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Master Dao Rin
9 December 2004, 09:57 PM
And if so, how would you rate it? Good or bad?

Just curious ... :)

Rigil Kent
10 December 2004, 06:06 AM
I'm in the process of playing it now (Light Side) and am really enjoying it. I've heard that there is no upper level limit and I sincerely hope that this is true 'cause my character is already 17th level and I don't think I'm anywhere near completing it.

I really like the Influence system; it forces you to really consider exactly who it is that you're talking to when you respond.

Highly rated!

Tao
13 December 2004, 06:29 AM
love it. im currently playing lightside, and have risen to the rank of lightside master (yay!). i didnt play the first one, because i was out of the country, so i cant compare, but im loving this one.

Master Dao Rin
13 December 2004, 05:33 PM
Awesome. Thanks for the feedback, guys!

I'm so psyched by the game Feb can't come soon enough.

Tao
14 December 2004, 07:36 AM
whoo! a little update... im now a level 19 Jedi Watchman, Light Master, with a hardcore silver saber. this game seriously rules. buy it. everyone.

Rigil Kent
14 December 2004, 08:50 AM
Ended the game as a 26th level Jedi Weapon Master (not sure what level balance was). As good as the game was, the ending was a slight let-down but hardly worth complaint. Started over as a Jedi Sentinel and am righteously digging this class more than Guardian.

Can't wait to play as Eviiiiil. :emperor:

Tao
14 December 2004, 02:18 PM
yeah, the Jedi Sentinal is great, the Watchman seems to be the logical extension to that class, which is why I chose it. Incredible that youve already beaten it. I got it the day it came off and I can safely say Im no where near completing it. I have taken my sweet time though, and I dont play as often as I would like (though in all fairness, I still rank my girlfriend more important than Starwars, if marginally). My younger brother is playing as darkside, but he plays less than I do... and he doesnt even have a girlfriend... shameful.

watanabe2k
15 December 2004, 06:42 AM
I am lvl 22 for my lightside character (Jedi Master) and lvl 16 for my darkside character. I sort of take turns playing them, because I really want to see how the game progresses by the small things you do going dark or light.

That said, I'm really liking this game. Story is not that bad.........

Rigil Kent
15 December 2004, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Tao
Incredible that youve already beaten it.

Um...yeah...see I played really late every night of the week (except Friday aka D&D Game Night) and then on Saturday...

Suffice to say that the sun was coming up when I went to bed on Sunday. :rolleyes: Had nothing going on last weekend so it worked out.

watanabe2k
15 December 2004, 01:48 PM
If it wasn't for that damn thing called Grad School, Finals, Term Papers, Work, and Thesis, I would be playing more than 5 hours a day. Notice I say 5 hours a day, yeah I have only been sleeping 3 hours a night since this game came out because of finals week and the need to play. But no worries, come friday 4:30pm me and a 24 pack are gonna finish the game!

Night who says ni
15 December 2004, 04:07 PM
When does it come out on PC?

Nova Spice
15 December 2004, 06:26 PM
When does it come out on PC?

February 5, I believe.

Master Dao Rin
16 December 2004, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Rigil Kent
Ended the game as a 26th level Jedi Weapon Master (not sure what level balance was). As good as the game was, the ending was a slight let-down but hardly worth complaint. Started over as a Jedi Sentinel and am righteously digging this class more than Guardian.

Can't wait to play as Eviiiiil. :emperor:

What do you mean the ending was a slight let-down?

Don't mind spoilers, 'cause I'm one of those people who can know everything about the story and still enjoy playing it.

Rigil Kent
17 December 2004, 04:23 AM
No groovy ending scene, ala the first KotOR; just a conversation explaining what happens to the rest of the party...

Since I haven't finished it as a Bad Guy, I don't know if this is the same for them...

watanabe2k
17 December 2004, 06:08 AM
Yeah, some people weren't happy with the ending, but I won't talk about it. I wasn't bothered by it at all.

My biggest problem was that I got stuck on certain character's Yacht.......... for like a couple of hours, and eventually had to reload, because I destroyed something that I needed to get off of it.............. I thought that they would have made the game so that you couldn't get stuck in an area like that, but stuff happens................ Anyway, I'm close to have finishing for both dark and light.

Tao
17 December 2004, 06:27 AM
im so sorry about the yacht thing... i cant even imagine how you did that... oh... yes i can. aww... well let that be a lesson to you not to destroy EVERYTHING.

just what things have it coming to them.

Darien_Shadowfyre
19 December 2004, 07:36 AM
Fantastic game with only 2 real flaws.

1) Influence system, while fun, is lacking that magic that made you really enjoy having your NPCs around. They don't talk to each other (except in cut scenes when you board the Ebon Hawk, which are GREAT), and they don't ever want to talk TO you. You have to pull every detail out of them and kiss their butts the entire time to get anything even remotely interesting out of them. If another game is ever done, they should mix the systems from Kotor 1 & 2, to get that perfect blend.

2) Ending seems cobbled together the day before going gold. Or as my roommate summed it up, 38 hours of pure joy followed by 2 hours of pure @#$%. Others may disagree with me. Its a taste thing. I love a good story and get really into the mechanics of storytelling, which is part of the reason I loved this game so much for the first 38 hours. The end just leaves you sitting there waiting for the final cutscene to load, which never does.

That having been said, the journey is SO worth it though... Get this game if you can afford it. Just be warned, the ending doesn't live up to the rest of the game.

Master Dao Rin
20 December 2004, 11:05 AM
That's what other people seem to be saying.

I wonder if that ending leaves open the possibility of a sequel? Hmmm ...

watanabe2k
21 December 2004, 10:14 AM
Sequel, they gonna make another 3 or 4 of these and steal our money the way they are progressing the story !:mad:

That said, game is fun!

And has anyone else hit the lvl 50 cap?

Let's just say I was really bored now that I am on winterbreak and all my roommates are out of town.

Skreem
29 December 2004, 05:54 PM
... not to be a spoiler to everyone's fun here ...
However - I really have to disagree with dang near everyone - this game is NOT as good as the original. Don't get me wrong - the story is enjoyable, the characters and additions are well done... but the overall "quality" of the game - well so far (I'm nowhere near finishing mind you) I find it lacking. The basic KOTOR game engine is wonderful, and they made some good tweaks... but an amazing game engine does not an amazing game make.

The influence system - just doesn't always make sense... of course I feel that way about the conversation topics in general. Not to mention the extreme amount of what I would call bugs! As was mentioned earlier - being able to completely END YOUR GAME because you destroyed something that shouldn't have been... is... well... very poor design - now I haven't gone down that road yet to determine if there is still a way out of that situation, but needless to say - if you do what watanabe2k did, but your Autosave and manual saves are at just the "wrong" time, you would have to start over. Bad ju-ju.

Back to bugs in the dialogue sequences... I absolutely love the introduction of stats and skills into it... I think it's amazing - I also love that using one of these "enhanced" dialogue choices does not always get what would be "best", to be truly awesome - finally a game where you have to be thinking about everything you do... however it's SO buggy, not to mention irritatingly irrational at times, it borders on annoying - definitely frustrating. I mean - there are totally open ended statements akin to, "Don't you think we should do something?" that will end a conversation. As well - they leave conversation options that should be gone - having already gone over a topic from a different angle and gotten the individual mad (or happy) with you, they allow you to then turn around and do the exact opposite line of questioning. Yes, there was some of this in the original as well... but the original had much better dialogue options in general, so it wasn't as noticable - and it didn't loop back on itself as often. There is typically an extremely diverse discussion tree - however there are very limited responses, and so you get MANY repeats and loop-backs.

Then again, maybe I just think differently than the creators of this game, and that would be fine. Maybe I'm just a "one-off", and everyone truly disagrees with me. And that would be perfectly alright.

But I bet that if everyone played through KOTOR 1 with fresh eyes after playing 2, and really paid attention to the games and not just that they are playing Star Wars - they'd recognize that KOTOR 2 is much less of a game than KOTOR 1 was.

