View Full Version : It's True. Lucas has screwed up the Original Trilogy. Offical Proof inside

Talon Razor 'GM'
9 September 2004, 06:10 PM

"It's...like a million voices cried out in pain....and were suddenly silenced."


9 September 2004, 06:24 PM
I'm going to move this to Rants & Raves, as it seems to fit that better.

Talon Razor 'GM'
9 September 2004, 06:27 PM
Thanks. I was clouded by anger when posting.

Actually, it's not that bad. No Jar-Jar, which would have resulted in me stabbing my eyes. With pokers.

Red-hot pokers.

9 September 2004, 06:35 PM
There really isn't an appropriate smiley for the emotion I wish to express. It's not outrage, or sadness, but complete resignation. There's nothing we can do to change what's on the DVD's, except perhaps hope that Lucas releases the originals on DVD. If he did, he'd make more money from the true Star Wars fans, so I would think that might be a prudent business choice.

Anyway, I'm actually curious to see how the new scenes in ESB work out, and I don't have a problem with Naboo being in the end of ROTJ. Of course I'm sure most other people here feel that Lucas should not have changed Anakin's ghost, although if you think about it from Lucas' point of view it does make at least some sense. The way it is in the originals, Anakin's ghost is a whole version of Anakin, without scars, burns, or lack of organs. So one way of thinking about the new version (yes, this has been mentioned before) is that the ghost is a representation of Anakin before he turned evil. Although I personally like the restored version of the old Anakin.

Anyway, enough rambling. Your thoughts?

9 September 2004, 06:39 PM
Well the replacement of Anakin is dumb along the lines of "Greedo shooting first" but aside from that I'm okay with the changes tho I wished they added more sceens to the space battle of Endor.

Nova Spice
9 September 2004, 07:03 PM
Like it or hate it, with the advent of the Prequels, the Original Trilogy is bound to be changed multiple times to "fit the vision."

Other than the changes being somewhat irritating, I don't have any problem with it.

And as Talon mentioned, as long as no Jar-Jar is added. Should that happen, I do believe red hot pokers would be in order.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
9 September 2004, 08:02 PM
Thats the whole problem with doing pre-quels and the money & technology and desire to "match" things up more closely between the prequrelsa and the legacy made before it... If the prequels were made in the 80's or 90's, ol' G.L would've been out of luck and had to made-due with what was availble back then...

Guess we can hope the originals will eventually b re-leased...

and if they do another 3: 7, 8 & 9 ... then we'll only need worry about the events established in the EU and what G.L decides to 'en-vision' ...

9 September 2004, 09:33 PM
anakin being replaced makes sense though, as sebastian shaw wouldn't be IMMEDIATLY RECKONGIZEABLE as anakin

9 September 2004, 09:41 PM
Except that Sebastian Shaw's face is shown when Luke unmasks Darth Vader not ten minutes before the ending.

9 September 2004, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Erokh
Except that Sebastian Shaw's face is shown when Luke unmasks Darth Vader not ten minutes before the ending.
Does anyone know if Hayden Christensen's face will be the one in the armor just before Anakin/Vader dies? If not, then the Jedi spirit scene would only make sense if the viewer has seen Episode II. That's just ridiculous. There are plenty of people I know who've never seen Star Wars, and I want the DVDs to be a great way to introduce them to what I consider the better half of the films. I shouldn't have to say, "Well, it would make sense if you saw the prequels."

10 September 2004, 06:31 AM
It seems to me that if Lucas was so worried about inconsistencies, he should have done a better job thinking through the prequals.

10 September 2004, 07:27 AM
As far as I know the only change made to Anakin in the Vader armor is the removal of the eyebrows. What I find funny is the video on starwars.com discussing how the makeup artists watched the Vader dehelmeting scene over and over to get the scars on young Anakin correct. If so, then why did they have to change the ORIGINAL movie to match what they did in the prequel?

10 September 2004, 09:54 AM
The guys at IGN have a lot to say about the new release. There's something for everyone in here (http://dvd.ign.com/articles/545/545786p1.html)

Rogue Janson
10 September 2004, 10:54 AM
Looking at the IGN list, unless you're one of those people who think any change to the films is destroying an original document, then I can only see a couple of things that are bad or potentially bad here.

A lot of the special effects retouches, particularly the lightsabres and rancor are welcome. The change to the Han & Greedo scene is like they're trying to compromise between the SE and originals, so it's a step in the right direction... Refilmed ESB scenes with Ian McDiarmid sounds good as long as they don't stand out (which they probably won't). Temuera Morrison doing Bobla Fett lines is a little suspect but shouldn't really be a problem unless you love Jeremy Bullock (it's not like he has many lines, and his voice is filtered through his helmet anyway). New dialogue could be dodgy, but we'll have to see. Naboo in the RotJ celebrations - who cares?

