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View Full Version : WotC quits SWRPG?? Please tell me I'm wrong...



darth_wyld
7 October 2005, 04:38 AM
Just read this on the Wizards-Board ( here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=514805) )

Quoted there is a mail to the Living-Force Campaign members containing the following:

Wizards of the Coast has no interest in pursuing the Star Wars
license agreement with LucasFilm beyond its Miniatures product
line. This final decision came only very recently, which is why
there has been such a delay in an announcement. With no roleplaying
products coming out or scheduled, the roleplaying organized play
division (the RPGA) will not support a second campaign set in the
Star Wars universe.


Is this the thing we've all been fearing?

I hope I misinterpreted this part but...

Uron Teff
7 October 2005, 05:15 AM
Wizards of the Coast has no interest in pursuing the Star Wars
license agreement with LucasFilm beyond its Miniatures product
line. This final decision came only very recently, which is why
there has been such a delay in an announcement. With no roleplaying
products coming out or scheduled....

WOW! That's a hard blow.
No second LF campaign because they do not want to publish any more SW RPG books. That's what I read out of this message. Let me quote it a second time....


. With no roleplaying products coming out or scheduled

I think that's the point. "No roleplaying products coming out or scheduled" or as I would say "No more SW RPG".
:(

darkforcerising
7 October 2005, 05:39 AM
KHAAAAAAANNNN!!!!!

This is terrible! I guess I've been expecting it to some degree, but at least before there was hope. I hate them, and I'll never buy any of their miniatures ever again. Maybe. But I am quite disappointed.

Donovan Morningfire
7 October 2005, 08:13 AM
Hang on a sec before you start grabbing your pitchforks and torches.

We've known for some time that WotC has no Star Wars sourcebooks coming out or scheduled for quite some time. All that's been said is 'wait and see.' Also RPGA is one department in a huge corporate entity, and working for a corporation myself, what one department gets told isn't always the god's honest truth. It may be that WotC has no current interest in pursueing the RPG line in the immediate future, which we've already known to be true. Further, the e-mail's main purpose is to convey that the Living Force setting is closing up shop once it has run it's course.

Another thing to remember is just becuase the parent company is no longer publishing products doesn't mean a game line is no longer viable at your game table. There are legions of Star Wars RPG fans that remain loyal to the d6 version, in spite of there being no official support for years.

Now it could very well be that WotC wants to wash their hands of the SWRPG (which according to various sources never really was a financial success for them, not to mention the headaches from dealing with the suit'n'ties over at LucasArts/Film to make sure everything is in compliance with their dictates). And it could also be Chicken Little saying the sky is falling.

I say patience before we start forming lynch mobs.

Lokar
7 October 2005, 10:54 AM
Well, to be honest, WOTC never really put the same level of effort that old WEG did with the product line. However, there are several factors that played into foremost amongst them was the fact that WEG pretty much *WAS* all the new source material for Star Wars and remain a driving force from 1987 until the line ended and the Prequels began. Now I did take a look at the material and while the regional guides and that one fringer campagin looked cool overall, WOTC never really went much beyond milking the markets created by the Prequels and NJO (more so on Prequels IMO).


Now if the cartoon and live action series actually take off then you might seen some renewed interest but barring that I believe that all new material will come from the GM and players themselves on sites much like this. Not that there is anything wrong that. As Dono menioned there are many "bitter ender" D6ers. :)

boccelounge
7 October 2005, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by Lokar
Well, to be honest, WOTC never really put the same level of effort that old WEG did with the product line. However, there are several factors that played into foremost amongst them was the fact that WEG pretty much *WAS* all the new source material for Star Wars and remain a driving force from 1987 until the line ended and the Prequels began. Now I did take a look at the material and while the regional guides and that one fringer campagin looked cool overall, WOTC never really went much beyond milking the markets created by the Prequels and NJO (more so on Prequels IMO).