Again - I like KOTOR 2, and think it's a good game - but I'm spending a LOT less time exploring the game, and a lot more time being frustrated with the experience than I did with the original.
I certainly HOPE their's another sequal, and I hope that there is a better Q/A department. To be honest though - I won't flat-out buy the next one, if there is one - I will rent it first. Although I won't be returning KOTOR 2, I would rather have rented it, spent a weekend and blasted my way through it, then waited for a price drop and picked it up then to go through a second or third time for the various replayability aspects. Needless to say, I am not happy for the price.


Sorry about that rant everyone - really needed to get that off my chest. I'm really tempted to go through the game with a fine-tooth comb and send a letter to the developer, explaining the necessity of a quality Q/A team.

I'll come back and comment after I finish the game, but since I own it, I'm taking it slow and steady, analyzing my choices - so it might take me a week or two (only get to play after the kid and wife go to sleep ;) ).

Skreem

Master Dao Rin
30 December 2004, 03:36 PM
Thanks, Skreem.

Do you mean that if I choose a certain line of questions, I don't get to play a certain character class, like Jedi Sentinel? It doesn't give you a choice like it did in the first game?

Master Dao Rin
30 December 2004, 03:41 PM
When you hit either 100% Lightside or Darkside, is there a bonus?

In the first game you received a +3 to a stat if LS or +40 FP if DS. Is it the same?

Skreem
31 December 2004, 12:13 PM
Master Dao Rin,

I don't think I've found anything like what you expressed in the dialogue "bugs". I was more referring to what equates to poorly designed (and tested) dialogue choices. Open ended questions end conversations. Heck, I inadvertantly "agreed" to assist with a quest that I had no intention of, simply because I asked the wrong question - so now on my incomplete quests list I have "Agreed to help with X", of which I had no intention to. Mostly things like that.

Although what watanabe2k expressed is something I'm not surprised about. Heck - there are "Locked" doors and objects that don't even give an option to attempt to pick it - yes yes, you are supposed to do something different to open these doors, but how can a "Locked" object NOT be picked? Heck - there are "doors" that don't exist in the game... they used the door texture, without it being an actual door.

Quality control was REALLY poor... there are way too many times where instead of being sucked INTO the game, I'm forced OUT of the game because of annoying things like I've expressed.

Nova Spice
2 January 2005, 09:09 AM
When you hit either 100% Lightside or Darkside, is there a bonus?

Yes there is, Dao.

I'm a Light Side Master and I gained a +3 bonus to my Constitution score. :D

I'm about 26 hours into the game, and to be perfectly honest, I'm thoroughly enjoying it. The game has been thrilling thus far in the same vein that the original was.

The Big Time Pros:

-The Influence System is great. I love being able to access more information from your party by gaining influence through various quests, actions, and dialogue in the game. It's something that the original game should have included.
-The Character Development is outstanding thus far. I find this character instantly more intriguing and interesting that the original KOTOR. Granted, the big surprise at the end made the original KOTOR spectacular, but the main character in KOTOR II at my current point in the game, is vastly more interesting than the first. And the members of your party are also much more varied with many of them not liking each other due to their own pasts. That was something the original lacked as well.
-The Sith are way more freaky and intimidating than Darth Malak and his followers in the original KOTOR. The two Sith Lords are incredibly scary and frightening in this game, and similar to the main character situation, they are also more interesting.
-The Master-Apprentice approach is essential to what is cool about KOTOR II. Kreia is quite possibly one of the most interesting and thought-provoking characters in the entire Star Wars lore. She reminds me a lot of Vergere, which is definitely a good thing. :D
-There are twice as many feats as the original.
-There are easily twice as many alien species NPCs walking around--including Chadra-Fans, Weequay, Gand, Gran, Trandoshans, Zeltron, Devaronians, and Sullustans.

Once I finish the game, I'll post more on my own thoughts, and add a list of Cons as well. But until that time, I've got some Exchange thugs and Sith Lords to beat down. :D

Master Dao Rin
8 January 2005, 09:01 AM
Thanks Nova!

Any word on who comes back from the first? I liked that old coot, Jolee.

Actually, loved all the supporting characters.

:D

Skreem, I think those problems you mentioned all occuring in the first episode too. I got things like that happening when my computer freaked out on me with the refresh rate and stuff. I simply save the game, log out and reload and that always fixes the problem.

guaeko
8 January 2005, 02:58 PM
The recurring characters I have come across are Carth, who isn't in the party but is a background character you see in certain cutscenes; Bastila, who you don't really meet, but you meet a vision of her; both droids are in your party; Jolee, you see no sign of, but there is a conversation choice that you can mention him in; and finally, I'm positive that Mandalore is Canderous.

Dr_Worm
10 January 2005, 11:48 PM
Mandalore is indeed Canderous. Krea states it in passing at the end

I finnished the game as a Sentinal/Watchman (LS) and it was absolutely fabulous. Skreem: I have to dissagree with you on nearly all your points. The Influence system works so well, and it is evem more obvious on the second play through as you take different choices and paths.
Though I will say now that any effort to knock Krea off the philosiphical fence is pointless. Influence with her will net you more force training. Though it sometimes comes at the cost of influence with others.

The ending was so horrible, though. It was exactly as others have said. I kept thinking that their must be more...that I had missed something. The game just seemed to hang there.

Be that as it may I turned right around and started the game again as a consular (boy are they not kidding about being an experienced player...they are tough to play until you get companions.) that has just gotten a few levels of Sith Master. The darkside is harder than I thought it would be. As a full LS character heal and destroy doid were you best friends, but darksiders are lame at those powers. If you want any influence with your party members you need to mollify your urges somewhat, so getting DS points is only a little faster than getting LS points. I am enjoying working on Handmaiden...boy is she a pain to sway towads force training. I think I am only one influence away, but I cannot be sure.

I still say that even though they did give ranged combat a boost, they need to work on it more. At one point one of your ranged companions has to fight aginst melee opponents, and were it not for a glitch, or preplanning stemmed from playing through once, I would never have gotten out of there.

Mr. Fett
11 January 2005, 03:06 AM
Let me say that I loved both Kotor I and II but the end of Kotor II left me hanging there. While the ending was very pretty and graphically well done it was rather well open for interpretation. It was definitily set for yet another sequel. Which if you think about it would be cool because it could be your character exploring the unknown regions or some other equally "unknown region". Think that they have the game mechanics down and other than the annoying glitches (e.g. lightsaber staying on, freezing and running two miles as soon as it unfreezes) but they still need to fill more into the story and instead of just having lots of planets with lots of enemies (which is cool mind you) it should be lots of story plus a good bit of fighting. I'm the kind of person that reads every convo choice. To tell the truth pushing x ten thousand times gets a little old.

johnnyputrid
11 January 2005, 04:52 AM
After having put countless hours into this game, I have to say kudos to Obsidian for the job they did. Despite several bugs, glitches and assorted strange things that occur in the game (some of which are actually very useful), KotOR II is a real step above the first game. I know I should probably include some spoiler tags here, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to get them to work.:D

First of all, I like the characters so much more in this game as oppossed to the first. One of the things that really struck me was how each character that joins your party is connected to your character by way of their past histories. Each character that joins your team is an exile of sorts in their own right. Each character has a specific reason for joining you, taking them away from their previous life. Also, each character has been touched by the Mandalorian Wars in some way, either directly or indirectly. In a sense, each character in your party is a product of that final battle at Malachor V ten years ago, so each has some reason for connecting with you.

The ending is what seems to bother people the most, but personally I like the cliffhanger-type ending. Granted, they should've at the very least shown a few images of the rest of the party doing something. But there is a specific conversation at the end that lets you know that your party members do indeed live on and accomplish something. The story is essentially focused on your character's actions, and the final battle of the game is supposed to be personal, without distractions. This they achieved, in a way that leaves the rest of the story very open to interpretation. Hopefully there will be a KotOR III to clear things up. If LucasArts is paying attention to sales, this game is selling like hotcakes, and there is a strong desire for a follow up to this game. Tthey would be seriously stupid to not take advantage of it.

