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Kayle Skolaris
8 June 2001, 06:10 PM
Hellbores fire slivers of steel-jacketed cryo-H, a few grams of hydrogen held as a slush at near-absolute zero temperatures. Magnetically accelerated to relativistic speeds by superconducting coils within the weapon's barrel, the cryo-H is compacted and heated until it reaches fusion temperatures. The devastating effect of the hellbore is the natural outcome of shooting at a target with tiny pieces of burning star traveling at near-light velocities. Damage, measured at several megatons/second, is caused both by fusion effects and by the release of considerable kinetic energy at impact.



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What sort of damage do you figure the above weapon would inflict in D6 Star Wars terms?

Grimace
9 June 2001, 12:30 PM
8D capital scale

Comments: All that technobabble is irrelevant, as the damage of something fancy sounding is directly proportional to the resist/shielding of something else that sounds fancy. That is, if you make a shielding system sound equally as fancy, then this weapon isn't so all-powerful sounding.

So, I view this as a capital scale weapon, causing plasma heat and kinetic energy damage. Thus, I'd give it a medium-high Turbolaser classification type of damage.

Kayle Skolaris
9 June 2001, 03:40 PM
Actually the term "technobabble" is misplaced here. Technobabble refers to pseudo-scientific terminology that has no meaning and never could have a meaning.

The concepts behind the Hellbore, while the actual weapon does not exist, are sound and scientifically backed. Don't confuse complex scientific explanations for complex pseudo-scientific explanations.

Keaton
9 June 2001, 04:02 PM
Is this a hand weapon or a ship mounted weapon. If it is a hand weapon I would not want to see the kick on it. ;)

I would say 8d capital scale also. But what size power plant would this have? With that sort of nuclear reaction the power plant and mounting system it has would have to be well protected. Not to mention that when you are talking megatons/second, what kind of range does this thing have? Would a ship using it be able to with stand the backwash from the damage that this might inflict?

Just a couple of my stray questions. :D


Keaton

Kayle Skolaris
9 June 2001, 04:09 PM
It's the main gun of a BOLO Mk. XXIV, first introduced by the Human Concordiat in 2962. Weapon load included the main 90cm "Super" Hellbore, eighteen ion bolt infinite repeaters, six 30cm breech-loading mortars, and a vertical launch silo missile system. A Mk. XXIV BOLO unit massed 14,000 tons with a road speed of 80kph and a sprint speed of 148kph.

A good picture of it firing the Hellbore can be found here: http://users.sgi.net/~whkeith/htm/bolo.htm

Keaton
9 June 2001, 04:42 PM
Hmmmm, not bad. Since it is not a ship based weapon, but a ground craft I would say instead of 8d CS, I would give it 10d walker scale. It looks as though it packs quite a punch, so I am sure it could take out a city without much trouble. :D

I wouldn't give it anymore than 12 d on a walker scale though. 10 d I am sure is strong enough.


Keaton

Kayle Skolaris
9 June 2001, 04:45 PM
Late model BOLOs would definitely be in the capital scale. This is a mid-model BOLO. A Mk. XXXIII mounts three 200 centimeter Hellbores each with a range of around 50,000 kilometers. Definitely capital scale!

Keaton
9 June 2001, 07:03 PM
I would go with the 8d capital scale then. It seems to be a pretty good estimation of the possible damage that could be caused, not enough to destroy a planet completely but enough to cause real wide spread damage.


Keaton

Remo Moxey
9 June 2001, 07:15 PM
I've got a buddy you should talk to. You both are WAY into the cutting edge military stuff.......lol.

Anyway, I think 8D cap scale is a little much. 6D cap scale, or you could make it have a slow fire rate (just trying to even the odds for the poor suckers faced with this thing.......lol).

