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Fred Getce
16 December 2001, 05:34 PM
Here is the first time we will see a possible answer from George Lucas himself, and once again he flies in the face of EU.

Scroll down.



















Anakin talks aboard the freighter with Padme. He speaks of how he longs to see Naboo again, and how beautiful it was. Even in his adventures since he has not been to a more beautiful place.

Padme returns that everything is different now, and that time may have distorted the history of his memory. Of course, time heals all wounds, which may be good in this case. It wasn't exactly a glowing experience he had there ten years earlier.

Padme changes the subject with the dialogue we heard in the Forbidden Love trailer, how it must be difficult swearing his life to the Jedi. Not being able to visit the places you like or doing the things you like ... and he cuts her off ... or be with the people I love. She continues asking if he is allowed to love, thinking that it was forbidden for Jedi.

Attachment and possesion is forbidden, he suggests, not compassion. He talks about his love for her and that his life is complete with her.

Anakin has changed much, and so has Padme, but not far from the way she is remembered in his dreams. Naboo probably hasn't changed much either. The subject then focuses on his dreams.

Padme wonders out loud if he was dreaming of his mother. There is a brief pause.

MadMysticMoose
16 December 2001, 07:22 PM
My interpretation -

There is no emotion; There is Peace

However....

There is no ignorance; There is Knowledge


To say that a Jedi must be emotionless is inaccurate. A Jedi feels a reverence for life and the Force. An uncompassionate Jedi would not be able to act on behalf of those who need him.
But a Jedi must be at peace with his emotions, himself and the Force. To act from any strong emotion is to open the door to a time when he may act from strong negative emotions.
While a Jedi shouldn't act purely on his emotions, being ignorant of them or denying them would be ignorance. You must be aware of your emotions, but be at peace from them and the environment.
So can a Jedi love? For a Jedi to deny that he feels love or try to ignore it is ignorance and denial. But to try to pursue that love, to experience prolonged passion or explore those feelings in depth, a Jedi might be distracted and unable to heed the will of the Force.

Gabriel
29 December 2001, 12:04 PM
It looks to me as if George is saying that being a Jedi is similar to being a monk. Being a Jedi is a serious commitment, that comes before a wife/husband and family. I for one am happy he is "flying in the face of the EU."

Donovan Morningfire
29 December 2001, 04:06 PM
Thank you Fred, this answers more than a few questions. As far as I'm concerned, Lucas has ever right to go tell the collective EU to sit and twirl. Yes, there is stuff I like out of EU, but we're all just playing around in Uncle George's backyard.

I think I remember reading a short bit about a lesson that a Jedi Master had for his newly-accepted Padawan. It went along the lines of "a Jedi feels emotion the same as any other living being, but must learn to not be controlled by emotion."

It does make the Jedi seem more monk-like, which is fitting since they were one of the foundations when Lucas was creating the concept of the Jedi Knights.

Darth Bile
14 January 2002, 07:14 AM
Basically, (and sorry for bringing another gaming universe in here), a Jedi, in my opinion, must be like a vulcan, he's allowed to have emotions, but he must control them so he doens't misuse them in anyway, and yeah, i know, vulcans control and not show emotions, but jedi can show emotions, they just need to keep them in control all the time

Wade Trenor
14 January 2002, 08:29 PM
Well, according to the EU sources, Jedi can love.
Luke and Mara are married, and I think some of the other Jedi are dating each other in the NJO (but I may be mistaken there). Also, in the Jedi Apprentice series, Qui-Gon Jinn falls in love with Tahl (another Jedi). Furthermore, Star Wars #1-6 have a story about Ki-Adi Mundi and it shows that he has several wives (some are there to show his class level), but one of them he does appear to love. He also shows love for his daughter.

The reason this question arises is because Jedi are always on call, and it's not like they can come home the next day, especially if they have to travel to different systems. It's hard to start a relationship, yet alone 'maintain' it. Then there's also the fact that Jedi have to stay focused, and love may produce a lack of focus in a desired area. The Jedi council is probably opposed to the idea (considering the person you fall in love with may 'taint' you), but also because of the distraction their partner causes.

