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gmjabreson
26 September 2006, 05:02 AM
I was unable to sleep last night, and for some reason this popped into my head....

What if Princess Leia never shot that Stormtrooper onboard the Tantive 4? I mean, if she hadn't, I think her bluff would have been more convincing against Vader. If she would have been found unarmed and totally willing, then how could she be a rebel.
It would have been easier to "distance" herself from the activity of the crew, and just say to Vader "I have no idea what your talking about."

Has anyone else thought about this, or am I just losing my mind?

Ronin
26 September 2006, 05:51 AM
Personally I didn't see that one shot as the entire evidence against her. I've always seen her as a bit of an enemy-of-the-Empire even pre-Episode 4 (perhaps just my image of her character), and her being suspected of stealing the DS plans (or conspiring with the thieves) was simply the last straw, which let Vader finally detain her.
Perhaps the Empire had been trying to pin rebel-activities/sympathies on her for a long time...
That's how I've always seen it, anyway. :)

boccelounge
26 September 2006, 08:43 AM
As I recall, the radio dramatization of ANH has an earlier scene where the Princess and Captain Antilles are caught by Vader in a restricted area on some planet that's a Rebel hotbed (or something to that effect). Vader is very close to arresting her then, and it's made quite clear that he knows she's a Rebel sympathizer. By the time he catches up with her on the Tantive, the implication is that he's got enough evidence to detain her.


And, as a side note, an old issue of Dark Horse Comic's Star Wars Tales (#9 or 10, IIRC) has a cool short story called "Trooper," told from the point of view of the guy Leia shoots. It's written by Garth Ennis, who's (IMO) the best current "war story" comic writer... the story is in the 3rd volume of the collected trade-paperbacks.

Kalechaoslord
26 September 2006, 11:06 AM
I agree that they probably suspected her before anyway. Vaders line 'you wernt on any diplomatic mission this time. AND transmissions were sent to the ship by rebel spys' (my caps) suggest that she had used diplomatic immunity or other covers before but now they had incotrovertable proof.

Shooting the stomie probably didnt make much difference. They already ran from the destroyer and had to be damaged before they would stop.
Any way, what do you do when a bunch of armed thugs invade your ship and shoot at your crew? Shoot back of course ! It was just the troopers bad luck to be shot at by a main charicter ':D

gmjabreson
26 September 2006, 12:04 PM
she used her diplomatic status to conduct "mercy" missions. It was inside the radio dramatizations, I used to have a copy, that it was on Ralltiir where she smuggled wounded troops out from under Vader's nose. Yes Captain Antilles was driving the speeder.
The way I read it was that they rubbed Vader the wrong way. It seemed to Vader that everywhere he went to conduct operations against supposedly Rebellious planets she showed up soon behind him.
He still didn't have any physical proof that she was a rebel. She was basically guilty by association and fingered by the Imperial Spy on board that placed the homing beacon Devastator followed to Tatooine.

boccelounge
26 September 2006, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by gmjabreson
she used her diplomatic status to conduct "mercy" missions. It was inside the radio dramatizations, I used to have a copy, that it was on Ralltiir where she smuggled wounded troops out from under Vader's nose. Yes Captain Antilles was driving the speeder.
The way I read it was that they rubbed Vader the wrong way. It seemed to Vader that everywhere he went to conduct operations against supposedly Rebellious planets she showed up soon behind him.
He still didn't have any physical proof that she was a rebel. She was basically guilty by association and fingered by the Imperial Spy on board that placed the homing beacon Devastator followed to Tatooine.
Uh... I pretty much agree with you... but if you knew all that, why ask the original question of this thread in the first place? :?


Also, I think it's interesting to note that the radio play (even more than the film) makes it clear that even Darth Vader, big bad Dark Lord of the Sith and personal agent to the Galactic Emperor, is still bound by the rule of law, to some extent. That is, he has to have some justification for detaining a high-ranking Senator.

Of course, this changes somewhat during the course of the film: TARKIN: The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.

gmjabreson
26 September 2006, 02:48 PM
I just think that the majority of the doubt was lifted when she shot the stormtrooper. If she hadn't, and just went along the lines of ignorance, then what could Vader have held her on?