Now, on to the good stuff. The classes, particularly the Jedi classses, are vastly improved from KotOR I. Even with standard equipment, all of the characters can become mega-powerhouses, which is what most gamers want anyway. The Jedi classes are almost too powerful, especially for the main character. I don't think anything could've stopped my LS Sentinal/Weaponmaster by the end of the game. I actually had to select feats and powers I was NEVER going to use, just to fill in the blank spots. And forget about skills. I had every class skill, and was nearly maxed out in all of them. There was no computer I couldn't slice, no lock I couldn't open, no enemies I couldn't sneak by and no broken droids I couldn't fix. Due to the large amount of new ranged feats, I was finally able to realize my dream of becoming a dual-pistol wielding Jedi attack monster. My pistols were just as powerful as my lightsaber, and in most cases I could dispatch enemies before they got within 10 feet of me.

But the best addition to this game has to be the new and improved Workbench. Workbench is your friend. Talk to Workench, give it items to break down, and it will reward you with ultra-powerful upgrades for your weapons and armor. Of all your companions on your grand adventure, Workbench is there for you during those times of significant influence loss with other party members. Workbench does not care if your are good or evil. Workbench will be waiting for somewhere on each planet you go to, patiently awaiting new items for it to devour. Workbench is your staunch supporter and closest ally. Treat Workbench with dignity and kindness. Just make sure that the main character has a high Repair score, otherwise Workbench will only give you 1 component for each item you break down. Workbench deals out components based on the main character's Repair score.

And for you new players (and even some vets) I strongly recommend avoiding the Force Aura/Shield/Armor line of powers. Due to a glitch, they DO NOT provide any defense bonus whatsoever. They only provide bonuses to your saving throws, which you can get just as easily from the Valor line of powers. The Speed powers do not provide a defense bonus either, but they are useful enough as they are. I'm sure the PC version will fix this glitch, but for us X-box players, the Force Aura powers are essentially worthless.

I give KotOR II a 9 out of 10. If the ending had been a bit better, it would've surel scored higher.:D

neolink111
13 January 2005, 05:58 PM
I'm still in the process of playing this game. I think it's just as good as the first one (once you get used to it, which unfortunately took me a while coming from a nintendo home XD). The only thing is that Mr. Fett only let's me use his X-box every now and then to play it. (THHHSSPP) lol. Anyways, good game, very good game.:yoda:

Skreem
14 January 2005, 06:49 PM
(sigh) After completing the story (first time through only - playing Halo2 now.. ;) )... I simply have to restate my unfortunate unhappiness with this game. For those that have said that "these problems were there in the first one", or "it works really well - especially the second time through", or what-have-you; if you examine what was done by Obsidian to create this game you will see that not a single thing Obsidian did was clean, complete.
First - before I go off more here, it's a known fact that the game was rushed to completion by LucasArts pressure to have a XMas release.

Okay, now that we all know the game was rushed... let me address the things that Obsidian added: there was not one new model in the game that I thought was as well done as the first - whether it be character or object or background - the model artists were not up to the same caliber as the first. Sure - not a "show stopper", but still added to my unhappiness.
The new combat forms/force techniques although a neat idea, were truly limited in my experience as far as usability. Not to mention, didn't always live up to their name - especially considering that the bonuses they provide are so minor in most instances that made them basically useless. I found 2 forms to be useful at all throughout the game - Sho Chi (?) which is usefull against multiple enemies (and the form the character will default to after any loading sequence - including conversations so you have to reselect a form after having a conversation when you have that all important discussion before the fight), and Agression. Sure, some of this was because of my force skill choices based on my class choices (Jedi Guardian/Jedi Master with Master Speed and double-bladed LS = 1 round kill on all but the bosses), but from what I've heard of other's experience... any combination except Consular/Master has basically the same effect. The 2 points bonus from the combat form did not make a difference when my AR was their base defense. Sure, the forms should allow a Consular to be able to be effective with a LS against the bosses, but I didn't do ANY major tweaking with my character, didn't manipulate the game to min/max at all... and combat was a cake-walk in all but the very last fight.
Plus as stated in a previous post, some of the force powers are buggy. And many people are complaining about the non-stated requirements to become a prestige class.

Wow - that second one took longer than I was expecting. Third, the dialogue again is just STUPID at many times, not to mention buggy. I lost influence with a charcter that wasn't even in my party at the time (theoretically not supposed to happen). Plus if you gain too much influence with a character before a certain event happens, you won't be able to do something (specific item not mentioned for spoiler reasons). Plus again, I found more open ended statements that end conversations... they should at LEAST bring you back to the original converstaion list.

The ending was without a doubt rushed - and there are so many incompleted plot-points, it's not even funny. Suffice it to say that there is a cut-scene that never gets resolved, and as far as I can tell, I abandoned a party member without my own knowledge or intervention.
Frustrating to say the least.

I could go on, but I'm going to keep this short. As it stands, Obsidian took a completed game engine, made some adjustments to it which in the end caused more bugs than should be acceptable. Code tweaking grade: D
They took previous areas and adjusted them to fit the new storyline, and created new areas and player models, but the new models were not as well done. Graphics grade: B
As with the first, conversations could be approached in ways that the Character/Player has NO KNOWLEDGE OF (nor could have even considering the story-line), many conversations threads were not designed in logical manners (if you worked them down from the first to the last they usually worked out, but force forbid you try to take them out of sequence), conversations end abrubtly, new influence system was not consistent (this one is obviously up for debate). Writing grade: C
They took something that is commonly considered one of the best games ever, and created a sequel only living up to that caliber in one aspect of the game while using the same base engine. Sequel grade: D-
I just mentioned one aspect of the game that I think completely lived up to the first - and that is the story. I think that the overal design of the story and its presentation throughout the game is wonderful. They came up with a simple way to explain so much that many people complain about typically with computer games and worked it in very elegantly (although they left it incomplete because although they explain that phenomenon with regards to the primary PC, it doesn't explain the same in the other characters... oh well, easy to shrug that one off). I think the story concept and design deserve a resounding: A+

Overall grade in my book: C+.
Which I find to be a complete shame because I grade Kotor I as a solid A-. I find it very difficult to believe that in all the tweaking that Obsidian did to the engine, they didn't fix the problems of the first (poor converstaion choices, undesirable responses forcing Light/Dark in non-pivitol encounters, buggy force powers, enemies with unbelievable stats (base will save of 60 something on some cannon-fodder, "special bonus +19" or something stupid), quests... oh the quests that just were yet again buggy. I could go on more, but will stop there.

Again - the game is good... I just am very frustrated.
Back to my little hole of the universe for a bit.
Skreem

Dr_Worm
14 January 2005, 08:29 PM
Boy Skreem, not sure where you are comming from. I cannot think of one console game that has better inter-personaly story growth (with the exception of the far too short "Fable"). In fact I thought this on the same level as many PC RPGs. The conversation threads, if difficult at times, were by not means irrelivant, and made sense in the context of the character. With KOTOR 1 I did not feel compelled to play again to find out more about the characters. The only reason I played through again was to try the darkside path. With this new sequal, though, I have had a hell of a time playing through to unlock new character depth the second time around. There are still characters I have not dealt with much, and I am almost done with the game as a darksider.

One thing I have been impressed with is the way the story changes depeding on your order of travel. I did not notice too much differnce in KOTOR 1, but in 2 the NPC and compaion reactions are quite different.

I will soon set the game aside and finish THUG 2 (heh...found the Star Wars kid), and after that start Goldeneye, but I will surely come back to the game again.

One thing I really want for KOTOR 3...I want to play an alien!!!!

proxima centauri
17 January 2005, 10:54 AM
What I find frustrating so far (I've only escaped the 1st place so far) is that the dialogue does not always gives you the choice of conversation a normal movie character would say.

Keila... when you first meet her, she does not tell you she is a Jedi. When she joins your party, you see she actually has Jedi class levels. Yet, your character never asks her if she is a Jedi or not, and she keeps referring to you as the last Jedi... Now... I know she's supposed to be mysterious, but that doesn't mean your character has to be dumb!

And there are some glicthy bugs... cosmetic though:


I gave Keila a better armor, yet, she is always portrayed as having her cape! Come on! If you don't want her to change appearance, don'T allow me to change her armor!!!


