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Stratos
15 June 2004, 04:15 PM
I thought for sure someone would have posted this link already today...

http://www.starwars.com/gaming/other/rpg/news20040614.html

Yay! New Star Wars minis! The new mini pic and packaging looks fantastic! I'm definitely investing in a set or two of these buggers!

- Stratos

Jedi Cahlwyn
15 June 2004, 05:57 PM
THANK you for finally posting a pic of the actual minis!!! They appear slightly better than the first set of D&D minis. I can't wait! :D

Fingon
15 June 2004, 06:25 PM
Ohhhhhh...... 8o

NICE!


Do you know if they're going to have 'generic guys' figures?

Stratos
15 June 2004, 07:02 PM
Here ya go...

http://members.cox.net/ghenghis_ska/FigureGallery.htm

Best I can tell... these are all the images we're aware of presently!

- Stratos

Fingon
15 June 2004, 07:57 PM
Thanks.

How much are they? Feel free to punch me in the face if it says it right there.

Stratos
16 June 2004, 04:50 AM
Entry Packs are currently listed @ $19.99 each

Expansion Packs are listed @ $12.99 each

Kind of steep in comparison to the D&D minis, but that's licensing for ya!

- Stratos

Stratos
16 June 2004, 05:13 AM
More new info keeps rolling out...

http://www.starwars.com/gaming/other/rpg/f20040615/index.html

Be sure to read both pages! Enjoy!

- Stratos

Fingon
16 June 2004, 05:55 AM
Hmmm.... prepained hardened plastic. I'd buy them.

Sithspawn
16 June 2004, 07:26 AM
I've already stopped buying the Star Wars figures to give me money for RPG's, and these are not RPGs.

I do think they look pretty good though, and even if I did change my mind and decide I want to buy them I have just one major problem with the way they're marketed. I'm not a kid any more and I really can't be bothered with 'swapping with mates' or scouring e-bay for that rare mini. I would want to buy the set, and not mess about with this collecting nonsense.

I think I'm just getting old. :hansolo:

Stratos
16 June 2004, 07:32 AM
How can you say these new Miniatures aren't an RPG? They have stats, dice, and a Rebel Storm sourcebook coming out in November. They're just like the D&D... only better because they're Star Wars! :)

I have stopped buying action figures for many reasons... but no that I have, I hope I'll have enough $$ to buy a complete set of these new SW Minis... even the rare ones.

I've never been a collector who tracks down every obscure piece in a line, but the hunt is part of the fun of collecting.

Anyhow, I'm sure I'll have plenty of doubles to trade/sell to people! :)

- Stratos

Greymarch
16 June 2004, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by baileyrecords
How can you say these new Miniatures aren't an RPG? They have stats, dice, and a Rebel Storm sourcebook coming out in November. They're just like the D&D... only better because they're Star Wars! :)- Stratos

These miniatures are NOT a RPG. The rules that come with this game are a cannabalized version of the d20 SW RPG rules. Many people will use these miniatures in their actual SW RPG game, but the rules that come with these miniatures are meant to be used as a table-top strategy game.

I will buy some of these miniatures individually. There are dozens of websites on the internet devoted to selling WoTC minis. Its too expensive and time-consuming to buy box after box of minis, hoping to get certain ones. Remember, the minis that appear in each box are largely random. Getting a full-set by buying boxes will cost you a few hundreds dollars.

Also think about this...the more popular these minis are, the less likely you will see any true d20 SW RPG books in the future. WoTC will not publish any SW RPG books from July to December. They are putting out the minis instead. What do you think WoTC will do if these minis sell well? Its pretty obvious. The will focus on the minis in 2005, and we wont get anymore SW RPG books.

I wouldnt be surprised if the d20 SW RPG dies off, and WoTC only does SW minis in 2005.

Stratos
16 June 2004, 09:47 AM
I disagree.

True these Minis are a table-top d20 cannibalization of a purer RPG... but that's ok. That's the trend of the market. I'm going to buy them as an aide to my existing d20 SW-RPG. Not instead of. I plan to customize and kit-bash these little plastic figurines to better represent my actual characters and I'll buy them as a set for the "actual" heroes & villians of the movies.

But to say that d20 SW-RPG will die out befre the final movie is released is just unlikely. It COULD happen in 2006... but I don't see it happening in `05. Either way... we've got tons of officially published material already and great forums like this Network for new stats... it doesn't mean the d20 game will die just because Hasbro lets us down (again).

D&D hasn't slowed down after the release of it's similar Miniatures game. Why should Star Wars (unless Lucas makes it so).

