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Wedge in Red2
4 February 2005, 06:06 AM
Hi folks,

I'm just wondering if anyone has any information on when the Mon Calamari joined the Rebellion? I've had a look on StarWars.com, but there's not much info there (except to say they did join the Rebellion).

I just want to know things like how they managed to produce starships (I mean, if the Empire knew the Rebels were flying Mon Cal starships, surely they'd send a fellet of Star Destroyers to Mon Cal and destroy the shipyarsds, right?).

I'm looking at running an adventure based around this. Any info is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Jon

Rostek
4 February 2005, 06:26 AM
I would expect they showed some Rebel leanings before Palpy decided to be done with them and enslave the planet. After they rebelled against the occupation- the shipyards actively produced vessels for the Rebs. I guess the Empire just considered it more trouble than it was worth- I know if I had a planet with lots of shipyards, I'd use quite a lot of my reasources protecting it.

kaeroth
4 February 2005, 07:28 AM
i had thought that the majority of the rebel fleet wasn't Mon Cal ships they had made for that purpose, but Mon Cal starliners and cruise ships that had been refitted for battle duty. i think it was somehting like, when the Empire officially enslaved the planet, that was the last straw and through some nifty coordination all the Mon Cal ships and crew defected, called the secret Rebel hotline and said, "Hello, general Dodonna? This is Ackbar, and i have a fleet i'd like to give to you. Now, i was thinking Admiral for my new rank. How's that sound to you?"
in the novelization of RotJ, i think there's some meniton of that as the fleet gathers near sullust. or somewhere. it's been a while since i read that. some great dialogue in there; better than the movie (which i guess isn't a great surprise).

Rogue Janson
4 February 2005, 08:58 AM
I've always believed that the Mon Cal didn't join the Rebellion until after the Battle of Hoth, but I don't remember where I saw that stated.

The fact that there are no Mon Cal in ESB, while they are dominant in the Rebel fleet in RotJ supports this view though.

I would put the sequence of events something like this. The Mon Cal are enslaved by the Empire before ANH, and resistance steadily gathers. Admiral Ackbar is rescued by the Alliance from Tarkin before ANH and returns to his planet, or perhaps works with the Alliance for some time. Some time before ESB the Mon Cal kick out the Empire (perhaps with some Alliance support). They are protected from immediate retaliation by the Empire's preoccupation with hunting down the Rebel Alliance and their remote location. The fleet of Mon Calamari cruiser liners are rapidly converted to warships and shortly after ESB, the Mon Cal officially join the Alliance.

With a powerful fleet defending Mon Calamari and more planets (eg. Sullust) declaring open rebellion, the Empire is unable to attack and crush the Mon Cal. The fleet of large capital ships also forms a new, mobile, base for the Alliance, protecting them from a defeat like that at Hoth.

Some of that's speculation and some I don't remember sources for, but that's my idea of what happened.

PneumaZ
4 February 2005, 10:13 AM
That sounds pretty good as a theory. The Mon Cal ships, in fact most of the ships in the Rebel Fleet were converted cargo and transport liners, that were capital in size but had plenty of empty spaces for weapon batteries to be added and bigger shield generators.

But you're right, the Mon Cal's dont show up till after the Cloud City Incident with Luke. It tracks that Mon Cal in general was one of the slaved races and they just escaped and because they didnt have an immediate war weapons the empire said 'screw it'. We also have to keep in mind that a good bit of time takes place between ESB and RotJ...isnt like a year or two? So in thatc ase that could give the Mon Cals plenty of time to defect and convert their fleet. Which may be why the Alliance finally felt they had enough muscle to attack the empire head on.

Rogue Janson
4 February 2005, 10:30 AM
Actually it's only a year between ESB and ANH (which is why I suggested the Mon Cal started converting their ships before officially joining the Alliance). However a lot happens in this year, with the Alliance going from on the run to being powerful enough for planets to openly defect.

PneumaZ
4 February 2005, 11:59 AM
You sure about that? I was mentioning time span between ESB and RotJ but, i distinctly remember there being a 3 yer gap between one of the films, at least i thought so. i could be crazy.