Iris
14 January 2002, 09:04 PM
This issue is actually something I'm dealing with in my RPG story; though it's not the romantic love of a husband and wife, but the love between a child and father (or adopted father in this case).

I can't believe the Jedi would ban love completely. Without love of SOMETHING there is no desire to save or protect it. You need more than training to encourage a Jedi along his/her path.

I do believe Jedi marrages are few and far between, and more apt to happen between 2 Jedi than a Jedi and someone who is not trained.

HOWEVER, the same Love that can drive a Jedi to protect that which is important in the universe can also be his/her downfall. When something disasterous happens to the object of STRONG feelings of love, the mind doesn't think clearly. This can easily drive the Jedi to do things of a Darker nature. (Which is what happened to Iris. PM Me if you are interested in the details since they would be fluff in this post.)

As for Lucas completely ignoring the EU, I don't think so. The one point everyone forgets when dealing the the EU story after Endor is that Luke doesn't know or have access to anyone who knows how the original Jedi Order dealt with this issue. Because of this he has to make his own judgement call and, in effect, create the New Traditions of the New Jedi.

(I hope some of this made sense)

Donovan Morningfire
15 January 2002, 06:30 AM
Makes sense here Iris. That's what I was trying to get at with the "Jedi feel emotions but learn not to be controled by them" bit; you said it a lot better than I did :)

If a person doesn't care about a thing, then he won't expend any real effort to defend a thing. The old Jedi Order probably teaches that such compassion should be for all living beings and not for only a select few. The idea of actual love (not just compassion) is probably something of a 'hot-topic' amongst the old Order. There are Jedi ranging from Knights to esteemed Masters that advocate a Jedi being able to fall in love.

The whole "Jedi shall not love" may be more of a guideline to avoid purely physical love (i.e. lust). Padawans are probably especially restricted in that regard by their Masters, as most of them are teenagers with raging hormones. (Heck, this could be a tie-in leading up to Anakin and Obi-Wan's climatic battle.)

BrianDavion
15 January 2002, 05:29 PM
onto another opart of that trailer... it shows Obi-wan talking to Anakin and saying "she's a senator a politican, they can't be trusted" or something along those lines.. does anyone ELSE think that this was intresting... I suspect that by E2 we will already see signs of a break between the Jedi and the Senate. intresting eh?

Talonne Hauk
25 January 2002, 09:54 PM
I think if the potential power of a Jedi is determined by his or her midichlorian count, then it would be stupid for Jedis to not be able to pass on their legacy. So I believe that it is probably forbidden for A Jedi to marry outside of the Jedi order, for the reason that it would weaken their progenies potential to become Jedi. Also, being a Jedi is a commitment of the highest order, right? It only makes sense that a Jedi could only marry someone who understands that commitment, as it supersedes anything else, including the marriage.

Digital Ruse
30 January 2002, 12:05 PM
That may work..however...

There are people who do have high midichlorian counts, but just aren't found by the Jedi Council. It is then consievable that a Jedi could marry and have kids with someone who meets these standards.

Also. The Jedi Order never seeks "power". They only seek to balance and maintain peace and law.

-DR

DirkGreystoke
30 January 2002, 09:31 PM
If Jedi could marry, then some might just try to have babies with a high MC count to preserve their family's legacy. This could lead to nasty happenings and could give the dark side a chance to tempt some Jedi.

Talonne Hauk
30 January 2002, 10:35 PM
Okay, I mistyped. Strike "power" from my previous post, and replace it with potential. But seriouly, even if a Jedi were to marry and have children with an eye towards a high midichlorian count, so what? "From a certain point of view" that could be construed as a noble act, because the Jedi is making the next generation stronger, with greater tools to combat the dark side. Back in the days of the Jedi Council, force-sensitive kids were targeted within their first year of life to join and be schooled in the Jedi Order. With billions upon billions of beings in the galaxy to sift through, wouldn't it make sense to look in their own backyard first?

