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PneumaZ
21 April 2005, 01:21 PM
On my blog a few days ago I mentioned how I found it odd that fans of shows (bad term but for lac of a better term 'fanboys/girls') and movies are a bit of an oxymoron. They find something, they love it and they want more of it...and by and large when the new material is released they are disappointed, hack it apart or are generally disdainful of this next wave. Its a bit of a quandry...and in the blog i used Star Wars as an example. I also site i love/like all of the movies and most things Star Wars, which led me to a startling discovery. A lot of people either like the classic series or the prequels...very few fall in the middle lik myself. I thought that was peculiar.

So i thought where better to gauge people's thoughts on classic or prequel than true blue Star Wars fans. So which is your favorite...one the other or both?

Sithspawn
21 April 2005, 02:19 PM
Both

And I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm a fan of Jar Jar Binks and the Ewoks.

I probably do enjoy the OT more, but I certainly don't dismiss the new films.

The problem arises when a series hits a high that is difficult to top. Basically Star Wars has become a victim of it's own success. It's been a long time since A New Hope was released, and for me personally it has not been topped by any movie since, Star Wars or otherwise. That doesn't mean I'm going to complain about every movie I see (although some people may say that I do). But it is because so many people class the OT as being that damn good that GL has come under critisism for messing about with them. But how many bands get written off because their latest album wasn't as good as their last. An athlete cannot break the world record every time they compete. Is it fair critisism? Probably not, but trying to convince people that you cannot beat the best is usually a losing argument.

Master Dao Rin
21 April 2005, 02:53 PM
I love the whole saga. Even The Phantom Menace; it was a great intro to the story, despite the lack of directing skills ( which has as it were, unlike the thing people stress about when talking about Ep. 1, been that way from the very beginning ).

If you don't like camp, what are you doing here watching this type of movie? That's what I always say.

It's part of Star Wars' charm. I'm proud to wear my Star Wars Geek badge.

Nova Spice
21 April 2005, 04:49 PM
I like both. The only thing that's lacking is a cynic in the Prequels. Han was the OT cynic and was the source of much of the humor in the originals. Obi-Wan somewhat fills this role in the Prequels, though I feel that if Lucas had simply begun Obi-Wan's wisecracks more in The Phantom Meance, instead of really gearing 'em up in Attack of the Clones, the Prequels would have what they currently lack.

P.S. Some of Obi-Wan's dialogue in Episode III is going to be very amusing.

Grimace
21 April 2005, 05:17 PM
I'm an Original Trilogy fan. The prequels don't come close, in my book.

I could talk at length about my thoughts on both, and why I feel how I do, but I'd rather not clog up this thread with that, so if people wish to know more, they can feel free to PM me.

wolverine
21 April 2005, 10:23 PM
I am a middler. I loved the classics, especially ESB, but am not one of those rabid prequil haters. Yea, jar jar could have been placed out, but i don't hate a series of films just cause of one creatre/person.

Dr_Worm
21 April 2005, 10:42 PM
[stands up, and speaks awkwardly]

Hi...my name is Gabriel, and [gulp] I like Jar-Jar Binks.

[the assembled throng repeats]
Hi Gabriel.

Okay...so I hate the ewoks, but I really like Jar-Jar. I also love the Prequil. I think it is given short shrift, and I agree that Lucas' directing is apalling, but it is still great cinema.

Jedi Cahlwyn
22 April 2005, 03:24 AM
Well, I grew up with the OT and love them still. Star Wars is my favorite... hobby? I like all things Star Wars. Movies, books, comics, games, all are great.

That said I think I prefer the PT movies but OT novels (well New Republic - NJO). If I had to choose I would say The Phantom Menace is my favorite of the five movies. I see what George was trying to do with it. Set the stage, politics, diplomacy, etc. There are things I dislike (Jar Jar, most of Tatooine, midichlorians only because they weren't expanded on) and things I really like (Jedi, special effects, Jedi, duels, Gungans as a species, Padme, Jedi, etc). :)

I try to take everything as it is and I am not very critical. I like about 90% of the Star Wars universe about equally. My favorites are Prequel movies, young adult novels (something about Young Jedi Knights and Jedi Apprentice series that just do it for me... not sure why), and X-wing novels.