Well... I know "d6 vs. d20" debates are silly, unresolvable, and "so 2001"... but as a fan of both systems, I think you're short-changing the d20 stuff here. The oft-overlooked Galactic Campaign Guide is easily one of the top 5 or so "how to GM this system" books I've come across in 20+ years of RPG'ing... just to name one.

WEG books were rich in stats and stories; WotC seem to have stats and "how to use this" tips-- and I quite like both. Regardless of which rule system I'm using, I use both sets of sourcebooks almost constantly... I wonder how many die-hard d6'ers have really given the d20 stuff more than a cursory glance...

Not to single out your comments, Lokar. They're just comments I've seen frequently; seems pretty interesting to me that there would still be such (for lack of a better term) "partisanship" amongst SW gamers... ;)

2cr.

Lokar
7 October 2005, 11:23 AM
Oh don't get me wrong the Dark Sider book is interesting as is the two "regional books" (or as a WEGer would probably say Galaxy Guides) also has cool information. Of course WOTC material is the only offical source for gaming material on the Prequel era and NJO. But if you wanted to run a "classic" campagin you're better off hitting EBay to find some WEG stuff. I thumbed through the Rebellion era and... *shakes head*

boccelounge
7 October 2005, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Lokar
But if you wanted to run a "classic" campagin you're better off hitting EBay to find some WEG stuff. I thumbed through the Rebellion era and... *shakes head*

Yeah, I'm right with you on that one: the WEG Rebel Alliance Sourcebook is easily my most-used reference... and I kick myself constantly for giving away my Imperial Sourcebook [sic].

Where (IMO) the d20 stuff really excels is the story-telling tips. I mentioned the GCG; the Hero's Guide has similarly fantastic tips for running a SW campaign-- how to get the feel, tone, atmosphere, and "epic scope" of the films. I've always been quite impressed by that stuff... I just wish more GMs studied these sections, rather then memorizing all the weapons, powers, feats, etc. ;)

But, I've strayed off-topic long enough... apologies. :)

Rostek
7 October 2005, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Donovan Morningfire
I say patience before we start forming lynch mobs.

But we can, you know, get stuff organized for forming lynchmobs, right? :D

I concur- wait and see is probably our best option for the time being.

coldskier0320
10 October 2005, 02:07 PM
If this is indeed the end of new shtuff from WotC, which would aggrivate me, I think, as a society we have the right to last licks. I'm envisioning sending a leter to WotC...something along the lines of, "Since you aren't making anymore money off of SWRPG, I'm sure y'all wouldn't object to a little distribution of long-repressed programming code..."

;)

kaeroth
10 October 2005, 02:47 PM
I'm envisioning sending a leter to WotC...something along the lines of, "Since you aren't making anymore money off of SWRPG, I'm sure y'all wouldn't object to a little distribution of long-repressed programming code..."
Oooh, that'd be great. Though, really, I'm sure they'd object just as much now as they did then. I bet the distribution of the program-that-cannot-be-named (assuming that's the one you're talking about) would get the distributing site in a whole heap o' trouble, plus i bet...um...the program creator would get in trouble for honest and true this time.
None of this is to say that if someone wanted to brave the dogs of WotC and/or Lucasfilm, run the blockade, and make it available, I wouldn't be standing in line fairly near the beginning, cuz I would.
But I just bet it's not to be.

cheshire
10 October 2005, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by coldskier0320
If this is indeed the end of new shtuff from WotC, which would aggrivate me, I think, as a society we have the right to last licks. I'm envisioning sending a leter to WotC...something along the lines of, "Since you aren't making anymore money off of SWRPG, I'm sure y'all wouldn't object to a little distribution of long-repressed programming code..."

;)

As great is that would be, WotC doesn't even have the authority to life to supression of the code! :(

They have an agreement with Lucas Arts that releasing Star Wars software is the soley the right of Lucas Arts, and different subdivision of Lucasfilm Limited. If what I understand is correct, they are disallowing the distribution of the program in order to protect theselves legally.