Rebel Scum
1 February 2002, 12:04 PM
A similar question was posed on the starwars.com site and it answers these questions fairly well.

The links is here: http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/jocasta/askjc20020124.html

To sum up the answer though, in the beginning there was no real Jedi code, but this created many problems. So the Jedi created the council and the code to guide them and keep them from the dark side. When Luke reestablishes the Jedi, the existing code is forgotten and things that were unheard of before, like love and romance, are accepted.

DirkGreystoke
1 February 2002, 03:06 PM
This is all pure speculation. Until we see Episodes II and III, we will not know for sure. The whole "code is lost/forgotten/not known" arugment is usually made to excuse what has happened in the books. I do not think Lucas will operate this way. He will tell the story he wants to tell, novels be damned.

Iris
3 February 2002, 11:12 PM
While I agree that Lucas will tell his story they way he wants to tell it irregardless of what we as fans think should happen or what the novels predict will happen, the truth is, from the information we have in Episodes 4-6, Luke doesn't know the old Jedi Code; he was never taught it because there wasn't time to cover all the information Jedi Padawans learned in the Old Republic. Obi Wan and Yoda had to rush his training and hope for the best.

Because this is the case, we are seeing differences between the Jedi Order in the Old Republic era vs the Jedi of the New Republic era.

Wade Trenor
5 February 2002, 04:02 AM
I'll agree that during the classic trilogy, Luke is only taught what was deemed necessary by Obi-Wan and Yoda. However, the EU shows that over time, he encounters Jedi from the Old Republic, is able to retrieve a Holocron, etc. Luke would be able to learn what the old practices were, and make changes to overcome the difficulties with rebuilding an entire order, and gaining Republic aid once more.

I know a lot of the arguements I make are based on EU, but to continue (and repeat), Luke and Mara are married and have a child. Ki Adi Mundi (of the Jedi Council) has a few wives and children. Even Qui-Gon fell in love, although events surrounding that relationship did lead him towards the Dark Side. Anakin and Padme fall in love and have children.

I have a hard time with an explanation there. Obi-Wan and Yoda never objected to the fact Vader had kids, although I doubt Luke would sit there and take comments like "Jeez, what a mistake you were!"

Also, in trailers, Obi-Wan seems to object more to Padme as a distraction or a senator, than a rule about love. I haven't read through the entire scene, so I can only assume that Anakin gives an answer, or that the question can be placed in a better context.

ColoPash
6 February 2002, 05:14 PM
As I recall reading in Shadow Hunter, the Jedi can have emotion, they just cannot be ruled by it. So I'd think there'd be room for love in a Jedi's life. Just a thought though.. if Lucas says "No" I guess that's that.

BrianDavion
6 February 2002, 08:30 PM
well.. marraige is a major emotional COMMITMENT. to make a commitment to your emotions suggests that you are controled by your emotions...

I mean... if you thought about it purely logicly... YOU'D HAVE TO BE CRAZY TO MARRY SOMEONE.

so, perhaps marraige is forbidden because it is in a sense the ultimate in purely emotional action.

Talonne Hauk
6 February 2002, 09:25 PM
I know Lucas wants to push this ascetic lifestyle of Jedi celibacy in this movie, but i don't buy it. If Lucas wants to make force sensitivity a biological issue, i.e. midichlorians, then it only makes sense that Jedi are allowed to pass on their genetic material. Otherwise, he should have kept the Force as a purely philosophical approach, where anyone could access it, although some had greater potential than others. It's his movie, his vision, but I don't think he thought it out completely. But that's just my two cents.

BrianDavion
7 February 2002, 07:25 AM
acccess to the force has ALWAYS been somewhat biological in inherritance. the skywalker family proved that...


as for the miciclorians... keep in mind qui-gon's explination was one given to a 9 year old. it was proably pretty simplified

Talonne Hauk
7 February 2002, 08:10 AM
In a way, you're proving my point. Access to the force has to some degree been biological in nature. But with the "Forbidden Love" concept, Lucas is making the Skywalkers an aberration. If Jedis can't love, can't procreate, then their having children strong in the force doesn't happen. If it's so scary for Jedi to have children, then why wasn't Palpatine scurrying off with his concubines at every opportunity?

