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Talon Razor 'GM'
10 September 2004, 09:26 AM
TF.N has a blurb saying that Ward has confirmed a Star Wars TV show.


Yesterday TFN was up in Los Angeles for the DVD press day sponsored by Lucasfilm and Fox Home Entertainment. We are pleased to announce that Lucasfilm confirmed officially a Star Wars television show coming in the future. They didn't comment on setting (post-Episode III or post-Episode VI we would guess)or release schedule (we expect Fall 2006). Either way - this is coming for sure!

Here (http://www.theforce.net/holonet/index.shtml#24763) is the link.

Let's hope this is a FireFly class of a TV show! I'm excited!!

Let's hear those debates!

Dr_Worm
10 September 2004, 09:35 AM
Oh...I am so freaken skeptical about this. Lucas does not have the best luck with TV. Then again I am not one of the many Droids fans, or that big of a fan of the Clone Wars cartoon. So perhaps I am too picky. I guess I just think that most of the scifi (space Opera) shows out there are cheesy to an extreem. I loved Firefly, but don't believe that that quality of show is likely to appear again in this generation. I liked B5, as well, but there my scifi watcing ends for the most part. Even those shows were seen thanks to Netflix, because at the time I did not have any interest in another lame scifi show.

My early prediction is that this will be a bomb of an atomic magnitude. Then again I have been wrong before.

hisham
10 September 2004, 09:37 AM
Yum! More treats from the SW universe that we can see and listen to!

That said, I'm hoping that TPTB relegates this task to a contractor that can do the job well, like what Genndy Tartakovsky did for the Clone Wars toon.

So much stories to be told in the SW universe, else we wouldn't be playing SWRPG. ;)

Talon Razor 'GM'
10 September 2004, 09:53 AM
Actually, Hish brings up a very good point. This show MIGHT work out because of the following:

1. Lucas is sick of Star Wars. This is nothing new. After Ep. III, he wants to move on. So his involvment would be fairly limited.

2. Thus this means it'd probably be handled by outside sources. LucasFilms tend to go to the best (Clone War Cartoons, etc) so the chances of haviing a very good company handle this is high.

3. This would have the wieght, and more importantly, the money of LucasFilms behind this, along with ILM.

4. Mark Hamhill and others of the Orignial have said they'd be willing to do some more Star Wars work. Also, rumors have surfaced that those that signed on for EpI-III also have in their contracts to possibly do a season of TV shows.

So it's got a lot of things going for it. However, just to PROVE that it's going to rock, Hisham and I have secured a preview.

That's right. Using my connections in the Film Industry and Hisham's general thingness, we've secured a piece of the screenplay. The show....is a Sitcom.

Khairul Hisham: Owen Lars enters living room... APPLAUSE...
Khairul Hisham: Luke (5 years old): Uncle Owen.. You zipper's undone!
Khairul Hisham: (LAUGH TRACK)
Khairul Hisham: Owen: "Yeah? You're not wearing your pants."
Khairul Hisham: Luke: "THis is a desert planet. I'm hot!"
Talon of Razor: (LAUGH TRACK)
Talon of Razor: Aunt Beru comes in: "Owen! You forgot to lift the lid on the toilet!"
Talon of Razor: (Laugh Track.....Applause....Comercial break)
Khairul Hisham: In other news... thousands of SW fans found dead with self inflicted gunshot wound to the head.

Enjoy!

SmugglerJedi
10 September 2004, 11:51 AM
That's disgusting! Yuck!

I hope it isn't going to be a sitcom. That would be bad. Yes, Star Wars has its funny parts, but I don't think being a sitcom would be good. Instead, I hope for what is was in the movies: a dramatic space fantasy with many elements of comedy sprinkled over a vast field of action and adventure, with, budget permitting, some possible romance lining the side. (Personally, I just know that many people like romance. What is wrong with this world?)

So, in other words, "dramedic" space fantasy (refers to "dramedy", a new genre that combines drama + comedy.)

Personally, I think its a shame that Lucas won't be doing this TV show (if it exists), but on the other hand, the guy is filthy rich; let him do what the hell he wants, he's a god FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!:D

I'm fine. No, really. I hope this TV series really does work out, and I hope its live action, not cartoons. I also hope it lasts a LOT longer than Firefly did. A shame what happened to that show. A shame what may happened to this one.

Until next time, everyone. SJ.:janson:

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
10 September 2004, 12:29 PM
Well, if ILM & G.L get somebody like Joss Whedon - who did Firefly, the Buffy & Angel serries, i'm sure this tv show would rock!!!!

Joss's Firefly rocked but didn't have the monetary backing when Fox decided to ax it... Backing from ILM would be much different imho, and just as quality of a tv serries...

My next choice would've been Micheal J Straczinsky - Babylon 5, & currently Jeremiah... Though since he's doing Jeremiah, its not likely unless Jeremiah somehow gets axed or ends after season 2...

The guy who did Farscape would also be another top pick imho

People here have said - as long as they got someone of top quality, it'll be good... Unfortunately thats a very generalistic comment... A producer who's considered top quality for sitcoms should not be thought equally good for sci-fi...

Would you want the writer or producer of Twin Peaks or Rosanne to do a starwars serries? Badically someone who's not had any sci-fi credentials?

Btw, is this serries going to be live or cg (IE: Reboot) or cartoon?

imho, i'm hoping its going to be a good action/adventure tied together with drama, and a strong storyline is a must - preferably the episodes linked together like bab5 or jeremiah. I don't want mindless action that have things blow up and dosn't require any thinking on why things happen within the plot twists...

Well thats my opinions anyways...

Dr_Worm
10 September 2004, 12:59 PM
Okay...first of all the David Lynch producing/writing/directing SW would be trip. Not SW perhaps, but quite a trip to watch. Second, while I like Joss quite a bit I would not want him on this project for two reasone
1) Firefly is great, but it is not SW. Not sure that the two would not blent too much.
2) It would keep him from making more episodes, which I hope will follow the film.