PneumaZ
22 April 2005, 05:53 AM
Hmmm, that's very interesting..a lot more people in the midway...this makes me feel much more at home. And i agree with a lot of things already stated. Lucas is a great idea-man, though i feel he might need a filter to distill his vision into a more 'public friendly' film. That being said, I've always prided myself on the little inside things they put in and subtle nuainces (not subtle for SW fans) about how the movies progress.

I always viewed the OT as people fighting the evil empire literally, there was clear cut evil...but in the PT it's many subtle shades of grey...and then more grey that foul up peopl'es vision and it becomes confusing. Yeah I'm not a fan of Jar Jar (but i like gungans) and Yeah anakin as a kid was odd (but he could pilot well) but overall I like the mirrors i see in the PT and the OT and I can;t wait for that one line in Ep3 "You were the chosen ONE!!!" Then all hell breaks loose. I think it will give people great perspective. -Sorry...rant flag off.

Corr Terek
22 April 2005, 06:24 AM
I've been a fan of all the movies and pretty much every bit of EU I came across. I guess you could call me a geek, but I prefer to think of myself as tolerant. Let GL run his stuff the way he wants to, and I won't complain. Seems fair to me.

kaeroth
22 April 2005, 07:32 AM
i like 'em both, but i have more problems with the PT. with the PT i watch them now for the parts i like (mostly jedi doin' jedi stuff) and cringe through the parts i don't (jar jar, anakin talking, that weird S&M outfit padme wears while she's saying "we can't be in love. but wait, aren't i wearing a gimp suit that just needs a ball gag and some leather wrist straps? maybe i'm naughty and need a spanking."). with the OT it's the other way around. i love it all except for a few parts (mostly ewoks).
people that love a thing are the best to criticize it. it means that they understand it, the see what it was trying to do, and they hope for the best, regret the worst, and can talk about how they see it might have been closer to the target they think it was shooting for (or wanted it to be shooting for). i *love* star wars. all of it. but i can still be critical. does anyone ever think, when their parents grounded them or yelled at them, that they didn't love them? that their anger came fomr their lack of wanting them to have done better? hmmm. not that i'm star wars' parent (sadly; i could handle being as godawful rich as GL, though i'd want to keep my neck), but you know what i mean. right?

Rostek
22 April 2005, 07:52 AM
I'm a big OT fan- but I also enjoy (for the most part) the Prequel stuff as well.
While I cringe whenever "Ani" is on the screen with Padme (no chemistry + crappy dialogue= frustratingly bad) in AotC, that is my only major, specific, complaint (as wide ranging as that is).
Even TPM, with it's heavy handed directing and differant "feel" from the OT I can say I mostly enjoyed (even if it can't match up with any of the OT, I find it better in substance if not in style, than AotC).
JarJar? IMO it would have been better to stick with the initial plan to use a French comidian, but he wasn't that annoying to me.
Ewoks? Should have been Wookiees- but midgets are cheaper than NBA centers, after all- and it adds a sense of David v. Goliath to the final ground battle.
GL is a brilliant creator and crappy director, but I'm happy with the movies so far (and hope Episode III will be the crown jewel of it all).

johnnyputrid
22 April 2005, 08:23 AM
Both. I've always been more into the visual, muscial and audio parts of Star Wars, so some occassionaly bad acting or lackluster directing doesn't bother me a bit. I also grew up watching re-runs of the old black and white Saturday matinee serials, like Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon, so I "get" where GL is coming from. Growing up watching a lot of Kung Fu Theater helped too. You learn to tolerate less-than-stellar acting and still enjoy the films.

For me, the OT has the whole "original recipe" thing going on, but I also enjoy the PT's new "extra-crispy, now with mega-spice" style. Visually, the new films are total eye-candy, with all of the new locations, CG characters and amazing fight sequences. And on the plus side, Episode III looks to be the creme of the crop, combining both visual coolness and good (but not great) acting.

