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Stratos
5 August 2005, 01:57 PM
I asked this of Moridin via email but thought I'd post here for additional isight...

Any idea of any loose timeline of the construction of the Empire? Obviously it is born in the latter part of Episode 3 and the Senate is disbanded in Episode 4. And the Rebellion is young 10 years prior to E4 with A Crispin's Han Solo Trilogy. And I know other EU material is in the works but what sort of timeframe would you give Palpatine in starting the Dark Sdie downfall of Byss and the Core? and the switch from Clone Troopers to Stormtroopers? and do you think Royal Guards in the E2 & 3 were Crimson Empire-esce Force Users?

Thanks!

Faraer
6 August 2005, 05:56 AM
Have you looked at Timetales and/or Star Wars Timeline Gold?

There's no switch from clone troopers to stormtroopers, they're one and the same. The term 'stormtrooper', though, appears within the first year of the Empire.

The Royal Guard aren't Force-users.

Stratos
6 August 2005, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by Faraer
Have you looked at Timetales and/or Star Wars Timeline Gold?


No I have not. Those things are gazillions of pages long. I was coming here for some quick answers.


There's no switch from clone troopers to stormtroopers, they're one and the same. The term 'stormtrooper', though, appears within the first year of the Empire.

Ok, #1 - do you have a definitive example where Stormtroopers are nothing more than renamed Clones? What about all the EU that states that human males join the Empire to serve as Stormtroopers? What about the destruction of the Kamino cloning facilities in Clones Wars Volume 1 (TPB)?

#2. You partially answer my question with your second comment... "stormtrooper appears within the first year of the Empire" and that's exactly what I want to know... but where does it appear?


The Royal Guard aren't Force-users.

Ok, so they're not Force-users in the gaming sense but they are an elite group specially chosen to secretly serve Palpatine. When did theor elite training world get established? Anyone have and EU/RPG answer?

Thanks!

Faraer
6 August 2005, 09:13 AM
The fact that the clone troopers are the stormtroopers, if it wasn't clear from the films, has been mentioned many times by George Lucas, who uses the terms interchangeably in interviews, and the fact that stormtroopers are mostly clones is firmly established in the modern EU (Empire, the TCG, etc.). Kamino's cloning facilities are destroyed in a battle mentioned in "The History of the Mandalorians" (Star Wars Insider #80), not in that comic, but obviously the Kaminoans aren't the galaxy's only cloners. (There are only a few old sources featuring non-clone stormtroopers, anyway.)

We see in The Last of the Jedi #1: The Desperate Mission that stormtroopers are in their accustomed roles by a year after Episode III. "When the Clone Wars began, the stormtroopers had stood for the safety of the Republic. Now they were instruments of intimidation." starwars.com Databank (http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/clonetroopers/index.html): "With their Jedi leaders taken out, the chain of command placed the clone troopers under the Chancellor, who would regroup and reform his galaxy-spanning armed forces into the stormtrooper ranks that came to symbolize the oppressive might of the Galactic Empire."

What source is this "elite training world" from?

The Rebellion exists in some form from the start of the Empire, as seen in Episode III (novel and deleted scenes), but it doesn't become a unified military opposition until the signing of the Corellian Treaty and the Declaration of Rebellion, 2 BBY.

Stratos
6 August 2005, 09:30 AM
Regarding "stormtroopers"... EXCELLENT! Thanks. I forgot about that line in the Last of the Jedi #1 (good little book!).

Regarding the Imperial Guard... in the same .Starwars.com Databank it says this about the Guard (http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/emperorsroyalguard/?id=eu):

"After impeccable and impressive performance, candidates have their training advanced to achieve the rank of Royal Guard. On the barren world of Yinchorr, Guardsmen undergo grueling tests of combat reflexes and stamina. They are trained in the deadly martial art of echani.

In Palpatine's fanatical drive to draw the most from his followers' ambition and greed, he constantly added levels of achievement beyond the highest rank. That said, the best Royal Guards aspired to become Imperial Sovereign Protectors. Their armor was more ceremonial and ornate than that of the standard Royal Guards, and their skills were said to have been augmented by the dark side of the Force."

So, there is the world. There is the "Force-user" comment I used earlier. When do you think this training facility would have been created? My guess is as early as between Episodes 1 & 2... especially with the on-screen intro of the Royal Guard in AOTC.

Faraer
6 August 2005, 09:39 AM
CUSWE indicates it's much later than that:
Yinchorr
Leia Organa was betrayed by an Alderaanian stormtrooper on this planet, shortly before the Battle of Endor. Yinchorr's surface was covered with rocky deserts. She had been shot down during her arrival at the planet, having been betrayed by a group of Yinchorri delegates. The Imperials believed that Leia died in the crash, but the trooper found her at the crashsite. He revealed that he was an Alderaanian commoner who joined the Empire because he was disgruntled with the prosperity of the royal family. Despite his anger, the trooper eventually forged a bond with Leia, which was broken when he was shot and killed by Governor Wessel during Leia's escape from Yinchorr. A few months later, Yinchorr was "cleansed" of its original inhabitants by the Empire, in order to make way for a training facility for Emperor Palpatine's elite Royal Imperial Guard. The primary world of the Yinchorri System, Yinchorr was abandoned after Carnor Jax destroyed the Royal Imperial Guard facility there, shortly after the death of Emperor Palpatine's clones at Byss. (CE, AOW, MC86, LTA6)Anyone who's read the listed sources (except Acts of War, which takes place six months before Episode I) confirm this?