As for Micheal J Straczinsky, I loved what he did with B5, but unlike my friend from the north, I really do not like Jeremiah. And Farscape...shudder...never did like that show.

Anyhoo I think it should be produced by Senior Speilbergo for obvious reasons. The main one being that I think that it is less important the directors and creative staff have experience with scifi, than them having experince with an action enhanced drama. Look at Firefly. Wedon had cut his teeth on Buffy and went on to do Firefly. The content of Firefly is nothing like the content of buffy, but his abbility to create a good dramatic serial transfers over.

I still maintain this is a HORRIBLE idea, however.

Darth Fierce
10 September 2004, 01:53 PM
Hmm...I guess I'm one of the few folk here who never liked Firefly.

If the rumor of an upcoming Star Wars TV series is indeed true, I think I'd rather see a post-Episode III show. It would be an area wide-open for speculation and story development without necessarily trampling on established Star Wars literature (e.g., post-Episode VI EU stories).

Darth Fierce :vader:

Rogue Janson
10 September 2004, 02:02 PM
Hmmm. this could be good or it could be horrible.

I think with regards to television, Lucasfilm is generally successful at what it's aiming to do. The droids and ewoks series were for children, were of their time and still hold a place in the hearts of many people, which is all you can hope for. The Clone Wars series was short, fast and over the top and did all three with style. It didn't exactly add great depth to the SWU, and there are certainly things in their to be skeptical of, but overall it was fun.

So the big question, that'll probably remain tantalisingly open for a while, is what sort of series are they trying to make, and who's the audience going to be?

I agree with Doc Worm that to have Spielberg producing would be fantastic. Basically, though, what's needed is to have someone with enough gravitas to make the project serious. Something like the young Indiana Jones series provides a precedent for how this sort of thing can be done. With regards to live action vs cartoon, I don't mind - they have balancing good and bad points. If it's treated seriously a cartoon series can have as much depth and involvement as live action - and I think any live action series would face that problem anyway.

As for era/setting, the post epIII RotE is a darker era and perhaps one that wouldn't be immediately appealing for Lucasfilm. However were a series made in this era, the darker setting might give it a more adult focus, which would be good. For post RotJ, there's any amount of good stuff they could do, the key issue will be how it fits with the EU. If it contradicts completely it could be enjoyable in its own right. If it fits in with the EU it could be brilliant, and be a big boost for the post-RotJ EU itself.

Almost surprisingly I'm more intrigued at the moment than worried it'll be awful.

dgswensen
10 September 2004, 02:54 PM
Well, they made a Clone Wars animated miniseries and everyone seemed to love that.

If they can keep up that general level of quality, more power to them, I say.

I'd rather see a Classic Trilogy era series, but I'm funny that way.

ij thompson
11 September 2004, 07:45 AM
Pardon my cynicism, but doubtless this series will just be an excuse to sell more toys.

I'm confident it'll bridge the two film series, that way it'll benefit from the appearance of characters like Vader, Fett, Jabba, Tarkin, etc.

Anyway, as long as it's got Bea Arthur, rousing musical numbers, and a strong message about the true meaning of Christmas, I'm cool! ;)

SmugglerJedi
11 September 2004, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by Darth Fierce
Hmm...I guess I'm one of the few folk here who never liked Firefly.

You didn't like Firefly? What is with you, man? How can you not like Firefly?:raised:

My opinion is that I think Joss Whedon may be good, but on the other hand, Dr_Worm is right: Firefly & Star Wars don't exactly mix. I personally would like a series set in the OT as well, with Rebels or possibly even neutrals/criminals dealing with the Empire in their own set of misadventures (brings to mind Squint Flembeck of johhnyputrid fame;)).


Originally posted by ij thompson:
Pardon my cynicism, but doubtless this series will just be an excuse to sell more toys.

For some reason, I agree with you. However, I do not buy toys; I buy books. Let's hope WoTC comes out with a series sourcebook (which they will do.)

Oh well, I suppose we'll never know until it actually comes out.

SJ.

PS: Spielberg sounds great for this! Although I hope this doesn't turn into Indiana Jones...

SmugglerJedi
11 September 2004, 07:59 AM
Ooops, double post...

Actually kind of curious how many times this has happened to people...

Dr_Worm
11 September 2004, 08:37 AM
I am a huge fan of the Rebelion era as well and it may very well be the setting for one huge reason: You do not have to train your viewers. They know the Empire is the bad guy, they know the archetype of oppression and xenophobia. The viewers will have the right feeling from episode one.

On the other hand this will not allow them the flexability that post ROTJ would. It is much easier to work in mystery and intrugue when you do not have to worry about disturbing so much canon. There is, of course, the possibility that they would develop the Far Orbit Project, which would give the free reign to do ANYTHING, but then the show would have to work hard not to end up too Trekkie.

I think a cartoon is a bad idea. I certainly believe a good personal story can be portrayed in an animated program, that is not a fear of mine. What I would not like is the fact that a) it would almost certainly be 30min episodes, and b) animators and creators tend to go over the top on the abbilities of the characters. I really loved some of the episodes in CW, but a lot of them turned my stomache. I just do not care how good a Jedi is her cannot destroy an entire clone army singlehandedly. That is just stupid. I want this program to carry the story along, not make gods out of the heros.

Darth Fierce
11 September 2004, 09:21 AM
I didn't like Firefly, because I felt let down by Joss Whedon after he had created such a cool background with "Buffy" and "Angel" only to follow up with a sci-fi show with an universe without aliens (and the strange idea of a star system with hundreds of Earth-like worlds) in Firefly. That's why I didn't like it.