The only really big change is Hayden Christianson in RotJ. That doesn't sound too good, especially given what Jedi_Stallis said. It makes it seem like Anakin hasn't developed beyond the reckless youth we see in the prequels, whereas having an older looking spirit makes him seem closer to Obi-Wan, old and wise.

10 September 2004, 11:26 AM
One thing I do like about Naboo being in the final scenes is that is answers a question: What the heck happend to Naboo durring the empire's reign. As far as I know this is actually the first official inidcation that it was still a habitable and existant planet. One of the problems with making a prequel is that you eaither have to stick to only things metioned in the OT, or provide a valid reason why the new things are not present in the OT. We never see Naboo pop up in EU, as far as I know, post Rebellion era, so this little snippit at least will give us a hint that it is still around. Gungans are one of the best aliens in the game, but when I play them I always kinda fudge the background and ignore the fate of Naboo.

I could be wrong, I guess, I am not the most knowledgable guy when it comes to EU.

Rogue Janson
10 September 2004, 01:43 PM
Naboo isn't mentioned in any of the post-RotJ EU. There's a Jedi counselling question on this in a past session in which JD said there's no info and we'll have to wait and see. This does seem to confirm that Naboo survived the Imperial era, though I suppose there's always the chance it won't be the beautiful peaceful planet we know...

10 September 2004, 02:59 PM
My thoughts are: I won't be buying these DVDs. I love Star Wars, but the Star Wars movies I fell in love with are practically unrecognizable anymore with all the butchery that's been done to them. I see no reason to support Lucas and his decisions by spending another nickel on Star Wars stuff. In fact, I'm seriously thinking about selling off my SW-RPG collection.

Which makes me sad to think about, but I'm just tired. Like Erokh, my feeling is one of resignation. The fact is, Lucas created a great mileu, and then flushed it down the toilet. I have little to no respect for him anymore, at all, and that just stinks.

If they ever release the OT, the real OT without all the extra crap, I'll be first in line to buy it.

10 September 2004, 03:52 PM
umm whats WRONG with the "extra crap"

10 September 2004, 04:22 PM
I don't think all the changes made to the SEs are necessarily bad. The creatures added to Mos Eisley, the reshoots of the space battle FX, and the alterations made to Cloud City are all great and justifiable updates. However, there are plenty I find wanting. A quick rundown of examples:

<LI>Greedo shoots first: bad idea, worse execution. Not just a lousy moment, but one that completely throws me out of the movie because it looks so bad.

<LI>CGI Jabba: questionable idea, poor execution. Not to mention that Han's statement "we're a little rushed" no longer makes sense with this scene added, and undermines a lot of Jabba's looming sense of menace. ("Give me my money Han." "I don't have it." "Oh, okay. Thanks for killing my henchman.")

<LI>Adding Luke's scream as he falls down the airshaft in ESB: Same sound bite as Emperor's scream in ROTJ. Sloppy, slipshod and didn't need to be done.

<LI>Changing Vader's line at the end of ESB from "bring my shuttle" to "I'm a crappy James Earl Jones impersonator." Why would anyone do this? the line's important enough to change (to an inferior line, IMHO), but not important to get James Earl Jones in for some voice work?

<LI>Busby-Berkeley style musical number in Jabba's Palace in ROTJ: A sick joke.

The DVD will punch up the lightsaber effects, and purportedly cleans up the Greedo and Jabba scenes, which is fine, although I feel the films did just fine without them in the first place. Among the changes the DVD edition makes that I don't feel I need to see:

<LI>Replacing all the Stormtrooper voices and Fett's voice with Temuera Morrison: What the hell? I really like the original Stormtrooper voices, and Fett's voice.

Yes, it's a minor point, but something I -really enjoy- about the movies; now it's going to be as if those things that I liked never existed. Because this is the new "definitive edition" until Lucas changes it again. And yeah, because I have watched the movies many, many times, I am going to be bothered by this when suddenly everything's different. I want the movies that made me a Star Wars fan in the first place. But no. They "don't exist anymore."

<LI>Replacing Sebastian Shaw's Anakin with Hayden Christiansen: Does a disservice to Sebastian Shaw, who deserves better than to just be unceremoniously written out of this scene, and just doesn't need to be done. As some fan pointed out on the review site, why not replace Alec Guinness with Ewan MacGregor while we're at it? Seriously, that's just lame.

