PDA

View Full Version : Find me if you can!>!>!>



wolverine
12 December 2001, 08:17 AM
Ok, apologies for the funny subject line, but seroiusly. When you play, do you combine both Hide/sneak into one skill, or keep them seperate. Also applies to melee/melee parry, and droid prog/repair.

I ask, because this came up while i was explaining the game to someone from one of the visiting ships here, and used my Sparks character to show how they advance etc...

Random Axe
12 December 2001, 09:19 AM
The Hide/Sneak skill we use for all three aspects: sneaking around, hiding one's self (as in camoflage or shadows) or hiding another thing (as in hiding your blaster under the bedside table).

The Computer Prog/Repair however, we split into two separate skills, Computer Ops and Computer Repair; it is one thing to be good at hacking into systems, or to know a lot of programming languages or how to use a computer, but it is another thing to know the physical guts of a terminal and how to pull or adjust the right wires or components.

Perversely, the Droid Program/Repair skill we left alone as is, though I suppose an argument could be made to split that skill into Droid Programming and Droid repair.

Jedi_Staailis
12 December 2001, 11:45 AM
I keep hide and sneak separate. I was under the impression that sneak was used for hiding oneself, and hide was used for hiding objects.

I also keep melee and droid skills separate (as in the rules), it keeps PCs from improving a catchall skill that overpowers other skills.

wolverine
12 December 2001, 11:49 AM
Well, if you go by base description from the main book, Hide is for masking OBJECTS, while sneak is for masking you when you move. Neither would 'technically' apply to masking you when you are stationary. Also the book has droid prog and droid repair as seperate skills. The current ruling from the Sparks force 7 council is that droid prog and droid rep are linked, same with hide/sneak, same for comp prog/rep. Melee and melee parry are kept seperate though.

stoic_75
12 December 2001, 06:26 PM
Hide and sneak need to be two seperate skills. Ditto Computer ops and repair. I gotta say that droid rep and program should be one skill. I think climbing and jumping should be two. Whoever thinks they are the same thing needs to compete in a track and field event. D20 figured that one out. I will say though,that there are too many specific skills in D6. I mean repulsorlift ops, hovercraft ops? Same damn thing. They are both vehicles that float on a cushion. It should be a broad skill with specializations in say, hovercraft.

Gabriel
12 December 2001, 09:02 PM
For me Hide/Sneak is one skill, because that is how it appeared on the character sheet in the 1st (which is also the best) version of the D6 game.

Dr_Worm
13 December 2001, 09:55 AM
We've kept Hide/Sneak together (like 1st ED), but have split Climb and Jump. I think that the skills involved on hidding objects and ones self are close enough, however the skills envolved in climbing a cliff face and jumping between building are vastly different.

Comp Program and Repair are close enough for my game, and with specialization you can focus on one; however I think a valid argument can be made for both sides really.

stoic_75
13 December 2001, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Gabriel
For me Hide/Sneak is one skill, because that is how it appeared on the character sheet in the 1st (which is also the best) version of the D6 game.

Yikes. Maybe this should be a thread of its own. There's no way 1st is the best. 2nd and revised allows you to spend cps, has the wild die, and an extra wound box. I think spae combat is smoother too. Man, maybe this is how allthe D20s fans feel.

Sithspawn
13 December 2001, 02:35 PM
cps, has the wild die
My jury is still out on the wild die. As for spending CPs, after introducing it I've spend so much time trying to persuade the players to drop the rule.

Hide/Sneak is one skill for me because, as you can no doubt tell from my above response, I do like the 1st Edition. So Computer prog/rep I keep as a single skill as I do droid prog/rep. Computer operations is pretty simple in RPG terms IMHO, difficulty 5 max, 10 for IT staff. So the Comp prog/rep skill can be used easily for complicated stuff or advanced programming by setting higher difficulties. Then Comp Engineering (A) is for serious building of PC's (not just swapping out memory cards or their SW equivilant).

Random Axe
14 December 2001, 06:42 AM
Man, I have never gone for the Wild die. It seemed always like a stupid rule, so I continually ignored it. The second wound category I also mostly ignore, unless it suits the scene for a PC to be able to move and act at huge penalties, even when otherwise he would have been incapacitated.

The spending CPs to influence the dice rolls however has been a great addition and we use that a lot.

Gabriel
14 December 2001, 08:17 AM
Yikes. Maybe this should be a thread of its own. There's no way 1st is the best. 2nd and revised allows you to spend cps, has the wild die, and an extra wound box. I think space combat is smoother too. Man, maybe this is how allthe D20s fans feel.

