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Armage Bedar
3 May 2000, 08:08 PM
Well, there's a reason for this. It is because lightsaber combat is so much more difficult and complex than can be included under a simple melee combat skill. There is much more finesse involved with a saber than a vibroblade or club.

Indeed - even lightstaff combat is an advanced version of lightsaber combat. There is just so much more complexity involved.

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- Armage Bedar
The STATS Man
Administrator, SW-RPG HoloNet Discussion Forums (http://www.terrandesigns.com/holonet)
Imperial Technology Systems (http://www.terrandesigns.com/its)

Apocalypse
3 May 2000, 08:26 PM
I agree. Using a lightsaber is just much more complicated than using melee weapons. If you wanted to put it under melee I would raise the difficulty even higher.

Puterdragon
4 May 2000, 07:39 AM
I recently started a SW campaign and am wondering WHY there is a seperate skill for lightsaber combat. To my thinking this should fall under melee combat. I know the old argument that "light sabers are harder to use", but I think the chance to hurt your self if you fail a roll already accounts for that. Any comments?

Innst Lo Bi
4 May 2000, 10:09 AM
Also, lightsabers (consisting mainly of light) weigh next-to-nothing so it's very different weilding a lightsaber that a great big sword made of metal

Ping
4 May 2000, 08:09 PM
Part of it's the difficulty, but mostly I think it's to avoid munchkins. If you had lightsaber combat as just a melee skill, you could conceivably specialize in it, making it really easy. Then you'd have someone with Melee:lightsaber at 10D, when they've only been gaming a few sessions.

As for a "real" explanation, um, I don't know. http://www.terrandesigns.com/mainubb/ubb/smile.gif

Jedi_Shadow
4 May 2000, 08:31 PM
The 'avoiding munchkins' is the only explanation I can think of, and I don't buy it. Oh well.

Puterdragon
4 May 2000, 08:35 PM
GM control is the best way to avoid munchkins. I would NEVER allow a character to have lightsabre skill, let alone a real lightsabre unless he had a real good reason why (ie he's a Jedi)

Kayle Skolaris
4 May 2000, 08:37 PM
You CAN specialize with lightsabres. Think about the differences between Qui-Gon's lightsabre and say.... Darth Vader's sabre. Or between the Sabre Obi-Wan had in TPM and the one he had in ANH. The styling is different, the controls are different, and the handling will be different due to how it feels in the hand (lots of knobby things versus a smooth grip). There is as much difference between the observed sabres as there is between a Blastech DL-44 and a Merr-Sonn Flash-4. As such, since it is a given that EVERY SABRE IS UNIQUE it isn't a stretch to have a specialization of Lightsabre: My Lightsabre. As for when such a specialization might come into play as an advantage or disadvantage, I direct you to Darth Maul's death scene. If Kenobi has specialized in his own sabre rather than had the general skill with all sabres he may well have had to fiddle for a crucial second to activate Qui-Gon's sabre. The same applies to Luke learning to use the sabre he used in RotJ as opposed to the one he used in ANH and ESB.

Puterdragon
5 May 2000, 06:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Innst Lo Bi:
Also, lightsabers (consisting mainly of light) weigh next-to-nothing so it's very different weilding a lightsaber that a great big sword made of metal<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree on this point, BUT swinging a club, stabbing with a dagger, fighting with a quarter staff and fencing are all VERY different, yet THEY all fall under the same skill. And as for complexity, if you've ever seen an Olympic-quality fencing match, I'd like to think that it would be just as complex as a lightsaber battle. Don't just say it's too complex...tell me WHY?

Jedi_Shadow
5 May 2000, 07:13 AM
I'm afraid I'm going to have to side with Puterdragon on this one. I'm just not seeing enough difference between the lightsaber and other hand-to-hand weapons to warrant its own skill. (I also don't see much difference in shooting a blaster or a slugthrower, but that's another thread.)

[This message has been edited by Jedi_Shadow (edited 05 May 2000).]

Puterdragon
5 May 2000, 07:51 AM
Thanks Shad.

I honestly DO want as much discussion as possible on this topic, please send along opinions.

ALFRED_THE_EWOK
5 May 2000, 06:23 PM
A lightsaber is a mystical weapon that requires specific training to get better at. They are quite different from any other meelee weapon. Would it really make sense for a generic hoodlum with a meelee combat of, oh say 4D or 5D, pick up a lightsaber and be able to fight back against jedi PC's.