Darth Fierce :vader:

SmugglerJedi
11 September 2004, 02:12 PM
Well, that whole system thing was pretty unrealistic (it stretched even Star Wars realisms) and I never was totally sure it took place in a single system. At the same time, I really liked the fact that it had no aliens.

But that isn't the purpose of this thread, so I'm going to stop now.

SJ.

Jaggard
11 September 2004, 09:10 PM
Actually What I'd like to see is something a little differant. I'd like some... I guess it'd be called filler.

Take some of those novels like Tales of the Bounty hunters and Jabbas palace and the cantina. Make it in a bar have new characters recount tales around the setting and story of the regular cast.

Follow differant peoples and events that happen off screen movie wise. Flesh out the universe.

Jaggard
11 September 2004, 09:12 PM
frelling thing took 10 mins to post and then did it twice.

SmugglerJedi
12 September 2004, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Jaggard
frelling thing took 10 mins to post and then did it twice.

Same thing happened to me. I know; it sucks. As for filler: that would be an interesting topic to follow, though I'd like some more, I dunno, RPG stuff, as in going "away" from the core protagonists and with other parties.

Still, filler might be pretty good.

Tao
13 September 2004, 01:13 PM
Id like some bridging between the RotE and ANH eras. Back stories about Lukes and Han and Leia, stories about Fett and the Hutts, the formation of the Rebellion, new characters and friends of the main characters... that would be a dream. Almost like the Han Solo Trilogy (which if you havent read... well... READ IT) but on the screen... a perfect opportunity to flesh out the characters, and only Han Solo really has a very detailed pre ANH storyline.

Tao
13 September 2004, 01:15 PM
Id like some bridging between the RotE and ANH eras. Back stories about Lukes and Han and Leia, stories about Fett and the Hutts, the formation of the Rebellion, new characters and friends of the main characters... that would be a dream. Almost like the Han Solo Trilogy (which if you havent read... well... READ IT) but on the screen... a perfect opportunity to flesh out the characters, and only Han Solo really has a very detailed pre ANH storyline.

Darth Fierce
13 September 2004, 01:42 PM
Not entirely true, Tao. Lando :lando: has a fairly significant backstory that stretches to before ANH, IIRC. Then there's those two guys that end up running the Empire for a while :emperor: :vader:...

That said, I'd prefer it if the series strayed away from the well-known characters, as described by those of you who want a sort of "Tales From/of..." feel.

Darth Fierce :vader:

B_Davion
13 September 2004, 02:35 PM
someone at swag posted this:

http://www.lucasfilm.com/press/news/news20040802.html


thus lesading to my current fear....... of a SW ANIME?!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


8o 8o 8o 8o 8o

Darth Fierce
18 September 2004, 07:17 AM
Yesterday I clicked on a link of The Force.Net's site related to the supposedly upcoming Star War's television show. In the article attached to the link it was said that Lucas has said that he will actually have very little to do with the show itself (handing responsibilities to another party). Also, he indicated that the show would probably have little connection with the movies, instead being an offshoot of the franchise (which might mean the show will have a "Tales From/Of the..." feel after all, though that is pure speculation on my part).

Just thought I'd let you all in on this...

Darth Fierce :vader:

SmugglerJedi
18 September 2004, 08:32 AM
I just saw that thing about Lucasfilm Singapore, or whatever they're calling it. I can't believe it. Its insane; absurd; ludicrous! Turning Star Wars into anime? Didn't they do that with manga and it stunk?

Oh, wait, that's right, they want to "blend" Eastern and Western animation. That's called "Amerime", and I think its going to stink. Really badly. The mere fact that it could possibly be a cartoon will gear it to younger audiences and not have the true, in-depth story that us "older people" ;) want.

So what's it going to be? "Gundam Wars"? Ewww....

A thoroughly disgusted, worried, and unhappy SJ.

Rostek
18 September 2004, 09:31 AM
IGN (http://filmforce.ign.com/starwars/articles/548/548457p1.html) seems to be confidant of a live action series...
This pickup probably is just Lucas expanding his portfolio.

Reverend Strone
18 September 2004, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by SmugglerJedi
I just saw that thing about Lucasfilm Singapore, or whatever they're calling it. I can't believe it. Its insane; absurd; ludicrous! Turning Star Wars into anime? Didn't they do that with manga and it stunk?

Oh, wait, that's right, they want to "blend" Eastern and Western animation. That's called "Amerime", and I think its going to stink. Really badly. The mere fact that it could possibly be a cartoon will gear it to younger audiences and not have the true, in-depth story that us "older people" ;) want.

So what's it going to be? "Gundam Wars"? Ewww....

A thoroughly disgusted, worried, and unhappy SJ.

Why? Who said anything about Lucasfilm Animation turning out a SW series?

I think you're jumping to the wrong conclusion here. GL has said he's going to have a SW live action tv series made. He has also said that they're establishing Lucasfilm Animation in Singapore. The two are not necessarily related in any way.

guaeko
18 September 2004, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by SmugglerJedi
The mere fact that it could possibly be a cartoon will gear it to younger audiences


Not necessarily. Not all cartoons are children based, and many are extremely inappropriate for children (see Family Guy, Futurama, South Park, and most animes.) Anyway, cartoon or live action, younger audiences ARE going to watch it, because its Star Wars. Star Wars has one of the most varied group of people that watch it agewise.

SmugglerJedi
18 September 2004, 04:56 PM
guaeko, you were right. Some of these cartoons are inappropriate for younger audiences, which disturbs me and actually annoys me (but that's something else.)

Anyways, I might be a little jumpy. I'm just eager for a live-action show and really not liking the idea of a cartoon. Maybe it was B_Davion's post that got me worried, though I'm not blaming anything on him.

Until next time. SJ.