The most important thing is to just let yourself go and try to enjoy the movies as you watch them. If you try to compare the two trilogies, you'll only end up raining on your own parade.

Darth Fierce
22 April 2005, 10:35 AM
The only Star Wars film that I could come close to saying I don't like is "The Phantom Menace." And it wasn't because of Jar-Jar, mind you, it was mainly due to trying to apply a scientific cause to the Force. I totally ignore any reference to midichlorians.

Otherwise, I've thoroughly enjoyed the saga. :)

Darth Fierce :vader:

Wesly Senesca
22 April 2005, 11:37 AM
I personally don't see any problems with the movies. That's right, I believe they are fine the way they currently are--all of 'em. Everything has its place, and everything has to start somewhere. The first movie showcased Anakin's childhood, so naturally it would have a slightly naive, child-like feel to it. Also, it displayed the galaxy in a state of relative peace where things are clean and there's no Empire breathing down one's back. In the second one, the movie focused on Anakin in his teens. He has to juggle adhering to the Jedi code and his own personal feelings (not to mention puberty). Of course the acting coming from the two lovebirds will be somewhat awkard because their situation is awkard. C'mon, what part of life is more awkard than the teenage years? Hell, after going through them, I wouldn'twant to do it again. Anakin had no experience in love and Padme was focused on politics, so neither of them was thinking with the proper mindset. The movie also dealt with the how the Clone Wars began. It would have been silly and pointless to begin the war earlier without properly setting it up. In the third movie, well, I don't feel like making that spoiler thingy.

When I hear people moaning and complaining about the prequels, I get angry because I don't think they know what they're complaining about. If its because of the whole "dark side rules" thing, then maybe people are complaining about the lack of Vader. If that's the case, then these people have no patience. Good villians take time, and Vader is a damn good villian. By complaining about Anakin as a child and as an awkard teen, people are (to me) being impatient and greedy. Star Wars is an epic tale. An epic tale takes time and slowly builds up to its climax. I enjoy the entire run of the movies. I don't care what people say about the prequels. Lackluster, shoddy, poor acting / scripting--none of that has any grounds. Hell, I take comfort in the fact that most people who complain about the prequels would probably do worse than they say it already is. Just let it be. Its Lucas's story, not ours. Be glad that its there.

If I'm ranting, then disregard this. But, hopelfully, it makes sense to someone, somewhere.

Rostek
22 April 2005, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Darth Fierce
The only Star Wars film that I could come close to saying I don't like is "The Phantom Menace." And it wasn't because of Jar-Jar, mind you, it was mainly due to trying to apply a scientific cause to the Force. I totally ignore any reference to midichlorians.

Otherwise, I've thoroughly enjoyed the saga. :)

Darth Fierce :vader:
Lol, I forgot about those midichlorians (I must have done a very good job at playing denial)- yes, the midichlorians could have been either better explained (as in "they concentrate around people with a great force ability", which would have been my preferance instead of Qui-Gon's "birds and bees" story to Anakin) or done away with entirely.
It still didn't really damage my feelings toward the movie itself- just it's creator.

PneumaZ
22 April 2005, 12:37 PM
With the midichlorian thing...it really didnt bother me nor did it help. A pal of mine was mad because he felt jedi were like monks and their faith (powers) grew strong because of their faith and all were able to get it. I was in the other camp, that the force was way more random and that just because you had the link didnt mean you became a jedi.

I just rationalized it with...yeah we all have midicholrians and some have higher counts of 'midi' in them than others, but in the end its up to the person to harness that power and to learn to control it. Someone with a low count could still potentially become a jedi if they learned to feel the force...and i believe the count would rise or they would over come that stigma.