So far I like the game, but I think (it's only a feeling) I will always prefer KOTOR I. We'll see.

proxima centauri
17 January 2005, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by Dr_Worm
One thing I really want for KOTOR 3...I want to play an alien!!!! [/B]

Yes!

Not that it would be that difficult... Alien talk is always the same anyway! :) so they wouldn't need new recording of voices.

proxima centauri
17 January 2005, 11:23 AM
Oh... another thing...


I think they should not have shown HK-50's image in the cutscene at the very beginning. As soon as I saw this, I know HK-50 was not a good guy. That diminished somehow the impact of the relationship HK-50 tried to forged with my character later in the game. I never doubted he was lying to me... It's unfortunate, cause it was well thought.

But as always, the HK unit was really, really funny.

Master Dao Rin
21 January 2005, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by Dr_Worm
Be that as it may I turned right around and started the game again as a consular (boy are they not kidding about being an experienced player...they are tough to play until you get companions.) that has just gotten a few levels of Sith Master.

What do you mean by that, good Dr.?

I sure hope taking one class over the other doesn't change the difficulty level of the game ...

On another note: what special abilities do these core classes come with? The same as were in the previous game? ( Force Jump, Fear Immunity, Focus? )

Dr_Worm
21 January 2005, 04:40 PM
In a sense it does. The Sentinal and the Gaurdian eclips the Consular in straight combat pretty obviously. In the early game you survive on straight combat, because you have no companions to help you out. As the Consular gains a few level he blows up though becuase some levels he gets 2 force powers. Towards the end you end up as a force machine, especially if you are dark.

When I played a consular I ended up taking an extra class skill feat for Security. You also do not have Stealth or Demolitions as class skills and they are quite handy in the early game.

Nova Spice
23 January 2005, 09:34 AM
Well, I'm going to have agree with some of the sentiments already posted in this thread.

I loved the game, right up until the return to Citadel Station. From there, things became sketchy. The game was very rushed from that point onward, resulting in several unexplained events that could have used some elaboration.

The big problems I had were:

1. The dialogue starting at the return to Citadel Station was broken and didn't make a lot of sense in some instances.

2. Soldiers from Onderon and the militia from Dantooine just show up on Citadel Station without any elaboration as to how they got there.

3. Darth Nihilus was a joke. He's on the cover of the game, was shown to be frightening, and according to Visas, was supposedly this all-powerful vortex of death and destruction.

He was ludicrously easy to beat. And he seemed to serve no purpose to the story whatsoever.

Huge disappointment.

4. I hated the fact that I was forced to use both Mandalore and Visas aboard the Ravager. And from that point onward, you don't get to choose your companions any longer--that's kind of a cheap way to end the story.

5. When you crash on Malachore V, you're not able to take any of your companions with you. Why? There's no explanation for this. And for some reason they felt compelled to utilize Bao-Dur's droid and G0-T0, without resolving that particular arc. For a moment, I thought I was going to be able to resolve each character individually, which would have been a much better way to pay out the story.

6. The ending stinks. It's that simple. The Trayus Academy was somewhat intriguing, but Darth Sion and Darth Traya are just lame. There's no explanation as to Sion's importance, other than to just be there--kinda like Darth Nihilus.

Unlike KOTOR, I won't be playing back through this game. It unfortunately fizzled out at the end. Big disappointment considering that during the actual playthrough of the game, I was stoked.

Sorry, the sequel just didn't deliver for me.

This game needed another year of development.

Jerek Redscar
10 February 2005, 02:43 PM
I enjoyed this game...right up to the End. The End could have been so much better, and that's my biggest gripe with this game. I've played it twice through, once as a Light Side sentinal and once with a Dark Side consular.

PROS:

--Much better character development than the first game...you can really get interested in The Exile's history and even decide why he did the things s/he did.
--The Influence System is a great idea, and the more your party members side with your decisions, the more interesting your conversations get.
--The Improved Workbench system lets you break down everything you don't need and make tons of interesting things.
--You get to run around with characters other than your main one! Yes! It's fun to run around as the auxiliary members of your team.
--More powers and feats than the first game! The Precise Shot shain is especially welcome, letting you get more out of your ranged characters.
--New Lightsaber colors! I REALLY liked the new lightsaber color shcemes, as well as the insane amount of customization you can do with a lightsaber.

CONS:

--The ending was too much of a letdown, which is a BIG problem for such a great game. I've noticed others on this thread agree with me. Comparing it to the ending of KotOR I:
--You go through the place on your own, but it's rediculously easy if you are high enough level.

Malachor V's Storm beasts are wimps to fight, especially if you're at level 26-27 (like I was). Even the giant, Rancor-sized boss beasty was easy enough if you Force Crushed him or turned on Force Enlightenment and just hacked away.

Similarly, Darth Nihilus, the creepy Sith Lord whi sends Visas after you, is laughably easy to defeat, and he doesn't even use any Foce Powers I've seen other than Force Lightning. In fact, the same can be said for ALL the last bosses...they don't fight intellegently, they just use the Aggressive mode all the time. You don't even get to chase Darth Traya around like you chased Darth Malak in the first game.

--Another thing that annoyed me was that the ability to play characters other than your main one seemed to be a big theme of the game, but it wasnb't utilized during the ending [when it should have come out most].
--One thing I missed from the original KotOR were the character-driven subplots that you could unlock through talking to your companions enough about their history. Since this game was more character driven, it would have made more sense for something similar to be implemented.

That's my two credits, at any rate.

proxima centauri
10 February 2005, 07:11 PM
Totally agree.

So while it's a good game, it is nowhere near the perfection the first KOTOR was. ;)

Jerek Redscar
11 February 2005, 02:16 AM
Totally agree.

So while it's a good game, it is nowhere near the perfection the first KOTOR was.

Now wait a minute, Proxima Centauri. I never said I didn't like the game as much as the first one, I just said there were things that bugged me about it. To be honest, I enjoyed the gameplay more than the first KotOR, since it gave me a chance to actually play a character that changed his envrionment based on his reactions, something that wasn't stressed as much in the previous installment or, indeed, in a game like Fable.

I was irrittated that the ending seemed a little rushed and underdeveloped, but the actual game itself did not leave me unsatisfied. I was just unsatisfied that the ending didn't really challenge me or make use of all the abilites I had at my disposal. I know I'll play KotORII more often than the orginal, because unlike a great many other RPGs that claim to change based on your character's choices (*cough*Fable*cough*) this one really delivered.

Master Dao Rin
11 February 2005, 09:22 AM
Just bought the game yesterday.

Only had a chance to get off the Ebon Hawk into Peragus station. What I can say so far is mostly cons:

The video sequences are poor. It looks like they just copied over from the X-box version instead of straight from a video file for the PC. Mainly the pictures are fuzzy and have weird colours ( red streaks from the asteriods / starfields all blue splotches ).

Some of the dialogue choices don't make sense even right at the beginning. For example: I realize that I'm directing the story in the dialogue choices I'm making talking to Kreia and Atton, but a little background on the main character would be nice to prepare me on thinking about his/her backstory. Immediately, I'm presented with an odd choice: " No, I don't want that. I never want to feel [the Force] again." or something like that.

Why would I say that? What's the logic in me choosing that dialogue choice within the context of the game? Do I remember my history or not? It's like I'm playing an amnesia character all over again.

More main character set-up would have been nice rather than just the scroll-up.

A small gripe: In the manual, they didn't list out the class progression levels like they did in the first one, except vague descriptions of "fast, average, slow" FP, Skills, and Feat progression. Same with the prestige classes. What do I get at 5th level for being a Jedi Guardian?

I'm a person that likes to plan out their progression, this is a big drawback.

Another question I have is: Do we get to choose more than one prestige class? It isn't clear. It seems to me that that won't happen, which is a shame, since I would want to get levels in Jedi Master and one of the other prestige classes at the same time.

I do, however, like the hologram dialogues and the fact that your skills help determine just how much information you receive from a conversation. And every skill counts now too. Plus, the fact that persuade is a class skill for the main character.

