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Krad-edis
1 November 2001, 08:46 AM
I am still preparing a campaign for a time period 800 years after ROTJ (been working on and off on this for a year). I already have the bad guys fleshed out, and have their technology created, but I'm wondering about what sort of changes if really that many will be made to republic ships in the future. (Yes, the Vong lost for this story setting). From looking at the stats for ships from the TOTJ era and ones in classic era, their were some major changes in hyper drives and maneuverability, but that is to be expected in a 5000 year time frame. I know their may be some changes possibly with sensors and a few other things, but how drastic of a change in 800 years? Comments will be very much appreciated.

Donovan Morningfire
1 November 2001, 09:01 AM
They're probably wouldn't be a whole lot. It seems that for the most part Star Wars technology is at its apex.

Maybe Hyperdrives are more efficient (most stock civilian ships now have a x1 hypedrive, and military fighters have a x3/4 or maybe even x1/2). Sublight speeds get bumped up by 1 or 2 (D6) or raised one category (d20)

Up the damage on energy weapons one die or increase the number of shots per power pack by 25% to cover more efficient blasters and such.

If D6, up the Hull/Body codes by about 1D, if d20, probably a 10 to 20% increase, rounded to nearest number divisable by 10 (5 for ground vehicles).

D6 Armor give 'em an extra +2 (not dice) to resist damage; d20 maybe give all armor DR 5. Heck, portable shield generators (ala Droidekas) could be available by that time frame, rendering convential armor totally obsolete.

The lightsaber hasn't seemed to change much as the ages pass, and could already be considered the pinnacle of energy weapons (almost totally efficient with a power cell capable of lasting several months). No need for change, except maybe some enterprising Jedi with a knack for technology found a way to enhance the power cell's longevity even more.

Medical technology may have really improved due to study of some of the Vong's biotech. D6 gives an extra die to First Aid checks, d20 heals one or two extra wounds. (Min 2 if untrained, two extra if used trained.)

This is all of the top of my head, and hope it helps some.

Krad-edis
1 November 2001, 09:05 AM
Donovan Morningfire,

You covered that pretty well, even things that I haven't quite touched down on yet. Thanks.

Dr_Worm
1 November 2001, 09:44 PM
Hey I have a question: Why?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a bad idea, but it seems odd. I mean the whole reason I started to play SW is because it is in the same Galaxy as the Movie heros and bad guys. 800 years that is a long time. After that amount of time passing what is the diffrence between playing SW and playing any other space system.

I really am not doggin your campaign, just looking for a little insight.

As far as tech goes...You could go the other way and have some major galactic crissis happen and the result is that a lot of tech is lost. It could make for a cool campaign to have the Characters investigating lost Tech and civilizations (ones current with the movies). Perhaps they could rediscover things like Repulsor tech, or Droid tech. That could only work if your players are good at not Metagaming.

Emperor Xanderich II
2 November 2001, 05:11 AM
I like Dr_Worm's idea of tech going backwards. Kinda like our Dark Ages.

The characters manage to find a hyperdrive and reach planets once thought as power centres (Coruscant, Sluis Van, Lianna etc) little more than pathetic little worlds ruled by warlords.

Maybe in a horrific revearsal, Tatooine could be come the bright centre of the universe!8o

Krad-edis
2 November 2001, 05:41 AM
Why?

To escape a lot of the crappy EU out there. Books keep coming out with little contradictions here and there, and I just want a Star Wars where I am so far removed from the crap, that I can say certain things are going to happen for sure. 800 years after the Vong, none of it matters. All that matters will be the Republic faced with a new threat, not the Vong again, not a Dark Jedi, not corruption in the government, but in the form of an experiment in technology that goes bad.

Don't get me wrong, some EU books are good, but I am tired of hearing about the Solo boys, and how they are rewarded for stupid actions, and I am tired of Luke, Han, Leia, and the rest of the old people saving the galaxy time after time. It is time to jump ahead and get some new heroes. A thread on this has already sparked my rage on how stupid the SOLO BOYs are.

Getting back to the campaign. I also wanted to introduce technology such as advanced personal shields, and space warp holes. I haven't decided to what degree they will work or how available the technology is.

This is the tip of the iceberg. To put it all together, I want my own Star Wars, with George Lucas concepts but without his, Zahn's, Stackpole's, Salvatore's, or Anderson's characters to set boundaries or irritate me and my players.

Donovan Morningfire
2 November 2001, 06:47 AM
That's a pretty darn good reason for setting a campaign so far ahead in the future Krad. Most folks jump back a few millenia (TotJ era usually) to avoid movie and EU continuity problems. Glad my ideas were some help.

