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stoic_75
6 March 2005, 01:05 PM
Stoic_75: Hello, it's your man on the street here at Disney studios where they are about to announce a new merger. Let's listen...

Michael Eisner: We are pleased to announce a merger a long time coming. Disney has now joined forces with Lucasfilm to produce the greatest family films ever made. Right George?

Lucas: That's correct Michael. It's going to be great. What until you see our new reissue of 'Bambi". The part where Bambi's mother gets shot always bothered me. Way too violent. So we digitally corrected it. Hmm, yes? A question from the back.

Stoic_75: (raising hand) Huh? Digitally corrected?

Lucas: Yes. In the new rerelease, the hunter's hand shakes and he misses wide right. And then the hunter and Bambi's mother become friends. I think that's more upbeat and kid-friendly.

Eisner: And you're going to love the changes we made to the original trilogy. Luke Mousewalker, Princess Minnie and let's not forget Goofbacca!

Stoic_75: ....mumbles something incoherent

Eisner: I'm sorry, I didn't catch that.

Stoic_75: Don't mind me. I'm just trying to find the hollow tooth with the poison in it.

Eisner: Oh come on, you'll ...waitaminut? Stoic_75? Aren't you the guy who caused that incident at the "Pocahontas" premier? Security!

Several bruisers wearing mouse ears and carrying truncheons enter the room.

Stoic_75: It was historically inaccurate! Oh @#?!# (takes off running)
Well that's all the time we have for today, join us next time as I,
<smack!> Oooof! <thud>

cheshire
7 March 2005, 08:58 AM
Man, you need to include a warning before posting something like that, I about cracked a rib trying to keep from laughing at work over the "hollow tooth" deal.

Too hillarious.

IzVenjari
8 March 2005, 01:15 PM
:D Gotta say that's the funniest thing i've read in a few months

Midnight_Marauder
26 March 2005, 11:55 AM
I'm still cracking up at that... too funny. That was the funniest thing I've ever read on this forum since I've joined!

Nightsider
31 March 2005, 02:37 PM
Here, here. Good form!

stoic_75
2 April 2005, 03:39 PM
Of course it's all farce; it would never happen in real life. Lucas and Disney always put out quality products. Oh, how I likes that Jar-Jar.



Originally posted by IzVenjari
:D Gotta say that's the funniest thing i've read in a few months

VixenofVenus
9 April 2005, 11:55 AM
Ok, superlurker here ... but I go away from all civilization for almost a week, read the Ep3 novelization, come back here to see what others think and you decide to almost give me a heartattack!!??

...

(golf clap) Good show old chap! Good show indeed!
:D

Ardent
30 October 2012, 12:36 PM
http://www.slashfilm.com/disney-buys-lucasfilm-new-star-wars-film-2015/

You may all begin to facepalm.

Hush
30 October 2012, 12:47 PM
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/disney-buy-lucasfilm-405-billion-384448

Good god!

Derrynger
30 October 2012, 02:32 PM
too soon it is to know if this could be good, possibly clouded by the dark side the future is

Uron Teff
30 October 2012, 03:21 PM
Another "new" movie? C'mon...

SmugglerJedi
30 October 2012, 03:24 PM
I can see a lot of good and bad coming out of this.

On the one hand, Disney has a lot of resources and they can really put the money behind the film. Since they are making their new films to be post-ROTJ, I believe, that would also force a reboot of the Expanded Universe. This, in my mind, would be a very good thing, since right now the EU is hopelessly screwed up. The last decade has shown that LFL has gone off the rails, and George Lucas hasn't been paying attention to what you could colorfully call "desecration" of his sacred tale. I, for one, would welcome such a reboot.

Also, I have heard many people say in many places that the biggest problem for Star Wars was Lucas himself. This would effectively get Lucas out of the way, reducing him to a "mere" creative consultant. That might please some folks, who were understandably upset with the atrocious dialogue and storylines of the prequels.