Ultimately, it'll all fade away at some point because it's a license and it's trendy. WEG's d6 game died. But did it go away? Not for many people. I still have the books. I was still playing it up until about 2 years before the d20 version was released.

SW-RPG isn't going anywhere, regardless of trends and marketing.

- Stratos

johnpatrickmcp
16 June 2004, 01:37 PM
I've said it before and I will say it again, Wizards of the Coast has no intreset in putting out the miniatures as a game aid to the Star Wars D20 RPG. The Star Wars Miniature game is just another way to try and capitalize on the success of the collectable miniature game fad. If they intended the mini's to go along with the RPG than they would sell them in indavidual blister packs and you would not need to buy any additional books or use additional rules. Instead you have to pay $20 to get the started rules set, $13 for additional boosters and more than likely $30 or $40 for the Miniature rule book. Now to make way for this new product, that is supposedly to enhance the RPG, they are only publishing three supplements for the entire year. I have looked at Genosia and the Outer Rim Worlds and it is nothing but dry write ups for planets with a few new stats thrown in. Ultimate Advasaries could be useful If they actually try to give the characters more than just one dimention. And I'm not even sure what the third book is.

I wrote an email to Wizards asking why they were effectively halting production of Role Playing supplements in favor of the new miniature game and the response I got was something to the effect of: "we want to focus on the miniature game becuase we belive that is what people want. And since we are the game designers we know what you want more than you do." I will more than likely buy some of them just to have for my star wars game but other than that I have no intrest. Now if they put out a set that are just starship miniature I will take back all the nasty things I have said and spend a whole crapload of money on them.

Fingon
16 June 2004, 02:19 PM
If they're an RPG or not, the only reason I'd buy them would be as a game aid, instead of taking a penny and saying 'this is a stormtrooper' and can have the stormtrooper.

Stratos
16 June 2004, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Fingon
If they're an RPG or not, the only reason I'd buy them would be as a game aid, instead of taking a penny and saying 'this is a stormtrooper' and can have the stormtrooper.

EXACTLY!

- Stratos

Reverend Strone
16 June 2004, 06:52 PM
WoTC are releasing the miniature line not in competition to the RPG but in concert with it. They are marketing them to appeal to folks who both already play the RPG and want to enhance their gaming experience and also to those who have never played the RPG but might be attracted to this kind of hobby by buying the minis.

Yes, the minis use a stripped down version of the RPG rules, but then so did The Invasion of Theed Adventure Game. They are designed to have the same purpose- to attract new customers. WoTC will hope that these new customers buy the minis and become hooked on playing them. They will also hope that many of those mini players will also become interested in the RPG as a result and begin buying the RPG books as well.

It's simply a way of attracting new customers. It is not the death of the RPG as doom and gloomers continue to profess.

It is a tried and true business model and reflects what is seen in the card game market. Collectible cards and miniatures are a whole lot more attractive to kids in stores than big fat rule books full of words.

Think about it this way-
If a kid walks into a store and has the choice between some miniatures that he can buy and take home to play with immediately, or an RPG sourcebook that is only of use to him if he goes and tracksdown and buys the Core Rule Book as well, then 9 times out of 10 that kid is going to buy the minis. After playing with them for a while he is going to want to expand his play and deepen the experience. He can do that by buying more minis, but he can also go buy the RPG, which you can bet will be advertised to him relentlessly through supplemental material like the "Ultimate Missions" book. Hence WoTC have not only captured a new customer for their mini line, but also potentially found someone who might also buy an RPG that they would usually have left on the shelf.

WoTC are using that attractiveness to capture a new market that may then also help boost sales of the RPG. The RPG has been going for a few years now and it has arguably captured its likely maximum customers already under the current business model. The game cannot survive indefinately if its publishers adopt a head in the sand attitude and keep pumping out more and more specific rule books for an ever dwindling customer base.

The only way to ensure its continued existance is to keep it fresh and find innovative new ways to appeal to new customers. That is what the mini line is.

The RPG will continue. The mini line will only support it and hopefully help ensure its longevity. It may mean less rule books in the short term, but if it works it will mean a longer life for the game overall by revitalising its market.

Codym
17 June 2004, 03:01 AM
The only thing about this line that bugs me is the "collectable" part. Not knowing what I'm going to end up with really peeves me, especially since these are going to be another expense to add to my all ready overburdened paycheck. Other than that, I'll use them whenever I can, no matter which way WOTC intends, even if they're just added to the weird Micro-Machines/Lego hybrid that I use now.

Reverend Strone
17 June 2004, 03:39 AM
Yeah, I can totally sympathise with that sentiment.