Basically this thing is a power generator with a big gun attached.....lol. The power drain would be horrendous (superconductors and near absolute-zero temps)......lol

sithson
9 June 2001, 07:24 PM
Okay er um question? Since "Captial Scale" damage most people tend to think .. okay that's not going to hurt the planet, right?
BUT what are the actuall "Body Strength" of a planet? Death Star Scale, right? Well, you do know that going up from captial scale, to a higher scale is only going to cut down the damage by a lot, right? so a 10D captial scale weapon will be able to inflict what is it? Like the highest you could roll is 10 with the die cap on captial to death star being 1/6. Okay fine, but still.. how tough, is a planet? I know that its said that the entire naval fleet would have to bombard the planet for a long time to blow up a planet... but really... one super stardestoyer with..250 heavy turbolasers Im sure a good chuck of them would be able to land on the planet.. and I wont even think about "combinded" fire since the planet is not going anyplace fast, so all the gunenrs have ample time to fire in one volley at the planet. pluss add all thouse concussion missiles... uh would be equivlenet to ...owch, possibly blowing up the planet in a few shots (even with 1/6 conversion).. thoughts?

Kayle Skolaris
10 June 2001, 06:49 AM
Sithson, using the Revised and Expanded rules, you would subtract 12D from any Capital Scale figure to get a Death Star Scale figure. Thus, everything smaller than an Eclipse-Class Super Star Destroyer and less powerful than a Loronar Planetary Turbolaser CANNOT BE Death Star Scale. Oh, my mistake, one other thing can... The Sun Crusher. And this is a shining example of why the Revised and Expanded rules SUCK!!! By those rules, you would subtract 18D from the Starfighter Scale hull of the Sun Crusher to find its Death Star Scale equivalent. But wait! The Sun Crusher has a Hull Code of 50D!!! That means that even after modification for scale, the Sun Crusher qualifies as 32D Death Star Scale! That's TWICE the full-charge output of a fully functional Death Star's superlaser!!! The second Death Star had a hull/shield code of 18D/3D!!! This is INSANE!!!

Now then, you also asked about how tough a planet is. This will make you look at the Suncrusher and cringe again. A typical habitable planet will have a hull code of between 10D-20D Death Star Scale. That's right, the Sun Crusher is better than 50% tougher than the most structurally sound habitable world. I HATE the Revised and Expanded Scale Rules!!!

:mad:

FULONGAMER
10 June 2001, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Kayle Skolaris
Sithson, using the Revised and Expanded rules, you would subtract 12D from any Capital Scale figure to get a Death Star Scale figure. Thus, everything smaller than an Eclipse-Class Super Star Destroyer and less powerful than a Loronar Planetary Turbolaser CANNOT BE Death Star Scale. Oh, my mistake, one other thing can... The Sun Crusher. And this is a shining example of why the Revised and Expanded rules SUCK!!!
:mad:

No, Kayle, that is a perfect example of why the Sun Crusher sucks.

Before the Wit and Wizdom of KJA, things of DS scale had to be DS scale! Like the Eclipse and friends. That was the point.

A DS scale target ADDS the DS scale difference to it's Hull Roll (and Shield Roll, if any) to resist any lesser scale damage

A DS scale weapon ADDS the DS scale difference to damage any target it hits.

A Lesser target ADDS the DS scale difference to it's dodge against attacks.

Where do you get all this "subtracting"? I know it is basic math, but the approach you are using is what is giving you the headache.


By those rules, you would subtract 18D from the Starfighter Scale hull of the Sun Crusher to find its Death Star Scale equivalent. But wait! The Sun Crusher has a Hull Code of 50D!!!

Not that I defend the STATS of the utimate munchkin, but that is actually backwards. You add the 18D to the DS Damage, and leave the Crusher's Hull alone. But then, it is supposed to be able to survive carport parking in a Sun, and all the G's of a Gas giant. Such psycho stats are why I don't allow drinking at my games, and are inexcuseable, but surely not a valid example of "why Rules suck".

I mean, on another board, you threaten a DS with three kilos of explosive. That is a laugh.

You would add all 24 D of scale difference to the DS hull roll.

Even allowing for a 5D explosive charge, rolling all 6's on damage and all 1's on resistance, at most you get lightly damaged or ionized, and that with what was apparently the absolute perfection of demolition charge placement.