Wesly Senesca
19 September 2004, 03:27 PM
One plus side to a cartoon series is that since it's drawn, you only need voice actors for the characters (perfect for the OT actors, especially Mark Hamill--it's what he does these days: the Joker, anyone?)

Furthermore, if you don't like it, don't watch it. I personally stay away from sci-fi drama thingies (Buffy, Angel, Babylon 5, Andromeda, etc..) because I think they're all cheesy save for Stargate SG-1, though even it has its low points. So if it pisses you off, ignore it.

blivengo
19 September 2004, 05:00 PM
Personally, I agree with Rev that people are making huge leaps in assuming that the series and the new Singapore office are related...although, if they wanted to make a Clone Wars-esque cartoon series (not necessarily about the Clone Wars, but with the same type of animation and writers) I'd be okay with that...now, I'll be honest, I didn't read this whole thread so if someone else said this already then "Right on!"

Anyway, I don't think anyone, including Lucas, knows exactly what the future of Star Wars holds, so I'm just going to wait and see...whatever it is though, I'll watch it...

Sithspawn
25 September 2004, 01:24 AM
I'd like to see Kevin Smith at the helm of a star Wars TV series - along with cameo's from Bluntman and Chronic :D

Seriously though, I think he'd be a good choice. He's too much of a Star Wars fan to mess it up, and witth ILM and Clone Wars writers behind him it could be the best thing this galaxy has ever seen.

dgswensen
25 September 2004, 03:57 PM
It remains to be seen, though, whether Kevin Smith can write drama. So far in his career, he's done nothing but screwball, foulmouthed comedy. Star Wars fan or no, I'm not sure he'd be up to the task.

VixenofVenus
28 September 2004, 08:18 AM
While Chasing Amy & Jersey Girl were definitely foulmouthed ... I for one cannot put them in a category of "screwball comedy".

Rostek
28 September 2004, 09:58 AM
Kevin Smith, IMHO, is probably one of the better "writing directors" out there. His stuff is pretty insightful (Dogma is one of my favorite films ever), and while the language is an issue for some, it is, actually, how "cool nerds" like myself ;) talk in my part of the country. Certainly wouldn't qualify as screwball anyway, IMO.
Having said that, Smith has limitations on the visual and cinematic side. He is not stylistically sophisticated enough, I think, to handle a SW series. He could be a good producer, or a writer, but I don't think he could manage a Space Opera/Sci-Fi Drama as far as action sequences and moving scenes go.
That's just my opinion, of course, and he has improved in style with every film he's done.

dgswensen
28 September 2004, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by Rostek
Certainly wouldn't qualify as screwball anyway, IMO.

Obviously you never saw Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back :) (a movie I own and enjoy, btw).

Rostek
28 September 2004, 01:41 PM
Obviously you never saw Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back (a movie I own and enjoy, btw).
Seen it. Own it. Love it. :D
Having said that, he's acknowlaged that it was really an aberration, and is a "character piece".
I refer mainly to "Dogma" and "Clerks", those being the non-screwball ( ;) ) pieces I've seen fo my opinions as to Smith's directing ability, although, I'm sure you know that :).

Jame
18 October 2004, 12:25 PM
Hopefully, if there is a Star Wars tv show, it will be on non-cable tv as well. And, as far as I'm concerned, it would best be somewhere between Ep 3 and RotJ - more Rebellion stories than just Skywalker's, don'cha know.

P.S.: I am another who never liked - hey, never even watched - Firefly...

Vanger Chevane
18 October 2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Jame
Hopefully, if there is a Star Wars tv show, it will be on non-cable tv as well. And, as far as I'm concerned, it would best be somewhere between Ep 3 and RotJ - more Rebellion stories than just Skywalker's, don'cha know.


Which is why I really like the X-Wing series of novels. It focuses on some of the other heroes of the RA/NR.


P.S.: I am another who never liked - hey, never even watched - Firefly... :raised:
If you've never experienced something, how can you be so certain you don't like it? Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but bashing something based on Blind Ignorance...

Grimace
18 October 2004, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Vanger Chevane


:raised:
If you've never experienced something, how can you be so certain you don't like it? Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but bashing something based on Blind Ignorance...

Pretty easily, actually. I've not done drugs, and I'm positive that I don't like them. I would hardly call it blind ignorance. People can come to educated guesses based on what they've read, seen, heard people talk about, etc.

So please, let's not get into the "you can't say you don't like it if you've never tried it" stint.

dgswensen
19 October 2004, 10:02 AM
I don't know if Firefly and drugs are a really solid analogy... maybe Twin Peaks and drugs... :)

Personally, I have a different perspective, as I never had any interest in Firefly at all until someone sat me down and I watched the show... and I became a huge fan. I railed against how stupid Buffy the Vampire Slayer was for years and years, because I saw the movie, and then, once again, my girlfriend sat me down and made me watch it, and lo and behold, I liked it.

So while I think you can definitely have no interest in something you've never experienced, saying you don't like a show you've never watched doesn't really make sense to me. But it's a minor semantic nitpick, really.

sorcere
21 October 2004, 03:39 PM
A good Star Wars TV show would be sweet, especially if it had good continuity and the best writing money can buy. Oh, and some decent actors would be helpful too. Unfortunately it will probably be shown on FOX. And their shows have been really hit or miss.

As for writers, I seriously hope they give JMS a look. He's even intimated that he would do it (usenet records at www.jmsnews.net ). As seen on his previous sci-fi show Babylon 5, he is a wizard at writing plot and subplot in long ranged story arcs instead of the typical humdrum lets see how we can mess up continuity this week and further confuse/annoy our fanbase(READ: Star Trek).

A David Lynch project would be sweet, although if he didnt have creative control over his vision he wouldnt touch it. For a great example read Dune, watch the Sci-Fi Channel version, then watch David Lynch's version.