Personally I very much doubt I'll bother with the minis myself. I already have a system of paper miniatures that works just fine for me, and the collectability aspect is the last thing my finances need right now, so I'll be passing on them.

Given the choice between minis and a new sourcebook, I would of course prefer the sourcebook, but I can appreciate what purpose they serve for the greater good.

Kale Jerre
17 June 2004, 03:47 AM
Originally posted by Reverend Strone
Yeah, I can totally sympathise with that sentiment.

Personally I very much doubt I'll bother with the minis myself. I already have a system of paper miniatures that works just fine for me, and the collectability aspect is the last thing my finances need right now, so I'll be passing on them.

I want to get my little brother started with the SW RPG and I know that using the minis, along with Dwarven Forge's new sci-fi scenery, would really hook him. Having to buy lots of boosters to get the minis I actually want is really going to annoy me but I know I'll do it anyway, which I would imagine is what WotC is counting on. :(

Stratos
17 June 2004, 04:31 AM
Unfortunately... Hasbro is into collectibility anfd relies heavily on it to make a profit and recoup expenses on licensed materials. Look at the Star Wars action figures (for example)... they are continuously re-released on different cardbacks to keep them "current" all the while "completist collectors" buy tem just so they have no holes in their precious collection. I have a lot of friends who live by this philosophy of collecting. And Hasbro knows it, so they continue to rehash and re-release the same characters over, and over again.

This is no different with the new Miniatures. Hasbro did it for the D&D boosters as well. Each one is weighted as commons or rares or uniques, and it's a grab-bag mentality every thime you buy a new box.

However, Hasbro didn't start this trend... WizKids did with MageKnights & HeroClix. Understand my frustration when Daredevil is on the packaging and I open one up only to get a bunch of pathetic goons and maybe a B-rated hero. Big bummer... but that's part of the game. Heck, competitions are run based on this... with "sealed box games" where a person buys a booster, sits down at the table, everyone open their boxes at the same time and combat begins based solely on the mysterious cntents of that box. That's a version of the game.

As stated before... I look forward to the new Minis as placemarkers for my existing d20 game. I probably will never play with the Minis as Hasbro intended. I have enough games to keep the rules straight as it is.

As also previously stated, I do intend to get a complete set... not as a "collection" but because I want a character of each available just for the fun of it. I also want ones to customize.

So... an option we have in front of us is to create an online trading forum if people are really bothered by the collectibility notion. I might end up with many Bothan spies while trying to fill in the holes of my complete set... and someone out there may desperately want a Bothan as their particular character marker... I'd be willing to buy/sell/trade. Keep the option open, I'm game!

- Stratos

Kale Jerre
17 June 2004, 05:25 AM
Originally posted by baileyrecords
So... an option we have in front of us is to create an online trading forum if people are really bothered by the collectibility notion. I might end up with many Bothan spies while trying to fill in the holes of my complete set... and someone out there may desperately want a Bothan as their particular character marker... I'd be willing to buy/sell/trade. Keep the option open, I'm game!

Sounds good to me, though you might need a lot of Bothans if you're playing out their spy actions for the location of the 2nd Death Star. :D

Ris
17 June 2004, 08:39 AM
There is one thing I find very amusing about this & another thread (Why only 2 SW rpg tin 2004) that touches on minis. As it was put in that other thread,
"minis are not rpg material."
For many years, figs were considered almost as essential as the rulebooks & polyhedron dice. Oh, yes, there were many substitutes (like pennies with stickers on them), mainly before the manufacturers realized there was a market for non-fantasy figs (superheros, SF, etc.) But somewhere along the way this custom died out. I'll be glad to see it return, especially for SW. I wish there were prequel & Clone Wars figs, since that's when I usually run. But I can handle using stormtroopers for ARC troopers. And of course the prices are more than I'm used to paying.

Also, Rev, there may be yet another market they are interested in--wargamers--another hobby my husband & I share. As I understand it, the rules for the minis are so the figs can be used in wargame-type scenarios, as well as for Rpg's.

ij thompson
17 June 2004, 09:10 AM
One word of consolation to everyone, keep in mind that the rarest of these miniatures are likely to be the major characters like Darth Vader and such - characters us rpg players will have little use for, anyway (I'd certainly rather have 16 common Stormtroopers than one rare Emperor Palpatine)! ;)

And there are established, reputable online miniatures trading sites out there; check out http://maxminis.com - though they're just D&D at the moment, I've heard great things about them, and I'm sure they'll pick up on Star Wars when the time comes. :)