(I know, oyu were exaggerating, but loosen up)

Keaton
10 June 2001, 05:25 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FULONGAMER


Before the Wit and Wizdom of KJA, things of DS scale had to be DS scale! Like the Eclipse and friends. That was the point.




I agree here, before KJA threw the SunCrusher into the existance the Death Star scale did make sense. It seems that KJA had a real bad habit of doing this.

I myself don't worry about using the Death Star scale as I have no DS scale weapons in use in my campaigns. I feel that weapons of that magnitude unbalance my games.

Keaton

Magnus_Rexif
10 June 2001, 07:18 PM
actually if you think about it the suncrusher was not out of scale I believe kja made it so that it was easy to notice the technological edge it had over every thing else.
and yes I did read the book and the machine was a one of a kind prototype that did amazing things and had to be that powerful in hull just to stand up to the damage it's own weapons could inflict.
the only problem I have with it is the 1D of sheilds weg gave it I mean ............WHY??

oh yeah nice to see someone else liking bolos but imho they are too powerful for star wars

Kayle Skolaris
10 June 2001, 07:35 PM
I agree about BOLOs being too powerful for Star Wars, I was just curious about what everyone figured their main guns would do. I firmly believe that a dozen or so Mk. XXXIII BOLO units could hold any planet in the Star Wars galaxy indefinitely so long as no Death Star scale weapons were brought in.

Keaton
10 June 2001, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Magnus_Rexif

the only problem I have with it is the 1D of sheilds weg gave it I mean ............WHY??


Well, the 1d was to keep the paint from getting scratched kinda like a bedliner in a truck. LOL :D


Keaton

Kayle Skolaris
10 June 2001, 08:45 PM
Re-armed with standard proton torpedoes and without the quantum crystalline armor, the Sun Crusher design really isn't that bad of a fighter. The Q-C armor multiplies its base hull code by a factor of 10 so with normal armor it'd still have a hull of 5D, respectable for a snubfighter. Considering how big those damned resonance torpedoes are, you could likely fit two proton torpedoes in for every one resonance torpedo, that's 22 total. It already has respectable speed (Space of 12) and maneuverability (3D+2). Rig the thing with a fire-linking system for the lasers it carries so it doesn't need 5 gunners and you're good to go with an outstanding starfighter. The thing even has a tractor beam projector for some insane reason! Hellfire, here's my production model version...

Craft: Freitek Sun Skimmer-class Heavy Fighter
Type: Long Range Heavy Assault Starfighter
Scale: Starfighter
Length: 13.5 meters
Crew: 1, 1 gunner
Cargo Capacity: 50 Kilograms
Consumables: 1 week
Hyperdrive: x1
Hyperdrive Back-Up: x8
Nav Computer: Yes
Maneuverability: 5D
Space: 12
Atmosphere: 450; 1,300kmh
Hull: 5D
Shields: 2D
Sensors:
Passive: 30/0D
Scan: 40/1D
Search: 60/3D
Focus: 3D+2
Weapons:
5 Laser Cannons (Fire-Linked)
Fire Arc: Turret
Scale: Starfighter
Crew: Gunner
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range:1-5/10/25
Atmosphere Range: 100-500/1/2.5km
Damage: 8D

Long Range Heavy Proton Torpedo Launcher
Fire Arc: Front
Scale: Starfighter
Crew: Pilot
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: 1-5/10/15
Atmosphere Range: 100-500/1/1.5km
Damage: 10D
Ammo: 16

Capsule: Based on the infamous Sun Crusher design, Freitek's Sun Skimmer Long Range Assault Fighter is significantly less intimidating than its predecessor, but still a fearsome opponent. Mounting sturdy hull plating and respectable shields, the Sun Skimmer is quite capable of taking as much punishment as it can dish out. And it can dish out quite a lot! Mounting five laser cannons in a single turret mount, the Sun Skimmer's total laser energy output is a full 33% greater than that of the venerable X-Wing fighter. Along with a single long range, high-yield proton torpedo launcher, this fighter is capable of sustained assaults in even the most hostile of combat environments. A full hyperdrive and navigation computer system enables this craft to quickly and safely make it to any engagement anywhere in the galaxy. The thrust/mass ratio of the engines is on par with the famous A-Wing fighter and the maneuverability is actually 25% superior to that of the already agile A-Wing. While many thought it was a poor idea to co-opt the design of a feared and despised Imperial terror weapon, the original concept was too sound to ignore for the engineers at Freitek. They felt that with the proper modifications, the ship could easily make a name for itself that would set it apart from its Imperial ancestry. Regardless of the politics surrounding the Sun Skimmer, there can be no doubt that it is one of the hottest starfighters on today's paramilitary market!

