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Gordirro
15 December 2003, 06:38 AM
Hi

I'm GMing a group of rebel pilots hidden in an asteroid base. They need to get some new x-wings for their squadron. I got some questions about this

In which shipyards were the x-wings constructed? Was it under the nose of the Empire or in hidden shipyards through out the Outer Rim? How did they get the parts necessary or even the "official" x-wing superior engines and etcetera?

Thanks in advance for the sugestions

Best

André Gordirro
Rio de Janeiro, BRAZIL

Darth Fierce
15 December 2003, 08:22 AM
I forget exactly the circumstances regarding the obtaining of X-wings by the Rebel Alliance, but if I remember right part of the Sienar (or Incom?) ship-building business broke off from its parent corporation and designed and built the X-wings, then gave the design to the Rebels. Where exactly occurred I'm not sure, but I remember reading that it threw a huge monkey wrench into the Empire's operations when this happened.

Darth Fierce :vader:

Jedi_Staailis
15 December 2003, 10:00 AM
The X-Wing is an Incom design, given to the Alliance by the leading Incom engineers when they defected to the Alliance. The remainder of Incom was quickly seized by the Empire, but the damage was already done. During the New Republic Era, the former Incom employees, now running a company called FreiTek, developed the E-wing starfighter.

I don't know where X-wings were constructed during the war, but I assume that it was done in secret, and with whatever resources the Alliance could scrounge up. Obviously, this had to be a well kept secret, given the importance of the X-wings to the war effort.

JediJester
15 December 2003, 11:40 AM
I thought that a lot of the X-wings were already built and that they were brought to the Alliance when the Rebels raided it and freed the techs.

Darklighter
15 December 2003, 12:06 PM
As I recall, the Incom design team defected with the designs and the prototypes, destroying all other records as they left so that the Empire wouldn't have access to the new fighter or its specs.

The rebels did their own scouting, and some planets were 'secret' rebel worlds to which families of rebels could flee to escape the persecution of the Empire.

The fighters were manufactured on worlds that were top-secret. Often, workers were brought in 'blind', not knowing what planet or what part of the galaxy they were in. The planets themselves were the type that would provide all the raw resources necessary and infrastructure necessary to build the fighters: raw material, foundries, heavy industry, etc. This allowed the Alliance to avoid much of the tricky work of shipping starfighter-grade material and components across the galaxy under the watchful eyes of the Empire, and meant the worlds themselves were at least at an industrial or atomic level of development, if not higher.

The location of these worlds and operations was one of the most closely guarded secrets of the Alliance.

In other words, you can create a planet with such a plant on it, and need not worry. However, it's a secret worth both killing and dying for, should your players ever discover one. The pilots that delivered X-wings to their commands were sworn to die before capture, and had the means to carry out that oath. Planets discovered to be building any sort of ships for the Alliance are space-bombed by the Empire.

Well, I hope that helps. :)

Zanus
15 December 2003, 01:37 PM
Reading through the WEG Rebel Alliance sourcebook, they mention how the alliance acquires fighters in general. early it was through mass defections of plantary and system defense forces, although this doesn't bring X-wings. After time the empire cracked down to the point where there where no more defections of this nature and nothing could be bought on the black market or any market at any cost, so they looked to building things on their own.

The location and nature of their production assets was kept highly classified (basically lowly pilots won't know where, they don't have a need to know and to much risk of their capture). They had several plants scattered in various places though. As mentioned, the workers where brought in "blind". The only people that know where these plants are are a few pilots (those that would bring in materials and carry out the finished products) and some of Mon Mothma's senior advisors. these plants are located on planets that can provide everything to produce the fighters, as hauling the materials across deep space is difficult and noticable. The computer and electronic components are the only thing they might have off site/off world. The prior mentioned cadre of pilots are the ones responsible for testing new fighters and delivering to their new post. They are also provided secret means of ending their lives in case of capture. theya re all highly dedicated individuals. The alliance was always looking for new sites though.

Above is summary from the WEG Rebel Alliance Sourcebook, pgs 68 and 69.