Vanger Chevane
4 February 2005, 01:27 PM
Rogue Janson's idea of ships being converted prior to their appearance makes perfect sense.

If you're going to rebel & kick the Empire offworld, you need to have defenses ready to emplace as soon as that happens so that someone doesn't crush your revolution by parking a Star Destroyer or 3 in orbit.

Initially, this fleet would consist of hasty modifications to existing ships which gives you more time to properly refit a starliner into a battlecruiser. Once the refitted cruisers are fully crewed & commissioned, then and only then can you start building warships from keel-up.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that anumber of the Alliance's Assault Frigates were MC Surplus, or at least the reliably-tested modification readouts were.

Rogue Janson
4 February 2005, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by PneumaZ
You sure about that? I was mentioning time span between ESB and RotJ but, i distinctly remember there being a 3 yer gap between one of the films, at least i thought so. i could be crazy.
3 Years between ANH and ESB, one between ESB and RotJ. I have no idea how or why those gaps were decided on.

CaamasiJedi49
4 February 2005, 02:33 PM
It was my understanding that Mon Cal joined around ESB, but was independent a year or two before ANH. The huge time difference was because Mon Cal was reluctant to be assosiated with the rebellion directly. They had just become independent and couldn't risk being labeled a rebel supporter and not be able to defend itself. But I could be wrong.

Caamasi Jedi49:plokoon:

Rostek
4 February 2005, 02:44 PM
Some deleted footage from ESB shows some Mon Cals at Hoth... these may just be isolated individuals- but I know Ackbar was part of the Rebellion since around Yavin (Shantipole/Tarkin Connection). The Rebellion Sourcebook from WEG has more info on this, I think... if anyone wants to check.

guaeko
4 February 2005, 02:47 PM
Wasn't it 6 months between ESB and ROTJ? I thought that when Han got pulled out of the carbonite, that they said that it was six months in carbonite that caused him to get the blindness.

I'm tired, and haven't seen the movies in a while, so forgive me if I'm an idiot.

Rogue Janson
4 February 2005, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Rostek
Some deleted footage from ESB shows some Mon Cals at Hoth...
Seriously? I've never heard of that footage or anything like that.


originally posted by guaeko
Wasn't it 6 months between ESB and ROTJ? I thought that when Han got pulled out of the carbonite, that they said that it was six months in carbonite that caused him to get the blindness.
Nothing like that's mentioned in the film, but I think you're right it was less than a year. The time just comes out as a year on timelines.

Ronin
4 February 2005, 03:08 PM
From what I remember Mon Cal was under the Empire's thumb (presumably for siding with the CIS during the Clone Wars) but eventually they rose up and threw off their shackles (before or after which they joined the Rebellion).
Once they were recognized as a Rebel-World, as far as I know they became pretty much a rebel safe world: too many rebels ships stationed there for the Empire to take it, and it's too remote. (thinking about it, neither of those arguements would really stop the Empire, but that's what I remember from sources I've read).

An adventure where the Rebel PCs go to Mon Cal to meet with representatives of the Mon Cal and (no doubt reluctant) Quarren, while the planet's still under the Empire, and the PCs help to organise the uprising would be great.

As for the film timeline, I always thought it was a three year and a one year gap.

Rostek
4 February 2005, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Rogue Janson
Seriously? I've never heard of that footage or anything like that.
It may be apocraphal (just searched through my stuff)- but photos of Mon Cals in Hoth garb at the set exist (and have made it into RPG stuff). I believe reading some stuff was filmed with them (though I'm not as sure as I was an hour ago- just checked, can't find it, but that means little ;)), but was discarded since they already had the necessary Hoth stuff.

CaamasiJedi49
5 February 2005, 05:55 AM
Actually Ronin, Mon Cal was a loyal Republic world which put down a CIS rebellion by the Quarrens, but their have been exceptions by certain individuals(the Mon Cal who lead the attack against Kamino to name one). But you do have a point about Mon Cal being secluded. That coupled with the problem of getting the Mon Cal shipyards to be able to build things normally as the rest of the galaxy did, made it a nightmare to maintain a fleet in the area(as said in G&tOR). I do know for sure that Mon Cal didn't join the rebellion until just before ESB(its in some comic where Ackbar is going to get Mon Cal to join the rebellion).