The Admiral
11 June 2001, 12:57 PM
hee! Things have been getting heated in here, haven't they? :)

Time for another installment in the Admiral's hemicred's worth,,,

On the subject of scales:
Personally, of the three incarnations, I prefer 2nd Ed R&E. That's only because removing the caps made it faster. But, in general, I go with an even simpler modification, based of WHY there are scales at all.

The only reason for scale at all is to reduce the physical number of dice rolled, thus making it faster, and easier. What that means is, if it still works to reduce the dice, due to a scale difference, that's the way to go. The only real problem is when a reduction takes one roll to 1D or below, in which case you have to go up.

Either way, the scales are only a method of book-keeping larger numbers. You could fairly easily convert ereything back to character scale, and never worry about it again, as long as you don't mind rolling tons of dice every time.

Personally, i ditched Walker scale in favour of a mid-range scale between starfighter and capital, made more sense to me, and hasn't, in eight years of gaming, caused a problem. But that's just me. Point being if you dislike a rule, change it. It's your game.

On the subject of the suncrusher;
I dislike this muchkin pile of, er, biologically processed pedigree chum. I dislike it partly because it featured strongly in, IMHO, the worst books ever written, and partly because it's just plain dumb. Ok, so it's coated in armour that cannot be damaged by anything. OK. I'd buy that, just as long as someone could explain how they made the damn thing in the first place. It can survive the interior of a sun, but hit it with a circular saw and it's like a hot knife through butter? C'mon! If someone could explain, also, how the occupants are supposed to survive in a sun, or for that matter, in a death star strike, that'd be handy. The thing's gotta have some parts that aren't made of ubermunchkin industries funky metal. So, you hit it with a death star beam, and everything BUT the bloody alloy are immolated? What's the point? Which also raises the simple solution to the suncrusher;

Announce a CALLED SHOT, blow the bloody doors off. Or the engines. Stick a torpedo through the frelling window. Having an indestructible hull only means you need a little side think.
Grr. Bloody KJA.

On the subject of the Hellbore;

I was tempted, first time I wandered through this thread, to go and do the sums on the weapon. I'm not sure, but I'm fairly certain that it wouldn't have quite so much effect as it sounds. Now, I've not yet gone and done those sums, but a small package travelled at near lightspeed would effectively be a small ball of plasma. When it hit, you'd get, by virtue of applying E+MC2, a certain amount of energy. I'm none too sure that this would be all that much for a relatively small mass.
Now, I haven't done the sums yet, so no need to start defending. Even if it comes out that this has about as much punch as a normal tank round, it doesn't matter, it's a game, and it's your game, so if you want it to do 8D Capital, then damn well have it do 8D capital, and if people get uppity, well, they can have it their way in their games. :-) Heck, if you fire the shell in H-Space, who knows what could happen?

Chris Curtis
11 June 2001, 03:02 PM
Well, being the engineering type that I am, I went ahead and ran some of the numbers that The Admiral mentioned. If you don't care anything about numbers, skip to the bottom.

Today we'll be comparing the Hellbore to a typical 120mm tank round (note that despite a detailed search, I was unable to find a listing for the "typical" mass for a 120mm round of ammunition. If you happen to know, speak up!).

First, we'll compare kinetic energy. The relevant formula here are: KE = 0.5*m*(v^2) and E = m*(c^2) [m is mass (kg), v is velocity (m/s) and c is the speed of light (m/s)] We'll also take the velocity of the Hellbore rounds to be 95% c, and it's mass to be 5 grams ("a few grams").