On the other hand, Disney could dumb down Star Wars even more to appeal to children and use as merchandising for more Disneyland rides. Leia as a Disney Princess. Talking animals telling us the power of friendship. Finding Solo. None of these are really Star Wars. (Ok, except the last one.) I don't terribly fear this, since SW has been damaged a lot already, but it is a concern. Of course, they may not do that, but still take it in a bizarre direction anyways. It depends who they choose to do the films. Joss Whedon? He could probably pull it off and make it awesome. But Zac Snyder? Christopher Nolan? del Toro? Ewwww......those would be ruinous choices. And since this is three years away, we just have no idea at this point.

Perhaps the best thing for us to do is to be cautious optimistic. There is a good chance they will suck, but there is also a good chance they won't. Perhaps, if we just accept that it will not be the same Star Wars we first saw in 1977 (well, you, I'm a bit young), but something slightly different, we will accept it more. I think that's probably the best course of action to take right now, and just look on and trust in the Force that Disney won't screw it up too badly.

EDIT: Also, a blog post of mine that explores this topic further: http://jdkolassa.net/?p=945

Seghast
30 October 2012, 03:50 PM
I can't decide if this is good news or bad news yet.

Much as I love the original trilogy, the prequels were a letdown for me and the "special editions" were an abomination, leaving me questioning George's ability to tell a good story anymore. Indy 4 only made those doubts run deeper.

As I float around the net, I've noticed a lot of sites and fans are already treating this like the death toll for Star Wars, making comments about how it will be dumbed down and Mickey Mouse'd to death. In truth, I think Lucas has been toning it down for years, though I'm not sure all of it was intentional, and I don't think Disney can do any worse. In fact, I think Disney gives us a small sliver of hope on the horizon.

Anyone here enjoy Avengers? Iron Man? Captain America? Thor? I was initially very skeptical of Disney purchasing Marvel comics, but so far that has turned out exceptionally well; Avengers was, to me, the defining comic movie us geeks have been waiting on. If Disney can handle all the Marvel properties so well, maybe they can revitalize Star Wars and make it epic once again. The fact that they're keeping Lucas around as a creative consultant is a good thing as well; he did create Star Wars and has some great ideas, but his ability to tell the tale of those ideas is lacking anymore.

It's too early to fret about the future of Star Wars; I think right now it's best if everyone adopts a "wait and see" attitude and tries to remain optimistic.

Fingon
30 October 2012, 05:02 PM
I really hope they try to do something new. . . I honestly would love to see an EU film which introduces new protagonists and keeps the original cast around as supporting characters. Or a Revan film. Or a completely new Old Republic film. Really, I just want them to try to chart new territory.

Ardent
30 October 2012, 06:28 PM
Threads merged and placed in the appropriate forum (for now).

hisham
30 October 2012, 07:26 PM
I'm good with this. Cautiously optimistic. If Disney let Kathleen Kennedy run Lucasfilm like Kevin Feige run Marvel Studios, we should be for a treat. Mark Hamill is just the right age for a post-Vong movie trilogy as an intelligent, venerable Jedi Master, three steps in front of everyone else. Let younger actors do the action scenes.

Also, no Rick McCallum! YEAH!

Grimace
30 October 2012, 07:31 PM
I'm actually decently happy about this news. It'll be good to have new minds and fresh ideas for Star Wars. Plus, taking the reigns away from Lucas is potentially a good thing.

TheCegorach
30 October 2012, 07:48 PM
Plus, think of all the new material for SW RPGs, of whichever flavor! New life for these boards! New conversions! I'm pretty excited.

Treefrog
30 October 2012, 08:41 PM
For me, I'm actually guardedly optimistic about this. Disney has shown itself to be able to tell good stories before. To be honest, I'm flabbergasted about this news (gotta pinch myself that it isn't April 1st).

Episode VII will be great on one key point: Lucas won't be directing it!!! That should make it a good right there.