I agree with the Krad's reasons for wanting to run a game set in that time period. It may not be Star Wars as the general populace know it, but it is still Star Wars. I personally don't have that much of a problem with Jacen (but then, I haven't been reading the NJO stuff. Vong concept = ten finger stinker), but I can understand the bit with the older, 'established' characters. And I like the cyclical concept of the 'New' Republic having to once again deal with internal corruption, the very thing that lead to the 'Old' Republic being turned into the Empire. And before anyone complains 'what about history,' remember that the game's been run for a long time with us knowing little to nothing about the Clone Wars, which was a major event.

Krad-edis
2 November 2001, 07:18 AM
In my time frame, 16 year old boys who have a lightsaber duel on board their father's ship will not be considered Jedi Knights like EU declares them as being. Jedi Knights should be wise and have experience to back up their skills, and definitely should be not knights because they are Uncle Luke's golden boys. I only read the first three or four books of the NJO, and it was filled with Jacen and Anakin going against the older heroes warnings, and then Luke had to save them. Is the galaxy that dangerous as Han Solo said it was? I don't think so. Those two are incredibly lucky to be alive based on their stupidity. Their luck defies realistic story telling. Even the older heroes were not that lucky, and had a hard enough time making the right moves.


In my time frame, you may not agree with your master (like Obi-wan with Qui-gon about the training of Anakin), but you certainly don't disobey......if you do, chances are that the thing that the master warned them about will kill the young padawans (or Young Saved By the Bell Jedi Knights).

Sorry for anyone who likes the Young Jedi Series or the Solo boys, but I would like to see a Jedi Order a little less liberal than Lukes. Maybe a Jedi boot camp to drill in respect for those who are in charge and have experience to draw on.

I am just trying to escape the Skywalker legacy which has been screwed up by inconsistancies and bad writing, and that really is the bottom line.

Gabriel
2 November 2001, 10:38 AM
Well, we currently have a campaign set 300 years after ROTJ and here are what our ships can do.

Starfighter
1. Proton torpdoes can now separate and hit three targets at once. Only one roll is required.
2. Ships get an auto lock with their lasers, a +10 on attack (WOTC) or +3D (WEG) - then the pilot or gunner resolves attacks as normal.
3. Shields regenerate at a faster pace. Each round the pilot rolls d100/4 to see how many shield points he or she has gotten back.
4. Ships are obviously faster, now a 0.5 hyperdrive is considered average speed. A fast ship in this timeline is closer to 0.01.
5. Starship weapons can now be fired even faster than before. So a player can choose to fire his ship's blasters in rapid mode, adding 1extra dice (e.g. 4d10*2 becomes 5d10*2 in WOTC -- 4D becomes 5D in WEG) of damage, or in full rapid mode, adding 2 extra dice of damage.

This is all I can remember off the top of my head.

Dr_Worm
2 November 2001, 02:24 PM
That's cool. good reasons. I just didn't read them, and neither did my players. I simply like the pararmeters of "reality" that are set by the system. I still like my idea of going back, kinda like the WoT series, in which we are led to believe that there was once great technology, but now it is lost.

I think I may run with that. Have Jedi Rediscover the Lightsaber? That would be Cool. Maybe even have Jedi be thought of as bad guys (another omage to WoT).

As far as ships go, you might want to take into consideration that everything is realtive. I mean if all ships are now 2D more maneuverable, then they are still the same against each other, you just roll more dice.

Krad-edis
2 November 2001, 03:18 PM
The going backwards instead of forward is an idea, but I have already excepted going forward. Dr. Worm, you mentioned that it may sound odd go forward 800 years....I have found that by playing a game that goes 300 years past the time of Skywalker still cannot escape his influence or the legacy of the Empire completely. You really need a good half a milenium to kind of set the new age. I have a time frame that basically sets up the events up to 800 years after the time of Skywalker. This 800 years has given me a restriction free galaxy, and 500 - 800 years would give you plenty of time to figure out a reason why a Jedi or lightsaber would be forgotten over the centuries to be rediscovered.

I considered your statement you made earlier. Here is a rough idea of what you may want to flesh out. You are right, it could be very interesting and fun.