Now, why it was WotC making the threats and not LA, I have no idea.

Rostek
10 October 2005, 04:38 PM
They were basically (as I understand it) told to "enforce our agreement, dammit", since WotC were the license holders of the RPG, this fell under their purview given the nature of the program in question.
And only Lucas LLC has the power to release TPTCBN- and that's not going to happen.
:sigh:

kaeroth
10 October 2005, 04:48 PM
Overall, this (http://www.khaaan.com/) is how I feel about it.

cheshire
10 October 2005, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by Rostek
They were basically (as I understand it) told to "enforce our agreement, dammit", since WotC were the license holders of the RPG, this fell under their purview given the nature of the program in question.
And only Lucas LLC has the power to release TPTCBN- and that's not going to happen.
:sigh:

Frankly, I don't understand why they care so darn much. If they feel like they're loosing money by its availability on the internet, then create one yourself. That and they never seemed to care that there was a (crappy) D6 SW character generator.

Anyhoo. If WotC winds up giving up the licence in 2007 or '08, who knows. Maybe there's a chance of getting "the program that cannot be named" out.

But, more on the subject. I doubt that WotC is just going to let the licence go. Though E3 was not enough to stimulate enough interest to merit a sourcebook, perhaps the new television show may be able to do something. Either that, or we can continue to look forward to web supplements to cover the TV show.

Man I wish I had cable.

Andrew Simmons
8 November 2005, 04:59 AM
Can someone tell me "What it darnations is, The Program that cannot be named"

"Thanks"

kaeroth
8 November 2005, 07:45 AM
Can someone tell me "What it darnations is, The Program that cannot be named"

'Twas a character generator that was just cooler than frosty chocolate milkshakes (that's the rumor, anyway). The problem was, it used its own software as opposed to things like the oodles of Excel-based stuff on this site and elsewhere. And *that*, apparently, was a no-no as far as the agreement bewteen LFL and WotC went. WotC had the license to create stand-alone pencil and paper gaming material, and that didn't include charac-gen software. The guy who created Okina-Rdae (spelling?), Nazgul (is that right? I should have done my fact-checking before i hit reply), also didn't have permission, and got the "quit it or it's your @$$" memo, and took it off his website. This is the info i've gleaned since I joined up, which i think was only a few short months after he had to pull it. Go all the way down to the bottom of the forums page, and there's a forum on it. I'd link it, but again, i hit reply before i really prepared my response.

Vanger Chevane
8 November 2005, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by kaeroth


'Twas a character generator that was just cooler than frosty chocolate milkshakes (that's the rumor, anyway).
TPTCBN does a lot more than chars. Includes a Ship Gen & a bunch of other tools. Pretty much a complete toolbox of helpers.

The big problem AFAIK (and according to some Wizards rep) was LucasArts retains all rights to "Star Wars Computer Software", and TPTCBN was deemed to be such. WotC apparently enforced it as their RPG license as WotC has nothing about any sort of software in its license.


Were WotC to attempt to create SWRPG helpers for the puter, it'd have to be nogotiated (and probly jointly produced/marketed/etc.) with LA.

dgswensen
4 December 2005, 11:06 AM
You know, I had a funny feeling, when the miniatures game came out, that we'd soon be seeing the end of the RPG.

I think WotC is more interested in milking that cash cow than anything.

Sithspawn
5 December 2005, 03:24 AM
Much as I like the minis, it's as if this was a WOTC conspiracy from the start. Get the RPG licence, then twist it into a licence to make minis.

Much as I like WOTC products I still think their business management sucks!

But whatever happened to the D20 RPG petition?
Was it ever sent to WOTC or LFL?

cheshire
5 December 2005, 05:34 AM
If I'm not mistaken it has been brought to WotC's attention. I could hardly immagine that it has escaped the notice of LFL.