The problem with the new editions was the splitting up of skills, which is what this thread is all about. Hide and sneak are the same thing. In the Army this was the same class, one was never differentiated from the other. The exact same principles apply to both. The same problem came when they split up the heavy weapons skills into fifty different ones. The game became mundand and overspecialized. Character points were the only good thing to come out of the 2nd edition. And the wild die was the worst rule ever created. A one is six chance of horrible things happening at every turn? My players hated it from day one and I cant say that i blamed them.

Bas
23 December 2001, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by stoic_75
I will say though,that there are too many specific skills in D6. I mean repulsorlift ops, hovercraft ops? Same damn thing. They are both vehicles that float on a cushion. It should be a broad skill with specializations in say, hovercraft.

I agree with you somewhat there. While the controls on a hovercraft and a repulsorcraft would be about the same, I expect, the handling would be different. Which leads to a similar question- the difference between pulling the trigger on a blaster pistol or pulling the trigger on a berrata or pulling the trigger on a flechette pistol is minimal- yet they all use different skills (Blaster, Firearms, and Missile Weapons, respectively). While I admit there are some differences, such as recoil, I'm don't think all of the above should be entirely seperate. Perhaps a -1D penalty to fire a weapon similar to what the character knows? I.e, someone with 5D blaster could fire a firearm at 4d?

Emperor Xanderich II
23 December 2001, 02:17 PM
I think one of the reasons while, say, blaster and firearms are unrelated skills, is too prevent the blaster skill from being too important. It is one of the most used skills in the games and every step should be taken to prevent it from dominating the others.

Sometimes firearms can be very useful, so it should be sa separate skill. And I dare say if I picked up a stormtrooper rifle, whilst being a marksman on the L-98 rifle, would miss most of the shots I fired due to general unfamilarity (SP?) of the weapon.

In our campaign, Hide/sneak, droid stuff and computer geek prog, is all separate.

In the end, having all these different skills adds more character to your, err, character... :)

Tony J Case, Super Genius
31 December 2001, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by wolverine
Ok, apologies for the funny subject line, but seroiusly. When you play, do you combine both Hide/sneak into one skill, or keep them seperate. Also applies to melee/melee parry, and droid prog/repair.

I ask, because this came up while i was explaining the game to someone from one of the visiting ships here, and used my Sparks character to show how they advance etc...

We've kept the hide/sneak / search as their own skills - but we've combined the brawling / brawling parry, melee / melee parry on into one skill. Frankly, this is one of those "No DUH!" moments that we should have thought of ages ago.

Sabre
31 December 2001, 01:24 PM
I keep hide and sneak as different skills because hiding yourself and hiding an object just seem like different tasks to me. But a lot of players get confused on this, so I renamed hide to 'conceal' which seems to imply the function of the skill a bit better.

Like Tony, I joined Melee Combat and Melee Parry into one skill, Melee, under DEX and brawl and brawl parry into one skill, brawl, under STR. Martial arts I separated from Brawling, and made it Dexterity or Strength based, depending on which one the style favors. However, in order to use martial arts, a combatant must be in control of themselves (requiring a willpower check). Martial arts is what you do when you're under control and know what you're doing. Brawling is what you do when you lose control and do whatever.

I keep droid programming and repair separate, and I separate computer programming and repair. The logic behind separating computer programming and reapair goes something like this: If you choose a specialization, you'd probably choose a prgramming language, like C. But you'll never make a roll to repair C because C isn't broken. Similarly, if you specialize in repairing a type of computer (Hal 9000) it doesn't say what language you'd use to program that computer.

Gulmyros
1 January 2002, 01:58 PM
And the wild die was the worst rule ever created. A one is six chance of horrible things happening at every turn? My players hated it from day one and I cant say that i blamed them.I don't want to get off topic for too long, but since several people have had similar gripes about this, let me take a second to clarify the mechanic.

The wild die has a chance to benefit or hinder. Roll a 6, add it in and roll again. Get another? Add it in too, and keep rolling. If you roll a 1 during the "roll again" phase, you just add it in. No penalty. Now, if you're making a skill or attribute roll and the wild die comes up a 1, then you get a penalty in one of two ways.

Usually the wild die is removed along with the highest other die, and the rest are totalled. This is called a Penalty.

Ocassionally, the 1 on the wild die indicates a Complication. While they are designed to complicate the PC's life, they're basically open-ended GM tools and allow a broad range of circumstances and results. They are not necessarily catastrophic or horrible, tho they may be if the GM feels it's reasonable AND helps the story along.