On that note, I also remember from the novels that there was a secret deep space shipyard used to build and repair alliance capital ships. This may have been used in X-wing construction. I am sure the Mon Cal ship yards built X-wings as well, one of those above mentioned sites. I also read in a few novels of some fighters being built in garages by resistance cell members, although this was mostly in regards to A-wings. I am sure there where some X-wings built this way to support local cells and units

As mentioned before, the X-wing was originally designed by Income and its designers defected tot he alliance, which was a big boon to their war effort. There is no 'official' parts production, like most things in the rebellion.

As for how a squadron would go about getting replacement fighters, that is something their officers would have to deal with. The pilots themselves don't deal with it, they just worry about the birds they have on hand and knocking down the enemie's birds. A request by the commander would go to a logisitics officer, who would send it to an appropriate higher official by appropirate means (bare in mind, they can't send this over the holonet or broad band communication, so it would likely be a courier of some sort) then the request would start traveling secret routes. The request would go in with a bunch of other requests and its urgency would be based on matters on a whole and untis prioritized based on how important their sector is, then fighters allocated as appropriate. If this squadron is out in the middle of nowhere just there to harass the enemy, and there is a couple squadrons aboard a mon cal cruiser that is tangling with imperial forces for a planet or sector, then the mon cal would obviously have priority. a planet not likely to be attacked any time soon would also be low on the list, especially if it doesn't contribute that much to the war effort as a whole. Bare in mind, the alliance was more then willing to sacrifice Calamari if it came down to it, so a world with only a squadron guarding it and that might have a good recruitment base and food production isn't that big a deal in the big picture. Hope that is of some help, or helps give you ideas how to make the players squirm a bit (they can always try to buy some low end fighters to subliment until they can get x-wings)

Vanger Chevane
15 December 2003, 01:57 PM
Darklighter makes good sense, but some of his points can be challenged.


The early process for the A-Wing is detailed in some of the novels.

Although Jan Dodonna (and apparently someone by the name of Blissex) came up with the specifications for it, and it remains a Rebel/NR design, the individual ships were manufactured in a number of small shops all working from the master specsheet, but details tended to differ.

Tycho Celchu muses that the A-W he flew into the second Death Star was built on Cardooine as it had Fijisi wood paneling in the cockpit.


If Incom, who freely manufactured such things as speeders, swoops, the T-16 Skyhopper & the Z-95 Headhunter under the auspices of the Empire wasn't also legitimately manufacturing X-Wings as well, much of the design similarity with the Z-95 allows for many replacement and construction parts to be diverted Headhunter supplies.

Obviously, weapon systems, s-foils & actuators, Astromech Interface, etc. would have to come from other ship designs.


During the early NR era, around the time of the Liberation of Thyferra and Hunt for Zsinj, Incom provides Starfighter Command with an upgraded Mark 2 A-Wing, where the cannons are mounted on a pivot allowing them to cover the top and rear arcs as well as the front.

I've found no indication they can depress, but they are noted to swivel to cover Aft, and there's also evidence (General Edor Crespin's pursuit of Admiral Trigit) that they do elevate, providing one clear direction of traverse from Front to Rear Arc.


Wedge Antilles, when queried about the status of replacement fighters for either Rogue or Wraith Squadrons, comments that Incom is still building X-Wings as slowly & meticulously as ever, therefore no new ships for the time being.

Clearly by the time the NR is formalized & seated on Coruscant, Incom is publicly producing X-Wings. Rogue Squadron's Verpine Crew Chief, Zraii, also mentions to Antilles a fondness for restoring Antique Fighters such as Wedge's X-Wing, implying the design has been around for quite some time and lending credence to it being an official Incom product.


Incom is an established small-craft builder for both the latter Imperial and New Republic Eras. FreiTek may be ex-Incom personnel, but I doubt that Incom disincorporated, or is no longer a viable corporation.

FreiTek may even be a spinoff of the Parent Company, like Bell Labs becoming Lucent Technologies.


The issue of whether or not the X-Wing was an Incom Public or Secret Project is not clearly answered AFAIK, only hinted at.

Darklighter
15 December 2003, 05:06 PM
Well Vanger, my comments were meant to respond to the specifics of the question: the building of x-wings during the Rebellion era. My sources for these are the same as Zanus', and as I review what's there in context with my post, I see that I'm more or less bang-on.