Perhaps 200 years after Skywalker, a disease that attacked Midichlorian purges a great many of the reassembled Jedi Order? The remaining Jedi are forced to fight an enemy which is surprisingly more deadly than any Sith or Empire, for now the enemy is completely invisible. Over a period of ten years, they are for the most part unsuccessful. Those with low midichlorian counts are only mildly effected by it, while the Jedi react violently to the disease. Their ability to feel the force had been taken away from them. Those who did not die of shock from the experience, either went into a deep state of depression or went insane from their loss. (The disease could also cause incurable mental illness). Jedi who were once the great protectors of the galaxy were now either regarded as fools, or as something that had run out of time. As time went on, the force, its champions, and the lightsabers they used were only things of fantastic tales to tell your children. While some of the more educated beings in the galaxy knew the Jedi were wiped out by a mysterious plague, the vast majority of the people in the galaxy had come to believe that the Jedi were just a myth......until a young man or woman 600 years after the disease struck, discovered that they could move things with their mind, see the past or see the future. What makes them different? Are there any more like them? How can this be? ..........and a quest for knowledge begins......the force and the Jedi possibly rediscovered, or the Sith possibly reborn...who knows...all depends on the PCs and a crafty GM. Sounds kind of like Final Fantasy...

Dr_Worm
3 November 2001, 12:04 PM
Ok I could have som fun with that! I am currently running a campaign, but this one will be next.

I've neve played Final Fantasy, perhaps I should.

I am definately gonne cut and paste that paragraph...thanks pal.

Here's an Idea: How about have the disease cause madness before death. So those that are strong in the force go mad first and that is why the myth of the Jedi is a myth of evil. The ones that are weak enough to not go mad are to weak to fight off the sith and the mad Jedi and flee. Now 500 years after the "Jedi Purge" Hyperdrive is finnally found (or perhaps given by some alien society) and our heros are sent to explore. They happen upon Corruscant (eventually) and discover the last of the hidden Jedi there.

Krad-edis
3 November 2001, 01:33 PM
With so many years removed from Han Solo and Luke, you can do whatever you want. You have plenty of years to play with and can create a very beleiveable time line and story.

Madness and then death.....a good explanation as to why teachings were not passed down.

Final Fantasy III is a great game that poses a with an underlying story of where there were once a plentiful amount of magic users, but technology rose up and people lost faith in magic. Unfortunately, the people who are in control of the machinery are evil, so it is up to the last wielders of magic to save the land....It came out in 1994, and is probably the best RPG video games I've played other than on PC. There is plenty more to the story than just that, but it was a cool concept.

By the way, happy late birthday.

Donovan Morningfire
3 November 2001, 01:56 PM
I too like the idea of a madness-inducing plague that affects Force users only. I don't know if I'll ever go for a future setting (most of my players know that I'm ready, willing and able to tell EU to go fly a kite, other than Zahn's stuff), but it does have potential for a story arc.

Hey Doc, do indeed check out the Final Fantasy games. If you have a Playstation, then my top picks are, in order of preference:

1) Final Fantasy 8: it had some problems, but the story was tight; it seemed more like a movie than video game, and the graphics, especially the CGI stuff, rocked (Rinoa and Quistis are cyber-hotties, and aren't overdone in the physical department; they look healthy and normal. That and Rinoa has an elven-cute face :) )
2) Final Fantasy 9: good story, slick graphics, solid gameplay. The only reason it's not #1 is my enjoyment of FF8, though 9 is a very close second.
3) FF Chronicles, if only for Chrono Trigger, which was one of the best games ever released for the Super Nintendo.
4) FF7: the first FF game on Playstation. You can get it pretty cheap (it's a definite oldy), and while the out-of-combat graphics are cartoony (all the guys have Popeye arms), it plays well and has a pretty solid story.
5) FF Anthology, which has both FF5 (previously unreleased) and FF6 (released as FF3 on the SNES). This one might've ranked higher, but FF5 didn't do much for me, and FF6, while it had a good plot, parts of it seemed too Star Wars derivative (the plot I mean).

You can probably rent them from your local video store. They're worth it, though they might get addicting.

There were a series of FF games done for Gameboy, which I think have been rereleased, but they ranged from eh to good. (FF Adventure was the best, I thought)

Krad-edis
3 November 2001, 02:00 PM
The anthology......neato

I recommend that one big time. Take the classic SNES game, clean it up, and put it on Playstation, and you have the FF3 special edition!

Dr_Worm
3 November 2001, 06:40 PM
No Playstation, just a PC. Are any of them on PC? Oh and sorr this is off topic...you can pm me back if you want.

StClair
3 November 2001, 11:14 PM
Well, there's always an emulator; I recommend ZSNES (http://www.zsnes.com). And then you have to find roms for the games in question. You DO have the original cartridge(s), don't you? ;)

FF6's story and characters can be grafted into a SW game almost whole. I should know, I did it once.

Donovan's suggestions for improved tech modifiers sound about right, though I would dispute that it's because SW tech is already at its apex... certainly computers, etc are much more mature technologies than they are in the real world, but mostly it just seems that the overall rate of technological progress in the SWU is a lot slower, more like ancient times. This is ancient myth and legend dressed up in new clothes, after all.