The bitmaps look good. Overall, I'm cautiously optomistic. Definitely can't wait for end of day today. :)

proxima centauri
11 February 2005, 09:23 AM
What also bugged me aside from what you already mentionned is the unresolved side quests. For instance, the one about goold old HK...

Also, at the end, the little episode with the wookie... that was totally not useful... and was kind of out of place.

While I had fun playing it, the fact that there are so many rough edges hurt my enjoyment of the game.

I haven't played Fable yet. Maybe I should :)

Master Dao Rin
11 February 2005, 09:26 AM
You only get Hanharr if you elect to go Dark Side, right?

That's something I miss from the original game: the fact that you could pretend that you were good, but still be dark to the core.

proxima centauri
11 February 2005, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by Master Dao Rin

Some of the dialogue choices don't make sense even right at the beginning. For example: I realize that I'm directing the story in the dialogue choices I'm making talking to Kreia and Atton, but a little background on the main character would be nice to prepare me on thinking about his/her backstory. Immediately, I'm presented with an odd choice: " No, I don't want that. I never want to feel [the Force] again." or something like that.

Why would I say that? What's the logic in me choosing that dialogue choice within the context of the game? Do I remember my history or not? It's like I'm playing an amnesia character all over again.


Get used to it, it only gets worse. In a way, you are kind of playing an amnesiac character.



Another question I have is: Do we get to choose more than one prestige class? It isn't clear. It seems to me that that won't happen, which is a shame, since I would want to get levels in Jedi Master and one of the other prestige classes at the same time.


No. When you reach Level 16, talk to Kreya and you'll choose ONE prestige class. That's it.



Definitely can't wait for end of day today. :)

Unfortunatly, that's exactly what is the most disapointing, so my suggestion is that you spend a lot of time side-questing... cause it's realy more fun than the conclusion.

Have fun though! :)

Edit: Yes... the wookie only if you are a DSider. other wise it's the bounty hunter chick (forget the name).

Master Dao Rin
11 February 2005, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by proxima centauri
Get used to it, it only gets worse. In a way, you are kind of playing an amnesiac character.

Thanks for the quick reply prox. Would you be able suggest what I think about to help smooth the choice of dialgoue? What I mean is: whats the "big choice" my character has to think about at the climax of the story? Is it the fact that I have to choose to be a Jedi again? Or is it that I have to choose to save someone? Or what?



Originally posted by proxima centauri
No. When you reach Level 16, talk to Kreya and you'll choose ONE prestige class. That's it.

Okay, I can live with that I guess. But the manual kind of leads me to believe, for example, choosing the Jedi Guardian only leads into the Jedi Weapon Master prestige class. Can I choose JG / Watchman?

proxima centauri
11 February 2005, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Master Dao Rin


Thanks for the quick reply prox. Would you be able suggest what I think about to help smooth the choice of dialgoue? What I mean is: whats the "big choice" my character has to think about at the climax of the story? Is it the fact that I have to choose to be a Jedi again? Or is it that I have to choose to save someone? Or what?


Hmmm I can't think of one particular choice you make at the climax that would really make a difference...
:rolleyes:

Although the recurring theme is "why" you were stripped of your powers.



Okay, I can live with that I guess. But the manual kind of leads me to believe, for example, choosing the Jedi Guardian only leads into the Jedi Weapon Master prestige class. Can I choose JG / Watchman?

Although I chose the Jedi Guardian / Weapon Master combo (hey... power gamer to the bone!) I believe I was given the choice of any of the 3 prestige classes.

Rogue Janson
11 February 2005, 10:25 AM
I walked in on my housemate, who got the game today, earlier and he was using force lightning on a fire extinguisher...

Dr_Worm
11 February 2005, 12:40 PM
If you go light you get Mira instead of Hanhar. I found Mira to be much more usefull in my LS game than Hanharr was in my DS game. Mira has a cool feature that allows her to lead your party through minefields without triggering them.

The way I see the odd stroy threads at the beginning is that they are there it give you a chance to personalize your character. It is not so much that you need to know something about your character to choose "I will never touch the force again", it is more like if you take that attitude then the stroy will unfold around that stance. It is an attempt to simulate true roleplaying, while integrating the character's story in to the overall story.

When you choose your PrC you chan choose one of three regardless of the class you choose to start.

Oh, and yes it is quite usefull to force lightning fire extinguishers. One lame part of the game is that the harm droid power tree is LS, so if you are a DSer then destroy Droid is quite weak, where as FL is pretty nasty.

Master Dao Rin
11 February 2005, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by proxima centauri
Hmmm I can't think of one particular choice you make at the climax that would really make a difference...
:rolleyes:

Although the recurring theme is "why" you were stripped of your powers.

LOL.

Well, that does help some. At least then I can approach the dialogue choices with the same question.

Master Dao Rin
11 February 2005, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Dr_Worm
The way I see the odd stroy threads at the beginning is that they are there it give you a chance to personalize your character. It is not so much that you need to know something about your character to choose "I will never touch the force again", it is more like if you take that attitude then the stroy will unfold around that stance. It is an attempt to simulate true roleplaying, while integrating the character's story in to the overall story.

Hmmm. Well, that's not good. I want to have one stance at the beginning of the story and change my attitude over the course of the story to the truly heroic choice at the climax of the adventure.

johnnyputrid
11 February 2005, 07:27 PM
Personally I think that's the beauty of the game, the fact that you can dramitically shift your alignment throughout the game, even staying 'nuetral' if you want. While not possessing the depth of a true role-playijng experience (since there are numerous scripted events that you pretty much have to go along with), your level of influence with your party members alos affects their alignment. You can gain a ton of inlfuence with a normally good character (Handmaiden, for instance) and then go fully dark and 'corrupt' her character. I thought that was an awesome touch. Atton in particular, is very cloesly tied to your current alignment if you have significant influence with him. His dark side one-liners and reactions are pretty neat to hear.

Oh, and you get to choose your PrC at 15th level, not 16th. Once you hit 15th level, speak with Kreia and the choice dialogue tree opens up. But you must have Visas in your party to select a PrC. If she isn't in your party, you won't get the option, but it shows up as soon as she joins you. If you follow up every sidequest you can, and kill every enemy you run across, you should end up with your base class and PrC at 15/15. 15th level is the earliest you can get your PrC, though you can wait until later to choose, or even skip picking one if that's what you want. I played one game as a level 30 Sentinel, and didn't really even miss any of the PrC class features.

Despite all the games glitches and flaws, I still think it tops KotOR I because of the game's random items and increased flexibility in feats and options. Plus its just too much fun to run through the last chapter with a level 28 Sith Maraduer, slaying everything in sight in just one or two hits. I mean, isn't that what videogaming is all about?

readyjedi pilot
13 February 2005, 01:14 PM
it just came out over here on friday in britain and its incredible played it almost continuesly. the best class is way the consular/master at the end you just walk through with full speed/shield and battle meditation didn't get hit once in the final battle just wish it was longer

Master Dao Rin
15 February 2005, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by johnnyputrid
Personally I think that's the beauty of the game, the fact that you can dramitically shift your alignment throughout the game, even staying 'nuetral' if you want. While not possessing the depth of a true role-playijng experience (since there are numerous scripted events that you pretty much have to go along with), your level of influence with your party members alos affects their alignment.

Oh, and you get to choose your PrC at 15th level, not 16th.

Hmm. That's another thing. I cannot tell how much influence I have with everyone. That would be nice to know. Not only that, but I'm suspecting that when it says that influence is gained with a character, it just is a one shot boost. My fear is that, there are several opportunites to change a person's influence throughout a dialogue run, but that it only counts for one of them?

Is it the same for LS/DS point gains? When I get LS points, for instance, does it include every point increase into one big boost? Or should I log out of a conversation and then talk to the character each time about a different topic logging out after every dialogue tree?

Another real big annoyance ( at least for the PC version ) is that I noticed that every time a cutscene plays, I lose my Jedi robes. They just vanish with all the upgrades too. It happened on Peragus too, my miner's uniform vanished from my body. It freakin' annoying, especially with the random item generation thing. And it's only Jedi Robes. Baran Do sage robes ( the only ones I've gotten so far, anyway ) stay with me. Weird.