So how often do you get a Penalty and how often do you get a Complication? The 2nd edition book says that you can basically use whichever you want, but if you want a mechanic for it they provide one.

When a PC gets a 1 on the wild die, the GM rolls a d6. If the roll comes up a 1-5, then it's a Penalty. If it comes up a 6, then it's a Complication. That means that the player's die has to come up a 1, AND the GM's die has to come up a 6 to get a Complication. That's only a 2.25% chance - less than rolling a 1 on a d20.

Anyway....

:)

Gully

wolverine
31 March 2003, 08:36 AM
Any new thoughts on this from all the new folks???

Jedi_Staailis
31 March 2003, 09:25 AM
Any new thoughts on this from all the new folks???
I'm not sure I qualify for that. Maybe "on the way to old geezer (in roleplaying terms, at least)," but I'll take a stance anyway. :)

Blaster is kept separate from all other weapons skills. Blaster is probably the second most useful skill in the game (second only to Dodge), and it doesn't need to get any more powerful. The same logic applies to melee and melee parry. They're very useful skills, and they need to be separated to avoid them becoming overpowered. The combination of Computer Programming/Repair and the split between Droid Programming and Repair also follow from this.

Regarding all of the starship skills, I think this is really what sets spacers apart from everyone else. It's going to take neglecting other areas to be skilled at flying everything. In d20, most players will just toss a few skill points into pilot because they can, and there's only one skill for everything.

Sneak and hide are kept separate. To quote the description of sneak, "Sneak represents the character's ability to move silently, hide from view, move in shadows and otherwise creep around without being noticed. [...] This skill allows characters to hide themselves only -- to conceal objects, they must use the hide skill." So if you're hiding yourself, use sneak, if you're hiding an object, use hide. Both are very useful, and can be close to overpowering if combined.

Climbing/Jumping I've also left as is. It doesn't seem to be a big problem, and it's just not worth the hassle to explain it as a house rule.

As for the wild die, I've never liked it. The dice rolling was random enough by itself, and certainly didn't need any more variability.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Ace Calhoon
2 April 2003, 08:36 AM
Hm, here's my two cents on a few things:
Hide, sneak - I usually follow the book here, hide allows you to hide objects while sneak allows you to hide yourself. Based on the rest of the rules system, I would never use hide for hiding yourself when stationary and sneak for hiding yourself when moving... I can just picture a player asking "So, if I sit in the shadows he needs to roll an average of 10 to detect me, but if I move around in the shadows he'll provably need an 18 or better?"
As far as having them be seperate skills the way they are printed, I'd have to say that they would be seperate. As with most role playing games, Star Wars has the quirk of not forcing a player to take complementary skills.

Influencing die rolls with character points - In my opinion, this can either be a great mechanic, or a horrible mechanic based on the group's meta game. In games that are run by the book (15-25 cps per session, may only increase each skill by one pip per game night) spending character points throws the balance of the game all to heck. Characters will tend to be encouraged to use the character points to increase their already sizeable advantage over NPCs. However, in my personal environment (5-8 cps per session, may increase skills as far as training time permits) it seems to work quite well, giving the players the chance to over-rule fluke rolls.

The wild die - I personally like this rule, as it adds an element of danger to the game. It helps make players a bit more leery about getting shot. I also use it as an opportunity to add "quirks" to modified equipment: little abnormalities that may help, hinder, or do nothing.

JPValentine
3 April 2003, 03:30 PM
Holy nerf Hearders!

25 CP PER SESSION! That's crazy, you would have to be insane as a GM to throw out that much XP! Where to you see a rule for that?

I am definately a 5-8 GM, occaisonally I have thrown out 10, but that's exceptional.

JP

Ace Calhoon
3 April 2003, 07:37 PM
I used to give an average of 20 cps (before I gained experience with how the system worked). Here's why (see page 161, 2nd Ed. R&E):
6-8 (When the group succeeded)
2-4 (for cooperation)
3-4 (for role playing)
3-4 (for having fun)

That means that according to the book, a group should get from 14 to 20 character points per night, if they succeeded. If they fail, they get 11 to 12 character points. That's excluding the 2-3 point bonus given to players who did "exceptionally well."

jmanski
16 April 2003, 10:31 AM
I llike to split blaster into 3 categories: rifle, carbine, and pistol- each is separate. That way someone can have a high blaster pistol skill but not be as good with a rifle, for example.