Once Endor happens, things start to change, and I won't for a second dispute that the A-wings were built in small factories, some by hand in small shops even, and-built across the Empire, or that specific companies begin to produce x-wings in the post-Endor period.

But all of that is outside the scope of the question.

So to continue to respond to the question, Gordirro, the alliance looked for worlds that would provide everything necessary for the building of the X-wing, so that shipping would be unnecessary. That meant a world producing X-wing starfighters had industrial facilities as well as mineral and metal resources sufficient to produce the fighter.

Why didn't they want to ship anything between systems? Because to ship goods between Alliance-sympathetic systems is to connect the dots between the Alliance's operations and their production capacities. To do so would mean more shipping and ships, and thus greater chance of exposure and discovery if stopped, for instance, by a Customs or Navy vessel. Instead, they wanted their productive capacities for X-wings self-contained, so that if one operation was discovered, the rest weren't immediately threatened as well.

It's significant to note that while the A-wing was developed and produced in these smaller shops, the Alliance never produced A-wings in the kind of numbers as the X-wings that came off Rebel production lines. The X-wing was the backbone of the Alliance, appropriate to a top-of-the-line multi-role starfighter. It was as ubiquitous a piece of the Rebel arsenal as they could manage - and for it to become that way, they needed worlds with factories.

Zanus has brought forth some good information and suggestions on how your group might get Starfighters, Gordirro. Calamari is an option, or you can invent a world of your own. It may involve secret dealings of the PCs' superiors, or the characters may have to go themselves. (The good thing about Calamari is that it's sort of an open secret. The characters don't exactly have to worry about the Imperials learning its location. They already know.)

If they go themselves, they'd have to take an oath of secrecy, and would likely be provided with the means to kill themselves if capture seems imminent. Alternatively, they could be flown in 'blind' on a transport, pick up the ships, and be required to fly out with pre-programmed astrogation co-ordinates designed to erase, either in the computer's memory, or in the memory of an astromech that, upon arrival at a jump point the PCs would recognize, would then eject and self-destruct in space. Thus the PCs have their fighters, and still have no idea where the X-wing fighter yards are.

Zanus
15 December 2003, 06:57 PM
Heh, sorry about posting info that was already mentioned, coarse having it put different ways may help understanding it.


Alternatively, they could be flown in 'blind' on a transport, pick up the ships, and be required to fly out with pre-programmed astrogation co-ordinates designed to erase, either in the computer's memory, or in the memory of an astromech that, upon arrival at a jump point the PCs would recognize, would then eject and self-destruct in space. Thus the PCs have their fighters, and still have no idea where the X-wing fighter yards are.

I doubt the rebellion would waste resources this way. I do know it is possible to program an astromech to have temp protocols that control them. Basically the co-ordinates could be programmed in in a 'module' that, once each point is hit, self erases from the astromechs memory. You would have to pass a heroic computer programming check, or similar skill as system dictates, to recover the info after it is erased. Jetisoning the astromechs would basically leave the x-wings stranded if the area they jump to, or at some point durring transit, they meet some sort of unexpected surprise and would normally jump out to avoid destruction.

In regards to Incom as a whole, I am pretty sure the Empire nationalized it. Basically they didn't serve the public anymore, so their civilian designs where no longer produced. Designing a fairly advanced fighter, for its time, and having the design team defect is a fairly hainess crime and something that would need to be prevented in the future. What was left of Income would basically build things the empire wanted and sell it to them at cost. The z-95, from what I have read, wasn't produced for some time before then either. It is a REALY old design, mentioned even in the EP1 novelization (along with the Y-wing and one other fighter). There where simply so many of them produced that it was hard to go anywhere without finding one. After Endor there is actually a fair bit of conflicting sources on the fate of Income. according to the X-wing novels they where around the whole time and where making new A-wings, or some such, but according to Dark Empire (and the source books that go with it, and some of the technical guides) Income was still very much under the empire and made the Howlrunner for them, but didn't have much of an impact on the market beyond that.

Gordirro
16 December 2003, 06:08 AM
Thanks so much Darkligther and all the others who have given me so insightful suggestions

They were all great and my mind just started creating a good plot for my next gaming session on sunny Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Best

André Gordirro