Kayle Skolaris
5 May 2000, 09:09 PM
Lightsabres are products of TECHNOLOGY, not MAGIC! To say they are "mystical weapons" is to drag the Star Wars saga down to a level which I personally find totally unacceptable. If you want to play with magic swords, the Dungeon Master's Guide for AD&D has plenty of them. Go play that.

Jedi_Shadow
5 May 2000, 09:26 PM
I actually believe that lightsabers sit somewhere between technology and mystical objects. Have you ever gone to a car show and seen a car that has been meticulously fine-tuned, its owner putting his or her heart, soul, sweat, and buckets of money into it? That car has a life of its own. It's not just a pile of pieces. It is a work of art. Same with lightsabers. True, it is nothing more than physical, technological components, but it acts as an extension of its maker's body. On a very basic sense, these are 'magic swords'.

And I'm starting to see some merit to having a separate skill for lightsabers. From a purely role-playing point of view, the skill acts as a powerful regulator to both Jedi and non-Jedi alike. If you're not a Jedi, you're not likely to know the skill (and probably shouldn't pick one up). If you are a Jedi, it further supports the fact that the lightsaber acts as an extension of your own body.

Ping
5 May 2000, 10:48 PM
Well, how about this?

The lightsaber has a massless blade. You're basically swinging a handle around, but hitting with the rest of it. With everything else, you have a handle/hilt/place to put your hand, but also a blade or surface to hit with. Even though there's a large difference between them, they all have a basic, similar construction. (Except chair legs and bottles and probably a hundred other exceptions I can't think of.) http://www.terrandesigns.com/mainubb/ubb/smile.gif The lightsaber is not. It may look similar, but it isn't. Have you ever played with a toy lightsaber hilt? It's fun, but what you may not realize is that THAT is about what it feels like to fight with a saber. There's not resistance when you cut into your couch or through your friend, like with plastic or wooden sabers. It just goes right in. Even accounting for that would be difficult.

The high difficulty might reflect that, but I don't know that it would account for it, since, as I see it, anyway, it's a totally different weapon. An example might be that a slugthrower would have a kick that you have to adjust for, as well as accounting for wind, rifling, sites, etc, while a blaster will be much more accurate. That's why the separate skills. IMNSO, of course. http://www.terrandesigns.com/mainubb/ubb/wink.gif

And I agree with Jedi_Shadow. True, it's not a straight D&D magic sword, but there's something mystical, or at least mythic, about lightsabers. Each saber reflects its maker. Each has a significance. How many GMs give their Jedi "special" sabers? My GM gave the group's first Jedi Ben Kenobi's saber. (Don't ask!) http://www.terrandesigns.com/mainubb/ubb/smile.gif I gave my first PC jedi her father's saber. I plan on having my jedi build a "master saber," for when she gets really good later on, similar to a katana dragon hilt. That, and the connection with Jedi and the Force. And don't forget, Star Wars is more space opera than sci-fi. At least for me. I really love that aspect of it, the heroism, etc. But I'm a romantic, that way. http://www.terrandesigns.com/mainubb/ubb/smile.gif

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One Ping Only

Kayle Skolaris
5 May 2000, 11:14 PM
Lightsabres are TECHNOLOGICAL ITEMS. Nothing more. Cars don't have a life, they have superior parts and equipment. Katanas aren't magical, they're simply rare and hard to make. Ping makes the comment that Star Wars is more Space Opera than Sci-Fi. That is a statement based on a flawed understanding of what Space Opera is. Space Opera is a SUBGENRE of Sci-Fi. Just like Cyberpunk and Hard Sci-Fi. Being Space Opera merely means that it's a certain KIND of science fiction.

Grimace
5 May 2000, 11:18 PM
Lightsabers are not magical, however they are rather rare and are known only to a select few.

It's mentioned in the Star Wars Sourcebook, under the lightsaber section, that knowledge of building a lightsaber was a closely guarded secret held by the Jedi. While others might be able to produce something similar, it will not last as long or be reliable as one made by a Jedi.

As to their difficulty in use, imagine fighting someone with a flashlight, where every time the beam of light touched something stout, it offered resistance. Imagine fighting someone like this. It would be very easy to accidently sweep the "beam" across your leg or some other "painful" place. Since the Jedi can create such a weapon, they are better trained to operate it as well. Therefore, they are the only ones that should have the skill to use one effectively. This ability certainly doesn't fall under the normal skill of armed combat.

