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Dread Pirate Roberts
4 April 2004, 06:59 PM
I dont agree with the ruling in the Revised Core Rulebook that Drain Energy should be a dark side skill. I mean just today i had to shut off some Sith's lightsabers to save my but. Why is that evil?

Nova Spice
4 April 2004, 07:29 PM
I dont agree with the ruling in the Revised Core Rulebook that Drain Energy should be a dark side skill. I mean just today i had to shut off some Sith's lightsabers to save my but. Why is that evil?

So you used the Force for your own selfish purposes? In that case, I would give you a Dark Side Point as a GM. If it had been to save a child or innocent life, then that would have been a different story.

As a GM, I only give out Dark Side Points when a Force power is used in a way that reflects a dark nature. IMO, I see no difference in using Drain Energy to de-activate your opponent's lightsaber to save yourself and using Affect Mind to get a banker to wire a couple thousand credits to your account.

The Force, in and of itself has no Light or Dark side. Those traits are revealed by the actions of the person using the Force.

With that in mind, Welcome to the Holonet, Dread! :D

Darth_Cassed
4 April 2004, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Nova Spice


So you used the Force for your own selfish purposes? In that case, I would give you a Dark Side Point as a GM. If it had been to save a child or innocent life, then that would have been a different story.

As a GM, I only give out Dark Side Points when a Force power is used in a way that reflects a dark nature. IMO, I see no difference in using Drain Energy to de-activate your opponent's lightsaber to save yourself and using Affect Mind to get a banker to wire a couple thousand credits to your account.


I, however, see them as completely different situations Nova Spice. While neither are heroic actions, one may lead to a heroic action. Using the Force for personal gain is a dark side point right away, it directly and intentionally hurts people, even if the Jedi in question does good with the money.

On the other hand, shutting off an enemy's lightsaber is different. Let's say you shut off his lightsaber, and he runs. Had you not shut off his lightsaber and saved your own life, he is still at large. In order for you to perform a heroic action, you must be alive. There is no question here, self defense is not a dark side action.

I don't see this as an issue at all. I feel the Jedi did the right thing to save future lives, rather than throw his own away.

Welcome Dread Pirate Roberts.

Kyle Pantrakahs
5 April 2004, 12:27 PM
I've wondered about the question myself. JD Wiker gave an answer in the first Jedi Counseling here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/sw20021031counseling) And IIRC, he talked about it a bit more in-depth in a later issue of the Q&A feature, but I don't have the exact link for that at the moment.

Drain Energy is a dark side skill because it was based on a scene from Kevin J. Anderson's Dark Apprentice. On page 338 of that book, Kyp Durron drains the energy from Luke Skywalker's lightsaber, using an effect that speaks of a "wave of dark ripples," a "shadow" appearing at the core of the blade, and "a black taint." To us, that said "dark side." Now, that might not have been Kevin Anderson's intention, but since no other character in the Star Wars novels have used that power, Anderson's text is the only information we have on this ability.

So that's why Drain Energy awards a DSP. But as far as things like situational ethics with Force-using, and the mystery of how there can there be a light side and dark side if the Force is neutral...well I love discussing those things, but I probably should get started. I'd be here long into the night. ;)

Rogue Janson
5 April 2004, 01:34 PM
yup, that's the basic reason Drain Energy gives you DSPs. Because the skill comes from a novel, where it clearly draws on the dark side. And that's that, as far as the game designers are concerned.

Here (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8418&highlight=drain+energy+a+dark+side+skill) and here (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7266&highlight=drain+energy+a+dark+side+skill) are just two of the threads in the D20 forum on the subject.

I'll add a point I made in one of those threads. While one instance of drain energy being a dark side power isn't much of a statistical sample, have you ever seen any light-side Jedi use it? (hint: no)
Considering how useful it would be avoiding conflict and all, why would Jedi never use it if it wasn't a dark-side power?

Dread Pirate Roberts
5 April 2004, 01:37 PM
Nova, I guess i didn't explain my self enough so here a bit more in depth story.

THis is a Rise of The Empire era game.
My party and i were exploring an old abandoned office building on Coruscant. I, as a Jedi COnsular was sent ther to seek out a dark force emanating from the building. Inside on the second floor we found a couple of humans who attacked us with blasters. Having my own i stunned them after their attack. We found a datapad containing a message in a language none of us understood. I left a couple of friends with the unconcious prisoners so i could get a translator unit from a nearby store. On the first floor two guys with lightsabers apeared and attacked without warning. Wanting tio avoid conflict i shut them off. Then i ignited my own lightsaber and called for them to stand down. They responded with Force Lightningt rendering me unconcious.

Now what i should have said rather than " to save mty butt" is "in self defense"

Rogue Janson
5 April 2004, 02:13 PM
Now what i should have said rather than " to save mty butt" is "in self defense"
Ah, an important lesson in rhetoric you have learnt my young padawan. A Jedi uses the Force only for knowledge and self-defence. Never to save his own butt.

This reminds me of a comment a friend made on the cover of the UAA (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/swrpgacc/177510000).

Me (looking at picture of crazy bar-fight): I don't know what's going on in that picture...
Chivers: Well, the Jedi's just solving the fight.

Dagobah. Swampy scene. Mists drift mysteriously.
Luke: Master Yoda, what's the best way to win a fight?
Yoda (shaking head gravely): no Luke. Win the fight you must not. Solve the fight you must.
Luke: But isn't that the same as winning?
Yoda (wisely): mmmm.