Personally, I would recommend they see what Timothy Zahn is up to. I think he incorporates the best elements from Star Wars and throws it in a blender with suspense and intrigue. Whatever the end result is this show will live and die on its writing. No matter how many cool lightsaber duels they want to throw at the audience, if the drama stinks so will the show.

Calhexas
8 November 2004, 03:34 PM
I'm deep into Sci-Fi channel's "Farscape", and I often used the plots from the show in many of my campaigns. Don't know if anyone else likes that show, but if the SWTV show is anything like that, I'll watch it till the day I die, or it stops running. Hopefully the former comes first though.

Reel 2/Dialogue 2
23 November 2004, 07:35 AM
First off, I'll chime in by saying that whatever form the TV show takes, I already want the DVDs. :D

But since this is a wish fulfillment thread, looks like I'll be the one to stick up for an animated series, and I'll tell ya why (he said, pointing his thumb like Bill Clinton)...

1. Mark Hamill can not only voice Luke and Yoda, but I saw an interview of him doing a KILLER Harrison Ford impression, so Han is quite the given! Anthony Daniels is no stranger to animation, and even Carrie Fisher has expressed interest in returning to her role (and what better venue to provide than a timeless Leia?). This is all, of course, assuming a Rebellion era series would occur.

2. Hasn't anyone heard of Invasion: America ? It was the first animated sci-fi drama to last an hour long each episode, so the format is possible. I say, get Michael Reaves (Gargoyles, Invasion: America, Spider-Man) involved, we be good ta go! Personally, I'm hoping for a quarteryear (at the most) series of two-hour TV movies, mostly self-contained stories like the novels (thus preventing the dreaded series-without-an-end cancellation syndrome).

3. Since the effects of a live action show would have to be animated in some form ANYWAY, why not just utilize the full power of the technique (NOT A GENRE :D ). Spanning the galaxy and making it believable with a reasonable budget could only be accomplished through animation. Star Trek only has to deal with one locale per episode on average - for a reason - and its animated series was the only one to provide several alien species that actually looked alien*.

4. Unlike missing out on the films, I could actually work on the series someday! Cut a fellow animator who's down on his luck some slack!! :D

I'm also going to have to add my own gripe about Firefly in specific and Joss Whedon in general. Firefly tried waaaay too hard to be a live action Cowboy Bebop and was filled with a glut of expository dialogue that is typical of Whedon's "style". Also typcial of Whedon fare is the goofiness of the action setpieces, none of which are convincing enough to skip my heartbeat once. In a word... :rolleyes:

Tartakovsky told his Clone Wars stories with little dialogue and still managed to express the meaning (while remaining action packed) of each mini-episode. I doubt that a live action series can get away with this without alienating any potential Star Wars watchers (I'd still watch).

(and to whomever said something about not wanting superpowered Jedi taking out a Trade Fed army... you do realize that was Mace "The Man" Windu doing such, right? Only he or Yoda could've done that. Not Obi-Wan. Certainly not Ki-Adi's crew. Maybe Liam or Jempa).

I do fear that this will end up on FOX, the place where cartoons not called The Simpsons go to die.


*I won't bring up Voyager if you won't...

Dr_Worm
23 November 2004, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Reel 2/Dialogue 2

(and to whomever said something about not wanting superpowered Jedi taking out a Trade Fed army... you do realize that was Mace "The Man" Windu doing such, right? Only he or Yoda could've done that. Not Obi-Wan. Certainly not Ki-Adi's crew. Maybe Liam or Jempa).

[/SIZE]

I do believe that was me, and regardless of Yoda and Mace being the pinnacle of Jedidom, jumping a few hundred feet up in the air and a quartermile up a cliffside is stretching the bounds of suspension of belief. That is a very anime thing to have happened and it was the last episode I watched. That is not to mention the ungodly army he defeated by himself...no I find that horrible. If that sort of thing is put on TV it will probably go on the list of shows like Ewoks and Droids...both of which were terrible IMO.

Honestly, there are few dramatic anime programs that really do the story justice: Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Beebop, Lain, Titan AE...a few others. The problem is that they do not yet appeal to mass US audiences. They are often played late at night and are not followed by more than a small portion of TV watchers. Lucas is all about saturation and mass exposure. I am not sure that this media would reach a mass audience enough to suit Lucas's needs.

Nova Spice
23 November 2004, 04:12 PM
I do believe that was me, and regardless of Yoda and Mace being the pinnacle of Jedidom, jumping a few hundred feet up in the air and a quartermile up a cliffside is stretching the bounds of suspension of belief. That is a very anime thing to have happened and it was the last episode I watched. That is not to mention the ungodly army he defeated by himself...no I find that horrible. If that sort of thing is put on TV it will probably go on the list of shows like Ewoks and Droids...both of which were terrible IMO.

I was going to reply, Doc, but you pretty much summed up my feelings on the matter. I'm not a fan of the Clone Wars cartoons on Cartoon Network for that very reason.

Reel 2/Dialogue 2
24 November 2004, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by Dr_Worm


I do believe that was me, and regardless of Yoda and Mace being the pinnacle of Jedidom, jumping a few hundred feet up in the air and a quartermile up a cliffside is stretching the bounds of suspension of belief. That is a very anime thing to have happened and it was the last episode I watched. That is not to mention the ungodly army he defeated by himself...no I find that horrible. If that sort of thing is put on TV it will probably go on the list of shows like Ewoks and Droids...both of which were terrible IMO.

Perhaps in the pantheon of roleplaying rules it would seem out of bounds, but as I stated, it was Mace Windu and not some other Jedi who performed such stunts. Anyone other than he or Yoda doing the same would've stretched my suspension as well, considering the newfound battle experience they've attained in two years time (Mace has his own saber technique, for Gonk's sake!). Besides, Mace's wardrobe after the battle has seen better days, and he needed a drinkie-poo! (afterwhich, turning to the camera and proclaming with a wink, "Gatorade, the official juice Force of Jedi!") :D

You unfortunately missed the last episode (as well as the Ilum episode with Yoda), which showed that not all Jedi were created equal...