I keep the occurence of lightsabers a VERY rare thing in my game...with an air of "myth and mystery" about them. Not everyone and their brother should be able to use them effectively, and even fewer should be able to build them.

Evil Steve
6 May 2000, 04:29 AM
I'm in the "Lightsabres are Technology" camp on this one, as far as the nature of them goes. Personally, I feel that the only comparable item in our world is the 427 S/C Cobra. What that car does to people is creepy. Men forget their wives when this car is around (I've confirmed this by speaking with the wife of someone who owned one). Like Lightsabres, the Cobra is surrounded by story and urban legend. Like the lightsabre, Cobras are (were?) on the cutting edge of design. And remember, Lightsabres were once common in the Galaxy (according to Ben)

As for why Lightsabres get their own skill, I look at it as a design flaw of a simple system, a line had to be drawn somewhere. Personally, the only person who could know for certain is the person who originally came up with that rule in 1st ed.

If someone has a better idea, that doesn't alter the system too much, please share.

barna284
6 May 2000, 06:45 AM
Using a LS is VERY different from any other melee weapon. It has no MASS, for one thing, so even a master swordsman would have a hard time not slicing himself in half when using one.

Puterdragon
7 May 2000, 04:01 PM
First of all, I think there is a very big difference between not having mass and having very little mass. If a lightsabre had no mass it wouldn't exist. (I'm not a physicist but that's the way I understand it) Now, as to it not having any resistance when it's swung, that's bunk. It may have very, very little resistance, but the fact that it can bounce off of something (vaders armor) without passing instantly through it means that it causes resistance. Now, if the definition of a melee weapon is a hilt/handle, plus a striking surface, a lightsaber qualifies. It has a handle and the striking surface, ethereal as it may be exists. It has mass, it is affected my air resistance. These factors may be small but they exist. As for using the lightsabre skill as a GM control factor it shouldn't be necessary. I think that since every melee weapon is different, maybe it would be necessary to REQUIRE players to specialize. Your right, it doesn't make sense for the average thug to be able to pick up a lightsabre and kick but, but that's no more absurd than him picking up a quarterstaff if he's never seen one and winning ia fight. Maybe there should be some system to penalize melee users if they aren't familiar with a particular weapon. I don't know.

Jedi_Shadow
7 May 2000, 05:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana">quote:</font><HR>Maybe there should be some system to penalize melee users if they aren't familiar with a particular weapon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The answer to that may lie in the 2nd R&E rulebook itself.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana">quote:</font><HR>Some very specialized vehicles will have an "unskilled penalty" indicated: anyone piloting the vehicle without the correct specialization suffers the penalty indicated.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Granted, that's for vehicles, but I think it could crossover to weapons. So if you really hate the separate skills, maybe you could say that yes, Lightsaber would be a specialization under Melee Weapons, but it has an unskilled penalty tacked on. Perhaps -3D is sufficient? Or do you see more being taken away?

Iris
7 May 2000, 08:52 PM
I think one of the reasons the Lightsabre skill is separate from Melee Weapon and/or a Melee:Lightsabre specialization is to enforce the diffculty with the weapon and provide a balance to the POWER of the weapon itself.

If someone happend to aquire a Lightsabre and has a high Melee skill, it removes some of the danger of using the weapon and doesn't take the uniqueness of the weapon's use into consideration. Wielding a lightsabre is not the same as wielding a vibro-whatever just like wielding a 2-handed sword is different from wielding a shortsword in AD&D. The styles are DIFFERENT because of the inherent dangers involved.

Now, as for the weapon itself, yes, it's a piece of Technology that, historically, has been solely associated with the Jedi and described as the "Mark of a Jedi". IMO few, if any, non-Jedi carried a lightsabre. However, those who have built their own Lightsabre, which has been refered to as a symbol of nearing the completion of your training (Vader's comment to Luke re: his newly constructed lightsabre), would be more "in tune" with the weapon since they would be intimately familiar with it's nuances, weight, and other unquie factors. (One could equate this level of familiarity of someone who's used one weapon (Han and his Blaster) for an exteded period of time.)