Edit:
Mark Hamill tweeted this about a 1/2 hour ago:
https://twitter.com/hamillhimself/status/263502391872208897

Ronin
31 October 2012, 12:42 AM
When I first read the news this morning I checked the date but nope, today isn’t April 1st, it’s Halloween (whether that proves to be an ill omen or not, we’ll discover in 2015, I guess).

One question my wife put to me did get me thinking. She herself has no interest in SW but knows (from me) that a lot of SW fan are less than happy with the current state of SW and GL’s constant toying with his creation (and the mountains of novels, dilution of the... ah, you all know what I mean).
“Which would you prefer to hear, `George Lucas is producing more Star Wars movies` or `Disney is going to produce Star Wars movies`?”
It’s a good point. The former would probably make me cringe (or at the very least roll my eyes and sigh) while the latter makes me stop and wonder. A breath of new life for the franchise, perhaps.

Fantasy Flight must be very happy about the potential new influx of players for their RPG(s).

Colour me wary-but-hopeful.

Sithspawn
31 October 2012, 01:12 AM
FFG must be singing & dancing in the aisles. Presuming their offices have aisles.

And like Ronin, I thought it must be some sort of prank at first. But hey, I think this could be good news. What have Disney done lately that's any good... The Avengers. Disney are not chumps and I believe this could be exactly what Star Wars needs.

As for the expanded universe... I really hope they ignore it and just carry on with the movies. But it will be interesting to see if Luke, Han & Leia are in it, and who gets cast.

Grade
31 October 2012, 01:27 AM
Hi guys.

So in one way or another, you guys already know this, but if you don't, then it is breaking news:

Disney Bought Lucasfilms Ltd!

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/10/disney-buys-lucasfilm/

Grimace
31 October 2012, 04:30 AM
Yeah, we've been chatting about it here: http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?488717-Not-Sure-if-Want

Darth Fierce
31 October 2012, 04:42 AM
Hi guys and girls, long time no see, but I just saw the news about the sale this morning. Frankly I've not been a big fan of most live-action films that Disney has done. There's been a few good ones, but here's hoping Disney doesn't produce a craptastrophe like they've done in the past with films like, "The Haunted Mansion," "Popeye," or "Flubber." I'd rather see something dark and adult oriented than the kid friendly stuff that I imagine is coming up. *Crawls back under rock*.

Fingon
31 October 2012, 05:43 AM
Darth Fierce! You're alive! Good to see you again, man.

Here are a few things (http://www.toonbarn.com/star-wars/star-wars-weekends-strike-disney/) the internets have created for us on the tropic.

hisham
31 October 2012, 05:53 AM
Darth Fierce, Lucasfilm will still be producing the new movies under Kathleen Kennedy's leadership but Lucasfilm is now owned by Disney. Like Pixar's Toy Story 3 and Marvel Studios' The Avengers. So it's not like Disney will jump into the deep end with a bunch of new people kicking out the old.

Which is why I'm hopeful.

Darth Fierce
31 October 2012, 09:26 AM
Oh, it's quite probable that things will work out fine, but I'm crossing my fingers we don't get a Star Wars with everybody breaking into song after a while...lol. I wonder what this all could mean for the rumored live-action TV series.

Treefrog
31 October 2012, 09:52 AM
I think that a live-action TV series' time came and went more than 5 years ago. I think that Episodes VII-IX will take up too much time to do it, and the premise of the series was flawed in my eyes.

Ardent
31 October 2012, 01:22 PM
Merged again. Less confusing title.

stoic_75
31 October 2012, 02:12 PM
This little piece of satire backfired quite nicely, didn't it?

Me and my big mouth.

Moridin
31 October 2012, 03:18 PM
I, for one, am actually quite excited. I love Disney, and they've done right by Marvel and Muppets and Pixar, I'm sure they'll do right by LFL and Star Wars. I'm even excited about the possibility of movies, since all-new stories are SO much easier to tell than prequels, which have all kinds of restrictions on them.

Of course, in three years, everyone may be mocking this optimism. We'll see...