I can't believe you dismissed the show just for that. C'mon. C'mon. Plus, Droids and Ewoks were intended for a different audience. They lasted more than one season, so they had to please sumbadah (including moi).


Originally posted by Dr_Worm
Honestly, there are few dramatic anime programs that really do the story justice: Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Beebop, Lain, Titan AE...a few others. The problem is that they do not yet appeal to mass US audiences. They are often played late at night and are not followed by more than a small portion of TV watchers. Lucas is all about saturation and mass exposure. I am not sure that this media would reach a mass audience enough to suit Lucas's needs.

Saturation and mass exposure? Depends on the means to which end he wants to realize. Merchandising, fer sure. The films, okay (despite the whinings of certain "fans" about certain aspects). A mini-series cartoon played on a cable network... not so much. Lucas chose Tartakovsky (and Cartoon Network) because he liked Samurai Jack. I don't think a "mass audience" was at question in this case, or he would've gone to his former buddies at Pixar.

The beauty, and exacerbation, of such potential in animation is that it has yet to be realized to the public at large (Simpsons outlasting MASH... who'da thunk it?). Perhaps Star Wars animated is what's needed to detract from the antiquated fallacies of "kids' cartoons only" and the "comedic ghetto" and kick those notions where Tatoo I & II don't shine. Have a little faith (I mean, it's not like a live-action sci-fi series has a better chance of survival, network-wise).

Perhaps your notion of "story justice" is dependent upon your own tastes which, you must admit, don't run concurrent to those of the dreaded Mass Audience (an overrated group whom are "unwashed" to the way of animation anyway, heh). Don't automatically condemn a potentially "justifiable" Star Wars cartoon because John Q. Doe McNascar thought it as geek bunk.

And remember: Hasbro, Del Ray, and Gentle Giants depend on this show, no matter the technique used!

PS: Titan AE was a Don Bluth film, not an anime. [nitpicking mode off]

Dr_Worm
24 November 2004, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Reel 2/Dialogue 2


Perhaps in the pantheon of roleplaying rules it would seem out of bounds, but as I stated, it was Mace Windu and not some other Jedi who performed such stunts. Anyone other than he or Yoda doing the same would've stretched my suspension as well, considering the newfound battle experience they've attained in two years time (Mace has his own saber technique, for Gonk's sake!). Besides, Mace's wardrobe after the battle has seen better days, and he needed a drinkie-poo! (afterwhich, turning to the camera and proclaming with a wink, "Gatorade, the official juice Force of Jedi!") :D
Whether it squares with game info or not is not the point. It is pure fantasy compared to any movie references we have seen of ANY jedi. Mace is by far my favorite Jedi, and I think he is one bad motha (shut yo mouth), but what was protrayed in that cartoon had nothing to do with Jedi.


You unfortunately missed the last episode (as well as the Ilum episode with Yoda), which showed that not all Jedi were created equal...

I can't believe you dismissed the show just for that. C'mon. C'mon. Plus, Droids and Ewoks were intended for a different audience. They lasted more than one season, so they had to please sumbadah (including moi).
I actually did not stop watching becuase of that. I stopped becuase I did not have cable for a week (an outtage) and just never got back in to following it. I will probably pick it up when it comes out on DVD. If only becuase the ARC trooper episodes from season 1 were the best.


Saturation and mass exposure? Depends on the means to which end he wants to realize. Merchandising, fer sure. The films, okay (despite the whinings of certain "fans" about certain aspects). A mini-series cartoon played on a cable network... not so much. Lucas chose Tartakovsky (and Cartoon Network) because he liked Samurai Jack. I don't think a "mass audience" was at question in this case, or he would've gone to his former buddies at Pixar.
I disagree. I think that you underestimate the saturation of Cartoon Network. All my son's friends watch the heck out of it and followed the CW series better than I did. That being said it does not compare to the saturation of broadcast network programs. Lucas is in to the market potential as much as he is the story. Look...I am one of the few old-timers that reall likes the prequels, but even I can admit Lucas's decisions sometimes smack of market appeal overriding SW feel. I do not blame him for such actions, but they are there.


The beauty, and exacerbation, of such potential in animation is that it has yet to be realized to the public at large (Simpsons outlasting MASH... who'da thunk it?). Perhaps Star Wars animated is what's needed to detract from the antiquated fallacies of "kids' cartoons only" and the "comedic ghetto" and kick those notions where Tatoo I & II don't shine. Have a little faith (I mean, it's not like a live-action sci-fi series has a better chance of survival, network-wise).
I love animation, and I think it serves a great purpose in telling a certain type of story. You could never tell a story like Spirited Away as a live-action movie. It would never work. Be that as it may, regardless of the feelings of the minority you ( and to some extent, I) are part of, there is just not the same love and trust for animation in the US market that there is in Asian markets. Anime, and animation in general, is seen as a comedic vehicle by a large majority of the TV market. I think you are just too optomistic.

As to the success of a live-action series...well I think I made it clear from the beginning that I think any kind of SW TV show is a bad idea. At least, however, people would be prepared to follow a dramtic serial if it had live actors. It would not require them to learn a new media format. I am not saying that is a good thing, but that is reality in the US.


Perhaps your notion of "story justice" is dependent upon your own tastes which, you must admit, don't run concurrent to those of the dreaded Mass Audience (an overrated group whom are "unwashed" to the way of animation anyway, heh). Don't automatically condemn a potentially "justifiable" Star Wars cartoon because John Q. Doe McNascar thought it as geek bunk.
I do not condem it to be bad, I simply condem it to fail. NASCAR moms and dads are a huge maket for advertisers, and if they are not watching, then it will be tough for the show to succeed.