Kayle Skolaris
4 November 2001, 08:02 AM
My personal campaign is set 75 years after the battle of Endor. On the whole, technology has advanced by about 2D across the board. That is, a modern heavy blaster pistol inflicts 7D damage, modern "standard" body armor is good for 2D/3D protection, and similar stuff... Increase speed increments by 2-4 (I.E., the average Classic Era fighter had a Space of 8-10 and exceptional models had a Space of up to 15-17. Modern fighters average 10-12 with exceptional models going as high as 17-19). Back-up shielding is now standard on everything that uses shields, including fighters (SCREW YOU, VONG ********!!!).


Please keep the language clean. Thanks. Emp.Xan.

loudanddeep
4 November 2001, 09:20 AM
Well, I completly understand the point of the main thread;
to abvoid the stuff you dont like.
There are many things in the EU (and a few in the movies and other books) that I just dont like either;
1 - terrible plot errors
2 - silly character choices
3 - silly technology weapons of mass destruction
4 - silly bad guys
and so on.

What I do in my campaign, is I use the material for what it is; resouce.

If I dont want vong, viola! no vong.
There is not judicial review committe looking at our campaign, so we run it the way we want it.
(I came close to taking out a lot of MonCal stuff until I finally figured out a scenario where a bunch of fisheads could stand up the to the empire and make cap ships...)


GL gave us a great vision.
Unfortunatly he did not think out a lot of the part of that vision, nor did anyone strictly adhere to it either.

That is the role of the GM and the players.

Now, on to the second point, technology.
In most RPG settings with LONG histories (most fantasy and sci fi) technology has to be somewhat stagnant.
Otherwise technology just gets out of control.

Why not say it is the same as current campaign. If everything increased at the same rate, it would be relative, and then you dont have to change anything.

If you want personal shields add them.
What part don't you believe?
wookies and lasers and hyperdrives, or the part about personal shields...

Well, like always my convoluted thougths are rambling...

have fun, but remember, if you dont like it, take it out!

Krad-edis
5 November 2001, 11:08 AM
loudanddeep,

The thought of taking things out that I don't like is well.........exactly what I am doing, except I am not taking anything out at all. I am the committee in making this new era, and I wish to have it original and still be Star Wars. But, I wish to make my intention clear of saying that my players (some of them) like NJO and EU, so I will not just blatantly disregard the Vong, Thrawn, C'boath, Major Tierce, Corran Horn, and some of the better things about the EU and NJO. The main thing is that I want to be removed from it all. 800 years is enough time to do it all in and not ever deny that any of the EU ever existed.

No more quests for Luke's lightsaber after he dies ( I want to be able to look my players in the eye and say: It was in the Historical Jedi Exhibit in the Republic museum up until about 250 years after he passed, and then it went back to the Jedi Temple, however 300 years after that, it was moved to an undisclosed location and has never been heard of since. It has been missing for 200 years at least, and good luck finding something that may be in someone's private collection or somewhere hidden never to be disturbed by anyone ever again)

No more quests to find R2-D2. (His innards have rusted and he is gone being that his is now 900 or so years old, if you want an astromech droid, buy one and upgrade it.)

No more quests to find Lobacca and other relatives of Chewie's (If you do manage to stumble accross them, they will either have been dead for a hundred years or are in a Wookie Retirement Center).

No more quests to find out who Yoda's alien species were (Yoda who? The guy who started the second Jedi Order was Skywalker, who is this Yoda guy?)

I want a clean slate with no comparing of player stats with heroes of the old, yet I don't want to deny that heroes of NJO, the villains of NJO and the all the characters from before existed, just want the memory of them forgotten or deadened so I don't constantly have to tell the players (that I would possibly have to entertain in a campaign of 300 years after ROTJ, in which there still would be hope of finding all four of the irritating side quests above doable) that they are in the wrong campaign. An occasional linking of the two would be fun, but most of the time things of above get out of control and become just ridiculous.

Deathstalker
7 November 2001, 02:16 AM
Well, I hope I'm not too late to offer my opinion, but since no one's gonna stop me, I'll do it anyway. :D

First, let me tell you that I wouldn't want to play in a Star Wars campaign that is so far removed from the movies and the EU. You probably ask why? For me, Star Wars is just not the same without the familiar people and ships running / flying around the galaxy! If I don't want to play Star Wars, I just take another RPG suitable for space opera from my shelf. Fading Suns, Trinity and Metabarons are three of the best examples.

Anyway, enough ranting. You won't force me to play in your campaign, right? ;)

Some (hopefully helpful) suggestions: You don't need to change the rules too drastically because most likely, you won't have to compare the contemporary technology to items from the regular Star Wars era. Just use the stats for your average blaster pistol and think about a fancy new name! Done! You probably could increase the weapon's range or include gadgets like internal fire control and invisible blaster bolts, but that's it!
More damage just leads to stronger armor, which in turn leads to tossing more dice on the table (which only satisfies the Inner Munchkin anyway).