The one thing I will say is a positive change is replacing the crazy Emperor-looking guy with Ian McDiarmid. That's a change that's long overdue and should have been done in the original Special Editions. In fact, that was one of the things that really struck me as sloppy about the original SEs, that they would add in all this superfluous junk that didn't need changing, while leaving one of the most glaring inconsistencies in the series untouched.

Eh. I went on at length despite my saying to myself I wouldn't. Sorry. Hope I don't kill the thread again!

10 September 2004, 04:54 PM
Replacing all the Stormtrooper voices and Fett's voice with Temuera Morrison: What the hell? I really like the original Stormtrooper voices, and Fett's voice.

yeah but they all sound diffrent. can't have that as they are clones.

10 September 2004, 04:58 PM
I had no problem believing they were clones for the last 25 years, as was very often speculated long before the prequels came out. Changing the voices isn't going to somehow improve that now.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
10 September 2004, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by dgswensen
I had no problem believing they were clones for the last 25 years, as was very often speculated long before the prequels came out. Changing the voices isn't going to somehow improve that now.

Well my good friend, that's one thing for me thats gonna royally suck... Oh yeah sure, the clone wars had clones... whoop-dee-doo, that was then... I don't buy it that theres still untold millions of stormies that are the same type of clones...

C'mon, what happened to all the "Join the Empire" type signup propoganda that we all know of? The training academys at Caridia?

Right, thats why all the stardestroyer personel arn't clones, all the imperial officers arn't clones...

It's one thing to be a perfectionist, but... G.L is just re-inventing the wheel each time he thinks about it...
Gah... as someone had said at one of the review sites "G.L has polished his diamond into dust..."

The stupid thing is - ILM still makes millions each time G.L decides to re-do his movies... They're not likely gonna stop anytime soon or there wouldn't already be rumors of another dvd release later down the road... And hey, if there does become a 7, 8 & 9 episodes, i'm willing to bet G.L's gonna go back and re-vamp even more stuff in the original trilogy to fit / match-up into the next 3 episodes...

But hey, want to know something? This is not something that would make me throw away my sw stuff or sw-rpg collection... The thing is, no-matter how many times G.L decides to re-work his movie vision - G.L can't wave his magic "digital wand" and suddenly erase and change everything's thats been already written and printed in the materials that exist in our libraries - source books, novels, comics, vhs tapes, laser disks... G.L isn't about to invent a time-maching anytime soon, so what I know and have is what still holds true to me...

10 September 2004, 07:05 PM
When I saw Star Wars (no bloody New Hope) in 1977, I was nine years old. To say the least I was not an accomplished film critic. As a matter of fact, it was probably the third (yes Third) movie I had ever seen in my life. So the movie going experience much less the SW experience, was very new to me.

When I saw the movie that day (it happened to be my mom's birthday), it changed my life. The film itself could have been anything, to some degree (whether Greedo shot first was not important to me, or the quality of the spaceship scenes). The Spirit of the movie captured me and threw me into a huge interest of space and space sciences, like astronomy, aerospace and physics.

When the SE came out in 1997, I was of course, 29 years old. I saw the films more as an artistic piece as opposed to a space adventure. But one thing I thought to myself: I shouldn't judge these versions in a different way I judged the first versions. I did a lot of growing up and living in 20 years and any comparitive feelings would be somewhat invalid. So I did the next best thing - I watched the SE as a 9-year-old instead of a 29 year old. I didn't feel different. The films didn't change enough to me to make a difference, and heck I liked them better, if possible.

When Phantom Menace and AOTC came out, I tried to view them in the same way. I didn't look at the acting or the continuity or the quality of the film. I looked at them as a child back in 1977. And the cool thing is I enjoyed the movies just the same.

Revenge of the Sith is coming out approximately 28 years after ANH. That's a lifetime for some people (I will be 37, a veritable fossil).

Increases in technology, actor changes and whim have changed the films and how they are viewed by the greater part of movie goers. I will never look at the films critically, and only use them as a stepping stone to create my own stories in the universe.

Darth Fierce
10 September 2004, 07:10 PM
I agree, replacing the stormtrooper voices is a bad move IMO. Believe what you want...I grew up with the idea of stormtroopers as individual beings who had in one way or another allowed the Empire to take hold of them. That, my friends, made for some great EU stories, such as when the "noble" stormtrooper realized the government he had been supporting stunk and decided to turn against it.