But, to come back to the original question of why a separte skill instead of Melee... my belief is mainly for Game Balance so someone with a Melee skill cannot just pick up a lightsabre and wield it with deadly acuracy with no training.

Nathan
8 May 2000, 06:07 AM
I think the reason for Lightsabers being a seperate skill is because of their rareness, and the Force skill, nothing else. You see, what if the Force skill said "add your sense dice to your melee combat skill." People would argue that you could use vibroblades with Lightsaber Combat!
Also, let's say a guy has gone through dozens of adventures, using a Vibroblade and occaisonally a Vibroaxe. His melee combat skill is something like 8D. Suddenly he picks up a lightsaber, and he's great at it!
I think the sheer rareness makes it hard to use. It is an odd weapon, after all, with a nearly massless blade, no measurable resistance, and is sharper than anything.
Likewise, Bowcasters is a seperate skill because they're so rare. If your character was an archer with a Bow of 8D, he wouldn't really know how to operate a bowcaster, would he? Yes, he coudl make it fire, but not a 8D.
Just my two cents.

Jedi_Shadow
8 May 2000, 07:09 AM
That's probably why there should be unskilled penalties! The PC with 8D Melee Combat picks up a lightsaber and can only use 4 or 5 of his 8 dice. Am I wrong in thinking this might be a good idea?

Puterdragon
8 May 2000, 07:21 AM
I think that's a good compromise, Shadow. I do want to account for the rareness of lightsabres, but don't think it should be a seperate skill. That should probably work. Now on the topic of the Force power Lightsabre Combat, I don't have my book right in front of me, but WHY is there a force power inextricably linked to lightsabres. In my campaign I have a player who has a force-using non-jedi, kinda like the Dathomir witches. Her society is very low-tech and part of the initiation into the witch-hood is to carvew one's own quarter staff. It has to be hand picked wood and the initiate has to do all the carving herself. She inscribes mystic symbols and becomes very, VERY attached to that particular staff. I thought that perhaps in that instance someone could learn a "Staff combat" Force power. If the lightsaber isn't a mystical object, what makes the Force Power work? And why is it specifically for lightsabres?

Ronin
9 May 2000, 02:22 AM
A LS's blade IS massless: it consists of light, electric and magnetic fields, nothing more, no mass. I do remember reading somewhere that the fields do cause a force making the LS difficult to handle in addition to the massless blade, this EM force/torque would make it very different to handle compared to a normal sword (try moving a spinning wheel held between your hands and held out at full reach, you'll notice the gyroscopic effect). [Actually the way QGJ and OWK spin their LS's around their hands in EP I would be 'near impossible' to do without the momentum of a solid blade....]

Nathan
9 May 2000, 05:18 AM
Just nit-picking a little, Ronin, but light, electricity, and magnetic fields DO have mass. It's almost imeasureable, of course, but it's there.

As for the Lightsaber skill: Here's an idea: The Melee combat skill is to strike and parry with weapons. Right? Right!(plus all that stuff about not hurting yourself, etc.) The lightsaber skill incorporates the above PLUS the technique of parrying blaster bolts and using the Force. This makes sense, right? In this case, I would only allow Force-sensitive people to learn the Lightsaber skill. Of course, someone with melee skill could use a lightsaber, but at something like -3D penalty and could never block blaster bolts.
So in my reasoning, Lightsaber skill incorporates a little latent Force skill, that, combined with Lightsaber combat, gives you the ability to parry projectiles.
Also, don't forget that with the lightsaber skill, you can both Parry AND strike! You can't do that with melee weapons; you need two skills. So Lightsaber is actually cheaper than taking two seperate specializations! (Example: Improving Melee Combat:lightsaber and Melee Combat Parry:lightsaber from 5D to 5D+1 costs a total of 6 CPs.(3 each) But improving Lightsaber from 5D to 5D+1 costs only 5 CPs.)

Also, it's just easier to use a single skill for striking and parrying. Would you like it if they had seperate skills like: Starfighter Piloting and Starfighter Dodging?
Anyway, just adding my thoughts.

ALFRED_THE_EWOK
9 May 2000, 07:14 PM
Even if it doesn't make much sense that it has it's own skill it helps to balance the game out, so I don't complain.