Skwoz
7 February 2002, 05:00 PM
According to the official Star Wars site http (http://www.starwars.com), during the Old Republic Era it is forbidden for a Jedi to love or bear any emotion that could be harmful to their code. If you look at it deeper, love to lead to sorrow, jealousy, remorse, etc ... all emotions of the Dark Side.

They also go to support the EU periods by stating that in the early stages of the Jedi Order (circa. Sith period), the Jedi were structured differently allowing mentors to have more than one student, and Jedi to even marry. This may have changed due to what occured with the Sith Wars, realising that such a structures holds weaknesses that could account for people such as Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-droma.

An additional piece of information is in regards to Luke and Mara in the New Republic. At this period all knowledge of the former Jedi Order has been lost, and Luke is doing what he can to attempt to recreate it to the best of his ability, mainly through trial and error. It is therefore said that this reasons to their relationship, once gain without knowledge of the Jedi Orders regulations.

Talonne Hauk
7 February 2002, 06:13 PM
Forget the EU. Forget Lucasfilm's website. All you need to do is look at Return of the Jedi. Luke is the first of the new Jedi. Leia, by the only true "canon" vision, must be the second. And she loves Han. I think that says it all.

DirkGreystoke
7 February 2002, 09:07 PM
Forget the EU. Forget Lucasfilm's website. All you need to do is look at Return of the Jedi. Luke is the first of the new Jedi. Leia, by the only true "canon" vision, must be the second. And she loves Han. I think that says it all.

Not necessarily. We only know that Yoda told Luke to "pass on what he had learned." I have watched ROTJ upteen times just like the next guy, but I cannot recall anything, subtle or not, that suggests that she will pursue the Jedi training someday. There is just as much evidence to suggest that she will go on as a non-Jedi person.

WraithFive
11 February 2002, 06:06 PM
With the inconsitencies and subtule contridiction from the Orignal Trilogy to the new will be many and all over. i just want some consitency!
i feel that a great many people including myself are frustrated by Lucas disregard to what we already know. But I honestly feel that what ever it does it will fit it to what philisophicly in tune with the Jedi. But for a the Sith in the galaxy would some one then explain to me how and New jedi order Jedi would be around several prominet and not so prominet charaters of it could have been born if Jedi could love and have children

DirkGreystoke
11 February 2002, 07:35 PM
We don't know enough about midi-cholorians to answer that one. It does not neccessarily have to be that two high midi-chlorian count people need to mate to have a Jedi-worthy baby. There are a ton of other factors that could go into it. Hopefully Lucas will reveal more in this topic in the next two films. But as for inconsistancies between EPI and EPs IV-VI, I cannot yet find one.

Corsair
11 February 2002, 10:15 PM
I agree with you there DG, I have yet to see inconsistencies either. We are just getting new information. Information that was not available at the time of the Original Trilogy because all the information of the old does not exist in the new thanks to Palpy's handiwork.

People complain about midichlorians .. and about stuff in episode 2 (which is funny because it hasnt even come out yet .. im talking Fett stuff here) ... and it is baseless. Things are just not going they way THEY want. I just have one thing to say: GET OVER IT.

It's Lucas' vision .. not yours. Deal with it.

Fred Getce
18 February 2002, 12:38 AM
Just to make sure everyone is on the same page.

This topic comes in after several threads about Jedi and sex. We have, in some of our games anyway, had Jedi characters have intimate relations with member of the opposite or same sex and have been wondering whether or not Jedi in SW actually do such things or are they more like a celibate monk.