Caamasi Jedi49:plokoon:

Ronin
5 February 2005, 07:08 AM
Caamasi'J cheers for the correction :)
I only know a little of what happens in the CW cartoon...and I have the comics.
Can't wait for the DVD to come out...

kaeroth
5 February 2005, 03:37 PM
Can't wait for the DVD to come out...

i second that, ronin. i missed 'em all without cable.
now, for some reason, i thought the time period 'tween ESB and RotJ was closer to two years. didn't all the events and stuff in Shadows of the Empire take longer than just a year? although at the same time i think i remember, in the novelization of RotJ, Han reflecting on being frozen on carbonite and there was something about "trying to take a breath for six months" or something like that. maybe it wasn't six months, though. i dunno.
and i think the dearth of Mon Cals and aliens of any flavor on Hoth was probably due more to costuming problems (latex and foam rubber and the really really cold might not mix well) than that they weren't there.
and when was the battle of Tanaab? Lando mentions it in RotJ, and if he was involved in it, and it was in fact and rebellion/Empire conflict, then that's another thing to wedge into the period between ESB and RotJ, along with all the stuff he was doing trying to track down Fett and Han. or was that something that Lando did long before he won Cloud City and settled down to become legitimate?
oh, hey. I just found the most in-depth and over-researched timeline site (for SW) that i think may have ever existed. find it here (http://www.starwarz.com/timeline/)

now i have to go and read it some more.

Rogue Janson
6 February 2005, 03:37 AM
The Battle of Tanaab, iirc, was between the peaceful, agricultural planet of Tanaab and some pirate, whom Lando defeated by catching them with a giant space net.
Took place some time before Lando became baron-administrator of Cloud City.

Ronin
6 February 2005, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by kaeroth

oh, hey. I just found the most in-depth and over-researched timeline site (for SW) that i think may have ever existed. find it here (http://www.starwarz.com/timeline/)

now i have to go and read it some more.

Yeah, that Timeline is fantastic!!!
I've consulted it at least once for almost every adventure I've ever written. Priceless (and free!;) )

guaeko
6 February 2005, 07:18 AM
The guy who wrote that timeline, Nathan, lives in my town and is one of the leaders of the Evansville Jedi Council. He also just wrote a Tales comic. Not sure which issue.

MikeLynch
18 March 2005, 10:17 AM
Nathan's timeline is pure gold. I refer to it constantly, and have integrated it into my SWRPG timeline. I've even contributed to it on occasion -- my name's somwhere in that Acknowledgements list.


I do know for sure that Mon Cal didn't join the rebellion until just before ESB(its in some comic where Ackbar is going to get Mon Cal to join the rebellion).
Correct, and this is corroborated by Nathan's timeline, though IIRC he's got it close to a year before Hoth -- not quite "just before," but definitely not long before, in war terms.


now, for some reason, i thought the time period 'tween ESB and RotJ was closer to two years. didn't all the events and stuff in Shadows of the Empire take longer than just a year?
Nope. The benchmarks are:
Battle of Hoth: 3.3 years after the events of ANH
ROTJ: 4 years after the events of ANH

So all that in-between stuff took place in about 6.6 SW months (~231 days according to the 35-day SW month, unless my math is bad -- and I probably left out a Fete Week or two). Still a lot to cram in, but hey, those Rebels were busy little beavers back then.

gmjabreson
16 June 2006, 10:50 AM
the mon cal joined the alliance before Yavin. The reason the Empire didn't do anything to stop them from doing so, was the chaos caused by the loss of the Death Star. Ackbar was Tarkin's aid before he was rescued by the Alliance in an attempt to kill Tarkin. I'm sure it took time to get the Leaders to agree to sign up. Plus the Mon Cals had some capital ships to defend the shipyards when the Empire did show up in force, they left with tails between thier legs from the "beat down" they got by the Mon Cal.

The rest of the time between Yavin and Hoth, was spent upgrading and arming the Mon Cal Cruisers to warships and building more.