Sort of like the kid who is born into a poor family and a child born into a rich family. The poor kid goes to the public library with the old beat up books and works and learns and studies and becomes...i dunno, in this case a scientist. He had the drive to become that thing and he used what he had in order to do it. Rather than some rich kids have whole personal libraries and tutors to teach them exactly the same thing but they dont use that resource and it is squandered. In the end the rich kid is not as smart, or successful (in this example) than the one who had nothing but built on what he could get. Midi's are the same way in my mind...just because you have them doesnt mean a thing, its what you do with it that counts. -flag off again

IzVenjari
22 April 2005, 08:06 PM
I like both - didn't like the midichlorians, didn't like Jar-Jar (but i realise he was there for the kids), but have still loved the prequels so far.

I have one favorite line each from the OT and the PT.

OT: ESB - Lukes scream of "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" when he Darthie said he was his father - especially liked the closeup of his face. Magnificient!!!

PT: AoTC - Anakin telling about how he killed all the Sand-People - particularly the look on his face: "And i killed them all!! Like animals!! etc.."

Fingon
24 April 2005, 05:32 PM
I love Star Wars, it even beats my fondness for Star Trek. I realized that when I watched the Trilogy on DVD... widescreen. First time I had EVER seen it widescreen. I loved every second of it (except a few Ewok scenes).

In my opinon, the origional series has been the best three movies I have ever seen. The acting wasn't top notch, some of the lines were lousy, the animation is dated, and some of the Ewoks made me cringe, but I could look past that becuase of the underlying story, one which will have a special place in my heart forever ( 3rd, right behind Christ and real life).

New series... first time through is an adrenaline rush and, I like it. Second time, I notice things (Jar Jar, midichlorians, etc etc etc) and, quite frankly, it drives me crazy that Lucas put them in there. I don't know if its just a severe lack of judgement or what. But I don't hate the movies. I still love the story, even if they are, in my honest opinon, not very good movies. So I just watch parts of them. And drool at the special effects.


In short: I LOVE the old series, like the new ones... think there is a vast amount of room for improvement... improvment that isn't going to happen.

And I REALLY hope Revenge is going to be better... if it has the same quality, not in special effects or dialogue but in classic story, as the first three, I willl forget everything that I didn't like about Phantom and Clones.

Corr Terek
25 April 2005, 04:44 AM
PT: AoTC - Anakin telling about how he killed all the Sand-People - particularly the look on his face: "And i killed them all!! Like animals!! etc.."

"They're animals! And I slaughtered them like animals!" Love that line. Love the whole sequence, actually. Good acting on Hayden's part. Also, is it just me, or is Padmé the one who rationalizes away Anakin's deed?

"You're only human, Anakin."

It seemed to me that maybe Anakin was struggling with the realization that he'd just wiped out dozens of sentients in a rage. Maybe not regret, per se, but that'd make anyone want to sit back for a second and think. And then Padmé comes along and pretty much gives Anakin that wierd rationalization.

Kind of disturbing.

Jedi Cahlwyn
25 April 2005, 05:20 AM
Midi-chlorians don't take away any of the mysticism of the Force and the Jedi. It isn't said that the midi-chlorians "CREATED" the Force.

"I" read the following to mean that the presence of midi-chlorians allow someone to channel and use the Force. What's the problem with that? The Force is still the Force and the Jedi discovered microscopic organisms that allow them to access it. Nothing is different really. Not a big deal. It also allows the Jedi a true manner to determine the Force Potential of possible students.

This isn't Middle Earth, of course the Jedi would use technology and science to help them learn more about the Force. Midi-chlorians don't change ANYTHING about the FORCE, only about how people are able to use it.

I can see the points brought up but it isn't a "deathblow" to Star Wars by any means. :)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

ANAKIN
Master, sir... I've been wondering... what are midi-chlorians?

QUI-GON
Midi-chlorians are a microcopic lifeform that reside within all living cells and communicates with the Force.

ANAKIN
They live inside of me?

QUI-GON
In your cells. We are symbionts with the midi-chlorians.

ANAKIN
Symbionts?

QUI-GON
Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force.

ANAKIN
They do??

QUI-GON
When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to you.

ANAKIN
I don't understand.

QUI-GON
With time and training, Ani...you will.

Dr_Worm
25 April 2005, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by Corr Terek


"They're animals! And I slaughtered them like animals!" Love that line. Love the whole sequence, actually. Good acting on Hayden's part. Also, is it just me, or is Padmé the one who rationalizes away Anakin's deed?