Overall, however, I'm enjoying the game thoroughly.

johnnyputrid
15 February 2005, 01:26 PM
The robe loss thing must be a glitch of some sort. I've never encountered that on the X-box version. Though I have received the dreaded "black screen of death", where the game simply freezes and the screen turns black, forcing you to restart the console. If its not one glitch, its another.

As far as tracking your infuence goes, there really isn't any way to do it. But, like LS and DS points, certain actions do net you more influence than others. For instance, killing one innocent civilian might net you a couple of DS points and some minor influence loss (or gain) with one of your party members. But killing an innocent, after you've threatened him and taken a vow to seek out and destroy any of his family members might net you a large amount of DS points and considerable influence loss (or gain) with a party member. But for the most part, the influence system seems to work in "steps". You need so many "steps" to get Conversation A out of so-and-so, and so forth. The only real problem is that some of the party members, GO-T0 for instance, requires you to gain both LS and DS points to fully open up his conversation trees. If you are trying to stay pure, this is a problem.

If you want to get the most out of your conversations, save prior to speaking with them. That way you can steer the conversation however you want, then just reload if things don't work out well. Heh, too bad I can't do that with women. It would make dating so much easier.:D

cheshire
16 February 2005, 06:17 AM
Best improvement:
Princess Leia's gold bikini!

Biggest gripes:
(1) The gold bikini cannot be equiped to male characters
(2) No alien woman has said "Muka shakka pakka," to me.

:)

proxima centauri
16 February 2005, 10:52 AM
Have you noticed that however you choose to dress Kreya, she never changes appearance?

Too bad.

Vjerzag
16 February 2005, 06:06 PM
I finished it...now. It is 03:35 and after a 3 days of playing as much as I could one little thing is not right. I played JG pure LS - none DS point gained and I have to say on normal seting, game is to easy. Once I reached 20 level (infact somewhere from 15 level) I can kill every oponent with 1 hit (Master Fllury & master speed is ON). Darth Sion: 2 hits in all 3 rounds. Visas Master: 3 hits, and Keira; with best seting and choice of skills & powers I could make for her - just 4 hits. So feeling of tough fight is completly missing. But story is excelent, much better than 1st KotOR. I hope DS is tougher.

I would like to see how other players ahve develop their characters, so anyone interested pelase post character sheet with best equipment and Lightsaber combo.

I think I'll start now playing on dark side, and do it alone, without sidekicks and on dificult level. But... tomowor I have to catch some sleep before crosing to the Dark side.

Jerek Redscar
16 February 2005, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by proxima centauri
Have you noticed that however you choose to dress Kreya, she never changes appearance?

Too bad.

The same for Visas. Even if you unequip her clothing (essentially making her naked), her appearance does not change. don't know if giving her Armor changes her appeatance, though.

Er...um...not that I've tried that, you understand...;)


I finished it...now. It is 03:35 and after a 3 days of playing as much as I could one little thing is not right. I played JG pure LS - none DS point gained and I have to say on normal seting, game is to easy. Once I reached 20 level (infact somewhere from 15 level) I can kill every oponent with 1 hit (Master Fllury & master speed is ON). Darth Sion: 2 hits in all 3 rounds. Visas Master: 3 hits, and Keira; with best seting and choice of skills & powers I could make for her - just 4 hits. So feeling of tough fight is completly missing. But story is excelent, much better than 1st KotOR. I hope DS is tougher.

I would like to see how other players ahve develop their characters, so anyone interested pelase post character sheet with best equipment and Lightsaber combo.

I think I'll start now playing on dark side, and do it alone, without sidekicks and on dificult level. But... tomowor I have to catch some sleep before crosing to the Dark side.

Trust me, when you have Insanity and Force Crush, the final bosses aren't much of a challenge, either. The real fun I got out of the game was roleplaying my character, not being challenged in video game fashion...

watanabe2k
18 February 2005, 08:23 AM
Yeah, the game is all about roleplaying, even on the hardest setting, the game really doesn't present anything that is tough to fight against.

That said I traded my copy in last night (after beating the game 5 times) and helped pay off Republic Commando. :D

The thing is I still own KOTOR I, cause I think something about just feels better.........

Master Dao Rin
7 March 2005, 03:17 PM
Any success with Mira?

I'm three planets in and I still haven't gotten much out of her in the way of dialogue or backstory. I'm stumped.

Loved it when she laid down and explained things to Handmaiden about "the male plan".

proxima centauri
7 March 2005, 04:09 PM
Nope, never got anything out of her...

Yet another underdevelopped character.

Kordeth
7 March 2005, 04:56 PM
...The hell are you talking about? I got enough influence with Mara out of my first conversation with her to get her long, rather involved backstory, and it only took one more conversation to get enough to convince her to become a Jedi. It wasn'ty hard at all--try arguing with her.

Donovan Morningfire
13 March 2005, 03:44 AM
Finished KotOR II yesterday ...

I could almost forgive the chopped-up last quarter of the game, as it moved fairly quickly and was both fun and frantic.

But the ending after you defeat the end boss just left me saying "Is that it? Several lines of dialogue to wrap everything up?"

This has to be one of the most disappointing endings I've seen in a long time. Here's hoping either a fan-mod is completed to restore what the endings should have been, or Obsidian gets the okay from LucasArts to complete the game.

proxima centauri
13 March 2005, 09:14 PM
Or Bioware gets to do the next KOTOR... cause Obsidian was not up to it.

Rogue Janson
14 March 2005, 10:07 AM
TBH, though my two housemates have enjoyed it, I got bored with it very quickly. The only thing to hold my interest seemed to be the plot, and that was going far too slowly, so I've given up for now and am playing simcity 4 instead.

Master Dao Rin
14 March 2005, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Kordeth
...The hell are you talking about? I got enough influence with Mara out of my first conversation with her to get her long, rather involved backstory, and it only took one more conversation to get enough to convince her to become a Jedi. It wasn'ty hard at all--try arguing with her.

Nope, that didn't work either.

Maybe the influence thing is at work here. I've got lots of influence with Handmaiden and Visas - maybe this is why Mira is being closed mouth.

Master Dao Rin
14 March 2005, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Rogue Janson
TBH, though my two housemates have enjoyed it, I got bored with it very quickly. The only thing to hold my interest seemed to be the plot, and that was going far too slowly, so I've given up for now and am playing simcity 4 instead.

Another simmer, huh? :D

Personally, I could follow along. My only beef with this game is that they explain things rather poorly. Plus, having supporting characters around in this game was rather pointless.

Oh, and the influence system: while a good intent, didn't really see the point with this aspect either. I mean, all it boils down to is choosing responses, which is what you do anyway so what have a point system based around it?

:?

Not only that, but even still, I would love to know about their characters even in spite of me "being opposite" in alignment with them - why have them around if they're wallpaper?

Donovan Morningfire
16 March 2005, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Master Dao Rin

Nope, that didn't work either.

Maybe the influence thing is at work here. I've got lots of influence with Handmaiden and Visas - maybe this is why Mira is being closed mouth.
I think the trick with Mira is you have to ask the questions in the right order. And you have to do it over several conversations. I had no problem getting max influence w/ Mira shortly after she joined the crew. Checked my game's stats using the KSE program (link can be found under the Holowan Lab section of StarWarsKnights.com forums), and I've got 100 Influence w/ all three ladies. Guess maybe that's why Mira considers my Exile to be "too old" :(

Master Dao Rin
21 March 2005, 03:51 PM
Well, the order I can't figure out. <sigh>

I've only every had one instance of gaining influence with Mira - everything else is "let's talk about this later" response.

I think this is one of those things that got cut early - something tells me she was supposed to be involved in another side trek that never got realized.

Aldaron
23 March 2005, 12:42 AM
Wholly unimpressed with it. The graphics are exactly the same. Apart from the odd difference in movement during battles (the martial-arts moves look pretty cool), I had to look carefully to see which one I was playing.

I have thus-far been fairly unimpressed with the storyline. Everything just seems in-your-face obvious at present.