Xain Arke
6 December 2005, 02:05 AM
both collectable cards and minis are crack for gamers, you buy one...you gotta have more.. ;)


Much as I like the minis, it's as if this was a WOTC conspiracy from the start. Get the RPG licence, then twist it into a licence to make minis.

not sure that was their 'conspiracy' ;) but they were probably thinking along the lines of making the game a collectable mini one as soon as those games really took off.

my problem with the minis is that as cool as I think they are [and they are pretty sweet] they've done what all collectable games do and limit supply of certain ones to bump up prices and make collectors by ten thousand packs to get the whole like 100 set [or whatever]. its very difficult to get jedi and other interesting figures for use in the RPG without paying extortionate prices..they should just sell them as RPG minis and have no limit on certain types..then I'd think about buying some.


If I'm not mistaken it has been brought to WotC's attention. I could hardly immagine that it has escaped the notice of LFL.

as much as I would like LFL to say HEY!!..I doubt they care very much as they know fans will always by starwars stuff no matter what they do..one or two people boycott makes little difference to a global marketting machine...unfortunately.

Xain

Sithspawn
6 December 2005, 04:03 AM
as much as I would like LFL to say HEY!!..I doubt they care very much as they know fans will always by starwars stuff no matter what they do..one or two people boycott makes little difference to a global marketting machine...unfortunately.
Precisely. So I buy the minis as my only RPG fix, at least until I can persuade my group to play another game.

Marty-Wan
6 December 2005, 05:51 AM
Now for my 2 Cents on this subject.

I bought all of the WEG books when they first came out (I had played D&D and the original Marvel Super Heroes RPG in school) but because of my parents moving around I never found anyone to play with so the (8 or 9) books and modules (and the 4 boxes of miniatures) sat on my shelf for years. When news of the prequels came to light my friend and I tried to start playing but we never found a group large enough so back to the shelves. When the WotC game came out we tried to play the rules were so different from any game we had played before we never even tried it, I just bought he books because they were cool. However we became hooked on the Young Jedi Collectible Card Game and then the Star Wars Trading Card Game from Wizards. I sunk a fortune into that (now defunct) game and we would play once a week and gamble cards as well, it was just fun but the RPG sat on the self collecting dust (well we did play a Living Force game once at a convention in Orland - but thatís another story). Now the minis come out and my friend, my wife and my son all fall in love with them (and so do I), but one night we are playing and my friend is kicking my butt and I realize that itís because he has more options to build his squads from, in short he spent more money than I did on getting the best minis.

Before I rushed out to get more I stopped myself and gave the situation a long hard look.

The mini rules are similar to the game style of the RPG (itís like RPG for dummies) and my family and friends seem to enjoy them, perhaps they would enjoy the RPG as well Ö and I donít have to shell out a small fortune to play it. This is what is inherently wrong with an RPG as a business model; all you need to play the game is one book and a set of dice - ever. Once youíve bought the core book then on you donít ďneedĒ to buy any other book or miniature or module unlike a ďcollectibleĒ game where if you donít keep dumping cash into it you canít keep up. So if Wizards never publishes another book will that hurt you playing the game, I say no, the only thing it will do is keep new people from picking it up and that could become a problem in the future, unless mini people migrate to the RPG (as I did). Also with all of the resources online (like this site) you could play for years and not use them all. Iíll be honest I now have a bookshelf full of over 40 Star Wars RPG books (from WEG and WotC) and I would love to add some more, but when I look in my Star Wars RPG Folder on my computer I find 77 PDFs I downloaded from the internet and another 6 documents I created myself, Iíve got more source material than I know what to do with.

RPGs are a game of the mind they donít take much to play, so I say let Wizards turn their back on the game (even though the minis work well with the RPG), itís our game now, letís keep it alive and make it better than Wizards ever could.

Uron Teff
6 December 2005, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by Marty-Wan
RPGs are a game of the mind they donít take much to play, so I say let Wizards turn their back on the game (even though the minis work well with the RPG), itís our game now, letís keep it alive and make it better than Wizards ever could.