"You're only human, Anakin."

It seemed to me that maybe Anakin was struggling with the realization that he'd just wiped out dozens of sentients in a rage. Maybe not regret, per se, but that'd make anyone want to sit back for a second and think. And then Padmé comes along and pretty much gives Anakin that wierd rationalization.

Kind of disturbing.
Padme is clearly an enabler.

Rostek
25 April 2005, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Dr_Worm

Padme is clearly an enabler.
Amen-
Padme would give a young Hitler a hug and say "You're only human Addie (his actual nick, btw)" if she thought he were hot. ;)

Corr Terek
25 April 2005, 05:19 PM
Padme would give a young Hitler a hug and say "You're only human Addie (his actual nick, btw)" if she thought he were hot.

Of all the girls for Anakin to get involved with -- the one who'd be most likely to cheerfully help him slide into the Dark Side. Honestly, it's hard to see much of Padmé in Leia. I couldn't picture Leia reacting like Padmé does at all.

IzVenjari
25 April 2005, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by Corr Terek
Of all the girls for Anakin to get involved with -- the one who'd be most likely to cheerfully help him slide into the Dark Side. Honestly, it's hard to see much of Padmé in Leia. I couldn't picture Leia reacting like Padmé does at all.

O i dunno....Leia once made out with her own brother....

kaeroth
25 April 2005, 09:16 PM
Honestly, it's hard to see much of Padmé in Leia.

there's also that tendency to white outfits and funky hair.

Corr Terek
26 April 2005, 05:27 AM
O i dunno....Leia once made out with her own brother....

Last time I checked that wasn't something Padmé did. And we all know Leia wasn't aware of that at the time.


there's also that tendency to white outfits and funky hair.

True, but Leia's not like "Oh, I'm so hot, check me out!" That's what always cracks me up about AoTC. "Anakin we can't be in love which is why I'm constantly wearing tight and revealing outfits around you."

And Leia gets better with the hair problem about halfway through the original trilogy.

Thinithil
26 April 2005, 12:51 PM
As far as Padme being an enabler she's clearly much more PC than Leia ever was. Padme is a pacifist (mostly or at least in the big picture) except when her personal health or the well being of her people are at stake. Anakin's self-esteem was more important than the validity-or lack of validity-of his actions.

Leia couldn't care less about self esteem- you either got it or you don't--After Han gets bounced around in Lando's holding area Leia does not infer that it had been a good idea to attack him. She wades in with the sarcasm-good for her!

ALFRED_THE_EWOK
20 May 2005, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Wesly Senesca
When I hear people moaning and complaining about the prequels, I get angry because I don't think they know what they're complaining about. If its because of the whole "dark side rules" thing, then maybe people are complaining about the lack of Vader. If that's the case, then these people have no patience. Good villians take time, and Vader is a damn good villian. By complaining about Anakin as a child and as an awkard teen, people are (to me) being impatient and greedy. Star Wars is an epic tale. An epic tale takes time and slowly builds up to its climax. I enjoy the entire run of the movies. I don't care what people say about the prequels. Lackluster, shoddy, poor acting / scripting--none of that has any grounds. Hell, I take comfort in the fact that most people who complain about the prequels would probably do worse than they say it already is. Just let it be. Its Lucas's story, not ours. Be glad that its there.

Those things do have ground. Why? Because Star Wars is a movie, its not special.
I say this as a hardcore Star Wars fan, I own roleplaying manuals, novels, video games, action figures, cards, a t-shirt, pez dispensers and god knows what else. I love the Star Wars universe.
But George Lucas is not special, he is a filmmaker and it is his job to make movies. To intentionally overlook flaws is not fair to him and its not fair to the movies themselves. He still has to have a good script, a well paced plot, good acting, etc... to have his movies be good. They don't automatically become good because his name is associated with it.

I'm not gonna let it be, I paid seven dollars to see this and I don't have to like it just because. I am glad that the universe is there, but that doesn't mean I have to put blinders on when I watch the movie which seems to be what you are suggesting.