For new and innovative technology, I may point you to some great SF novels: The Reality Dysfunction by british author Peter F. Hamilton has organic starships with artificial consciousness that are mentally bonded to their captains. Also, there's an interesting example for a human culture which is entirely a product of genetic engineering.
Hyperion by Dan Simmons has planets that are connected by gates or portals; even houses with rooms on different worlds. Weird stuff! His Faster-Than-Light drive smashes the crew to goo whenever it is engaged, but that doesn't really matter because they're resurrected when they arrive! Still, it's painful...
Finally, the Dune novels by Frank Herbert contain some pretty amazing stuff, like pilots who move their ships with the awesome power of their minds, or the superhuman combat capabilities of the Fremen tribes.

Enough for now and good luck with your game!

- Deathstalker

Krad-edis
7 November 2001, 05:46 AM
[i]First, let me tell you that I wouldn't want to play in a Star Wars campaign that is so far removed from the movies and the EU. You probably ask why? For me, Star Wars is just not the same without the familiar people and ships running / flying around the galaxy! If I don't want to play Star Wars, I just take another RPG suitable for space opera from my shelf. Fading Suns, Trinity and Metabarons are three of the best examples.

Anyway, enough ranting. You won't force me to play in your campaign, right? ;)[/B]

I don't mind some fresh ideas at any any point in the game and some critisism is just as helpful, however, Metabarons, Trinity, and Fading Suns are not Star Wars, however some of the NJO books in which the familiar characters are either horribly written or killed off is considered Star Wars. Time for an overhaul, one that only removal from the garbage can accomplish. I don't want to play characters this time in a Classic Era campaign in which my players have read every book, fought against every type of classic era NPC, know all of Chewie's relatives, and so on. They know about Thrawn and how his Noghri act. They know about the Vong and have already worked up strategies on how to best them. This new era I'm talking about will still have ships and star battles, lightsabers and Jedi, aliens and droids, just not in the "done to death" sense that everyone has settled for. The best thing about it is that it is unknown to my players. They will have to come up with stategies after they may have already gotten their butts kicked. Now I know that it can be said that "If your players have never encountered the Vong before, the players should pretend to be surprised and not have a clue as to what a amphistaff or crab armor is and what it can do....but they have read the books, and the element of surprised is shot straight to hell. Not this time.....nothing will be familiar to them except that their will be the Sith (or some new form of it). There will be a threat of invasion from an enemy which has been dormant for some time, and there will be many more things to deal with like organized crime such as Crimson Blade....once known as Black Sun......and they will have to do it all at the same time. No, I wouldn't want anyone to be forced into a game like this one. Anyone who wouldn't at least want to try it can I guess settle for a theme and era that has been done before over and over again. At least you know what to expect.

Gabriel
7 November 2001, 06:14 AM
You are right Krad-edis. Like i said above, I have run two consequitive campaigns 300 yrs after ROTJ and they are the best campaigns that we have had so far. You guys are going to have a lot of fun, trust me.

Deathstalker
7 November 2001, 06:38 AM
Well, I guess it depends on how much you already played Star Wars the old-fashioned way. While I play RPG's for almost ten years now, I gamemastered only two SW campaigns in all this time. This means the era of the movies and novels is not done to death with our group, in fact, we have a blast right now to play with all those clichés! Also, our group never had the idea to search for Artoo or Luke's lightsaber - just for the record.

I just wanted to say in my earlier post that our group chooses another game if we want something more original. When we play Star Wars, everyone expects and enjoys the simple black-and-white universe from the movies. Now you know where I'm coming from.

I didn't want to offend you, I merely intended to suggest that looking at other games might save you much work and effort. :)