Dr_Worm
17 June 2004, 09:32 AM
Personally I have two issues with the current trend:
[list=1]
As stated before the marketing does nothing to assist RPGers. people say they are sick and tired of using pennies for Troopers, well trust me unless you are spend huge ammounts of money you will effectively be doing the same thing. You see, I bought some of the D&D mineatures for use with my D&D campaign. I bought a starter pack and 2 boosters, and even at a discount this cost more than $30.00. I bought them so we could better represent our characters when using minis, becuse we were tired of using dice to represent them. Now what do we have? Well my Dwarven Bard is best represented by some little fire elemental dude; the human druid's figure has armor and a sword; the elven paladin looks like your typical palace gaurd; and all the baddies are represented by some kobolds, a couple wolves, and some zombies, regardless of what the creature actually is. So essebtially after spending $30.00 we are no more close to representing our characters than we were with dice. The marketing makes them a really lame RPG aid. Sure you can go and get some individual pieces from 3rd party sights but you will pay a premium for them.

I really lament the direction that WotC took D20 in with regards to miniature play. Now, rather than it being an option for groups that want to do it, it is almost essential. In D&D and SW the rules increasingly refer to miniatures when discussing combat rules. I remember the days when you could play 90% of your D&D encounters only using your mind and maybe a sketched out map; reserving the minis for the big complicated encounters. Now, so that WotC can sell more products, they have moved D20 more and more towards making it a strategy board game. You do not need a seperate minis rulebook, because the RPG books revolve around the use of minis. SW starship combat is a great example. Unless you use the old D20 rules your a really stuck using some sort of gameboard for Starship combat. I recall very fondly the days of sitting aroung the livingroom with our character sheets, ship stats, and dice; needing only our imagination to picture the ensuing dogfight. you simply cannot do that with the current system. I understand it is a matter of preference as some people like a more tacticle game. The problem I have is that WotC has decided not to provide an official alternative to a mini's based game, and instead has made it so that those of us that want to run an abstract starship combat system have to improvise.

The figs are pretty poor quality. The painting is not great, but that does not surprise me really. After all it is a mass produced product. What really drives me nuts is the soft plastic and the poor packaging. It will really suck to have your Gammorean weilding a Vibro-axe that is curved like a bow becuse it was laying poorly in the box. The plastic is soft and once it is misshappen, it is tough to get back in to shape. I don't think I have one D&D fig that has has a straight sword...they all seem to be weilding scimitars.
[/list=1]

Does all of this mean I will not buy the figs? I don't know. I know that the poor quality of the product makes them an inherently flawed colectable. I may pick a few up if I see something I like, but I cannot see myself buying many.

Ris
17 June 2004, 12:09 PM
Dr. W, Thanks for the info. I would think at those prices, they would be better than that. Of course, in my home we were spoiled by the 15 & 25mm lead figs put out for both rpg's and traditional wargames, even if you did have to paint them yourself--something I was quite good at. But I haven't seen the rpg ones for sale for years.
I don't know if we'll actually buy any. Maybe a starter, just to see. Our son--and possibly his sister--might like to try playing it. They're at least mildly interested in our rpg sessions & he likes the basic card game package he got. So at least it would get some use, even if we didn't like it.

Greymarch
17 June 2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Reverend Strone
WoTC are releasing the miniature line not in competition to the RPG but in concert with it. They are marketing them to appeal to folks who both already play the RPG and want to enhance their gaming experience and also to those who have never played the RPG but might be attracted to this kind of hobby by buying the minis.

The RPG will continue. The mini line will only support it and hopefully help ensure its longevity. It may mean less rule books in the short term, but if it works it will mean a longer life for the game overall by revitalising its market.

Two questions about the above quote...

1. Where are you getting this information? Do you work for WoTC? Have you spoken to someone who works for WoTC? The first paragraph of the quote clearly is in conflict with reality. The minis are being released without any SW RPG book-support. The last RPG book was UA (being released tomorrow), and the minis are being released in August and November. We have no proof whatsoever that we will be getting any RPG books in 2005.

2. How do you know that the RPG will continue? Can you provide us with links to your information?

You might be right about your assumptions, but you sound like you work for WoTC, and have some kind of information that the rest of us do not. It would be nice if you could provide links, or some kind of concrete proof to the statements you make.

Tossk
17 June 2004, 01:49 PM
I agree with the Reverend. The minis will be bought b may RPGers, as it appears on this very thread, and help create a base for the RPG. This could also explain the shortage of books, so the gamers will have enough money to invest in the minis, while still putting out a few books just to prove the RPG line isn't dead. In addition, the mini buyers who move up to the RPG won't have so many books out that rerference one another as top entirely drian them of cash or scare them off by having too many products that are essential in one form or another.