I just don't understand people who get upset when others don't like what they like. So you like the Star Wars prequels. I don't. Whats wrong with that?

Snib Snub
20 May 2005, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by ALFRED_THE_EWOK


Those things do have ground. Why? Because Star Wars is a movie, its not special.
I say this as a hardcore Star Wars fan, I own roleplaying manuals, novels, video games, action figures, cards, a t-shirt, pez dispensers and god knows what else. I love the Star Wars universe.
But George Lucas is not special, he is a filmmaker and it is his job to make movies. To intentionally overlook flaws is not fair to him and its not fair to the movies themselves. He still has to have a good script, a well paced plot, good acting, etc... to have his movies be good. They don't automatically become good because his name is associated with it.

I'm not gonna let it be, I paid seven dollars to see this and I don't have to like it just because. I am glad that the universe is there, but that doesn't mean I have to put blinders on when I watch the movie which seems to be what you are suggesting.

I just don't understand people who get upset when others don't like what they like. So you like the Star Wars prequels. I don't. Whats wrong with that?

Nothing's wrong with it, Al. But methinks you're going about it the wrong way. This is the second post I've seen from you where you've become very defensive about your opinion. It's perfectly ok to have your opinion and discuss it here, you don't need me to tell you that - but my suggestion is to stop being passive aggressive about the other opinions when no one is attacking you.

Instead, just discuss your opinions without attacking those who are not attacking you and when someone DOES attack you ofr having a disparate opinion, politely suggest they partake in the discussion at hand or simply ignore them.

ALFRED_THE_EWOK
20 May 2005, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Snib Snub


Nothing's wrong with it, Al. But methinks you're going about it the wrong way. This is the second post I've seen from you where you've become very defensive about your opinion. It's perfectly ok to have your opinion and discuss it here, you don't need me to tell you that - but my suggestion is to stop being passive aggressive about the other opinions when no one is attacking you.

Instead, just discuss your opinions without attacking those who are not attacking you and when someone DOES attack you ofr having a disparate opinion, politely suggest they partake in the discussion at hand or simply ignore them.

Ha-ha, we seem to be dueling here. I assure you I'm not really as upset about these things as it may seem.
I was not try to be aggressive or anything like that, but it irks me when people argue about film objecitvely, as if they are right and others are not. Perhaps I come off a bit strong.
Cya around. ;)

Aldaron
28 May 2005, 05:05 PM
If I had to make a decision as to which to take to a desert island with me, I'd probably take the Originals...but that said, I certainly enjoy the prequels as well.

I'm not a fan of Jar Jar Binks - though for different reasons than I generally hear. Yes, he was annoying - that wasn't why I disliked him. I didn't like the character because I felt he was useless - he never did anything right or productive deliberately - it was always by accident. C-3PO was probably his OT equivelant, and he was useful, what with his fluency in over six million forms of communication and all.

That said, I still enjoyed Episode I. I enjoyed the action, and I still think it has the best lightsabre duel in the entire series (yes, after seeing Episode 3 five times, now, I still believe the Obi-Wan/Anakin duel doesn't top the Episode I duel. Ep 3's is edited in short cuts, with too little contrast between lightsabres - and it's too dark).

Episode II's biggest failing, in my opinion, was the "love scene" dialogue. Whether it was just Lucas' writing, his control-freak direction (let the actor's act, George!) or a combination of the two, I still cringe at some of the scenes in there.

Episode III was brilliant. It could well qualify as the best SW movie I've seen. THe dialogue wasn't nearly as stilted as in Episode II, and the action scenes were phenomenal. Whilst the actual fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin I found a little (only a little) disappointing, I thought the psychology there was terrific - especially the argument before the fight actually started.

Anakin's line "You turned her against me!" was delivered with such passion and emotion that even after 5 viewings, it still makes me sit up at how perfectly it is delivered.

I liked the other Gungans, other than Jar Jar: Captain Tarpals was cool, and I really liked Boss Nass.

But then, I also liked Ewoks...so sue me! :D