- Deathstalker

Krad-edis
7 November 2001, 07:19 AM
The movies are great, unfortunately, no PC in the realm of Classical Era can be Anakin Skywalker, Han Solo, Obi-wan or Luke....you have to basically understand that you are playing in the backdrop while the Classic Era heroes have center stage. The epic heroes are already there. That is all the more reason to leave that aspect and recreate a galaxy, a Star Wars galaxy in which you or the NPCs are realistically the epic heroes. Unless you wish to be one of Amidala's handmaidens, a Stormtrooper, or one of the countless technicians aboard a Rebel Mon Cal Cruiser, you will never even be close to the characters you are familiar with, and if you are, it is only for a few seconds by performing such tasks as "fix the Queen's hair", or "guard this cell door, Lord Vader is on board", or "tighten this coupler, for Wedge Antilles is going to test fly this old X-wing." You are restricted to being "small time". I've played this game and GM'd for a long time....at least 5 or 6 years for playing and about 4 for Gming. I've played a 300 year after the ROTJ session like Gabriel is doing now, and it was one of the best games I ever ran. Lasted about nine months with anywhere from 5 to 8 players at a time. In the nine months of playing, some of my players wanted to try and get a hold of things and people from the classic era, kind like an antique hunt. There was off time in the game in between galactic threats, and that is how my players wanted to spend it. I came up with finding things that pertained more on a personal level to their characters which they liked even more. I never said that this stuff happened in your campaigns, and I wasn't offended by your comments. If I wanted to be offended or offend someone, I would work more than 40 hours a week. I'm just trying to express the idea that NJO, Classic Era, Prequel Era, TOTJ....even though you guys are having a good time (which is great, because that is what it is all about), the stage is set in your era. Whether you are level 20 in D20 or have 15D in every skill for D6, you still are no where mentioned in the era you are in. This era gives my players the opportunity to be the epic heroes and actually have the fate of the Republic in their hands, instead of being...small time. Nothing like stealing a the plans for the death star (a PC of mine did this in one of my campaigns, in this campaign he supposedly beat Kyle Katarn to the punch) for Leia, and have all the credit go to Luke Skywalker for blowing it up to make you want to try something else. My players don't want to be Han Solo's towel boy or Luke Skywalker's bat boy....they want to be Han Solo or Luke Skywalker....eventually like them or just as great with just as much meaning.

Gabriel
7 November 2001, 07:27 AM
The movies are great, unfortunately, no PC in the realm of Classical Era can be Anakin Skywalker, Han Solo, Obi-wan or Luke....you have to basically understand that you are playing in the backdrop while the Classic Era heroes have center stage

Not necessarily. One of the most fun times we ever had was an "Infinities" scenario, if you will. The PC's became the main heroes in Episodes IV - VI, replacing Luke and Han. This is fun becuase everyone thinks in the back of their mind that they could have handled the Battles of Hoth and Endor better than our favorite heroes - this gives them that chance.

Krad-edis
7 November 2001, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by Gabriel


Not necessarily. One of the most fun times we ever had was an "Infinities" scenario, if you will. The PC's became the main heroes in Episodes IV - VI, replacing Luke and Han. This is fun becuase everyone thinks in the back of their mind that they could have handled the Battles of Hoth and Endor better than our favorite heroes - this gives them that chance.

If it is "Infinites" than it is not the movies, and not the "true" classic era. However, it is different, and worth trying if you want to beat up on Vader and Palpatine.

Dr_Worm
7 November 2001, 08:17 AM
Krad:

Dude you're getting a bit offensive.


Anyone who wouldn't at least want to try it can I guess settle for a theme and era that has been done before over and over again. At least you know what to expect

Ya know I'm sorry for opening a can pf worms when I was curious as to your reasons...it was not meant as a criticism. Now, though, you seem to slamming those of us that do play in the "Classic" or NJO eras as unimaginative and boring. I, for one, have created a unique and creative campaign that is 25 years post ANH and has the EU (the bits that I want to use) as a mere backdrop. My characters do not know what to expect and have no interest in being Novel heros. My players have no problem seperating themselves from the publishied characters and have no interest in their lives. If your campaigns in these times were "...settling for a theme an era that has been done before..." please do not give blanket diagnosis of our campaigns.

Your campaigns (yours and Gabriel's) sound interesting, and I would love to see what you come up with. As as far as bigger and badder tech. goes, I think that you might want to consider it all being a advance in total scale rather than individual items. Like was said before...you could just end up rolling more dice to the same effect.

Krad-edis
7 November 2001, 12:07 PM
Dr. Worm,

Ten campaigns of Classic era in a row will give anyone the idea that it has been done before....sorry to give a blanket diagnosis of whatever you may be doing. But people I know have been whining about the classic era being played to death, books have been written with the classic characters with hundreds of adventures that pretty much all kind of go in the same direction. This I feel is a great way to get away from that.

As for your characters who may not wish to be "novel" heroes, some of mine don't either....but the billet is there if they rise to the occasion. I guess it is all what your characters like. I just like the idea of my story and background with their abilityto change the course of the galaxy. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Krad-edis
7 November 2001, 01:37 PM
I appreciate all of everyones comments and stats that I asked for, and I am sorry for jumping anyone's case, especially Deathstalker who has made some good suggestions. Originally I just asked for stat differences and now through explaining why I am doing this in the first place has given me ideas as to what to include and what not to. I guess I could have explained my view better than "settling for classic era" and I really did not mean it as the era is not fun. I have spent the last few years in that era.