Well GL is not going to put the shaft down on this. In a dialogue between Anakin and Padme we will learn that the Jedi can "love" that is they can care about someone deeply even to the point of a Jedi saying in a serious mind "I love you Terenor Assassir of Bespin" and actually mean the total of his or her body, mind, soul, and heart with that love. However because of their training and education they do not "normally" follow through with it and actually become passionate lovers. BUT, (and that is the biggest but we will see) some rare Jedi do go that extra life time and become lovers even to the point of marrying the individual or forming some sort of life bond with them and having children. These individuals are akin to Qui-Gon Jinn in that they are still respected Jedi but they will never sit on the council because they failed to uphold the ideals of the "perfect" Jedi, but they are still respected BECAUSE they are Jedi and have passed all the other tests to attain their rank as a Jedi Knight or Jedi Master.

Ofcourse their is another problem that has come up and it is one that everyone here has failed to think of. Their are some life forms out their (even on our own planet) that are asexual, they reproduce without sex and have "children". So it is possible that there are life forms in SW that no matter what will have a certain amount of children in their life times. Think of the Drak in" Enemy Mind" or was it "Enemy Mine" with Lous Goseph Jr. and Dennis Quaid. The Drak will have a child no matter what in their lifetime.

So if we are so gun ho about Jedi NEVER being allowed to have children or passing on their Midi-Chlorians, than what about a species that reproduces asexual? Wouldn't the Jedi allow them as Jedi too if they had the prerequisite Midi-count? If the Jedi were Bigots to the whole notion of having off-spring no matter what, would they segregate this new species just because they reproduce, by them selves, X amount of times in their life times and have "children"?

Wouldn't that be a darkside trait, segregation? Wouldn't it be great if my rating goes up (vote for me! vote for me!).

Anyhoo, some more stuff for the brain furnaces. Oh by the way I am single again, just in case VixenofVenus was wondering (I would mention it to Nova Spice but as he has said a bazillion times he is not a she). ;)

Corsair
18 February 2002, 04:17 PM
Hehe. You aint the only one who is single again Fred. And seeing as Vixen is really the only one I know on the board that is female ... I'm single again Vixen! :D :p

Wade Trenor
18 February 2002, 11:24 PM
Watch out Corsair, she might have "beer". ;)

Fred raised some interesting points, but if we can accept some of the expanded universe material, he's made a few incorrect statements.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Ki-Adi Mundi was a Jedi Knight (not Master) who was accepted onto the Council. He had several wives that he loved, and each had given him daughters. Qui-Gon has also fallen in love, and yet he was not scolded by the council members (although he was in a state of grieving when he met with the Council).

I think the issue is raised because love is so consuming and distracting, that it takes an extraordinary person to stay on the Jedi path when they fall in love. I think it also arises from the fact that besides their padawans, most Jedi are loners who travel from planet to planet to fulfill the missions given to them by the council. Most have little time to fall in love.

One thing that does give pause to the notion that Jedi can love, however, is that the Jedi code states "There is no emotion, there is Peace." and I'm pretty sure love is about strong emotions. Perhaps that's just another part of the balancing act?

Fred Getce
19 February 2002, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by Wade Trenor
Fred raised some interesting points, but if we can accept some of the expanded universe material, he's made a few incorrect statements.


But that is only if you want to include the Expanded Universe stuff in your campaign (or this thread), but as far as I am concerned this thread is a discussion about George Lucas and only CANON material (the four movies, screen plays and radio dramas) only, NON of the books. The books written in EU are far to contradictive when delicate subjects are discussed.

I have mentioned though that GL will sort of skirt around the idea so as to not completely blow EU books out of space where Jedi have children, he will only hint that during the Republic eras it was Very Rare, to the point of being unique to a select few, but there were some such instances in SW (we won't hear about or see them).

Personally in my games Jedi can have wives and children but they must first get permission from the council who will use the Force to determine if it is meant to be, sort of like the Council when they tested Anakin. If the soon to be wife or husband stands up to the Jedi Council and they deem the individual worthy they will allow the Jedi to continue the relationship to its end.