Thirdly, whilst on Nar Shadaa a bug has screwed my game royally, including my saved games. In order to continue playing, I will have to go all the way back to the beginning and start again (I was roughly 24th level, IIRC). I simply couldn't be bothered. I used the exact same save strategy as I've used in every other game I've ever played and this is the only time it's burned me.

Even my 8 year old has given up on it and gone back to KOTOR I, saying he became bored with the pointless repetition of KOTOR II (At one stage, you have to repeatedly go in and out of a cantina - not far, mind you - just to an alley next to it. You must do this in order to gain clues to solve a mystery and you HAVE to go at least three or four times. Each time, however, there is a full loading sequence every time you go into or leave the cantina.

I played the game for 26 hours and was stopped cold by a bug. That's 26 hours of my life I won't get back, unfortunately.

Don't waste your money. Get Half Life 2 or something...

Razgriz
11 April 2005, 11:23 AM
I supremely loved KOTOR II but I got to go back and play it again due to I never got to turn anyone a Jedi.

Other than the bad camera while fighting and the fact that I have dumb NPCs who run through a minefield I had fun with the game.

I swear the best way to defeat enemies is Stasis... you tell everyone to freeze then you kill 'em... it worked in the first one it works in this one... they sort of shortened it in this one... but that's okay.

The only thing that made me mad is the loading times... for the next one they seriously need to shorten them. I was able to get up and make a sandwich when they were on.

I thought I hit a bug... but I was merely stumped. I was on Darth Nilhilus's ship, and I couldn't figure out how to make the 4th bomb... wierded me out.

proxima centauri
12 April 2005, 11:05 AM
My technique was to use the group force push... 2-3 times in a room full of dark jedis... killed them all without a finch. :)

Malkarris
12 April 2005, 02:26 PM
Dono, you asked about a fan-mod?

Your prayers have been answered. (http://magestrix.com/K2End/about.html) And it's a lot more than just the end. They're putting in everything they can, including the HK factory. They're still working on it, but you can get a link to sound clips that were in the software, but not actually in the game. Contains spoilers of course. The clips for the HK droids are funny, in a twisted way. Then again, this is HK-47 and company we're talking about.

Donovan Morningfire
13 April 2005, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Malkarris
Dono, you asked about a fan-mod?

Your prayers have been answered. (http://magestrix.com/K2End/about.html) And it's a lot more than just the end. They're putting in everything they can, including the HK factory. They're still working on it, but you can get a link to sound clips that were in the software, but not actually in the game. Contains spoilers of course. The clips for the HK droids are funny, in a twisted way. Then again, this is HK-47 and company we're talking about.
LOL, I'd forgotten about this thread.

As for that site, I posted it in a similar thread up in the d20 forum about a week ago. But thanks anyways :D

Krad-edis
13 November 2005, 05:00 AM
My only complaint was that Visas didn't look more like Kelly Hu. ;)

Visas
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5e/Visas_marr.jpeg

Kelly Hu
http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/86/25/22m.jpg

Maybe they'll get that right next time.

GM Kriim
3 December 2007, 07:50 AM
The Light Side ending IS a little confusing/anti-climactic, but the dark side ending, I've heard, is quite satisfying. With the light side ending, one ends up going, "What, that's it? Where's the rest of it?" Also, a good deal of content was cut, but Team Gizka is working on the KotOR II Restoration Project, to restore such pivotal points as the HK-50 factory on Telos. The influence system takes some getting used to, and, from a video gamer's perspective, is a major flaw, but I think it adds a strong sense of realism, as you actually have to consider the character's personality, and account for it before acting. A lot of people I know disliked the game, and said that it "absolutely sucked compared to KotOR I", but I think there is a lot more hype than truth in that statement. KotOR II has characters with greater depth, and an overall darker, more twisted story.

Starcloud
3 December 2007, 09:39 AM
Just because the story is darker and more twisted doesn't make it a better game.

What made it a better game was that there was more depth to the characters.

What made it a complete mess in comparison to the original was the botched ending. Once you land on Dantooine to meet with the masters, that's when you get put onto railroad tracks and you no longer have any options at all. At least with the original, it was obvious that the endgame started when you travelled to the unknown planet. That's not so clear with KotOR 2.

Further, it was painfully obvious that the ending was incomplete. When Mira wakes up, that whole sequence showed that each of the characters you're travelling with were supposed to have their own, or joint, cutscenes/adventure sequences, and the lack thereof was more than a little disappointing.

Ubiqtorate
3 December 2007, 11:57 AM
In what way was the influence system a major flaw from a video gamer's perspective? I'm not a hard-core gamer, but the influence system was one of my favorite aspects of the game.

GM Kriim
3 December 2007, 11:57 AM
Perhaps I misphrased my last sentence. What I meant was, the story went beyond the simple main story, with stories-within-stories, true histories to most of the characters (anyone who tries to call the character stories in KOTOR I histories needs to learn the difference between an actual, coherent history, and a string of semi-connected anecdotes), and I have always like games with the sort of dark, despairing, doomed atmosphere of KOTOR II. The railroad track thing you described is indeed a large flaw, and I was never much of a fan of it. Personally, I think that the Ravager should have been a little like the Leviathan, in that even after completing it, you can still go back to other planets, perhaps just not Telos (you couldn't go back to Dantooine after the Leviathan level in KOTOR I, and Telos is to KOTOR II what Dantooine was to KOTOR I). The character histories in KOTOR I were little more than tangentially related sidequests, while, in KOTOR II, they have a greater tendency towards truly aiding the character in the main story, and providing extra information that could be helpful. Also, there is evidence, dormant files, in fact, of cut content regarding the fate of your comrades, which, I believe, Team Gizka is also working on.

GM Kriim
3 December 2007, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Ubiqtorate
In what way was the influence system a major flaw from a video gamer's perspective? I'm not a hard-core gamer, but the influence system was one of my favorite aspects of the game.
Well, some of my friends who are hard-core gamers weren't huge fans of it, even going so far as to say that it ruined the game, and I admit I wasn't exactly thrilled about it when I discovered that KOTOR I hadn't had one. If that doesn't make too much sense, it is because I ended up, through a bizarre series of circumstances, playing KOTOR II before playing or even looking for data about KOTOR I (oh, I knew it existed, of course). I did, of course, get used to the influence system (when I finally figured it out).

Starcloud
3 December 2007, 04:30 PM
The influence system was a pretty nice step forward towards having non-player characters react "realistically" to the main character's actions.

I can understand that the console gamer crowd might not like this, since console games, for the most part, have very linear gameplay and are designed to have that linear gameplay.

It's nigh impossible, with this Influence system, to have everyone like you to the same degree. Someone's always going to dislike you. The flaw with the influence system as designed, however, is that an extremely negative influence offers almost identical responses as an extremely positive influence.

Also, try putting Atton and the Handmaiden in the same party when Atton reveals what he used to do... the Handmaiden doesn't react at all, but you'd think that she'd have something to say.

It would have been interesting if NPCs reacted with each other, gaining and losing influence depending on what happened while they were adventuring alongside the main character.

GM Kriim
3 December 2007, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by Starcloud
I can understand that the console gamer crowd might not like this, since console games, for the most part, have very linear gameplay and are designed to have that linear gameplay.

Exactly what I mean. My friends are major console gamers, though I am primarily PC. The frustration was that, in order to uncover ALL the backstory of ALL the characters in the same play-through, you had to be incredibly two-faced. This did not exceptionally concern me, as I was able to acquire all the Jedi characters and acheive Light Side Mastery (though I had trouble maintaining it) simply by being myself. I do so wish that HK's backstory did not have an influence requirement, but that's mainly because I basically WORSHIP HK-47.

Admiral Zaarin
4 December 2007, 10:21 AM
It would have been interesting if NPCs reacted with each other, gaining and losing influence depending on what happened while they were adventuring alongside the main character.
That would have been interesting. I can see it now...

Atton: Yeah, I was a Jedi killer.

Handmaiden: A WHAT?!

Atton: Um, what I mean was...

Handmaiden: You're gonna pay for all the Jedi you've killed...

