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stoic_75
22 July 2012, 06:24 PM
During the escape from Bespin at the end of ESB, Artoo sprays the pursuing stormtroopers with a fire extinguisher. They fire aimlessly through the cloud with predictable results. My question is why didn't the polarized lenses in the armor's helmet allow them to see through the cloud? Wouldn't CO2 count as thick smoke for targeting purposes? I am going to chalk it up to poor design. The stormtrooper armor, simply put is the Ford Pinto of personal protection. After all, it can't cushion the blow from a rock thrown by a anthropomorphized teddy bear or stop a shot to the chest from a sporting blaster so it is no wonder it failed.

coldskier0320
22 July 2012, 07:23 PM
To be fair, polarization simply blocks polarized light reflections, and it wouldn't allow you to simply 'filter out' the effects of a thick cloud.

boccelounge
22 July 2012, 07:53 PM
And maybe the fire retardant foam actually blocked any passive IR imaging the helmets provide the troopers?

Artoo is a pretty smart guy, after all.

But I do like the anthropomorphic teddy bear line... :)

wolverine
23 July 2012, 12:54 PM
I believe the MFAS in the storm trooper's helmets should have negated most of the penalties they would have received from shooting the cloud, but do think maybe the IR portion might have been suffering cause of CO2.

stoic_75
23 July 2012, 06:28 PM
This calls for some errata:

Stormtrooper Armor....Contains a Multi-Frequency Targeting and Acquisition System (MFTAS) which gives +2D to all Perception checks in darkness, smoke and *other visibility conditions. Also gives +2D to ranged weapon skill uses (such as blaster) against moving targets (those who move more than 10 meters in a round).

*Unless it is caused by a fire extinguisher. Fire extinguishers are available at CVS, Walgreens, Lowes and Home Depot.


For once, I am going to let Lucas off the hook and place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the game designers.

Fingon
24 July 2012, 08:47 AM
Two thoughts: Not all armor may be identical. The troopers may have had specialized equipment for that mission. Also, there is the possibility that R2 was not just spewing some fire retardant, but venting some other chemical--like a refrigerant or something of the sort--which he knew would disrupt the MFTAS. Perhaps something important to his operation, which would make the scene more interesting.

wolverine
24 July 2012, 10:58 AM
And what would his operations require refrigerant for? I can see C02 as that would be good while on the falcon for fighting fires.. but refrigerant??

boccelounge
24 July 2012, 01:22 PM
Well, I see your point, wolverine, but I was thinking in the same direction as Fingon-- that just because we've seen Artoo use the "fire extinguisher" to, you know, put out fires doesn't mean that he used the same compounds against the troopers. Maybe he has internal reservoirs of some sort, and simply used the best mixture he could come up with on the fly. As I said, he's a smart little dude.

And, to stoic, your errata is hilarious, but in a galaxy of FTL ships, laser-swords, and space-wizards, I see no reason to assume that fire extinguishers use the same CO2-based material as on Earth... and if all that other stuff can exist, why can't a droid spray something that obscures optical-enhancement tech? Not really trying to argue your points; I'm just saying it doesn't seem like such a big leap compared to everything else we see in SW-- such as R2-D2 himself! ;)

Sarge
25 July 2012, 09:31 AM
Even on Earth, not all fire extinguishers use CO2. Training in aviation use extinguishers covers half a dozen different compounds, each with different pros and cons in different situations.

I'd expect an astromech droid to be equipped to deal with oil/chemical fires, electrical fires, oxygen/gaseous fires, and metal fires in addition to garden-variety solid flammables. Maybe Artoo mixed up a gas cocktail that was too varied for ST helmets to deal with.

boccelounge
25 July 2012, 03:23 PM
Even on Earth, not all fire extinguishers use CO2. Training in aviation use extinguishers covers half a dozen different compounds, each with different pros and cons in different situations.

I'd expect an astromech droid to be equipped to deal with oil/chemical fires, electrical fires, oxygen/gaseous fires, and metal fires in addition to garden-variety solid flammables. Maybe Artoo mixed up a gas cocktail that was too varied for ST helmets to deal with.
You said it better than I, Sarge. Makes perfect sense to me.

Fingon
25 July 2012, 03:44 PM
Any mechanical system, especially computing systems, needs a cooling unit to keep things from overheating. So maybe not a refrigerant, but some kind of cooling compound. That said, the different types of extinguisher would make just as much sense, I think.

coldskier0320
25 July 2012, 03:53 PM
And what would his operations require refrigerant for? I can see C02 as that would be good while on the falcon for fighting fires.. but refrigerant??

In the scene, this mystery chemical can be seen issuing forth form two separate sources, neither of which seem to be artoo himself. That being said, since he'd obviously just gained access to the Bespin computer system (to open the door to the Falcon's landing pad), I'd say he's using the Cloud City systems, not his own body, to produce this chemical.

From there, it could be almost anything: fire retardant, refrigerant, steam, carbonite (similar to the hose that Luke sprayed into Vader's face in the carbon freeze chamber?)...any of which may have any number of effects on visibility, natural or enhanced.