Puterdragon
9 May 2000, 08:50 PM
My understanding was that the blade was made of some kind of plasma loop. How else does it melt through stuff? Anyway, I continue to disregard the idea that it's TOO powerful for regular characters. In my opinion it's MY resposibility to make sure there's game balance. It's MY job as GM to make sure your everyday joe DOESN'T get his hands on a lightsabre. I don't need a seperate skill to make sure he can't use it. I'll just make sure he doesn't get a hold of it. No flames or anything, I just think that maybe I'm arguing from a more GM-Control oriented view point.

Ronin
10 May 2000, 02:27 AM
Light = photons = ZERO REST MASS,
E&M fields: what, you're suggesting electron's mass, right? I don't have my table of constants to hand but the mass is something times ten to the minus 'alot'! [I'll edit in the figures later].
A LS blade IS massless, at the very least compared to a blade such as a Katana or Wakizachi.
ps. there's no flames comming off this post http://www.terrandesigns.com/mainubb/ubb/wink.gif

Kayle Skolaris
10 May 2000, 09:39 AM
I'm with the big scaly computer.... Lightsabres are rare, highly illegal, and hard to use. Therefore most sane PCs won't even bother. I adhere to the little sidenote in Fragments From The Rim that possession of one in the Imperial Era or in Imperial Space is grounds for an instant 25,000 credit bounty and ENFORCE THAT BOUNTY TO THE LETTER! Now if you want to come up with some silly pseudo-mystical reasons why normal people can't use Lightsabres, that's your game. But the above has generally been all I've needed to keep them under control and the one time the entire party had lightsabres, it didn't "unbalance" anything.

barna284
10 May 2000, 04:39 PM
Sorry to correct you Puterdragon, Lightsabers have no mass and they do exist. They are pure energy (that's at least how Lucas created it). There are a few dozen theories about what a Lightsaber is, In my next post I will post the URL of a site which is the ULTIMATE source for all lightsabers. You can find different theories there.

Nathan
10 May 2000, 08:33 PM
No, I guess it's composition doesn't really matter. But anyway, a Lightsaber's blade DOES have mass; as Ronin pionted out, the mass of the electrons would give it some. Of course, that's so incredibly anal-retentive of me I'll admit that for all PRACTICAL purposes, a lightsaber blade has no mass.

By the way, I wonder what people would prefer - a seperate lightsaber skill or just the Melee Combat and Melee Parry Skills?

Puterdragon
11 May 2000, 07:48 AM
Well, I'll wait for the post, but if you say there are several theories, how can you make a statement like:

"Sorry to correct you Puterdragon, Lightsabers have no mass and they do exist. They are pure energy (that's at least how Lucas created it)."

Anyway, a Lightsabre's composition isn't really germaine to this discussion is it?

Ronin
11 May 2000, 10:43 AM
The mass of an electron is 9.109exp-31kg!!!! And a LS blade DOES NOT consist of just electrons, it's suposedly predominantly laserlight.
Talk about analy retentive! You need to see a proctologist! (only joking mate! lets agree to disagree?) http://www.terrandesigns.com/mainubb/ubb/smile.gif

Nathan
11 May 2000, 12:00 PM
Yes, let's agree to disagree, and put all this behind us. We're both right http://www.terrandesigns.com/mainubb/ubb/wink.gif

Corr Terek
12 May 2000, 08:49 PM
I beg to differ on some comments made in this thread.

(1) A lightsaber is NOT made of light, and may not be composed of pure energy either.
(2) There will be resistance to a lightsaber blade when it cuts something. It all depends on how dense the material being cut is.
(3) Therefore, Lightsaber Combat would be more likely to be an Advanced skill instead of its own, because it really just takes some practice to get used to the mass-lessness of the blade.

If you wonder where I came up with such interesting (or goofy, your choice) ideas, check out this site: http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres.htm

Having said all I have to say, I am now ready for any comments, hate mail, death threats, etc.

ALFRED_THE_EWOK
13 May 2000, 09:58 AM
Don't know if anyone still reads this thread, but lightsabers maybe do have a small insignificant amount of mass or something because they make shadows. Just my two credits.

Innst Lo Bi
13 May 2000, 08:32 PM
I like the idea of lightsaber being an advanced skill becuase what ever makes a lightsaber work and however heavy it is, you still melee with it... Hmmm I shall have a think about that.

John
14 May 2000, 03:44 AM
Sabres:

...hard to use...

I hope you guys mean that you don't have a certain "feel" of the blade and hit your self very fast.
Beside the weight, I think it is not very differend from useing a normal sword.