1) Escape from Imperial Assylum 6 ( Right before ROTJ)
2) Endor No More (Predicted game played before NJO came out, about 40 years after ROTJ, probably would have been considered NJO back then)
3) Tatooine Trailblazers (After Episode 5)
4) Black Sun Maruaders ( During Shadows of the Empire)
5) Death Squad Troopers (Jedi Hunters 10 years before A New Hope)
6) Tremayne in Pursuit (Around Episode 4)
7) Harbringer of Rebellion (2 years before Episode 4)
8) Honor of the Dark Survivor (several years after Thrawn)
9) Thrawn Era Mercenary Campaign (the name says it all)
10) Die Vong Die: A Kyp Jedi Tale (Vong Era)

After 10 Cokes in a row, I was dying for a Pepsi or Mountain Dew, you know something different.

11) The Greater Sith War: 275 Years after ROTJ (Nine months of fun)

12) The Norian Invasion (800 years) We'll see how it goes. Not done yet making it.

You guys certainly have given me some things to think about.

Kayle Skolaris
7 November 2001, 05:16 PM
I would say that if you've run out of things to do in the Classic Era, you aren't trying hard enough. The adventures and campaigns possible in the Classic Era are limited only by one's imagination. And I must say, my imagination has never failed me yet...

Donovan Morningfire
7 November 2001, 05:36 PM
Hey folks, how about we lay off Krad? The man's already had himself a nice slice of humble pie, and apologized if he untentionally insulted anyone.

As to his wanting a breath of fresh air, I don't blame him. After running a Deadlands campaign for almost three years, I called it to a halt because I needed a break, needed to do something different. Krad feels the same way, and his answer to needing a different soft drink (like the analogy, btw) was to plan a far-future campaign.

Some folks can run games for years on end in the same Era. Krad's already stated that his players, wittingly or otherwise, metagame if the setting is Rebellion/New Republic/NJO Era. He wants to get away from all the EU and movies and write his own Star Wars saga, I say more power to him.

And for the record, it takes a heck of a lot more imagination to set up and run a campaign in a setting that is almost entirely your creation as opposed to one where the basics are laid out. He's not using the framework that a lot of other eras have intrinsic to them, he's doing this almost by the seat of his pants.

Kayle Skolaris
7 November 2001, 05:43 PM
As a fan of GURPS I am well aware of the complexities of developing one's own setting. I've done it many times.

Krad-edis
7 November 2001, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by Kayle Skolaris
I would say that if you've run out of things to do in the Classic Era, you aren't trying hard enough. The adventures and campaigns possible in the Classic Era are limited only by one's imagination. And I must say, my imagination has never failed me yet...

My imagination hasn't failed me either. I never said I couldn't think of something to do, I just said I was tired of the era and wanted to try something else with Star Wars.

Again, I never meant to step on anybody's campaign ideas, and if my wordings offended you, I've already apologized. Then again, if you think that not wanting to try something new after a while is offensive, I really don't know what to tell you. Besides, if you look up this thread, you will see that I really was only interested in finding out how much in the way technology changed, not necessarily explain my reasons why over and over again. As you can see above, there are a multitude of reasons:

- Originality
- Everything will be a surprise
- A chance for the PCs to influence the galaxy as the same characters in the books have been doing for a long time now.

This is the last time I feel I owe it to anyone to explain my campaign. Feel free to keep feeding me info as to how you think technology changed, but if you want to know why....it has been discussed already.

Dr_Worm
7 November 2001, 07:01 PM
I totally agree...you do not need to justify yourself any further...just let the nay-sayers be. I think you ought to look to Dune and others. Rather than just adding dice, which is an insult to your imagination, tweak things just a little.

Kayle Skolaris
7 November 2001, 07:16 PM
Here's an idea you may wish to explore...

As an outgrowth of Imperial and Republic research into reliable pilot droids, gunnery droid technology has increased by leaps and bounds to the point where reliable automated point defense guns now exist. When activated (by voice command or control panel), a number of defense guns come on-line that shoot down incoming fire. This is done by matching or exceeding the "to-hit" roll of the opposing gunner. A typical automated point defense gun might have between 5D and 6D skill. Fire control is already figured into the skill of the gun. This adds an extra layer of defense that doesn't involve the shields. Rigging these guns to fire on anything but incoming enemy fire is highly illegal and typically prosecuted with extreme prejudice.

Krad-edis
7 November 2001, 07:49 PM
That sounds like having something like Skynet from Terminator.....cool. That would eleviate some problems of manpower and battlestations. Programming the weapon automatons to respond to transponders of friends and foes would be expensive and in need of constant upgrades. One of my friends who likes to play Verpine techs would really have fun with this idea.