Kalechaoslord
26 September 2006, 04:25 PM
He could probably claim to have grounds because they ran from the stardestroyer-that would have given them some leverage as she cant claim she didnt try to evade the authorities. They also shot at it, adding to this.

The fact their spy placed a tracker on her ship is would also cast doubt on any claim she might have.

Also remember they were over tatooine, an outer rim teritory very much dominated by hutts. If he gets asked what happened he can say pritty much what he likes. His crew wouldnt cros him (would you?). If you ask the locals, you wouldnt get much as they have no interest in helping the empire. If it came to it he could caim to have found the corvette dead in space attacked by pirates. Princess what princess? the pirates got her. This would only cause trouble for the hutts and local pirates.

We dont know if it was a black op any way, or how strictly the rules were enforced on vader. As the senate was disolved immiadiatly after I imagine there would be little backlash, Vader probably knew of the emperors thoughts on the senate and how he would react.

Fingon
26 September 2006, 05:26 PM
I just think that the majority of the doubt was lifted when she shot the stormtrooper. If she hadn't, and just went along the lines of ignorance, then what could Vader have held her on?

Interrogate her for information and then kill her (sound familar? :p). I mean, it's not like there is any one around to check Vader and Tarkin besides the Emeperor.

The Admiral
27 September 2006, 01:14 PM
Er, aren't people forgetting that Vader (Oh and of course, we're talking about Darth Vader he's a fragging Sith Lord for criminy,,) immediately tells his commander to send a distress signal and then inform the senate that all aboard were killed. He's not going to ever have to answer questions about Leia; she died in an attack by unknown elements. He never had any intention of doing it 'by-the-book' anymore than he ever has done. If he were accountable in some way it could only be to Bob.
Consider the amount of times he's killed off Imperial spods, what you think this guy spends half his life in the judical core explaining away his actions?


On a side note the fact that Vader orders the passengers brought to him alive would strongly imply that the same state of health was not required of the crew.

Once again, this is Darth Vader he don't need no stinkin' warrant card, he doesn't bring 'em in alive, he's the vessel of wanton destruction unleashed by Bob.

wolverine
3 October 2006, 06:22 AM
If she did not shoot that trooper, would she have been found>??

Kalechaoslord
3 October 2006, 06:37 AM
Thats a better question !

who thinks Mr Vader would use the force to find her?

Or the troopers who were actually looking for passengers?

I forgot :o about the 'all abord were killed' message. That does put a different spin on things. (he thought of my idea a few posts up !!)

Firaxa
3 October 2006, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by wolverine
If she did not shoot that trooper, would she have been found>??

"There's one. Set blasters for stun."

She had all ready been spotted, and it did not seem she had anywhere she could really go, so shooting the trooper did not really accomplish anything for either side. However, from rewatching the film recently, I got the impression she wanted to be caught, in order to give Artoo more time to get away.

wolverine
3 October 2006, 10:47 PM
You would have thought with Vaders order of "I WANT PRISONERS" they would have already been on stun..

gmjabreson
4 October 2006, 12:58 AM
you think they would have, but then again, they wouldn't know if they were gonna run into any more contingients of troops running around. In that case they wouldn't have the blasters set for stun.

I can buy the idea of her showing herself to buy Artoo more time to get away, but she could have done that without shooting the stormtrooper. She could have gave them a pursuit.

The Admiral
4 October 2006, 01:26 AM
He only wants the passengers alive, so the troopers are moving set to kill in case they run into hostile crew.

Thinking about it, leia blasts one trooper then pegs it down a corridor in full view of the other three, she might have been trying to aggrevate the troopers into killing her, thus denying Vader the opportunity to torture the location of the rebel base out of her.

Kalechaoslord
4 October 2006, 06:34 AM
Stormies are suppost to be intimidating, so keeping the guns set to kill makes sense. You wouldent be so afaid if you though they would just stunn you. They probably also expected people to give up on sight, rather than risk them shooting.

Leia didnt have to kill him, but she may have missed her aim. wounding him would have got their attention and slowed them down. She had very bad luck in that trooper being on stun and being a good shot. Any way she probably couldnt have ran far the corvette wasnt that big. She would have ran into more at some point.

gmjabreson
4 October 2006, 06:52 AM
and of course if she would have jumped out in an escape pod, it would have been blasted or tractored back into the star destroyer.