its possible he might have a very obscure implant that no one is allowed to get? And as for why he did not sense the Priestess thoughts....well i have to agree with the comment that he woudl have to put his mind to it then it shows. BUt you also might have to consider that she was quite good in deception. An example i can give is that with a lie detector, some people fool it cause they actually believe in the stuff. so....

As for the Cortex, as explained it is where all Vong knowledge comes from. Everything they did in the invasion was adaptions of their current technology while the NR or GA as it is now was making enw technology to counter. So Vong society was going stagnant unless new knowledge came. They would have lost the war without new tech. This and the fact that there was no 8th Cortex then there would be internal rebellion as well.

Kanner Ra'an
27 August 2003, 05:10 AM
Am i the only one who doesn't see Nom Anor as more of a pain in the neck of Shimraa then a threat. At this point Nom Anor doesn't have the following or the quality of people to be any major problem for Shimraa. I know for certain he doesn't beleve this stuff. I mean, come on he made up half this Jedi stuff. He's been interacting with jedi since the start of the invasion and would like nothing better to slit some jedi throat (Or the species equivilant).

Im not sure about Shimraa. The idea that force sensitives, even vongsensitives, doesn't fit. Their would have to have been some people using this power before. Their would be knowledge of it and when the vong saw these infidels in their new galaxy using it they would have assumed it was the same power instead of being dumbfounded about it. Shimraa may have biotech that gives him some kind of telepathic abilities, but i wouldn't go so far as to say FU.

The eight cortex is obviously going to show up again, though i dont think the writers are doing a great job of keeping it fresh in peoples minds.

Darthspectre84
27 August 2003, 05:27 AM
Kanner has a point about the 8th Cortex, cause i think the last time we red about it was when Nem Yin was recruited....nothing else was known. And it has been a long time since she started the project....so you suppose there might be some vong nasty beasts she has made or anything?

Also i forgot to add that part Kanner said :) the heresy is nothing more then an inconvinience to Shimrra. Nothing more. He would gladly sacrifice an entire planet of people. Cause no one is going to challenge his position. As customary of Yuuzhan Vong society is that you must obey your superiors.
But Shimrra was scarier in Destiny's Way then the Force Heretic series, by the end the Heresy acomplished very little.

Also anyone notice the shift in superiors around Destiny's Way? Yoog Skell was shown as the leader of the Intendants. But We were introduced to Prefect Drakthul (sp?) during Agents of Chaos. Then we see him take his rightful place as leader of the Intendants.

TuskenJedi
27 August 2003, 10:30 AM
This may be of the general subject, but speaking of things that arent fresh in reader's minds, what of the relationship between Jacen Solo and the World Brain? I think the last time we heard about it was in Destiny's Way! I may be wrong but....
At one point in the story, a YV character (i cant remember which for the life of me) speculates that it might be possible that the "Jeedai's Force" was a leftover remnant of Yun-Yuuzhan's life force. This may tie in with the jedi heresy, but I'm not sure.

Rogue Janson
27 August 2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Darthspectre84
Kanner has a point about the 8th Cortex, cause i think the last time we red about it was when Nem Yin was recruited....nothing else was known. And it has been a long time since she started the project....so you suppose there might be some vong nasty beasts she has made or anything?
It's hard to know what's going to come out of the eighth cortex project. If I had to guess I'd say it'd be something equivalent to the alpha red project. Though then again, here's another though - what about a superweapon? It'd be just the thing to round off the series in a Star Warsy fashion. :D


Also i forgot to add that part Kanner said :) the heresy is nothing more then an inconvinience to Shimrra. Nothing more. He would gladly sacrifice an entire planet of people. Cause no one is going to challenge his position. As customary of Yuuzhan Vong society is that you must obey your superiors.
But Shimrra was scarier in Destiny's Way then the Force Heretic series, by the end the Heresy acomplished very little.
The thing about the heresy is that it challenges the customary obedience to superiors. Imagine this - the shamed one and worker castes, unafraid of death, refusing to obey their orders from the intendants and priests. That would bring the Yuuzhan Vong to their knees. It is going to take some serious work and a big change in tactics before the heresy does anything much, but I'm sure this will come in the last two books.


Also anyone notice the shift in superiors around Destiny's Way? Yoog Skell was shown as the leader of the Intendants. But We were introduced to Prefect Drakthul (sp?) during Agents of Chaos. Then we see him take his rightful place as leader of the Intendants.
Ah, I was wondering whether Yoog Skell got replaced but never checked.


originally posted by TuskenJedi
This may be of the general subject, but speaking of things that arent fresh in reader's minds, what of the relationship between Jacen Solo and the World Brain? I think the last time we heard about it was in Destiny's Way! I may be wrong but....
I'm not sure what's going to happen with the Yuuzhan'tar World Brain. It's certainly an annoyance for the Yuuzhan Vong at the moment, but no more. If it continues to spoil their perfect planet though, they're going to have to do something but I don't know what. (Maybe Nen Yim will have to take a look at it.) I reckon what might happen is Jacen Solo returning to the planet. With the link between them, then the dhuryam could start doing some major things.

TuskenJedi
28 August 2003, 06:49 AM
i personally just cant wait until we see Zonama Sekot go to town on the YV. I wonder if maybe it will go up against the World Brain in Yuuzhan'tar and then the Jedi (namely Jacen) will have yet another moral dilemna on their hands...