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View Full Version : Vader surviving in FOrce Unleashed



Thomas
18 January 2010, 04:05 AM
Ok so I have a question about the Force Unleashed regarding Vader's life support system, how did he manage to survive for so long after getting his helmet knocked off during the fight? I figured he would have started choking the second it got knocked off and given how long it took for Palpatine to defeat Starkiller, he wouldn't have had time to help Vader before he suffocated.

Master Dao Rin
18 January 2010, 09:41 AM
My impression (contradicted, I'm sure, by the EU) is that Vader's breathing apparatus is not necessary for survival - it only helps him breath through his damaged trachea/esophogus by forcing air down into his lungs. In other words, he can still breathe (witness RotJ end), its just very difficult for him to take even shallow breaths (but he can breathe).

His life support unit (the pacemaker), however, is vitally necessary.

That's always been my take on Vader from the movies.

Thomas
18 January 2010, 05:40 PM
Well all we really have to go by, official canon wise, is Luke's statement about Vader dying if he removed his helmet, hence why I was confused when it came off in Unleashed. I always figured it was an essential part of the life support system.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
31 January 2010, 01:51 PM
I hadn't played Force Unleashed, though if we go by the movies - Vader picked up Palpatine while he was force-lightning Luke to death. In picking up Palpatine, Vader got the transferal of force lighting from Luke unto himself until he dropped ol' Palpy over the banister and down the Deathstar central shaft. Can't imagine what that did to Vader's life support system - heart pacemaker etc.

How much different than the situation was in Force Unleashed, I don't know.

If anything, its the Force Lightning from Palpaine that really screwed with and disabled Vader's life support system. In doing so Vader probably knew it'd be his own sacrifice to save Luke. As Vader said himself while Luke was concerned about removing his helmet , told Luke - "I'm beyond that now" or similar line...

But yeah, lack of helmet and rebreather, Vader probably was able to survive for a little while without it.

There's also Vader's "barometric" atmosphere chamber which he sits within without the helmet. We see the chamber open up and his helmet being affixed in the movies, so once again, the helmet might just be there to complete the look for Vader's "Image".

Again, the helmet and a full face mask is probably redundant and unnecessary where a facial rebreather would work. Its the whole Dark Lord image and foreboding factor the complete setup adds to Vader's reputation.

Without the helmet and facemask, it's probably the equivilant of a person being in a high altitude environment where the air is thinner - less oxygen, and the person isn't acclimatized for it. A person climbing the Himalayas mountains for example - when they reach the camps halfway up to the top, and at some point need to put on the oxygen tanks. Sure, a person can survive for at least a certain amount of time, before adverse affects start to kick in from the constant lack of oxygen.

gmjabreson
31 January 2010, 03:09 PM
Maybe it was in the radio dramatization of ESB, but I do remember reading about the scenes on board the Executor where Vader did have his helmet off.

If I recall it correctly, he was using the force during those times to try to focus strength and energy to breathe on his own.
I can't recall if he was calling on the force to heal his body during those times, or if he was calling on the Dark Side with it's stronger sense of power.

But I do remember reading about why he was able to be in that chamber and have it open, and how he was able to survive during those times.

Master Dao Rin
1 February 2010, 10:04 AM
Yea, I'm not overly fond of "Its because of the Force" to explain every action a Jedi undertakes ...


Originally posted by Thomas
Well all we really have to go by, official canon wise, is Luke's statement about Vader dying if he removed his helmet, hence why I was confused when it came off in Unleashed. I always figured it was an essential part of the life support system.

My take on that line of dialogue from Luke was that if you take off your breathing apparatus, you'll die, because right now the forced air into your lungs is the only thing keeping you alive (your pace maker isn't functioning any more, so only the action of your lungs is keeping the heart pumping the blood).

Think CPR. People pump chest to get breathing happening again ...

coldskier0320
1 February 2010, 10:14 AM
Think CPR. People pump chest to get breathing happening again ...

So the reverse is also true?:raised:

Ardent
2 February 2010, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by coldskier0320
So the reverse is also true?:raised:
Actually, performing CPR on someone who isn't unconscious usually gets you a lot of grunts of pain.

As near as I can tell in the pure chaos that is LFL lately, the latest source is considered to be the correct one as far as canonic status. But I will simply give you the only advice that can really be given in situations like this: you decide for yourself exactly what you want to do as far as Vader being able to breathe outside of a hyperbaric(was it? I can't even remember) chamber/his helmet.

coldskier0320
3 February 2010, 04:46 AM
Actually, performing CPR on someone who isn't unconscious usually gets you a lot of grunts of pain.

Heh, yes. When they start punching you. :D

boccelounge
3 February 2010, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by gmjabreson
... I do remember reading about the scenes on board the Executor where Vader did have his helmet off... he was using the force during those times to try to focus strength and energy to breathe on his own.
I remember that too, gmj. I think it was one of the novels, not necessarily one of the movie novelizations, but one of those post-Zahn novels from the mid-90's.

So "the force did it" is certainly a possibility, though I have to concur with Master Dao Rin's preference to look for something else.


Also, unless anyone objects, I'm moving this to the Rebellion Era forum.

zappo inc
7 February 2010, 08:41 PM
the answer is simple: the video game is wrong. absolutely wrong. on virtually every level.

i'm not saying it's not fun to play.

it's just wrong, from a star wars point of view. this whole vader losing his helmet discussion is proof. More proof is to be found in star destroyers crashing "because of the Force". wtf?

(liked the game, hated it's powergaming-inspired inconsistencies and total roughshod treatment of the series)

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
7 February 2010, 10:47 PM
Point made there Zappo.

(as if SW Battlefront II's spacefighter capture the capitalship wasn't any indication of things gone way over the top of insanity)

On the bright side, just think, be happy there arn't any pumped up on mega steriods force users the movies else thats exactly what we'd be see'ing (and jedi starfighters bouncing around in space like yo-yo balls on a rubber band)

Uron Teff
9 February 2010, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by boccelounge
I remember that too, gmj. I think it was one of the novels, not necessarily one of the movie novelizations, but one of those post-Zahn novels from the mid-90's.
I read that in the novelization of the Return of the Jedi. And as far as I remember Vader was concentrating on all the anger and hatred inside him and thus was able to breath for a few seconds without his mask and breathing system. But then he thought about Luke and lost concentration because of feeling joy about finding his son and fear for his life due to the Emperor.

Nevertheless, I think Vader absolutely needs his helmet to stay alive over an expended period of time, but he is still capable of using the Dark Side to channel the Force into "his lungs".

Remo Moxey
10 February 2010, 06:00 PM
From what I've read the Force Unleashed video game is not now and never was meant to be considered in the Star Wars canon.

Haden Blackman came up with the original concept and wrote the novel/comic/video game. He stated that he pitched the idea to Lucas tentatively about pulling Tie fighters out of the air George said "why not a Star Destroyer".

But this is all coming from memory, so I might be slightly off....lol.