IzVenjari
31 October 2012, 03:42 PM
Count me as another who's pretty happy with the news.

Darth Fierce
1 November 2012, 04:50 AM
This news got me brainstorming about new characters for the franchise:

--Jedi Padawan Bam Bee, saved by Master Skywalker after Bam's mother was killed in an Imperial Remnant attack
--P1N-0K0, plucky protocol droid who dreams of being a real human

not to mention

--the evil Imperial Captain Huuk

Darth Fierce
1 November 2012, 04:53 AM
Darth Fierce! You're alive! Good to see you again, man.

Here are a few things (http://www.toonbarn.com/star-wars/star-wars-weekends-strike-disney/) the internets have created for us on the tropic.

Yes, I've been exploring the Unknown Regions (e.g. life beyond Star Wars and work), but I wanted to drop back by for a while. I'm glad the site is still up and running. :D

Treefrog
1 November 2012, 07:30 AM
This news got me brainstorming about new characters for the franchise:

--Jedi Padawan Bam Bee, saved by Master Skywalker after Bam's mother was killed in an Imperial Remnant attack
--P1N-0K0, plucky protocol droid who dreams of being a real human

not to mention

--the evil Imperial Captain Huuk

That's just wrong on so many levels!

Lucas Carr
1 November 2012, 08:12 AM
This little piece of satire backfired quite nicely, didn't it?

Me and my big mouth.

At least you called it publicly.

The last thing I called was Bin Laden being killed by a military force, but I never brought my prediction up in public.

I'm looking forward to see what will happen with Star Wars now.

Darth Fierce
2 November 2012, 06:35 AM
I'm wondering...how much of the established post-Endor EU do people think will be destroyed/need to be retconned with the new films? Hands up if you think the answer is "A lot!"

IMHO if they pick up the films following right after Endor and want to stay true to the established EU, it would make sense that the next film be about Bakura. However, I don't think that's a movie many people outside the die-hard fans would pay money to see.

And correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but is the plan put forth by Disney to make Episodes VII-IX and then produce a Star Wars film every one or two years afterwards?

Treefrog
2 November 2012, 03:12 PM
I'm wondering...how much of the established post-Endor EU do people think will be destroyed/need to be retconned with the new films? Hands up if you think the answer is "A lot!"

IMHO if they pick up the films following right after Endor and want to stay true to the established EU, it would make sense that the next film be about Bakura. However, I don't think that's a movie many people outside the die-hard fans would pay money to see.

And correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but is the plan put forth by Disney to make Episodes VII-IX and then produce a Star Wars film every one or two years afterwards?

A Bakura movie would be a travesty, IMO. As Lucas mentioned, it's an all-new, original storyline.

Grimace
2 November 2012, 05:46 PM
I, for one, hope that the Disney writers ditch a sizable portion of the post-Endor EU and come up with something new. New minds, hopefully fresh, new ideas, and new direction. For those that want to stick solely with "canon", let them have an aneurism attempting to figure out how to retcon it. For those of us that don't give a fig about sticking with "canon", let Disney wipe the slate clean and start with interesting new ideas!

DentArthurDent
3 November 2012, 07:49 AM
Not gonna lie, I may be in the minority but I'm actually very excited about this. I flat-out would not have paid money for any more Star Wars movies if Lucas had remained in control. Such was my disappointment with the prequels and the various monkeying around he did with the originals. And an excellent argument was made for bringing back Mark Hamill, which would be awesome and which I agree with wholeheartedly. But in the meantime, I'll rely on others to do my speculating for me, so carry on chaps!! B)

Darth Fierce
3 November 2012, 08:01 AM
I, for one, hope that the Disney writers ditch a sizable portion of the post-Endor EU and come up with something new. New minds, hopefully fresh, new ideas, and new direction. For those that want to stick solely with "canon", let them have an aneurism attempting to figure out how to retcon it. For those of us that don't give a fig about sticking with "canon", let Disney wipe the slate clean and start with interesting new ideas!