One more thing to consider, thanks Kayle.

edit: I hope to eventually post the majority of this campaign when ever I get around to it. The Norians (my bad dudes) and some of their technology (personal shields, transporter technology, and some other nifty little things like nanotech android assassins) will give the Jedi the run for their money. They have been studying the Republic for 600 years and know where to hit. It may even result in the Jedi actually being forgotten like Dr. Worm and I discussed somewhat. I haven't decided to have the campaign during the invasion or after the fact. Seeing how long it takes to come up with a Core Rules (two years in the making of a D6 Fantasy game, 189 pages of stuff, but no ending), I really don't know when they will be on the Holonet. I will bounce some of the starships and Norian instruments off you all when I get a chance......oh, and these things are not munchkin over kill weapons like they may sound like. All the things I mentioned above work pretty well, but a fumble can really screw things up (especially with transporters, which take time and concentration to use....no blind jumps). I've spent many years playing and Gming and reading about the classic era, but this stuff is really exciting for me. New Star Wars! Mwah hah hah!

Kayle Skolaris
7 November 2001, 08:28 PM
There shouldn't be a need for IFF gear since the guns target incoming fire, not the ships firing. Basically, if the guns sense a turbolaser bolt or missile/torpedo moving on an intercept vector, it targets the bolt or missile/torpedo and shoots to down.

Krad-edis
8 November 2001, 05:43 AM
I'd rig it for incoming concussion missiles and the ships that fired them. Illegal? Maybe for commercial ships, not for war ships. It would still be restricted from areas with lots of commercial sublight activity, but for areas in which pirates are known to hide.......activate Skynet.

wolfe
8 November 2001, 07:39 AM
Actually iff systems for the automated systems wouldn't be all that expensive as they would already be off the shelf technology as every combat vessel has an Iff system already all that would need be done is to tie it into the automated weapons.
as the iff goes off vessels transponders THATS were the problem lies, as techs love to play with transponder signals.
So if you are cruising along in your rebel transport( an example) and a pirate freighter has its transponder changed to match that of another rebel ship and attacks you,unless you have a subroutine somewhere that has the system attacking any vessel that attacks you reguardless of iff than your automated system isn't going to fire on a "friendly" craft.

You would need an iff system even if it was only supposed to fire on incoming weaponry as the system needs something to differenciate a missile from say friendly craft.
for game wise its also a way for the authorities to keep the automated system on "civilian"ships from shooting at them, unless of course it was modified and that would be a major offense.

to have an automated system to be able to shoot down energy bolts would basically end the need for manned weaponry altogether.

anyway...
for the added tech here are some examples have seen before.
more effecient energy cells for all equipment (ships,droids,weapons).
better effecient consumable systems on ships-power cells,life support and so on.
more effecient vessel systems-smaller crews.istead of making lots of vessels faster let the smaller freighters carry more(weight wise not volume)
more effecient navcomputers-faster plot times lower chances for misjumps.
weaponsystems more effecient-less crew,better range,(why up the hit dice when just add a better difficulty to hit will do)smaller size,weight.
farther sensor ranges,communications.
more effecient holonet- more access to it.
one set of shields that work on both energy and physical.
nanobot tech in medpack/fastflesh,bacta tanks-better med tech.
body armor may stay the same for protection somewhat just make it lighter,less restrictive.
and so on...

Kayle Skolaris
8 November 2001, 08:20 AM
Another idea is Active ECM/ECCM gear. A system that projects false sensor signals meant to scramble an enemy's fire control systems. A typical system might impose a -2D to -4D on enemy fire control. The system would ONLY affect fire control dice, so if you have Active ECM/ECCM gear good for -4D and then enemy has 3D fire control, the 3D fire control would be negated and the extra die of ECM is lost.

Krad-edis
5 January 2003, 08:47 AM
Here is the rough draft of what I am eventually going to do. I am putting this up after a long overdue request, so, I hope this works.

Levistus
5 January 2003, 03:39 PM
Just to add in my 2 cents, another idea is to create an entirely different world in which none of the Star Wars Movies took place in. Imagine playing in a world that combines classic Star Wars technology and The Force with nuclear technology. Or maybe a reverse world where the Sith control the majority of the universe and the Jedi are the outcasts hiding in one of the far corners of the galaxy. This allows for a more D&D type approach to creating your own world, with a little bit of the unique Star Wars flavor.

If your not into that type of game, you could also look into the distant past for a unique flavor. As described in the DSSB, imagine going back about 10000 years to the ancient Sith Empire and exploring all the possibilities in that type of campaign. Or maybe even going farther back still to when the force was still only first being discovered. As was said before, the only limit is your own imagination.