Kinetic Energy

Hellbore:

    KE = 0.5 * 0.005 * (285000000^2) = 2.03E14 Joules

    E = 0.005 * (300000000^2) = 4.5E14 Joules

(Since we're dealing with relativistic velocities here, the second result is probably more reasonable, but either way you get a monstrous number.)

120mm round

    KE = 0.5 * 50 * (1600^2) = 6.4E7 Joules

For reference, one kiloton (i.e. the energy released in the explosion of one thousand tons of TNT) is 4.186E12 Joules. So, it can be seen that a round from the Hellbore delivers roughly two orders of magnitude more energy than a one kiloton explosion - i.e. a Hellbore round delivers about 100 kilotons of energy.

Take that as you will.


It's also interesting to see the momentum firing something like this would create. (Someone mentioned the "kick" of this weapon.) The applicable equation here is: P (momentum) = m * v

Hellbore

    P = 0.005 * 285000000 = 1.425E6 Kg*m/s

120mm round

    P = 50 * 1600 = 0.08E6 kg*m/s

For comparison, if a 1 million kg vehicle (1000 metric ton) fired a Hellbore, it would begin moving backwards at 1.425 m/s, or roughly 3.2 mph.


What this means

A round from the Hellbore is roughly as powerful as a 100 kiloton explosion. The "kick" generated by the weapon is in no way insignificant and would certainly have to be accounted for.


Personally, I'm still wondering what this quote from the original message is supposed to mean: "Damage, measured at several megatons/second". I know Kayle didn't make this up - it is a quote of William H. Keith Jr.'s website. However, I don't see how "megatons/second" can be any measure of damage... <shrug>

The Admiral
11 June 2001, 03:40 PM
Somehow I figured the automated calculation machine would kick in ;-)

Just goes to show, one should always wait for the numbers to roll in before opening one's great gob with a guesstimation.

(The Admiral promptly wanders down to his testing bay, shouting 'Wait! Don't fire that thing in here! Curtis has, er,,, I've come up with some new figures!')

Oh, and, er, wouldn't megatons per second be an accurate description of one hell of a powerful laser firing a continuous stream? If the DS measured it's gun in, say, terawatts per second, then one could maybe say (note that i'm now being extra vague :)) perhaps it would need a one and a half second burst to destroy Alderaan, but only a half second for Yavin? Say? Maybe?

I'll get me coat.

Taubkin
11 June 2001, 04:52 PM
Hey, Chris Curtis,
I think you forgot a little thing: Only 0.7% of the inicial Hydrogen Mass Converts into energy, while the rest converts into Helium. So to make it right since E=mc^2, We have:

E= 0.005*0.007*(300000^2)= 4.5E14*0.007= 3.15E12 Joules

Although I might be mistaken, from what I could dig up the fusion reaction of 5 grams of hidrogen would release an ammount closer to one Kiloton(although that is a very vague term). Perhaps when we read
Damage, measured at several megatons/second The author actually means that the Hydrogen Fusion reaction is not instantaneous, and has a power output of X Watts(Joules per second) Well, Either they miscalculated a lillte bit or the Hydrogen Mass guess was way out.
Since Hydrogen is very lightweight (liquid hydrogen weights 0.07g/cm^3) I don't think the cannon could have shells that weighted much more than that. So I think there is something else we need to know.
D*mn I hate being an engeneer... I could be having dinner by now :D

The Admiral
11 June 2001, 05:34 PM
Damn! Someone's out numbering Calcurtisan! This will be fun!
(The Admiral settles in with popcorn and sprite, waiting for sparks to fly) ;)

Keaton
11 June 2001, 07:04 PM
LOL

LMAO

ROTFLMAO

And here I thought I had way too much time on my hands. ;)

Damn that makes me glad I am an Environmental Engineer, I only have to deal with the clean up. LOL

(sits down beside the Admiral and sips his drink)


Keaton

Chris Curtis
11 June 2001, 08:10 PM
Damn, I knew I shouldn't have opened my big mouth... :) To help my defense, though, I'll point out the fact that (while I did graduate with an mechanical engineering degree) I'm not currently practicing engineering and I haven't even had a class in over a year and a half. Yeah, poor excuse, I know... ;)


Originally posted by Taubkin
I think you forgot a little thing: Only 0.7% of the inicial Hydrogen Mass Converts into energy, while the rest converts into Helium.
Well, I'll take your word on that; I personally don't know. However, I wasn't doing any calculations at all for fusion, I was simply calculating the amount of kinetic energy that would be present when "a few grams" of something (hydrogen, or anything else for that matter) were "accelerated to relativistic speeds".