Truthfully I could do without a good deal of the post-Endor EU too, including the god-awful KJA take on the franchise, but depending on when they set the new movies it would be nice if there was some passing reference to various stories. For example, considering the fact that the new movies would probably be set several years after the original trilogy, it'd be nice to hear some references to the Thrawn Trilogy. Just don't throw the entire baby out with the bathwater is what I'm saying.

Darth Fierce
3 November 2012, 08:05 AM
A Bakura movie would be a travesty, IMO. As Lucas mentioned, it's an all-new, original storyline.

You think??? Oh come on, entechment...Ssi-Ruuk...who wouldn't love that??? Kidding, of course.

DentArthurDent
3 November 2012, 08:07 AM
You think??? Oh come on, entechment...Ssi-Ruuk...who wouldn't love that??? Kidding, of course.

Ugh. Just... ugh. I read the first fifth of that book and nearly threw it away. Luckily, it was a library book, so I could throw it in the return bin with gusto.

Sarge
3 November 2012, 09:48 AM
How many people here thought the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie totally blew the SW prequels out of the water? If Disney brings that sense of fun and adventure to new SW films, they just might recapture the magic of the OT.

Kayle Skolaris
4 November 2012, 06:18 AM
Well, I'm psyched. And for those of you concerned for the EU, do bear in mind how little attention Lucas pays to it anyway. Oh sure, he may have embraced Coruscant, but he rather coldly rejected everything else Zahn came up with.

*idle thought* you know, the Tesseract looks an awful lot like a Holocron...

Armadious
4 November 2012, 08:12 AM
I am also hopeful, like so many other studios, Disney can do good film when they get the right people in the right place. Now to be honest there are some screenwriter and directors out there whose selection will cause me to not watch the film. Just as there are some authors in novel series who I don't bother reading while I enjoy others.

I believe its already been said that Ep 7-9 are going to be original stories, however they intend to release a new film every 2-3 years after. Never know how they will chose to focus the development of the Universe post Lucas inspired stories despite that he is remaining a Creative director of them.

In the question about the Expanded Universe, for most of us I think its always been a game of picking and choosing which piece of fluff to include and which not too, its been that way rather heavily since the prequels came out. For me this means tossing out probably 50% of the pre-1998 (ish) material and about 90% of the post, because it doesn't fit in how I define the SW universe. I will probably have to do the same with the future films, just as I have to with current material like the often horrible but occasionally neat Clone Wars cartoons.

Kayle Skolaris
4 November 2012, 09:10 AM
Yeah, I've always been a cherrypicker when it comes to EU material. Even going so far as to pick and choose elements of specific novels and stories to keep and ignoring the rest. I liked the idea of the super-secret research facility known as the Maw introduced by KJA even while I hated Admiral Janeway, er... sorry, wrong franchise. Admiral Daala. And I despised Kyp Duirron while liking a lot of the other Jedi Apprentices he created such as Tionne, Streen, and Cilghal.

Fingon
4 November 2012, 09:14 AM
I liked the idea of the Maw a lot as well. The execution, not so much.

I'm glad they'll be starting over, though I would not mind seeing some of the more popular elements from the EU making an appearance (Mara Jade?)

Darth Fierce
5 November 2012, 06:00 AM
I know it's highly unlikely, but one has to wonder if Boba Fett would be "resurrected" for the sequel trilogy. I mean, I'm sure I know Lucas' thoughts on the matter, but one never knows, given how Lucas gave into fan appeal in the EU. Plus, with Lucas no longer behind the driver's wheel, I could see at least a cameo by Fett.

Kayle Skolaris
5 November 2012, 08:16 AM
I know it's highly unlikely, but one has to wonder if Boba Fett would be "resurrected" for the sequel trilogy. I mean, I'm sure I know Lucas' thoughts on the matter, but one never knows, given how Lucas gave into fan appeal in the EU. Plus, with Lucas no longer behind the driver's wheel, I could see at least a cameo by Fett.