John
14 May 2000, 12:10 PM
eum...
I didn't meant that it SHOULDN'T be a sepperate skill.
It is oke the way it is now.

But that's just me.

Puterdragon
15 May 2000, 07:53 AM
Woo Hoo! A topic of mine has made it to 2 pages!!! HE HE HE! Anyway, I get the feeling that everyone has gotten tired of this topic, so I'll just say that in my HUMBLE opinion, a melee weapon, regardless of weight or composition belongs in the melee weapon skill category. In any case thanks for all the input folks!

Arbitan
24 May 2000, 03:09 AM
Hmmm, not sure if all has been said but I'm new here, so maybe you all wouldn't mind a fresh view...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana">quote:</font><HR>
swinging a club, stabbing with a dagger, fighting with a quarter staff and fencing are all VERY different, yet THEY all fall under the same skill. And as for complexity, if you've ever seen an Olympic-quality fencing match, I'd like to think that it would be just as complex as a lightsaber battle. Don't just say it's too complex...tell me WHY?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's been my experience that all this falls on the GM. If you want to run highly specialized games, then give penalties for generalization. Make characters specialize If someone has a melee weapons skill and they pick up a vibro-ax off of an NPC, give them a -2D or so to their roll to use it. Apply this rule to all PCs. If the character has vibro-ax as a specialization, then he gains no penalty. I think this is an excellent way to balance out the "I can use 'em all" characters and the "I've used this weapon all my life and now you will die from it" characters. Characters who specialize in one weapon will be very proficient in that weapon, but only somewhat familiar w/ other melee weapons.

As far as why lightsaber has it's own skill, Here's some stuff to think about.

1) I know it's been stated, but look at it like this...it has no air resistance when you swing it. (forget mass) There's a rule that says if you miss the difficulty by more than 10 you hit yourself. This rule exists because of non-Jedi and novices trying to do things they shouldn't. The weapon, by design is different to wield.

2) The lightsaber (in Ep IV timeframe) is a forgotten technology. No one has seen or used one in a loooooong time. So no one will be able to just pick one up and use it. (Roll knowledge to turn it on, then roll at -1D to make sure it's pointed the right way when they switch it on.)

(Ancient or rare technology, by definition uses a different skill. Archaic Guns anyone?)

BTW, I have had non-Jedi PCs who had lightsabers. They were usually people who stumbled across one or found an old tomb or something. Anyway, they train and become proficient (Double training time, or treat Lightsaber as an (A) skill for non-Jedi. But they still are no match for a Jedi.

3) Jedi are trained to use the force in defense. The skill name Melee Weapon suggests fighting, the lightsaber is not a tool of fighting, it is a means to stop combat. (Come on, you whip out a lightsaber and how many people are gonna still want to fight. NPCs are usually intimidated by myth alone.) As stated before, every Jedi makes their own lightsaber. They become close to it spiritually. (I know several Jedi PCs who could take the Pepsi challenge with their lightsabers and come out of it with their own.) They know it's hum, how bright it is, how the handle feels, etc. The lightsaber becomes a channel for the Jedi's powers, hence...

4) Lightsaber Combat. In extreme circumstances, a Jedi must fight. They tune into their opponent and dull their surroundings. They let the force flow through them and their lightsaber. (Ever heard of a Jedi using Lightsaber Combat on a vibro-dagger....didn't think so. http://www.terrandesigns.com/mainubb/ubb/wink.gif) They simply know their lightsaber, and can be one with it.

One other thing I want to touch on is the whole technology vs mystical sub-thread here...

Look at holocrons. If a "Gatekeeper" of sorts can be put into a holocron, then why not have the same thing with a lightsaber. I'm not saying make it a holocron, but it could have a personality. Personality goes a long way. http://www.terrandesigns.com/mainubb/ubb/wink.gif

Arbitan



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"We are tired of serving their weakness, and will work toward our own ends from now on. The Sith Brotherhood controls the galaxy." -Exar Kun

Ronin
24 May 2000, 09:32 AM
Nice thoughts Arbitan.....a sabre with attitude/personality's interesting. Instead of a Holocron-style contained personality it could be a [admittedly very small] droid-brain (use 'ancient tech.' as the excu--erm, reason for it's compactness!).