And frankly if the show is animated, and it does have the same kind of insane anime physics that the CW series had at times, it will not only fail with the unwashed masses, but also with hardcore SW fans.


PS: Titan AE was a Don Bluth film, not an anime. [nitpicking mode off]
True enough, I just did not feel like starting a new catagory. It was a great film, so animation style is nither here nor there.

Reel 2/Dialogue 2
27 November 2004, 04:40 AM
[
Originally posted by Dr_Worm

Whether it squares with game info or not is not the point. It is pure fantasy compared to any movie references we have seen of ANY jedi. Mace is by far my favorite Jedi, and I think he is one bad motha (shut yo mouth), but what was protrayed in that cartoon had nothing to do with Jedi.

You'll have to elaborate, since the Mace used in the cartoon was a tongue-in-super-deformed-cheek attempt at space opera heroism. Not too different from the Mace who jumped several stories to the ground, intact, to avoid Jango's flamethrower. Either way, he be baaaaad!


Originally posted by Dr_Worm
I actually did not stop watching becuase of that. I stopped becuase I did not have cable for a week (an outtage) and just never got back in to following it. I will probably pick it up when it comes out on DVD. If only becuase the ARC trooper episodes from season 1 were the best.

I'm kinda hoping (much to the detriment of my wound points) that Lucasfilm waits until all the episodes are completed... at the end of March.

::deftly Jedi-dodges assorted thrown legumes::


Originally posted by Dr_Worm
I disagree. I think that you underestimate the saturation of Cartoon Network. All my son's friends watch the heck out of it and followed the CW series better than I did. That being said it does not compare to the saturation of broadcast network programs. Lucas is in to the market potential as much as he is the story. Look...I am one of the few old-timers that reall likes the prequels, but even I can admit Lucas's decisions sometimes smack of market appeal overriding SW feel. I do not blame him for such actions, but they are there.

I agree, to a small extent, about Lucas's marketing ways. I just feel his need to tell a story overwhelmes the advantage of expanding his capital to finance more fare. It's more the provision of Lucasfilm to make decisions as for what to market and to whom. The two are treated seperately, so any saturation can only be brought about by the success of the TV show, not the other way around. Not quite a gaurantee as a new film.


Originally posted by Dr_Worm
I love animation, and I think it serves a great purpose in telling a certain type of story. You could never tell a story like Spirited Away as a live-action movie. It would never work. Be that as it may, regardless of the feelings of the minority you ( and to some extent, I) are part of, there is just not the same love and trust for animation in the US market that there is in Asian markets. Anime, and animation in general, is seen as a comedic vehicle by a large majority of the TV market.

That's the "comedic ghetto" that hinders the art. And that's where it will be consigned if no chances are taken. I'm sure science fiction wouldn't be as prosperous today if it weren't for the chances taken by a certain graduate of USC. He's been known to have an affinity to animation (which would explain three series), but he has announced his scant involvment to the show, so it's ultimately up to Lucasfilm to make that call.


Originally posted by Dr_Worm
I think you are just too optomistic.

Which is a bit strange, considering how naturally pessimistic I am (the status of animation in this country fuels that habit). I probably should've stated in my profile that I'm an Animation Nazi. Star Wars is the Great Exception in that it, and it only, could succeed in either form, but I believe that animation posesses a certain aesthetic that can emulate and interpret life better than life can. This can be true of almost any art form, considering that its purpose is to communicate beyond the boundaries of life. It's just that animation does this best, in my not so humble opinion.


Originally posted by Dr_Worm
As to the success of a live-action series...well I think I made it clear from the beginning that I think any kind of SW TV show is a bad idea. At least, however, people would be prepared to follow a dramtic serial if it had live actors. It would not require them to learn a new media format. I am not saying that is a good thing, but that is reality in the US.

What's to learn? The greatest obstacle would be to have people care about the characters as much as they did about Dumbo's mom... or Bambi's mom... hmmm, I sense a pattern here...

The problem with reality is that some people don't want to admit to weeping about a bunch of drawings. Or believing in a galaxy far, far away.


Originally posted by Dr_Worm
I do not condem it to be bad, I simply condem it to fail. NASCAR moms and dads are a huge maket for advertisers, and if they are not watching, then it will be tough for the show to succeed.

And frankly if the show is animated, and it does have the same kind of insane anime physics that the CW series had at times, it will not only fail with the unwashed masses, but also with hardcore SW fans.

That's one of the advantages of animation. Tartakovsky envisioned how he saw Star Wars. Others could interpret it in ways that an aesthetically-static live series couldn't. Also to mention is that, if successful, an animated entry wouldn't cost nearly as much per season as a bunch of ego-inflated actors who don't know how good they have it.

I feel that your need for this show to reach as large an audience as it can is as optimistic as my need to expand a narrow avenue for the benefit of an artform. One definite advantage is that, depending on where the show ends up, people could see it for free - a condition not afforded to a free network show made into a paid-admission feature film, like Star Trek. One definite disadvantage is the eventual and unrealistic hardcore vs unwashed debate as to what subject matter should be used, and if the latter are catered to, the so-called hardcore will cry such inanities as "rape" and "childhood".

However, if any major network gets a hold of the show, and its ratings fall slightly below what they feel they're justified for according to what beancounters tell them, collectors can say goodbye to Hasbro's Twin Pod Cloud Car and Jodo Kast molds. Then it'll be 1986 all over agin (the year Star Wars got kiboshed). Joss Whedon would only bring about that death sentence faster (... I'm just saying... :D).