That's exactly the point, Marty, and I totally agree with you. We should stop whining about WotC *dropping* Star Wars RPG. Well they refused to do another The Living Force campaign and yeah maybe there won't be another Core Rule Book (Third Edition) or whatever but I do have the stuff for some RPG action. My dice and a some SWRPG books.
The point is that the players keep the game alive. Well WE cannot do everything we want but this is OUR game.
I'll stick to Star Wars RPG (d20) even though there won't be no new books. But folks compare it to d6. d6 will never ever die... as WotC Star Wars RPG, IMO.

Darth Albeehotep
6 December 2005, 02:51 PM
Well it seems to be up to us as loyal gamers and sw fans to keep our games alive and kicking
between us all on this site and the very talented minds that come up with and explore new stories ,charecters and equipment for the star wars universe in our group im not afraid of losing its magic and as WOC screw them.money grupping nerf herders.whos with me
:emperor: :emperor: :emperor: :sabersml: :sabersml: :sabersml:

Darth Albeehotep
6 December 2005, 02:54 PM
Also we can boycott their products if you want to
but i like the D20 system and all that
but we can also bombard them with E-mails every day for months .
if every member sent one for 30-60 days that would show them the effects of supply and demand

Jan Tolbara
6 December 2005, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Darth Albeehotep
but we can also bombard them with E-mails every day for months .
if every member sent one for 30-60 days that would show them the effects of supply and demand

No, all that will do is fill their inboxes and annoy them beyond belief.

Online petitions don't really do it, either. But, it is a step in the right direction.

If you really want to impress them, you need to send them a letter via snail mail. The more original letters (meaning don't type one up and tell everyone on the Internet to copy what you wrote and send it in) they receive, the more it will be noticed.

If you really want to do this, here is the mailing address for Wizards of the Coast:

Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
PO Box 707
Renton, WA 98057

Marty-Wan
6 December 2005, 03:46 PM
Hey now letís not get crazy with boycotts and stuff, Wizards makes good products, just not any Star Wars product. The books from Dungeons and Dragons and d20 Modern are great to get tid Ėbits from for you Star Wars games. I was going to say that Iíve been developing a new Star Wars Mariner Prestige Class based on one from the D&D Dragonlance book, so donít just stop buying Wizards to make a point, because I donít think theyíll get it. Even though Wizards isnít going to make anymore Star Wars RPG books, their website seems to be supporting the game and the Revenge of the Sith minis book featured some RPG stats.

Darth Albeehotep
7 December 2005, 10:58 PM
well the idea of sending snail mail is a fair one
as for boycotting WOC is a matter of personal choice i to belive they make great products but they are business people after all and why put out books when once it is purchased thats all. When they can come out with a new collectable card games or a collectable minitures game put it in a pack of others most of which you dont want or already have which is crap then watch as people spend oodles of money to get that one special card or mini or hock their kid on e-bay to get it
commercialism at its best
:sabersml: :katarn:

gmjabreson
8 December 2005, 06:53 PM
hell if i wanted to spend money on those minis, i'd go on ebay and search for the older star wars micromachines. They looked cool and were the inspiration to the minis. So in a way if galoob were to get off their but they could go after wizards for plagerizing a product of theirs.

Marty-Wan
9 December 2005, 05:49 AM
Yeah Ö that wonít be happening. See Hasbro, who owns Wizards of the Coast bought Galoob just before Episode I came out. Hasbro pretty much has the Star Wars license tied up; in fact Iím surprised that Wizardís publishing arm hasnít made a bid for the rights to publish the EU books.