[scene goes black]

Atton: [bloody and bruised] That...may have been...a mistake... [passes out]

:D

Ubiqtorate
4 December 2007, 03:55 PM
A friend of mine is a pretty serious gamer. He liked the influence system well enough, but I definitely see what you mean about linear gameplay. He pretty much just focused on the goal and played right on through - got through the game pretty quickly, too. I play a lot differently, though. I play for the story, and I love meandering through all of the different side quests and back stories. He walked in once while I was playing, and happened to see a cutscene where Visas and the Handmaiden were basically arguing over the Exile, and Mira came in and pretty much said, "Whatever - he's mine anyway." "Hey, wait a minute!" my friend said. "I never got that!" I think he was just jealous that my style of gameplay led to three hot Jedi chicks fighting over me, and his didn't. Too bad for him, I guess.

GM Kriim
4 December 2007, 07:29 PM
See, you could EASILY get everyone's backstory in number 1 no matter WHAT your alignment was. All you really needed was some repair skill for HK, and you were set. In KOTOR II, though, what you said and did actually counted, which frustrates the anal-retentive console gamer that wants to get and do EVERYTHING in the same play-through.

Admiral Zaarin
5 December 2007, 08:04 AM
Since I always play lightside, Kreia and HK-47 always hate me. :rolleyes: Then again, Kreia seems to hate you no matter what...the one time I played Dark Side, she still hated me. :P

Master Dao Rin
6 December 2007, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by Ubiqtorate
"I never got that!" I think he was just jealous that my style of gameplay led to three hot Jedi chicks fighting over me, and his didn't. Too bad for him, I guess.

Yea, me too Ubi (re: game-play style).

Actually, I've only ever got this cut-scene once, and I can't for the life of me duplicate it.

Do you have to be on the Dark Side end of things to have this happen?

:?

Ubiqtorate
6 December 2007, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by Master Dao Rin


Do you have to be on the Dark Side end of things to have this happen?

No, I don't think so. I was pretty light-side. I think I just had very high influence with all three of them.

Starcloud
6 December 2007, 09:27 AM
For that particular cutscene to happen, you need two conditions.

First, your influence with Visas has to be more than 10 points higher than your influence with the Handmaiden. That triggers the Handmaiden's jealousy.

Second, you have to have Mira in the party.

Basically, the first planet you visit after Telos has to be Nar Shadda, or the conditions for the cutscene won't be timed properly.

Admiral Zaarin
6 December 2007, 09:29 AM
That would be why I've never had the cutscene. Handmaiden is always my favorite character, and Nar Shaddaa tends to be my last planet since it's pretty tough...

Master Dao Rin
6 December 2007, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Starcloud
Basically, the first planet you visit after Telos has to be Nar Shadda, or the conditions for the cutscene won't be timed properly.

Ah - that makes sense now. I always go for my lightsaber crystal first ... hmmm ...

Starcloud
6 December 2007, 01:40 PM
Yeah, going for the lightsaber crystal means you don't get to see that cutscene.

Reason being, you need Mira in the party, but Visas Marr joins up on the first planet you visit after getting the "Sion and Visas talk about the Exile" cutscene.

That makes visiting Nar Shadda first an absolute must if you want to see Visas, Handmaiden, and Mira in that "catfight" cutscene.

You can try to hold down your light side/dark side points by doing the bare minimum necessary, pick up the lightsaber crystal, then go to Nar Shadda to pick up Mira... that might work, but it's not easy since there's a lot of opportunities to get light side/dark side points.

Jedi Master Jadden Korr
10 January 2008, 03:15 AM
LOVED it, cant wait for KotoR III to come out.

boccelounge
10 January 2008, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Jedi Master Jadden Korr
LOVED it, cant wait for KotoR III to come out.

Me too, me too... I would love a new one with a wide open universe to roam around in, akin to the Elder Scrolls games (Arena, Morrowind, Oblivion). Of course, my life outside video games would come to a crashing halt for a few months... but oh man, would it be worth it...

Unfortunately, it looks like they're going with more of a MMO route... :(

Starcloud
10 January 2008, 08:46 AM
There's TWO "unannounced" products in the works at Bioware. One is, or may be (we're still not entirely sure) an MMORPG, being developed at Bioware's Austin studio. The other is a "next generation" title being worked on at Bioware's main studio.

Either of which can be the "next generation interactive entertainment product" talked about in the LucasArts/Bioware partnership press release, and we still don't know for a fact that it has anything to do at all with Star Wars.

Donovan Morningfire
14 January 2008, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by Jedi Master Jadden Korr
LOVED it, cant wait for KotoR III to come out.
Well, you may have a very long wait. So far there's been little to no news. And in the event the Kotor Saga Ed sourcebook's release was to be tied into KOTOR3 (as has been speculated on several forums), then I'd imagine we'd have at least heard something that KOTOR3 was coming.

And after the fan backlash that occured with KOTOR2's lackluster conclusion, maybe LucasArts decided to leave well enough alone and not do a third game.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
2 February 2008, 01:20 AM
Coming out with a Saga Ed Kotor book would be half pointless wouldn't you think? Save for expanding on the 4000yr BBY as it's own new and fresh era... The characters have all been statted at one point or another via freebie web enhancements and the like, let alone many fan takes on the subject.

Unless they're covering the grounds that of which had been covered and expanded on by the Comic line for that era. That would only prove to be fresh material to me as i've not read the kotor comic line.

Theres only 2 other reasons I can think of...

1. LucasArts being known for releasing big and going big in bundling their promotion release events, perhaps theres actually a totally hushed development team working on Kotor3 (in whichever standalone or MMORPG variant) that'll debut on the day with the book. Circumstance being the embarrassment from mucking up Kotor2 in their timetable haste. This would be something of a first since the dawn of time, developers and game companies favor to announce to the press about their upcoming titles and give updates in measured quantity of their progress to further fuel hype before the game's release.

1b. It could entirely be possible that a Bio-ware / Lucasarts deal could be intended for a non-sw rpg game. Star Wars might be one of the most popular venues for Lucasfilm, but it certainly isn't the companies' only venue. Indiana Jones comes to mind, with the upcoming Indy 4 film.

2. A Kotor book could very well be in common with the Force Unleashed sourcebook as WOTC's release of new rpg stomping grounds not already previously covered by WEG in some form or fashion. Wotc's only got a few supplement & sourcebooks with that claim, namely being Secrets of Naboo, the New Jedi Order, and the inclusion of Ep1, Ep2, and Ep3 material in the OCR, RCR, and SECR core rule books. With the exception of those, and the upcoming FO and Kotor books, all the material in the rest of previous wotc books is mostly a condensed re-hashing of WEG's 30+ extensive titles.

Personally, i'll keep hope its a game title to go with the book ;)

Admiral Zaarin
2 February 2008, 09:26 AM
And after the fan backlash that occured with KOTOR2's lackluster conclusion, maybe LucasArts decided to leave well enough alone and not do a third game.
It would be a poor judgment on LucasArts's part. I think most fans (myself including) would still be willing to give any game with the name "Knights of the Old Republic" on it a shot, despite my incredible disappointment with TSL. With Bioware back at the helm, any hesitency I might otherwise have had would be completely swept away.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
2 February 2008, 09:52 AM
Well, all we have is this to go on:

1.) LucasArts & Bioware bare joint site (http://www.lucasartsbioware.com/)
2.) Bioware News discussion forum thread (http://forums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?forum=41&topic=595021)
3.) "For Immediate Release" announcement dated Oct 30th 2007 (http://www.bioware.com/bioware_info/press_releases/2007_10_30_bioware_lucasarts/)

I haven't read any of the thread discussion in point #2, so i'm clueless as what their speculations may be.

Admiral Zaarin
2 February 2008, 02:05 PM
Can't wait to find out about it. As long as it's not an MMO, anything BioWare puts out in conjunction with LucasArts has to be good. :) Of course, KotOR3 would be best-case scenario, but I'll be happy with just about anything. ;)

IzVenjari
2 February 2008, 03:47 PM
Another link to a forum discussion to get everybody wondering: LucasArts discussion forum (http://forums.lucasarts.com/thread.jspa?threadID=94142&start=3885)