The biggest flaw however with the upcoming DVDs in my opinion though, is indeed getting rid of Sebastian Shaw as the redeemed soul of Anakin Skywalker. I'm not ashamed to tell you all, but I nearly cry from joy every time I see the scene of Yoda, Obi-Wan and the older Anakin together at the end of RotJ. It's when Luke realizes he really did succeed in saving his dad. Although it's a little thing, replacing Sebastian with Hayden is literally offensive to me and I'd assume most of the other older Star Wars fans. Besides, can you seriously tell me that Luke would recognize the younger Anakin as his dad?

Darth Fierce :vader:

10 September 2004, 10:51 PM
ummm... dont know if any of you have seen the actual scene or anything, but i wouldnt knock any of it before actually seeing it. with so much "half empty" kind of attitude youre not going to enjoy the movie at all. if youre simply going to watch to look for flaws and then come here to whine about what you didnt like, do us all a favor and just pop your original trilogy in the VHS and enjoy.

look, like it or not, Star Wars belongs to George. If he wants to give JarJar a sweeping love story arc in Return of the Jedi, he could. Would we like it, probably not. But there is a solution. Watch a different movie. Or hey... write a better movie. Sit yourself down and start writing your epic. Then get them produced. Then make more movies. Then do it again and again, and if people complain about your work dont worry about it. Unless of course your production of movies isnt based on love of the act of writing, but upon making $$$... cause then you have to listen to the public.

Ive heard a lot of people complain that Lucas hasnt listened at all to his fans when writing the last few movies, and I am actually in great amount of disagreement. In my opinion the problem has been that he has listened to his fans far too much. I am certain that 90% of the entire plot of the prequels can be pieced together from old message boards and letters written by fans like me and you trying to say what we think should have or could have happened. The Original Trilogy was George Lucas' undilluted vision. The crap that followed was the results of consumer research, driven by a desire to keep everyone happy, and in the end satisfying no one. So it just goes to prove, people dont know what they want.

Anyways... thats just my opinion. Im probably wrong, but I just wanted to put it out there for yall.

11 September 2004, 06:43 AM
DVD changes - screencaps and comparison with the SEs. Fresh off the oven. Right here. (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews3/starwarschanges.html)

11 September 2004, 08:18 AM
Allt the stormies being clones is not a big deal to me, but all the stormies being clones of Jango is. That makes not sense from a genetics standpoint, as all the Rebels would have to do is taylor a virus to attack a unique part of their DNA structure and vioalla! The perfect smart bomb that slaughters stormies and touches no one else. However this will not be a big deal when watching the films.

Darth Fierce
11 September 2004, 09:11 AM
Thanks hisham for that link. Replacing English with Aurebesh in ANH I can live with, along with the addition of Naboo at the end of RotJ and the re-done Emperor in ESB.

I still repeat, though, replacing Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christensen at the end of RotJ is an utter travesty...:mad:

Darth Fierce :vader:

11 September 2004, 11:49 AM
i believe the reason for the change of actors in the final scene is to highlight the principle theme of Star Wars. For those of you who havent figured it out yet, the series is a movie about fall and redemption through sacrifice. Placing a slightly younger version of Anakin does a bit more to highlight the cyclical nature of that process, though it cerainly seems odd that ObiWan is SO much older than Anakin. I think the effect could have been aquired better if Hayden had been made up to look quite a bit older, but I feel it wasnt a thematically bad decision. Anakin redeemed should look more like Anakin (Hayden Cristianson) and not like the old Vader (whose face we barely see anyways). Maybe you dont like my opinion... but... um... oh well. im still a nice guy and a good human being. and my mommy loves me...

Darth Fierce
11 September 2004, 12:49 PM
That's fine, Tao...I'm not questioning the quality of your being as a person.

My position of why some of the DVD changes to the Original Trilogy are a bad thing can partly be traced back to the fact that I'm nearly 30 years old and feel a bit of nostalgia with the Star Wars movies. The Original Trilogy was perfect when it first came out. Why George seems to want to make all these changes is boggling. It's in some sense like if Da Vinci had taken the the Mona Lisa later on in life and added a couple of her friends in the background just because they were part of her past. The Mona Lisa wouldn't have quite the same feel, or even appear tarnished in some sense.

I don't need or want to see this Mona Lisa (the upcoming Original Trilogy DVD set) now that so much has been changed. With that said, I put my thoughts to rest on this matter.

Darth Fierce :vader:

11 September 2004, 02:16 PM
if youre simply going to watch to look for flaws and then come here to whine about what you didnt like, do us all a favor and just pop your original trilogy in the VHS and enjoy.

Well, that's a great idea, until the VHS version, now more than a decade old, wears out. Not to mention VHS is a mostly dead medium, rapidly going the way of the 8-track.