Ronin
24 May 2000, 12:10 PM
If we want to be picky: using a sword is very different to a longpole or nunchakus, or a spear, or http://www.terrandesigns.com/mainubb/ubb/wink.gif a broken whisky bottle, thus you could demand a different skill for each. A more 'friendly' system would be: when picking Melee Combat you choose a 'primary' weapon and suffer a +1 difficulty level penalty on the use of other weapons. Or you could collect all weapons of one 'type' (eg. those that slash, those that bash and those that stab) and have those 3 classes of weapon. Of course some weapons would be capable of making more than one type of attack.....just a suggestion http://www.terrandesigns.com/mainubb/ubb/smile.gif

Puterdragon
24 May 2000, 09:04 PM
Well that comes back to my original point. I'm for rules simplicity wherever possible so I say, all melee weapons use the melee combat and parrying skills. Regarless of size or composition.

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There IS no spoon

Zak'irek
24 May 2000, 09:41 PM
I like what Ronin and Arbitan have going there. A sentient lightsaber. Much like the magical blades in thousands of D&D campaigns and novels. Of course there would be no way for the light saber to communicate through the force, but it could very well speak aloud as a holocron does.

Arbitan
25 May 2000, 04:20 PM
Thanks guys! I'm glad you like some of my ideas. http://www.terrandesigns.com/mainubb/ubb/smile.gif

Just a quick chime in on the lightsaber thing again. http://www.terrandesigns.com/mainubb/ubb/wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana">quote:</font><HR>I say, all melee weapons use the melee combat and parrying skills. Regarless of size or composition.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's fine. But you must look at the fact that the lightsaber is not a melee weapon. It is an ancient Jedi weapon. Joe Bob PC has most likely never seen one before, so he doesn't know how to use it.

It is an arcane technology and an unknown tool, hence it's own skill.

Examples...
Archaic Guns
Firearms
Blaster
Blast-Rifle
Pulse Wave Weapons

All are weapons from different eras, they all have their own skill.

Arbitan


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"We are tired of serving their weakness, and will work toward our own ends from now on. The Sith Brotherhood controls the galaxy." -Exar Kun

Ronin
26 May 2000, 09:35 AM
On the droid-brained-Lightsabre: anyone cooked up any stats or quirky-personalities yet?

Jon Starlighter
26 May 2000, 12:41 PM
Arbitan:
"They tune into their opponent and dull their surroundings."

Don't take that phrase too litteraly. You must keep your mind on your surroundings! (But the greatest past of your concentraition must be focused on your opponent.)

Zak'irek
26 May 2000, 07:11 PM
If I was to give one to my Pc, it would have to be extremely sarcastic and have a voice like John Cleise. If you think about it though a Jedi whose "essence" was trapped in a lightsaber instead of the holocron it was probably meant to be in, they would probably be quite sarcastic.

I could hear it now: "what do you think you are doing!! You will never be a Jedi if you hold me like that!!! OHHHH very nice, I've never seen anyone hit the branch of a tree with as much pazaz."

[This message has been edited by Zak'irek (edited 26 May 2000).]

barna284
27 May 2000, 06:22 AM
I think I would use a mystic approach. Like, foe example, the character is about to be wacked in some way (and his saber has been taken away) and the thing suddenly lies to his hand, just in time to deflect the 3 shots aimed at thing. Things like that. Another example; the character is about to strike a clad stranger ho is really a friend, but the lightsaber refuses.

Zak'irek
28 May 2000, 08:23 PM
But how is the lightsaber going to do all of these things? The force wouldn't actually give the inanimate object any power over it. It would be like a holocron, an electronic teaching aid. It would possibly be able to talk but I doubt that it could manipulate the force.

In your own campaign however you could make it do what you wanted.

Ronin
29 May 2000, 09:22 AM
As suggested: the 'personality' could be from a holocron or a droid-brain. Admittedly it couldn't manipulate the force but it could turn off the blade if it doesn't want you to him someone.
Imagine you're a Light Jedi who got his Lightsabre by killing a Dark Jedi, and then you find out the lightsabre has an evil personality, forever trying to corrupt you and turning itself on at inopportune moments!
The situation is even worse in reverse: a Dark Jedi weilding a goodie-goodie Sabre which turns itself off whenever you go to cutdown an innocent.......

Kayle Skolaris
7 September 2004, 11:21 PM
I feel this argument needs some more arguing. Therefore...

BUMP OF THREAD RESURRECTION