Only if Jeremy Bulloch supplies the voice.

Darth Fierce
5 November 2012, 10:21 AM
Only if Jeremy Bulloch supplies the voice.

That would be nice, but personally I wouldn't mind it that much if it were Temuera Morrison's voice. Still, Bulloch had a nice rasp to his voice, and you'd imagine spending time in the Sarlacc would lead to that.

Darth Fierce
8 November 2012, 05:56 AM
So, supposedly Harrison Ford has shown some interest in being in the new movies (at least VII)...could Solo's return be another indicator that Fett would return as well?

Seghast
8 November 2012, 03:54 PM
So, supposedly Harrison Ford has shown some interest in being in the new movies (at least VII)...could Solo's return be another indicator that Fett would return as well?
Ford is only interested in returning if they kill off Han, and I doubt Disney/Lucasfilm would dare do that.

Kayle Skolaris
8 November 2012, 07:18 PM
Ford is only interested in returning if they kill off Han, and I doubt Disney/Lucasfilm would dare do that.

Ford has always had a rather peculiar hatred of Han that I never really understood.

Grimace
9 November 2012, 04:57 AM
Some people really seem to hate the character that propelled them to fame. Shatner went through a phase where he hated Kirk. Nimoy hated Spock for a while. Ford will probably hate Han Solo until he retires from movies completely and has time to think about what made him as popular as he became.

Darth Fierce
9 November 2012, 07:50 AM
Some people really seem to hate the character that propelled them to fame. Shatner went through a phase where he hated Kirk. Nimoy hated Spock for a while. Ford will probably hate Han Solo until he retires from movies completely and has time to think about what made him as popular as he became.

Of course, apparently Ford also loves Indiana Jones.

Treefrog
9 November 2012, 10:17 PM
Hopefully, we'll get more info when the new year comes.

Whill
10 November 2012, 08:08 PM
Lucasfilm: NEW STAR WARS MOVIES ANNOUNCED AS DISNEY ENTERS AGREEMENT TO ACQUIRE LUCASFILM LTD. (http://www.starwars.com/news/new-star-wars-movies-announced-as-disney-enters-agreement-to-acquire-lucasfilm-ltd/index.html?utm_source=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.starwars.com%2Fdata%2Fheadlines.xml&utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=starwars-site_rss)
Disney: DISNEY TO ACQUIRE LUCASFILM LTD. (http://thewaltdisneycompany.com/disney-news/press-releases/2012/10/disney-acquire-lucasfilm-ltd)

George Lucas will donate billions to charity (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/disney-deal-george-lucas-will-384947)

Mark Hamill weighs in on the future of 'Star Wars' -- EXCLUSIVE (http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/10/31/mark-hamill-star-wars-episode-vii-disney/)
Harrison Ford open to idea of Han Solo role ('Star Wars' sequel) -- EXCLUSIVE (http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/11/05/star-wars-sequel-harrison-ford-han-solo-exclusive/)
Carrie Fisher -- Damn Right I Wanna Be in the New 'Star Wars' (http://www.tmz.com/2012/11/07/carrie-fisher-star-wars-disney-video/)

Star Wars 7 Plot Will Be "an Original Story," Says Lucasfilm Source (http://www.eonline.com/news/358685/star-wars-7-plot-will-be-an-original-story-says-lucasfilm-source)
Michael Arndt to Write Screenplay for Star Wars: Episode VII (http://starwars.com/news/michael-arndt-to-write-screenplay-for-star-wars-episode-vii.html)
Michael Arndt (http://www.vulture.com/2012/11/star-wars-episode-vii-may-have-found-its-writer.html)

I am very pleased with this news. This guy is not only a big fan, but he's also a Star Wars scholar who really understands Star Wars cinematically.

NEW VIDEO SERIES: A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE FUTURE OF STAR WARS (http://www.starwars.com/news/a-discussion-about-the-future-of-star-wars/index.html?utm_source=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.starwars.com%2Fdata%2Fheadlines.xml&utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=starwars-site_rss)

The second video: George Lucas, Keeper of the Flame.