Tao, no offense intended, but I think "write your own / a better movie" is not really any kind of solution. When talking about a movie a lot of people enjoy being irrevocably altered, "watch or make a different movie" doesn't really address the issue.

And while I agree with you that Star Wars does legally belong to George (I made that same argument myself once upon a time), I believe that film, once it becomes as huge a part of the cultural consciousness as Star Wars has, belongs as much to the people as it does the artist. All that money Lucafilm made didn't come out of a magical nowhere. It came from the legions of people who paid to see his movies, buy his action figures, toys, books, comics, games, cup-holders, cereal, Underoos, etc. I won't say anything so crass as "Lucas owes us," but honestly, the fans made this franchise what it is, and Lucasfilm's attitude has consistently been one of "well, too bad" as far as releasing the OT as it was originally produced. And yeah, I find that a little insulting, and so I'm voting with my dollar as far as this DVD release is concerned. I begrudge no one else their own actions, but, like you say -- just voicing my opinion.

Also, I feel this is not a matter of the purity of the love of writing, or what have you. Melville didn't go back in later and add a car chase to Moby Dick to "punch it up." Orson Welles didn't go back thirty years later and colorize Citizen Kane or add in some new actors. When a film is done, IMHO, it should be done. Let it stand as a testament of the time in which it was made (to quote <a href="http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/archive/index.php/t-31308.html">George Lucas</a> himself). And this doesn't apply just to Star Wars, but to any film. If alterations must be made, the original should be preserved.

I feel this is especially true for a film as important as Star Wars, which has had an enormous impact on American popular culture, as well as the way movies are made. For Lucas to just cut, add, and tinker constantly after the fact is, to my mind, irresponsible. And, again, this is not just for Star Wars; I think it would be irresponsible for anyone to alter an influential and important film after the fact. As someone who has been interested in movie FX techniques since my youth, I enjoyed Star Wars not only as a fantasy film, but in terms of the absolutely pioneering special effects of the period in which it was made. Now those effects are not only gone forever, but according to Lucas, may as well have never existed. Yes, that's very disappointing to me.

In my opinion the problem has been that he has listened to his fans far too much. I am certain that 90% of the entire plot of the prequels can be pieced together from old message boards and letters written by fans like me and you trying to say what we think should have or could have happened. The Original Trilogy was George Lucas' undilluted vision. The crap that followed was the results of consumer research, driven by a desire to keep everyone happy, and in the end satisfying no one.

That's an interesting idea, but I wonder where you might have gotten it from. Who on earth was clamoring for Greedo to shoot first, years before the SEs came out? I also very much doubt that there were or have been legions of fanboys somewhere clamoring for more cute characters like Jar-Jar and Anakin Skywalker as a whiny, incoherent little kid saying "Whoopee!" If anything, most fans' vision of what Star Wars "ought to be" is far too dark for the PG movies that Lucas has made.

Again, I don't just hate everything about the SEs because I'm against progress in all forms. I just think the originals are important and influential enough to be preserved, not as high art or immaculate filmmaking, but as a very large part of our pop culture. If nothing else, I think it should be done for comparison's sake, to see how special effects technology has advanced -- not just thrown away and disavowed.

And, what Darth Fierce said about Anakin / Vader.

18 September 2004, 03:26 AM
OKay! Here are more brand new screencaps from the all-new DVD....

Um... yeah. Right here....

Linky! (http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2374)

What? What are you people looking like that at me for?

18 September 2004, 05:21 AM
There's not a change there I disagree with. GL is a brilliant man, and I retract any criticism I might have ever said before about his revisionist storytelling methods.


18 September 2004, 09:17 AM
I can't tell you how perfect these revisions are. Utter brilliance the the nth degree. Finnally these revesions have made SW a somplete movie and not the hackjob it once was. Thanks GL for finnaly getting it right. Let the film festivals begin!

Vanger Chevane
18 September 2004, 11:50 PM
You've a sick mind & we like it like that!

ROFLMAO, both myself & KS.

But if only this (http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2374&p=4) were true...(5th one down) :D

19 September 2004, 02:57 PM
Now THAT would be a great change.

proxima centauri
19 September 2004, 09:01 PM
Although I agree to some degree that Luke knows how his father looks like as Sebastien Shaw, and not as Hayden, I can understand the change to some degree.

When Anaking becomes darth vader, he is young, therefore he never wore a jedi robe after that. So by showing Sebastien Shaw in a jedi robe coulb be considered a continuity error. But I didn't mind living with it. ;)

19 September 2004, 09:27 PM
I especially like the new, more muppety, Yoda. That is pure magic. I just can't wait for him to pull out his Banjo and bust out Rainbow Connection.