Wade Trenor
19 February 2002, 01:35 AM
Well, that's why I said if you go by EU sources. I didn't want to step on any toes. :)

We can hardly debate the topic though, as going by canon, there is only one known Jedi relationship of that level, and it has only appeared in trailers so far. There could be many reasons for and against Jedi falling in love, and many reasons why Anakin had children and turned to the Dark Side. Lets see what George comes up with. B)

BrianDavion
19 February 2002, 07:04 AM
when you say NONE of the books you forget that per Lucases statement the novelizations of the movies are also cannon...

HOWEVER the books and radio drams are CONDITIONALY cannon.

the movie overrides the book, the book over rides the radio drama...


anyway. as for EU, using EU evidance is fair because frankly Lucas film tries to gt EU to work with Cannon.

the whole rewored explination for the sith is a way to make the sith in the TPM reconcil with the sith as seen in tales of the Jedi

Fred Getce
19 February 2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Wade Trenor.
Well, that's why I said if you go by EU sources. I didn't want to step on any toes.

You didn't step on any toes, I just wanted too make that distinction on how I would like this thread to go. Only using the four movies to discuss Jedi politics and ethics


Originally posted by BrianDavion
When you say NONE of the books you forget that per Lucases statement the novelizations of the movies are also cannon...

I didn't forget them, I just forgot to mention them, but still, I did specifically say EU books, so canon books are in. The actually canon policy went...

Movies
Screenplays
Novels
Radio Dramas

In that order, however I (personally in discussions with friends) give the radio dramas the number three spot only because they have far less contradiction than the novels did. In the ROTJ novel OB1 stated that Owen Lars was his brother, however (Spoiler Coming up) we will learn in EPII that this is not so. Brian Daly who worked on the Radio Dramas felt they were better than the novels for the simple reason that they went and did stuff that was off camera like the night Hand and Luke were in that emergency shelter on Hoth, Or the morning of Lukes first day of training when Yoda was making breakfast (very funny), or the stuff that happened on Tattooine before Luke met the droids (very informative about the state and opinions on the galactic polictics from some country boy's point of view). However the ROTJ radio drama had no such luck, mostly because Brian daly passed away before it was completed, so they pretty much followed the movie virtually to a "T", which meant very few extras (they had Luke building a new lightsabre in OB1's old hut on Tattooine and Vader speaks to the Emperor before heading the the DSII to take command of the building and contruction process and a dialogue between Han, Lando, Leia, Luke after they defeated Jabba and his thugs and we find out how they got off Tattooine so easily in the movie).

While we will see a romantic relationship form in EPII between Anakin and Padme, GL will have the higher up Jedi with lines which may or may not hint that this is not the first time this has happened (a Jedi having wives or a physical relationship that involves sex and children).

The current opinion for this reason is GL, while not bound to have to support EU and the authors who have played in his creation, he has decided to leave certain subjects in the air so there will be reasonable doubt for the current books and future books to be included with as little contradiction as possible. I tend to agree with this opinion, mostly because, yes I like EU books, (welllllllll...not all of them, about 30% of them) and it will add some more deoth to his creation which he doesn't have to do himself.

Master Dao Rin
19 February 2002, 09:51 PM
Actually, per the official sites JC question response, ONLY the movies are canon. The screenplays, novels, and the previous radio dramas are highly official, being that they are an interpretation of the movies. These three things override everything else out there, which is labeled "EU (expanded universe)".

BrianDavion
20 February 2002, 07:34 AM
thats nice. according to George Lucas himself in the star wars insider, the novelizations and radio dramas ARE cannon, BUT they are only conditionally cannon.

they are cannon so long as they do not conflict with the movie.

Cannon is
Movies
Script Novels
Radio drama


In THAT ORDER.

that is the ruleing of George Lucas himself

DirkGreystoke
20 February 2002, 07:51 AM
anyway. as for EU, using EU evidance is fair because frankly Lucas film tries to gt EU to work with Cannon.


Nothing could be further from the truth. It is in fact the other way around. Lucas has not obligation to make the EU and films fit together, and I have never seen anything to make it appear that he would. Even Timothy Zahn said this in a recent interview. The EU authors are only playing in George's universe, and he can do whatever he wants. Star Wars has been George's ship from the beginning.