It's not dead yet, Greymarch. Not for a while. ;)

White 5
17 June 2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Greymarch


Two questions ...

1. Where are you getting this information? Do you work for WoTC? Have you spoken to someone who works for WoTC? The first paragraph of the quote clearly is in conflict with reality. The minis are being released without any SW RPG book-support. The last RPG book was UA (being released tomorrow), and the minis are being released in August and November. We have no proof whatsoever that we will be getting any RPG books in 2005.

2. How do you know that the RPG will continue? Can you provide us with links to your information?

You might be right about your assumptions, but you sound like you work for WoTC, and have some kind of information that the rest of us do not. It would be nice if you could provide links, or some kind of concrete proof to the statements you make.

I refer you to the front page for the SWRPG Network.

http://www.swrpgnetwork.com/index.php?

And to the link to Christopher West's web page and his referance to the following information.

"'Ultimate Missions: Rebel Storm'--a sourcebook due out in November for the Star Wars miniatures line--will expand your Star Wars miniatures experience and empower you to mix it up with the little plastic stormtroopers in whole new ways (and places). It will also happen to include more cartography work by yours truly...an all-new double-sided poster map and additional terrain pieces!

I can't yet reveal the specifics, but rest assured that this book will add some welcome variety to your rebellion-era skirmishes!"

Codym
17 June 2004, 03:57 PM
Sorry Greymarch, but you sound a little paranoid there. What is it about the minitures release that makes it sound like WOTC is ending (or even concidering ending) the SW RPG line? Especially with the Original Trilogy DVDs and Episode III around the corner, which will be the two best times to capitilize on the Star Wars name brand recognition.

Reverend Strone
17 June 2004, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Greymarch


Two questions about the above quote...

1. Where are you getting this information? Do you work for WoTC? Have you spoken to someone who works for WoTC? The first paragraph of the quote clearly is in conflict with reality. The minis are being released without any SW RPG book-support. The last RPG book was UA (being released tomorrow), and the minis are being released in August and November. We have no proof whatsoever that we will be getting any RPG books in 2005.

2. How do you know that the RPG will continue? Can you provide us with links to your information?

You might be right about your assumptions, but you sound like you work for WoTC, and have some kind of information that the rest of us do not. It would be nice if you could provide links, or some kind of concrete proof to the statements you make.

Fair enough. Let me see if I can allay your fears...

1) I am a freelance artist. I do work for WoTC in that capacity. I take some measure of umbridge to you saying my statement is at odds with reality, but perhaps that is simply because you are unaware of what's coming out this Fall. White5 has already pointed to the mainpage article in which Chris West talks about the Ultimate Missions book coming out later this year. I can confirm this even further by saying that I am illustrating for that book, so I have some insight into what is going into it.

2) How do I know the RPG is going to continue? How do you know it isn't?

I have been given no indication by my Art Directors that WoTC are cancelling the RPG.

WoTC pay their freelance contributors in full before the books are released, which means all the money is spent before they hit shelves. We know Moridin has already written Ultimate Battlestations, so even though this book has been shifted back from its original release date of late this year, to not release it at all after paying for it would only mean WoTC loosing money for nothing. Even if the game were to be canned, I would expect completed books to still be sold to help recoup costs.

Episode III comes out next year. Are you telling me that WoTC, having bought the RPF license, won't take advantage of the marketing bonanza that is the release of the last SW film to sell RPG books? Of course they'll have something out to coincide with that movie next year. It's a golden chance to attract more people to the game.

Also, Gen Con has often marked a time of year for announcements by RPG companies. I would expect that announcements for what we can expect in the new year may come then. It doesn't surprise me that WoTC have mnade no abnnouncements in the past few months about next year's lineup. I would expect them to wait till the Con or after to do so.

Then there's also the website. Every week WoTC release up to four new SW RPG items on their website. That is free material. Why would they continue to pay for that if the game was going to be canned?

I guess I just don't understand why people would think that a new product necessarily heralds the death of the RPG. I can't see any evidence to support that theory at this stage. If the game does get canned then I will graciously eat my words, but right now I just can't see the evidence supprting that theory. It seems to me to be needless anxiety.

Hope that helps.

Bram Corolev
17 June 2004, 06:38 PM
When is the next Gen Con?

Reverend Strone
17 June 2004, 08:10 PM
August 19 -22 in Indy... (http://www.gencon.com/indyhome.aspx?file=indy)

White 5
18 June 2004, 06:41 AM
Thanks again to Reverend Strone for the update, and his continuing dedication to SW gaming. I really liked your work for UA, and look forward to seeing more in the Minis book when it is released.