That one made it to my desktop.

20 September 2004, 03:38 AM
Han Solo and Miss Piggy...sweet...

Anyway, my take on the "real" changes, as far as what I've seen in screenshots and read from various sources, is that they all seem like improvements on the Special Editions...fixing Jabba was a must if he thought he had to have that scene, taking out the extravagantly bushy eyebrows is a nice touch, and it's good to know they re-tooled my favorite character, the rancor, to make him look less like the plastic toy sitting on my computer...and the other little things, Greedo still shooting first, etc. don't really bother me...my top two concerns are the scene with the Emperer in Empire...not the visuals, I've seen screenshots of them and they look 10x better, but the dialogue changes...I know if you watch them in order it won't be a big deal if the audience knows Vader is Luke's father before he tells him, but I think that's a bad move...it demeans one of the most, if not the most, powerful moments I've ever seen on-screen...plus, I think they should be watched as they were released, not in numerical order...to be fair, I've never actually read what the dialogue is, but that change has been hinted to in several instances...now, my second big concern, after much thought, doesn't even concern me anymore, but it was young Anakin instead of old Anakin...I reason it like so: the see-through blue ghosts of Jedi are Force spirits...when Anakin is redeemed just before death, he regains his youthful, light-side spirit...therein, he returns as the Jedi he once was...and, though the logic is sound, I don't think what he was wearing makes a difference as you can't take clothes with you...although it appears that everything but Obi-Wan's cloak disappears with him, I think that's just a matter of it being too difficult to have all his clothing fall to the ground...but hey, I could be wrong...no one but George knows for sure...I really hope they explain the whole "becoming one with the Force" thing in Episode III like they say they do...that's been a big question in my mind since Episode I...I have my reasoning, but I wanna know if it's right or somewhere out in left field...

Vanger Chevane
20 September 2004, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by blivengo
I don't think what he was wearing makes a difference as you can't take clothes with you...although it appears that everything but Obi-Wan's cloak disappears with him, I think that's just a matter of it being too difficult to have all his clothing fall to the ground...but hey, I could be wrong...no one but George knows for sure...
But how cheesy would it be to see a pair of Hanes Boxers & Harrod's Sox fall out of OB1's cloak?


20 September 2004, 02:07 PM
Not a chance on the Hanes, you know he goes commando...

20 September 2004, 02:14 PM
Hello all!

Just a quick note that I all like to invite you to share your comments and thoughts about the new DVD Classic Trilogy in the sticky thread over at <i>Rebellion Era</i>. :)

See you there,

~ HiAd Chris

21 September 2004, 11:10 AM
Well I have said it before and I will say it again. I have no plans to purchase the new version of the Trilogy on DVD. I belive that the movies achieved perfection with the "Digitally remastered in THX" black box version. I had the special eddition on tape, watched it once, and sold it on ebay becuase I was so disgusted with it. Thankfully I had a friend of mine copy my VHS version to DVD (and if Lucas has a problem with my blatant violation of the copywrite laws then he can come to my house and bite my shiny metal ass) so I will have a pristine copy of the original for the ages.

I feel that G.L. has lost touch with the people who made Star Wars what it is today. At last count the online petition to save the original versions of the trilogy was hovering somewhere around 60,000 signatures, and I am sure that Mr. Lucas is well aware of this. Still he publicly announces that there will be no such version released to DVD. So what happens? Over half the people on that list, or perhapse even a greater percentage, will go out and by the trilogy anyway along with all the other people who planed to buy it from the start. Well two years down the line, once sales of the original trilogy DVD have begun to wain and episode three has finished it's run at the box office and is on it's way to DVD, I'm sure we will recive "Star Wars Master eddition box set". For the bargin price of $99.99 it will include all six movies with new audio comentaries, special features and who know how many more tweaks. And sure enough Star Wars Fans will line up around the block to buy it. Then another two years or so will pass and sales of that box set will wain. Lucas will look at those 60,000 signatures and we will see the "Star Wars Classic Trilogy Collectors Set" which will contain the original unmodified trilogy, some boring special features, and a half hour interview with Lucas himself saying how he wanted to preserve the original movies that the fans fell in love with. It will inclued perhapse a limited eddition lithograph or some other cheese add in that nobody really cares about. Perhapse it will even be limited eddition with only 50,000 copies, but you can own it for $99.99. Of course once those are sold out you will be able to purchase the "Star Wars Classic Trilogy" standard eddition which will not contain the added crap but will still set you back $59.99.