From what you say, though, only 0.7% of the mass is converted to pure energy (much of it heat, in this case). That means that 99.3% of the mass (instead of 100%) is still there to be accelerated. In other words, there's hardly any difference in the final numbers I came up with.



Although I might be mistaken, from what I could dig up the fusion reaction of 5 grams of hidrogen would release an ammount closer to one Kiloton
That's quite possible. After all, the current weapons only have cores that are a few kilograms, and there output is on the same order of magnitude difference. However, as I said before, I was only doing calculations for the mass being accelerated...

Trying to combine these two things together might get... interesting... simply due to the fact that the whole proposed mechanism (accelerating something to near lightspeed while also causing a fusion reaction) just doesn't sound right to me. But, yes, I know this is science fiction...


I think to really start doing usable calculations for this thing, we'd have to have a better idea of how it really works. When I first read the description Kayle gave, here's how I envisioned it:

You have your linear accelerator and your small "slush" of hydrogen. You take the hydrogen and put it under a monstrous acceleration (note that you'd need insane amounts of power to accelerate even a few grams of something to a relativistic velocity in any kind of reasonable time or distance) and get it up to something approaching light speed (I suggested 95% c before).

In the process of this acceleration, the hydrogen mass will be put under unbelievable pressure and heat. This combination is enough to cause fusion to begin within the hydrogen. Now you've got your miniature sun hurtling toward you at damn near the speed of light. Ouch.

I don't know if this is what was originally intended, but that's how I saw it. Unfortunately, the idea has some pretty decent sized roadblocks in it.


"Realistically", I think something like the following might be better: You have your linear accelerator and a small mass in the form of a pellet. The pellet is dropped into the "breach" of the linear accelerator and held in place by a strong magnetic field. A series of lasers all fire converging on the pellet and heating it until it reaches the state of plasma (fourth state of matter and extremely hot, but not fusion). The plasma ball is then accelerated to a high velocity (several kilometers per second, but nothing near relativistic speeds).

You still get the same basic idea, but it's not quite as far fetched. In fact, something like that should be within the tech level of Star Wars, at least as an advanced research project. The damage isn't quite in the same range, though it should still be quite good, but it also wouldn't have nearly the kick or power consumption (though that would still be rather high).


Anyway, let's not get too wrapped up in doing the calculations for something like this (that goes or myself, too). After all, we know this is "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away"...

Taubkin
12 June 2001, 05:41 AM
Ack, I know... I am too against cepticism in science fiction, but you know how we engeneers are, right?

But I really think nuclear fusion is in the star wars technology range, in fact, we have gone trough quite some improvements over the fusion technology in real life. There are ways of getting hydrogen to fusion in laboratory, and i really think that weapon is pertty good for starwars, considering that it requires a large power output and delivers quite a kick.

So I might risk a conclusion for kayle:

You wanted to see the damage that thing could do in SW based on it's real life technology? Well, there is a kinetick damage of 50 kilotons(since E=mc^2 does not calculate the KE - it's only 0.5*m*v^2) , witch I think could be considered something like a heavy turbolaser(since all the energy is all concentrated in a small point) and the fusion damage that could be an explosion of 1Kiloton. You can check the other post and try using one of the converting charts for the kiloton/megaton/terraton damage...

Taubkin
12 June 2001, 05:46 AM
Anyways, Chris
Since I'm a Chemical engeneer I should have known better, right?:)

Well, I think we should stop for now, because we are taking the fun of this game...;)

Since I'm still in the university, I can gladly take any questions to the student concil for everyone of you. They probably can clear some stuff up...