Darth Albeehotep
9 December 2005, 10:27 AM
Well the minis are cool but i hate the mini rules and only use them for roleplaying and this whole collectible.rare,ultra rare common is batha poodoo.its incidious and evil i belive its nothing put a ploy to squeeze every dime from their customers

Xain Arke
9 December 2005, 12:31 PM
this whole collectible.rare,ultra rare common is batha poodoo.its incidious and evil i belive its nothing put a ploy to squeeze every dime from their customers

of course it is...and unfortunately it works :( which is why I don't buy the minis [even though they are quite cool :) ]

Xain

Darth Albeehotep
9 December 2005, 01:20 PM
i have to agree with you xain
and if i do buy minis it will be through e-bay but thats bad for our local game stores as they can not match the prices and many have gone out of business because of it
reminds me of the old days at tsr when gary gygaxs ex wife ran things
they keep alienating their customers at the expense of a buck
have they ever heard of supply and demand:emperor: :sabersml:

Xain Arke
9 December 2005, 01:41 PM
have they ever heard of supply and demand

sure they have, they DEMAND gamers pay outrageous prices for tiny plastic figures and gamers SUPPLY vast quantities of cash for them ;) :D

Xain

Darth Albeehotep
10 December 2005, 07:24 AM
and i thought as a psych nurse i could be mean a cruel(just kidding)these guys make the sith look like quakers

Xain Arke
10 December 2005, 07:51 AM
Psych nurse 8o [runs off trailing untied straight jacket sleeves] I'm not going back..You'll never take me alive!! ;) :D


these guys make the sith look like quakers

well I'm not so sure, at least they don't kill their customers...yet. I've heard the Quakers do that all the time..;) :D

Xain

Darth Albeehotep
10 December 2005, 09:35 PM
only with bordom have family thast a combination of mormon and quakers in utah
spent one and only one summer with them
let me tell you this catholic aint never gone back to that crazy place

Xain Arke
11 December 2005, 02:15 AM
only with bordom have family thast a combination of mormon and quakers in utah spent one and only one summer with them
let me tell you this catholic aint never gone back to that crazy place

U..tah.... where :?.... ;) :D

Xain

gmjabreson
13 December 2005, 10:17 AM
exactly, they demand we pay high prices for little toy figures instead of producing more books. But then again their prices for books wasn't all that equal either. $20 for 96 pages?
I won't buy any minis, no matter how cool they look, i have a large collection of the old micromachines which are just as cool if not better. If I need something for visually seeing players represented and npc's represented, I'll use those first.

Xain Arke
13 December 2005, 01:04 PM
i have a large collection of the old micromachines which are just as cool if not better. If I need something for visually seeing players represented and npc's represented, I'll use those first.

Ah cool, I love those dinky MM starwars figures, they were ace, you could stuff them in a pocket and have no worries about weight, space or them getting broken in transit. plus once at gaming the space needed to lay them out is tiny...much coolness :D

:( wish I had more of those.....;) :D

Xain

Darth Albeehotep
14 December 2005, 08:39 AM
Ya micro machines were cool and are getting hard to get
also they had a great line of ships too
worked great for combat minis perfect scale

kaeroth
14 December 2005, 08:58 AM
I've only got a couple of the lil figures, but i've got a heap of the ships. Well, I actually have more Star Trek MMs than SW, but those serve just fine, especially if you turn them upside down so they stop being so familiar-looking.

Xain Arke
14 December 2005, 11:27 AM
Ya micro machines were cool and are getting hard to get also they had a great line of ships too worked great for combat minis perfect scale

yeah man, I have a bunch of those. for a dramatic campaign ending once I broke the seams on my ships, made clay molds and cast a load up in plaster, painted and varnished they were fairly tough and certainly made the game huge epic fleet vs fleet fun. :)


Well, I actually have more Star Trek MMs than SW, but those serve just fine, especially if you turn them upside down so they stop being so familiar-looking.

I used a load of games workshop ships to bolster my SW MM ones, they're about the same sort of scale and they have some really cool looking ships. downside is the price tag, but it's easy to just buy one and mold your own :D

I think the B5 minis would probably work too.

Xain