The precedent is already there and Lucas would not be the first to do it. I've lost count of how many versions of Highlander and Army of Darkness there are out there. Peter Jackson pioneered the concept of extended length DVD versions of movies for Lord of the Rings, and each was available in a standard box set or a collector's eddition. Almost any movie that is sequaled now a days you can expect a new version of the first movie to appear on DVD just before the release of the sequal that will contain perhapse a new ending and of course a preview of the upcoming sequal. George Lucas already did it once shortly after the release of Phantom Menace. Even though VHS was already starting to go the way of the dodo he still released another "Star Wars Trilogy" VHS and the only thing diffrent from the version that had come two years before was this version contained a sneak peek at episode 2.

I ask each and every one of you: How many versions of the Star Wars Trilogy do you own? I myself admit that I own four (five if you include my home made DVD). You don't even have to stop at Star Wars. Do you own more than one copy of any movie? They may be diffrent versions with difftrent features but at thier heart they are the same movie. Production companies will produce multiple versions of movies as long as we are willing to by them. The only thing we can do is be smart consumers and wait till the version we want is released. It may mean waiting an extra couple of months or even a year or two in extreme cases but I'm sure we all know some rabid fanboy that owns every version and would be willing to let us barrow them.

End Rant

21 September 2004, 11:56 AM
I have the origional (well i think) of the empire strikes back, while A new hope and ROTJ are the digitally remastered ones released in early 90's (Still origional IMO), and the special edition trilogy boxed set.

21 September 2004, 05:39 PM
I own the original movies that were individually sold, sometime back from the 80s. Then I own the THX versions. Both are on VHS. I also own the special edition on Laserdisc.

I, as you, plan on making my THX tapes into DVDs. That way I can keep the movie in good condition for a long, long time. :)

21 September 2004, 08:12 PM
Let's see... I've got the Classic "Black Box" (which are in degrading condition :( but I'll probably get my cousin to "solve" that problem as others have ;) Also, the Special Edition Trilogy, then, come Thursday, the DVD set (I'm a sucker... but I don't feel too bad about it, heh).
And as a side note, I've also bought DVD editions of films I own on VHS, if only to get some special features (if I've heard good things about them, that is).
"Bowling for Columbine" (not making a statement, just mentioning a fact :P )
Episode I
"October Sky"
and a few others I can't come up with off the top of my head...

22 September 2004, 03:24 AM
On a side note/question. For those who have converted (or had converted) VHS tapes to DVD.

A how easy is it?
B how much is it?
C Is it really worth it??

I ask, as i currently have just over 560 videos in my home collection, many from the early to mid 80's..

22 September 2004, 09:04 AM
I own the THX VHS box set, and the SE VHS box set. Sadly, my THX box set is not widescreen. I wish I'd been smart and gotten that while the getting was good. Now I have no way of getting the original trilogy and mastering it to DVD without pirating it.

22 September 2004, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by wolverine
On a side note/question. For those who have converted (or had converted) VHS tapes to DVD.

A how easy is it?
B how much is it?
C Is it really worth it??

I ask, as i currently have just over 560 videos in my home collection, many from the early to mid 80's..

A. If you have one of those VHS/DVD burner combo units it is pretty easy or if you have someone who knows how to do it. The method my friend used was to have his VCR hooked into the auxillery input on his video card. From there he just recorded it to a movie file on his hard drive then burned it to a dvd.

B. If you have to buy all the equipment yourself, very expensive. If you have a tech savy friend or relative only about 5 bucks per DVD depending on if you can find them on sale.

C. In my opinion yes. The nature of VHS tapes causes them to degrade a tiny bit not just over time but every time you watch them. Even in Pristine storage condition after about ten or fifteen years the degridation will become noticeable. Factor in the fact that we are within I would say three to five years of VHS becoming a tottaly dead format. DVD on the other hand will never degrade from general use. As long as they are stored properly the will last forever. They are also a digital format meaning if you ever need to make a copy or say transfer it to another medium (when DVD's become obsolete) there will be no generation loss.

Wow and I thought that associates degree in telecommunications would never come in handy.

25 September 2004, 01:15 AM
Just thought I'd throw my opinion into the cauldron.

I'm very happy with the DVDs. The picture quality is superb. The changes are minor. I was expecting to see Hayden as the ghost and the new Emperor hologram is much better. Yes there are a couple of changes I don't like, Greedo and the removal of the Ewok Celebration music.

But I've been waiting for these DVDs for several years. The quality of my VHS copies are very poor to the point of being unwatchable.