Treefrog
21 June 2004, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Codym
Sorry Greymarch, but you sound a little paranoid there. What is it about the minitures release that makes it sound like WOTC is ending (or even concidering ending) the SW RPG line? Especially with the Original Trilogy DVDs and Episode III around the corner, which will be the two best times to capitilize on the Star Wars name brand recognition.

And yet, we don't have any new rpg books slated after UA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If they wanted to capitalize on both of the release of the DVD's, and the release of Ep. III, they would have at least two rpg books for September, and November. But no, Ultimate Battlestations gets yanked after Moridin announced that UB would be released in Sept. and who knows when anything specifically for the rpg will be released.

McRage
22 June 2004, 03:17 AM
I was thinking about the minis they are releasing now, trying to decide if this is something that I would like to get or not.

It is great to have figures representing the players and their advesaries, but at least in my games we wont be running into any of the main characters in the films, especially not in a combat encounter. I fear that this will make many of the figures unwanted in my games.

Also, grunt types will be more wanted than high level characters. I hate the thought of having 2 stormtroopers, but 3 officers or somehing like that.

Heck... If I get a Luke dude he will surely be converted to a 'generic' jedi anyways. IF I would get the minis it wouldnt be to play a miniature game with them, it would be to complement our roleplaying needs.

Ahhh... thinking of it makes me more and more dislike the idea of random guys... Well... I will prob wait until I see more of the figures anyway.

What material are they made of anyway?

Fingon
22 June 2004, 05:48 AM
They look like hardened platic, but that's nothing an exacto knife, paints, and GREENSTUFF wouldn't fix.

johnpatrickmcp
24 June 2004, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by Fingon
They look like hardened platic, but that's nothing an exacto knife, paints, and GREENSTUFF wouldn't fix.

Amen to that, I am an avid player of Warhammer 40k and Necromunda (Games Workshop) and I can work miricles of conversion with just a little green stuff (it goes along way). I was actually pretty impressed with the lead mini's WotC put out for Star Wars and I will probably pick up enough mini's to represnt my characters. But, I will probably get mine off E-bay.

Sithspawn
24 June 2004, 08:30 AM
Another thought about the mini's.

RPGer's will probably want a bucket load of Stormtroopers. I know it's probably unlikely, but what if the Stormtrooper is the RARE mini. Unless WOTC include plenty of Stormtroopers, at which point the mini gamers will get fed up of the doubles. Sure there''s ebay, but not every gamer uses that. WOTC really have to get the balance right.

Reverend Strone
24 June 2004, 02:43 PM
RPGer's will probably want a bucket load of Stormtroopers. I know it's probably unlikely, but what if the Stormtrooper is the RARE mini. Unless WOTC include plenty of Stormtroopers, at which point the mini gamers will get fed up of the doubles. Sure there''s ebay, but not every gamer uses that. WOTC really have to get the balance right.

I'm sure WoTC have considered that. I'd be very surprised if the Stormies and other army-builder type characters aren't common. Reading their statements about the minis suggests to me that it will be special unique characters that are rare- I mean, how many Leias or Vaders does a gamer need? I have to wonder too whether power might relate directly to commonailty too- with more powerful characters being rarer to help keep game play balanced? That's what I'd do anyway.

McRage
27 June 2004, 10:49 AM
Having seen the pictures put up by Moridin I am not sure of the quality of these minis. They look like the old cowboys and indians I used to play with as a kid (And that was MORE than twenty years ago), only painted worse.
Either the quality of the figure are really bad or they are covered in a really thick layer of paint removing all finer details. Just look at the face of that Luke character (At least I am guessing its Luke)... Where is that face anyway?!?... and the eyes?!? Not a good choice of minis to put on a promotion stand anyway... I doubt there will ba an easy way to strip the prepainted paint if youd like to repaint them. It is hard to make a good look on a mini that has allready been soaked in a bad paintjob...

The thin bits look like they are bending, meaning that they are not modled in the same type of plastic as Warhammer plasics, as these would brake or bend sharper. Alas the SW minis are made of a softer more bendable plastic and is thus not very easy to convert. I am hoping that this is not the case, but I am pretty sure my assumptions are right.

And one more thing... the bases seem to bee different sizes, why?!?

Ok, I know a prepainted mini can only be so good for a certain amount of cost. But these are certinly not the kind of quality I had hoped for.
I hope that someone will be able to pick up a few minis and post a review of them, it would be nice to hear. I really hope you can prove my assumptions wrong.