And as for Cannon Brain, you need to go to starwars.com and read what has been written more recently from Lucasfilm. Apparently George has changed his mind, or he was misquoted. Only the films are cannon, peroid. As somone pointed out earlier there are a few conflicting things even in the movie novelizations. To say that something is cannon as long as it does not contradict the movies is a contradiction in and of itself. Cannon means that there are no contradictions....that the sources are continuous with each other.

You need to read this link
http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/steve/askjc20010817.html

In which it clearly states that only the films are cannon. This what the directive Lucas gave all the EU authors. I am not sure what issue of insider you are referring to but I have never seen Lucas say that anything other than the films were cannon.

Therefore my conclusion is that we don't know enough about this topic yet, and that Episode II will shed more light on the situation. But as for me, there are no Jedi love relationships in our current game.

darth maim
13 March 2002, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by BrianDavion
well.. marraige is a major emotional COMMITMENT. to make a commitment to your emotions suggests that you are controled by your emotions...

I mean... if you thought about it purely logicly... YOU'D HAVE TO BE CRAZY TO MARRY SOMEONE.

so, perhaps marraige is forbidden because it is in a sense the ultimate in purely emotional action.

Not true, I mean come on man you DO get a tax break....
Insurance is cheaper....

darth maim
13 March 2002, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by Fred Getce
In the ROTJ novel OB1 stated that Owen Lars was his brother, however (Spoiler Coming up) we will learn in EPII that this is not so.

I would have to say that this is pretty clear and definately settled in EP1. If Obi Wan had a brother on tatooine don't you think he would ahve mentioned it rather than hang out on a ship while Qui Gon went out to secure parts for the damaged starship? I'm thinking this is a friend he meets in the next couple of movies.

BrianDavion
14 March 2002, 01:34 PM
**Spoiler***














In E2 we learn Owen Lars is not Obi-Wan's brother at all, but Anakins stepbrother! Shima in the 10 years while anakin is away apparently marries a mositure farmer named Clegg Lairs. Clegg has a son named Owen. (I have NO idea how Shima got her freedom, though it likely has something to do with Wattos obvious poverty seen in the E2 trailers... perhaps Clegg won her freedom from Watto as Watto made a last ditch gamble with clegg to gain back some money etc?)
now this creates a HUGE question: how the HECK did Luke go unnoticed?

Tramp
22 March 2002, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by DirkGreystoke




And as for Cannon Brain, you need to go to starwars.com and read what has been written more recently from Lucasfilm. Apparently George has changed his mind, or he was misquoted. Only the films are cannon, peroid. As somone pointed out earlier there are a few conflicting things even in the movie novelizations. To say that something is cannon as long as it does not contradict the movies is a contradiction in and of itself. Cannon means that there are no contradictions....that the sources are continuous with each other.

You need to read this link
http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/steve/askjc20010817.html

In which it clearly states that only the films are cannon. This what the directive Lucas gave all the EU authors. I am not sure what issue of insider you are referring to but I have never seen Lucas say that anything other than the films were cannon.



actually it says that only the movies are ABSOLUTE canon and that the rest are interpretations. That doesn't in any way discount the EU. The article also went on to say that Infinities are the only stories that don't have to follow continuity. Everything else is very strictly regulated. If something in a story doesn't chime with George's vision, it doesn't get published. Hence the different "degrees of canon". the EU is still canon and OFFICALLY part of the continuity, but only the movies are ABSOLUTE CANON. There is a difference.

DirkGreystoke
22 March 2002, 07:19 PM
Sorry, but there are not degrees of cannon. The article uses the words "absolute cannon" for clarity only. This does not mean there is a continuim of cannon material. Something is either cannon or it is not, there is no middle ground, and the ariticle clearly states. This would in fact voilate the definition of cannon in the first place. Everything that is not in the films is "official" according to Lucasfilm, which includes the EU in its entireity.