Tao
27 November 2004, 06:45 AM
i would like to point out that either live action or animation is an art form, which leads to variations in interpretation and form. just as a still life of a bowl of fruit can be painted in thousands of different styles and forms, the same story can be portrayed in media in hundreds of different ways. it all depends on the artists (directors) vision.

my opinion is that the same story from Clone Wars could have been done in live action and no one would have thought twice. to be honest, within the battle of geonosis we see elements of jedi technique that i would have thought impossible. the yoda lightsaber scene seemed implausible before episode two. even the two lightsabers would have seemed "against the jedi style" before episode two. but when we saw it nobody thought that. we all just sat back and said, "wow... those jedi sure do kick ***" the problem with animation, is that it isnt widely accepted the same as live animation. it leaves room for doubt.

animation appeals to another audience... a younger audience. im actually very glad that lucas is picking up on the younger kids. why? because five years or so, starwars was in the closet. no one was really that stoked about it. it was old, and all but forgotten, except by the hardcore fans like ourselves (some of whom, myself for example, actually hid the fact that we were such big fans). now look at it. maybe its been marketted to hell, but im glad that it has. because without it, i wouldnt have the d20 rpg, the miniatures, the mini-series (instead of complaining about its flaws, be grateful that it even exists), and i can now walk around in public carrying a lightsaber and people dont even think twice about it (not that i do that regularly, but i could...) so marketting to the younger generation is a necesary evil for those of us who want to see this thing grow.

Dr_Worm
27 November 2004, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Reel 2/Dialogue 2 You'll have to elaborate, since the Mace used in the cartoon was a tongue-in-super-deformed-cheek attempt at space opera heroism. Not too different from the Mace who jumped several stories to the ground, intact, to avoid Jango's flamethrower. Either way, he be baaaaad!
The mace we see in that episode and the mace we see in the films are two different people entierly. Jumping down or up a few stories is a far cry from tthat jump. That was utter madness. That on top of destrying that whole droid army. If he was capable of that then there should have been no loss of Jedi life on geonosis. Heck they should have just dropped Mace in and told the other Jedi to have a tea party.

[quote]However, if any major network gets a hold of the show, and its ratings fall slightly below what they feel they're justified for according to what beancounters tell them, collectors can say goodbye to Hasbro's Twin Pod Cloud Car and Jodo Kast molds. Then it'll be 1986 all over agin (the year Star Wars got kiboshed). Joss Whedon would only bring about that death sentence faster (... I'm just saying... :D). [/B]

Which is why I think if this is done, and I caution against it, it should be in a medium that will reach people (the masses) from moment one and not require a learning curve. It has to catch them the first time or the show will die.

And your dislike Firefly is tempred by your Animation Nazi status. I honestly cannot fathom how anyone with an interest in space opera can not like that program without forming some kind of judgment before they see it. I do not care for other Whedon projects, but Firefliy was full of witty banter, interesting stories, and compelling characters. The space combat was non-existant, but I found that to be a refreshing change. To each thier own I guess.


Originally posted by Tao
animation appeals to another audience... a younger audience. im actually very glad that lucas is picking up on the younger kids. why? because five years or so, starwars was in the closet. no one was really that stoked about it. it was old, and all but forgotten, except by the hardcore fans like ourselves (some of whom, myself for example, actually hid the fact that we were such big fans). now look at it. maybe its been marketted to hell, but im glad that it has. because without it, i wouldnt have the d20 rpg, the miniatures, the mini-series (instead of complaining about its flaws, be grateful that it even exists), and i can now walk around in public carrying a lightsaber and people dont even think twice about it (not that i do that regularly, but i could...) so marketting to the younger generation is a necesary evil for those of us who want to see this thing grow.

As a father I certinly agree that it is great that Lucas appeals to kids. I do not mind the marketing either, can't blame a guy for wanting to make a living. If, however, Lucas is really interesting in telling further stories then he will be ONLY marketing it to kids and those adults of us that enjoy animation. That is not a huge audience, and the kid portion is generally not interested in a serial story, they just want more cool Jedi fights. I could be wrong though, my son enjoys the serial aspects of Yu-gi-oh (gag!), and one about getting a virtual chick out of a computer (I am bad with names, it is not a bad show). Perhaps I would just love ot see SW in the mainstream primetime lineup. It would turn being a SW nut from a finge activity to one that is more generally accepted.

Seghast
9 December 2004, 10:33 PM
The show should be animated, and based off my group's first campaign.

Jedi, Sith, an insane Jawa commando, a girl-chasing droid, a psychotic droid, a melee-lovin' Wookiee, and loads of other fun things! :D

darth venomous
19 December 2004, 09:15 PM
I'm surprised that no one suggested that the show would be post NJO. I mean think about. If any of the character of the New Republic make cameos, it's easier to do it in that time frame do to how much the actors have aged, or if need be make them look older. It's a hell of a lot harder to make them look young without the help of plastic surgery. It would be a like what they are doing with the Smallville-to-New Superman movies progress. Wait till the story line and the age of the actors catch up so that verisimilitude is intact. Plus with the whole passing the torch idea, we have a bunch of younger heros now that would be teh man charcters that would grab a wider audience and we have much less a problem of interferreing with previously published material. The reason that if the rumor is true about the actors from Episode III signing for a season of shows is that they will probably have parts in flash back sequences or some other tie back to the past of the SW storyline and since it wouldn't have been long after the movie was made they have a good amount of time between III and IV that they could talk about and use the same actors.

PneumaZ
22 December 2004, 01:39 PM
I think its a phenominal idea. But i agree, i believe the best time to set this up for would be in the New Jedi Order area. Maybe at the founding of the Jedi Academy, but i believe the New Jedi Order era would be best, for this simple reason: There is already an entire plot device written out, they would have no problems working up a series treatment from the Yuzahn Vong.

Mark Hamil is of the right age to play Luke 20 some odd years later and i am sure he would go for it. You could feature the solo twins, finally give Mara Jade an actresses face and really create a new story that doesnt have to do with the rise and fall of anakin skywalker/vader.

But then again, thats just me.