Stratos
27 June 2004, 06:23 PM
Hmmm.... McRage, I totally disagree with you. Having seen, held, and demo'd the new SW Miniatures at Origins this past weekend, several times, I think I have a fairly honest assessment of the new minis... and not having seen Moridin's photos yet... I can say that Han, the Stormtrooper, the Tuskin, and the freebie Mon Cal Merc are all fantastic! The paint applications on each blow any previously release D&D (new) mini and any WizKids Mage Knight or HeroClix mini out of the water!!! As for Luke... the promo... yes, "promo" figure... was damaged. His face is disfigured. This error most assuredly has been fixed. In fact, Rob the WoTC demo'r., was worried about even showing the Luke mini because of the production error - I guess he was right since the line is now receiving unwarranted flack based on one damaged promo example.

Anyhow, I'm totally psyched about the line. The packaging, the maps, the cards, the minis - all top notch!

As for different base sizes... that is "wierd" but it's compliant with the new D&D minis... the bigger the size of the character, the larger the base. Jawas are smaller than Gamorrean Guards... and therefore need less plastic to support their smaler mass.

- Stratos

McRage
27 June 2004, 08:41 PM
Thanks for the comments baileyrecords.
I really hope you are right about this, most of the time that is a common reaction when you see something new. Either you thing its great or really bad. Especially if you have been waiting for something and pictured it in your mind before seeing the true product.

How are the minis from a converters point of view. Do the plastic feel firm or is the arms slightly bendable?

Stratos
28 June 2004, 04:06 AM
No sweat!

The miniatures are slightly bendable but I think they'll customize well. I plan to repaint and if necessary kitbash minis to make figures that resemble my characters and I don't foresee this to be much of a problem.

- Stratos

GunStar4
28 June 2004, 01:05 PM
After talking to several WotC workers at Origins, I found the following:

1. Replacing the RPG stats on the mini cards with illustrations of the figures was a Lucasfilm decision.

2. There are Large-sized (the ones with the larger bases) figures in the set. The one I saw was a wampa (in the rulebook), the other large figures will probably be creatures as well.

3. The different poses for the stormtroopers indicate troopers of different experience or special armament.

4. Unlike the D&D miniatures game, there seems to be no difference between ranged and melee attacks. The attack bonuses and damage are the same whether you're shooting someone from across the room or punching them in the face. This is based solely on the rulebook and preview Mon Cal Mercenary. (Jedi and figures with obvious melee weapons will hopefully be different.)


I know from experience with the D&D minis, if you heat them with a hairdryer they will become maleable, then can be submerged in cold water to achieve a new pose.

Greymarch
28 June 2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Reverend Strone
I guess I just don't understand why people would think that a new product necessarily heralds the death of the RPG. I can't see any evidence to support that theory at this stage. If the game does get canned then I will graciously eat my words, but right now I just can't see the evidence supprting that theory. It seems to me to be needless anxiety.

Hope that helps.

There is more evidence that the RPG is going to be cancelled, than evidence that it wont be cancelled. Here are just a few points:

1. No new RPG books this year. This speaks for itself.

2. No word from WoTC that the RPG line will continue. Surely the kids who work at WoTC read these messageboards, and the official ones at WoTC website. The rumors have been spreading for months that the game would be cancelled. A simple post from ANY official WoTC employee would forever squash those rumors.

3. The content on the official WoTC SW RPG website has been growing weaker and weaker. Also, if you really look at the content, there is less and less of it each week. The content for each week's update is usually a planet hopper article, written months in advance that WoTC has been holding onto, a Jedi Counseling update, which JD writes in his spare time, and a fictional article from someone who belongs to the SW RPGA. What happened to the modules they use to publish? What happened to the NPCs they use to publish? What happened to the errata they use to publish? What happened the prestige classes they use to publish? The articles they are publishing now, IMO, are the ones they either have held onto for a while, or they can create rather quickly. The content at the official website has DRAMATICALLY declined in quality. I consider this further proof that the RPG will disappear.

4. You might be illustrating for Ultimate Missions (I have to assume you mean Ultimate Battlestations), but will your artwork get used for that book? I suspect WoTC has the right to use your artwork however it sees fit. If you meant Ultimate Battlestations, then we already know it has been at least postponed till 2005. If you meant you are helping illustrate a book that works with the minis, then your artwork has nothing to do with the SW RPG game. The SW RPG game, and the minis are two completely different beasts. Also, just because you have illustrated for Ultimate Battlestations doesnt mean they will release the book. It might be cheaper for WoTC to simply soak the cash they have spent on the artists and writers, and not release the book, than to publish the book, and no one buys it because the market has been saturated by SW minis.

If you can get an official response from WoTC that the artwork you are working on, right now, is for the Ultimate Battlestations book, which will be released in the future, then I will begin to question whether WoTC is cancelling the RPG line.