The EU meets no criteria by George whether or not it gets published. He has regulated that job to others in the Lucasfilm empire. Take Chewie's death for instance. George had nothing to do with it. The decision was made by one of the senoir editors of Lucasflim publishing. The only input George had on the whole New Jedi Order series was telling them that they could not have Sith for badguys and that's it. The EU contradicts the events protrayed in and described in the films on many an occasion. And the new films are only making this more true. Take for instance all the stories about the origins of Boba Fett. They are now all null and void. Another great example is the Tales of the Jedi comics, which are also completely wiped out by the events in Episode II.

darth maim
22 March 2002, 11:54 PM
Ummmm... hey guys... when exactly did this become a canon pissing match? Think we can either discuss the topic with no talk of canon or just start a rants and raves thread about canon this and canon that?

Fred Getce
23 March 2002, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by DirkGreystoke
The only input George had on the whole New Jedi Order series was telling them that they could not have Sith for badguys and that's it.

Actually you can add" they can't kill off Luke". The Sith thingy is because in GL's mind Luke ended, for good, the war between the Sith and Jedi. In George's mind, the Sith threat is gone, for good.

Now to get back on topic, do the male Jedi donate...um...how can I put this...eh...sperm? To clinics for artificial inseminations and if they do or you believe they do, would any children born automatically be turned over to the Jedi order (I assume it would be a great honor and prestige for a young women or old to give birth to the next generation of Jedi)?

I am still in the camp that says that children are not taken until they become of age about kindergarten age, maybe less (like about four). Any younger and than that and I just can't see them understanding or coping with the Force at that age. Do you have any idea the attention span of a two or three year old? Now they may also adopt children from orphanages or whose parents have died when the baby was from newborn statis to a couple of years (Baby Ludi?), but to say in their first 6 months from a new mother who may have wanted to be a mother but not a mother to a Jedi, seems wrong to me. Plus what if the parents refuse because they wanted a child to love, not to hand over to, for all intense and purposes, a stranger and the babies MC is through the roof? Maybe this is just another nail in the Jedi coffin? I know in AOTC we will see a different side of the Star Wars universe that I have been waiting to see and that is the galactic populace and public action or opinion. Anyway more kindling for the thinking campfires.

CrazyDubya
26 April 2002, 01:46 AM
Accoding to Star Wars:Galaxies website... in one of the posts by a developer of a game in his discussion of this issue...he stated that the killing of Chewie HAD TO BE CLEARED by GL himself. Any major Issues such as that were to be cleared by GL.

Also, Timothy Zahn wrote somewhere that when writers starting working on the EU, they were given specific points they could not write about... basically Old republic, Clone Wars and Palpatine's Rise. All of this is for obvious Reasons...this was the subject matter of the Prequels.

GL, I am sure pre-screens works himself. If for no other reason than he wants to know how his universe has evolved. AndI think if anything went against a desire of his, it would never see the light of day.

Dark72Jedi
27 April 2002, 03:29 AM
I think in Epsiode I Qui-Gon kind of answered this when he stated this would be a hard path to choose. From what we gather Jedi are usually taken into training at a very young age and groomed into their new role...and that is where Anakin lacks. He comes in a quite bit late at 9 or 10 or whatever he was. The council wants dedicated jedi, where the continuation of the order and its ideals are the all important. As said before love is probably okay, but lust and strong emotions such as that, anger, hate, and envy would not be. I see the jedi as a monkish-samurai (romanticized ideal of samurai) type tradition where you dedicate your life to an ideal

DirkGreystoke
28 April 2002, 02:19 PM
GL, I am sure pre-screens works himself. If for no other reason than he wants to know how his universe has evolved. AndI think if anything went against a desire of his, it would never see the light of day.

George Lucas does not screen the novels, and never has. George did not OK the death of Chewie, not was it Mr. Salivotore's idea...but a command from the editors at Lucasfilm. The screening of novels is handled by Steve Sansweet and the senoir publishing editors of Lucasfilm. The only input George gave for a novel was Cloak of Deception. In an interview a few years back George even admitted to never having even read one of the novels...just to clear up the confusion.