GreenCape
12 June 2001, 05:56 AM
Sorry to chuck a spanner in the works like this, but isn't what Chris described what your regular blaster does?

Thrawn
12 June 2001, 08:01 AM
There is a problem with linking all five laser on the suncrusher, one of the is situated at the back of the craft, so you could only link 4 of them, and the last one would need to be fire back.

Else I like the stats for a suncrusher without the Q-C armor.

Kayle Skolaris
12 June 2001, 11:45 AM
I'm not sure if this is how it works in all Hellbores, but I know that in at least one model of BOLO a laser array is used to compress a pellet as described above. See, part of the problem of nailing down how a Hellbore works is that most of the writers on the BOLO series aren't scientists and Keith Laumer chose to let a LOT of different writers play in his universe. Everyone from David Drake to Mercedes Lackey to S. M. Stirling. Also, the first books came out in the late 60's, I believe, so what we know now may not have been known then.

Personally, I don't care if a Hellbore is a super-gun in Star Wars or little better than an E-WEB. The books are cool and the concept is nifty. I just wanted to get opinions.

Thrawn, about the Sun Skimmer's laser cannons, the problem is solved by taking the four cannons arrayed around the edges and mounting them into a single emplacement with the fifth gun in the apex turret on top of the fighter. The result looks somewhat like a gatling cannon.

Chris Curtis
12 June 2001, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Kayle Skolaris
in at least one model of BOLO a laser array is used to compress a pellet as described above. See, part of the problem of nailing down how a Hellbore works is that most of the writers on the BOLO series aren't scientists

Personally, I don't care if a Hellbore is a super-gun in Star Wars or little better than an E-WEB. The books are cool and the concept is nifty. I just wanted to get opinions.

Oh, I agree, the concept certainly is "nifty"! :D And you bring up a good point (that I'd considered, but never voiced) about the authors not necessarily having an incredibly strong scientific background.

Still, if the calculations that Taubkin and I did are used, we can at least get an idea of what kind of damage such a weapon might do. ...At least, if we also go take a look at one of the other threads you kindly started around the same time (STATS request. I need die-code equivalents (http://www.holonet-bbs.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3104)).

Our calculations showed that the energy output (i.e. "damage") of one round from the Hellbore should be somewhere in the range of 100 kilotons, or at least on that order of magnitude. In the aforementioned thread, 100 kilotons happens to be one of the damages investigated. The suggested damages were:

5D (starfighter scale), 9D (walker scale), 6D (capital scale), and 10D (starfighter scale)

Somewhere in the range of 5-10D starfighter scale damage is a rough median. So, it's a pretty powerful weapon, but not everly munchkin (unless, of course, it's man portable... ;) )

Anyway, I think I'll (not so) quietly bow out of this discussion now...

louisb
20 August 2004, 04:12 PM
bolos routinley "DUEL" with starships//A mk 23 bolo main armamnet are two 1.75 megaton per second fusion cannons called hellborers . a mk 33 bolo has either three 5 megaton per second hellboresrs and thirty 20 kiloton hellborers or in the hector model 3 6 megaton per second hellborers with thirty 30 kiloton hellborers .

wolfe
2 September 2004, 03:22 AM
lets see,
dueling bolos -well engineers anyway-, scale rants, ubermunkin industries -god this ones a keeper- popcorn and sprite,and production stats for the ubermunch r us starship all in one thread...
the only thing missing now is the banjo boy from deliverance.. yep the folks here have lost their mind.

:D

just popped in to mention you just never know where Kayle is going to toss in stats..

wolfe
2 September 2004, 03:28 AM
lets see,
dueling bolos -well engineers anyway-, scale rants, ubermunkin industries -god this ones a keeper- popcorn and sprite,and production stats for the ubermunch r us starship all in one thread...
the only thing missing now is the banjo boy from deliverance.. yep the folks here have lost their mind.

:D

just popped in to mention you just never know where Kayle is going to toss in stats..

Kayle Skolaris
2 September 2004, 04:02 AM
SQUEEL like a nerf for me, boy! :D