5. The quote from Susan a few days ago is further proof. I read the quote myself at the official SW forums.

Reverend Strone
28 June 2004, 03:01 PM
I think there is a whole thread already devoted to this debate Greymarch. Let's not hyjack this one with another debate about the RPG.

Korpil
1 July 2004, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by GunStar4
After talking to several WotC workers at Origins, I found the following:

1. Replacing the RPG stats on the mini cards with illustrations of the figures was a Lucasfilm decision.


So, there will be no RPG stats at all? Not even in a separate manual or an additional card?

Stratos
1 July 2004, 07:02 PM
Yes, there is a SW Miniatures Sourcebook titled Rebel Storm coming out soon after the initial minis hit the market in September (3rd!).

- Stratos

Reverend Strone
1 July 2004, 07:53 PM
Yup, that's right. Rebel Storm- Ultimate Missions to be precise. I was lucky enough to land an illustration gig on it. While I know only a little about it based on what I had to draw, and can't talk about any of the specifics yet, it sounds like it'll be a good book. :)

I must admit, while I had serious doubts about the quality of the minis based on what I have seen of the D&D line and had no intention of buying any, the images of these SW ones that have appeared online recently and Moridin's reports from Origins have gone a long way towards making me a potential customer. At the moment I'm going to wait and see, but I must say they're actually looking a tonne better than I had expected.

ij thompson
1 July 2004, 10:20 PM
Have you seen any of the new Giants of Legend D&D minis?

Looking at them, it's pretty hard to find something to complain about...

Stratos
26 April 2007, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by johnpatrickmcp
I've said it before and I will say it again, Wizards of the Coast has no intreset in putting out the miniatures as a game aid to the Star Wars D20 RPG.

<snip>

Now if they put out a set that are just starship miniature I will take back all the nasty things I have said and spend a whole crapload of money on them.

Ok, I mean no offense to john but I just thought these two quotes from nearly three years ago were now humorous in light of both the Starship Battles game that came out over the holidays and with Saga being released in May... specifically with Minis in mind.

I also found it interesting that the very first post for Minis on the Holonet is by me (at least in this category). Very fitting.

wolverine
3 June 2007, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Dr_Worm
Personally I have two issues with the current trend:
[list=1]
As stated before the marketing does nothing to assist RPGers. people say they are sick and tired of using pennies for Troopers, well trust me unless you are spend huge ammounts of money you will effectively be doing the same thing. You see, I bought some of the D&D mineatures for use with my D&D campaign. I bought a starter pack and 2 boosters, and even at a discount this cost more than $30.00. I bought them so we could better represent our characters when using minis, becuse we were tired of using dice to represent them. Now what do we have? Well my Dwarven Bard is best represented by some little fire elemental dude; the human druid's figure has armor and a sword; the elven paladin looks like your typical palace gaurd; and all the baddies are represented by some kobolds, a couple wolves, and some zombies, regardless of what the creature actually is. So essebtially after spending $30.00 we are no more close to representing our characters than we were with dice. The marketing makes them a really lame RPG aid. Sure you can go and get some individual pieces from 3rd party sights but you will pay a premium for them.


I will agree with ya there. I know some people who spent 90 bucks on packs, just so they could make a full squad of stormtroopers. Which is why i wish they would actually MAKE sets specifically for those type of groups...

Sithspawn
3 June 2007, 10:55 PM
Looking back at my own comments I was so negative about the minis. And now I'm mad about them and have completed every set including A&E.

eBay has been my friend when in comes to army building - not that I actually build large armies, I prefer SWM as the skirmish game it's meant to be :)

Stratos
4 June 2007, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by Sithspawn
Looking back at my own comments I was so negative about the minis. And now I'm mad about them and have completed every set including A&E.

Wow! Congrats on completing them all! I'm waiting on the second printing of A&E for the regular round bases!

Sithspawn
4 June 2007, 09:02 AM
Visually I don't mind the square bases one bit. Storage wise they're a bit of a pain though.

Admiral Zaarin
4 June 2007, 02:55 PM
Visually I don't mind the square bases one bit. Storage wise they're a bit of a pain though.
I agree entirely. Visually, I think they're awesome; but they do take up a lot of space. :(

Stratos
4 June 2007, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Sithspawn
Visually I don't mind the square bases one bit. Storage wise they're a bit of a pain though.

Gee... and I disagree with you. :) Visually I think they're awful and they take up space. To each his own!

Darth Jerrod
4 June 2007, 03:41 PM
Taking up too much space? I just throw everything into a storage bin :D Well they are seperated into bags for things like Rebels and such.