Yay to the DVDs, and thanks George :)

Yet all this tampering and still no Jar Jar in the originals. This sucks. Maybe Jar Jar can get his own movie like the Ewoks did - and NO I'm not kidding!

30 September 2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by dgswensen
<LI>Replacing all the Stormtrooper voices and Fett's voice with Temuera Morrison: What the hell? I really like the original Stormtrooper voices, and Fett's voice.

Well, if you think about it, Jeremy Bullock will still be shown - after all, he was the Imp Officer guarding Leia on Bsepin when she saw Luke...

30 September 2004, 02:47 PM
True, but it's Fett's original voice I love. Jeremy Bulloch in a non-speaking role doesn't really make up for that IMHO.

Kyle Pantrakahs
2 October 2004, 07:29 AM
Correct me if I'm in error, but IIRC, Jeremy Bulloch didn't do the voice for Fett in ESB. I think it says that somewhere in the ESB 20th Anniversary issue of SW Insider. :?

2 October 2004, 11:28 AM
Err, yeah. My bad. He didn't. I forgot.

Still like the original voice, though.

ij thompson
2 October 2004, 12:55 PM
Truly, it's silly to think that Boba would have the same voice as Jango, anyway! Our speaking voices are shaped by culture, diet, excercise, and the amount of yelling and screaming we do in the course of our lives.

I thought that Temeura delivered those lines really badly in ESB - which is surprising, considering the good job he did in AotC.

(Not to mention, I thought the original Boba coincidentally sounded a lot like Jango, anyway! :P )

2 October 2004, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Sithspawn

Yet all this tampering and still no Jar Jar in the originals. This sucks. Maybe Jar Jar can get his own movie like the Ewoks did - and NO I'm not kidding!
Lord Almighty and/or Creator of this Universe and Beyond, I hope not.

I keep telling myself that I did not hear Jar Jar's voice shouting "Wesa free!" during the Naboo celebration scene in ROTJ. The more I deny it, the more I can believe he died in Episode 3.

Zalaz Mavi
3 October 2004, 03:51 PM
I just saw the new DVDs last night, and I had much the small reaction to them as I did for the first round of Special Editions. I look at the changes in terms of my all time favorite movie sequence, the skeleton battle at the end of "Jason and the Argonauts." For special effects from 1963, those stop-motion skeletons are still amazing 40 years later. Now, what if someone wanted to go back, remove Ray Harryhausen's impressive work and replace it with computer generated effects? Sure, they'd be crisper and more fluid, but in today's movie-going environment, they'd come across as mundane and ordinary. I feel the same about SE Star Wars. While the effects certainly look and sound better, I had a very blasť reaction because I've seen that same level of effects in every movie released over the last 15 years. Strictly speaking, the effects really don't distinguish themselves very well...

Wesly Senesca
5 October 2004, 04:43 PM
To be honest, I didn't find the DVDs that bad. And with all the revisions that have been done, I was pissed off too (well the SE at least). But then I watched the Empire of Dreams piece. When I found out that Lucas had to create the effects from scratch, I rethought my first opinions. If he was able to get all that he got from the technology limits at the time--i.e. no CG back then--then it makes sense for him to go back and add in the stuff that he couldn't do at the time. For instance, in ESB a pack of wampas broke into Echo Base and reeked havoc on the Rebels, but due to the time and lack of workable tech, it was scrapped. The original sceen with Han and Jabba was created (IIRC) so that it could be reused when Jabba's appearance was finallized. My only concern with the Anakin switcheroo-thing is that I think Hayden needed better blocking and facing as well as his original costume--that's all. I'm fine with the rest of the changes. Han and Greedo shooting simutaneously--I think that's kinda cool. They BOTH shot first now. Either way Greedo still dies in the end. My biggest relief was the removal of Luke's girl scream in ESB. That's what sold me on bying the set. So for all those who can't help but complain like it's some life threatening change: get a life, man.

*dons flame-retardent cloak and runs away*

Wesly Senesca
5 October 2004, 04:50 PM
sorry about that, I just had connection problems.

Umm, while I'm still here: the somethingaweful link was hilarious. The AT-AT love scene is now my desktop background.:D

Darth Fierce
6 October 2004, 03:41 AM
I don't think it's a life threatening change. I just think it's a insult to replace a deceased man with roughly fifty movie roles to his credit with a kid who I had never heard of before Episode II came out. Lucas IMHO should have left the Original Trilogy well enough alone, new technology available or not...

Darth Fierce :vader:

6 October 2004, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Wesly Senesca
So for all those who can't help but complain like it's some life threatening change: get a life, man.

You make some good points, but we can do without the ad hominem attacks, please.