Stratos
6 August 2005, 09:41 AM
But to throw a minor wrench into the Timeline, Yinchorr was first introduced in the Ongoing comic series - Jedi Council - Acts of War (TPB), as the world that held Yaddle captive prior to Episode 1 and Cloak of Deception... obviously all tied together neatly in some fashion.

Stratos
6 August 2005, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Faraer
CUSWE indicates it's much later than that:Anyone who's read the listed sources (except Acts of War, which takes place six months before Episode I) confirm this?

Great stuff! But what is CUSWE?

Faraer
6 August 2005, 09:46 AM
Completely Unofficial Star Wars Encyclopedia (www.theforce.net/swenc/).

Timetales dates Leia's mission to Yinchorr at 2 ABY.

(But Yaddle was trapped on Koba, not Yinchorr.)

Stratos
6 August 2005, 10:00 AM
Oh. Thanks. Double-thanks. I admit - if I haven't read it lately I begin to forget it... and the Prequel Era is not all the memorable in general (IMO). However, it is the Era my campaign is in so I'm doing my best.

So, if Yinchorr isn't the training facility at the time of the Birth of the Empire but we have Royal/Imperial Gaurds as early as AOTC... where'd they get trained? Or are they nothing more in the movies than red Senate Guards (doubtful)?

Faraer
6 August 2005, 10:09 AM
The formation of the Supreme Chancellor's Guard is discussed in "Galactic Power Brokers" in Star Wars Gamer #10. "With the increased threats from the Separatist terrorists [this would be 24 or 23 BBY], Captain Prid Shan demanded additional funding to upgrade the equipment and training [presumably on Coruscant] of select Senatorial Guards." After that, the red guards operate separately from the Senate Guard.

Stratos
6 August 2005, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Faraer
The formation of the Supreme Chancellor's Guard is discussed in "Galactic Power Brokers" in Star Wars Gamer #10. "With the increased threats from the Separatist terrorists [this would be 24 or 23 BBY], Captain Prid Shan demanded additional funding to upgrade the equipment and training [presumably on Coruscant] of select Senatorial Guards." After that, the red guards operate separately from the Senate Guard.

Excellent! This is perfect for my campaign. Thanks, I'll whip out Gamer #10 and read up on it all.

Cheers!

Stratos
8 August 2005, 03:51 PM
Same topic... new question...

Regarding Timelines in the birth of the Empire... Moridin wrote


The mysterious planet Byss lies at the heart of the Imperial holdings in the Deep Core. A pleasant resort world used by Emperor Palpatine as a personal retreat, Byss was once a lush and fertile planet that was used as a lure to attract willing followers to settle in the Core. Over time, the Emperorís dark side energies slowly corrupted the world and transformed it into one of the most powerful dark side sites in the entire galaxy. An eerie blue-green sunlight bathes everything on the world in an unusual glow, contributing to the overwhelming strangeness of the world. The planet itself is something of a myth, built up to pique the curiosity of those who have heard of a mysterious paradise planet ruled by the Empire. With tranquil scenery, low geological activity, exceedingly mild seasons, and the feel of a luxury resort, the surface of the planet appears to be the perfect place to live, which is exactly what Palpatine wants its inhabitants to believe.
Approaching Byss from space makes it abundantly clear that this is the true stronghold of the Emperor. An entire sector fleet is spread throughout the Beshqek system, with a ring of Star Destroyers encircling the planet itself. A web of sensor arrays known as the Gauntlet Scanners crisscrosses the entire world, continually monitoring IFF transponders, security codes, and other forms of authorization for anyone showing even the slightest signs of forged documentation. The Star Destroyers in orbit have standing orders to open fire immediately on anyone identified by the Gauntlet Scanners with full and lethal force. The Byss Security Zone, as the space around the planet is known, is completely off-limits to anyone not authorized by the Empire in advance. A METOSP (Message To Spacers) makes it abundantly clear to any travelers entering the system that the Empire tolerates absolutely no trespassing in the area surrounding the dark world.

So my question now is... when would this "Retreat for Palpatine" be created? Before he is Emperor? RIght away when he is Emperor? Or years later?

Basically asking, if I'm playing a campaign directly following ROTS, would Palpatine have started this dark side "invasion" already or in years to come? What sort of presence would the new Empire have on Byss within a year following ROTS?

chiefcaptin
8 August 2005, 06:38 PM
Byss is the personal planet of Palpy and him and only his most loyal officers even know it exist. It was discovered by a secret exploration mission to the deep core and when it was discovered, Palpy decided to keep it off the star maps for a little longer. He sets up his cloning facilitys and he grew his clones, waiting for the day when they would be needed...

All this happens after Palpy declares his new order. I read it in the Essential Guide to Planets and Moons (great book) you can probly find it at your library.

Please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.

Chief

Stratos
8 August 2005, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by chiefcaptin
All this happens after Palpy declares his new order. I read it in the Essential Guide to Planets and Moons (great book) you can probly find it at your library.

Please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.

Chief [/B]

Thanks Chief - I own the book and will re-read it and the Essential Chrono (maybe more is in there)? I'll confess to my laziness these past couple of days... it's been easier to post here than look on my shelf which is less than 1 meter away! :)

- Stratos