Star Wars Episode VII just keeps getting better and better!


I, for one, hope that the Disney writers ditch a sizable portion of the post-Endor EU and come up with something new. New minds, hopefully fresh, new ideas, and new direction. For those that want to stick solely with "canon", let them have an aneurism attempting to figure out how to retcon it. For those of us that don't give a fig about sticking with "canon", let Disney wipe the slate clean and start with interesting new ideas!
I agree with every bloody word!

Ronin
11 November 2012, 07:09 PM
The writer of Toy Story 3, eh?
I'd say that's a good thing.
I dare to say I'm starting to feel excited.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
11 November 2012, 08:39 PM
The writer of Toy Story 3, eh?
I'd say that's a good thing.
I dare to say I'm starting to feel excited.

Me too. Especially given that Disney bought out Marvel Studios and did a high quality job with Spiderman, Captain America, Thor, The Avengers for production values. These weren't exactly the typical kids Bambi cartoon type movies either. That fact alone, perhaps gives me hope and looking forward to a new Star Wars trilogy that will blow all of us out of our minds and craving for more.

I would hope that they do keep some of the EU stuff in there, and progress onwards from Ep VI rather than totally toss out everything and "re-invent" Star Wars from the ground up. If anything I do hope they keep Timothy Zahn's contributions to the EU.

Disney did re-do the Spiderman franchise, retconning some of the storyline, so that does leave me to wonder just what will they change or revise about Star Wars.

If anything, (and lets be sensible about this); Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, Mark Hamil, are understandably way older now, so it would hard to just pickup where Ep VI leaves off.

There's 2 ways Disney could go with this: Jump ahead in the SW timeline about 30yrs:

A.) And continue on with the adventures of Han Solo, Princess Leia, and Luke Skywalker...

B.) Introduce a whole new group of heroes, a younger cast to carry on the torch, while Han Solo and the rest of the former cast, be supporting characters.

That being said, I'd also have to wonder about some of the EU aspect - will Disney have kept other elements like Han and Leia's marriage, and their three kids - Jacen, Jaina, and Anakin? What about Luke and Mara Jade?

I'd also have to wonder about the Empire, if there was anything left of it, or what became of it by then? in the EU, it was still around, just closed in and secluded, known as the Imperial Remnant. Although there was no shortage of Imperial Warlords from the various formerly Empire controlled systems, who once in a while decided to try start a new Empire (or return the Empire to its former glory).

The NJO is definitely something I could do without.

I would say more likely it could very well be that we end up seeing a rebirth of the Republic, a return to the grand golden age, and very likely a fresh insurgence of a few Sith lords... OR heck, it could be the return of the Republic, but with both Jedi and Sith existent and in growing numbers, with occasional clashes until something really rises to a boil... Lets say if Luke did start up a Jedi Academy on Yavin, and being more lenient with the Jedi tenet, allowing for marriages and families, etc, it would be inevitable it would also foster quite a grey area and eventually a group of Sith minded individuals.

Ahh well, just some musings on the subject of what a new trilogy story arc could contain ;)

Kayle Skolaris
12 November 2012, 01:18 AM
Me too. Especially given that Disney bought out Marvel Studios and did a high quality job with Spiderman, Captain America, Thor, The Avengers for production values. These weren't exactly the typical kids Bambi cartoon type movies either. That fact alone, perhaps gives me hope and looking forward to a new Star Wars trilogy that will blow all of us out of our minds and craving for more.

I would hope that they do keep some of the EU stuff in there, and progress onwards from Ep VI rather than totally toss out everything and "re-invent" Star Wars from the ground up. If anything I do hope they keep Timothy Zahn's contributions to the EU.

Disney did re-do the Spiderman franchise, retconning some of the storyline, so that does leave me to wonder just what will they change or revise about Star Wars.

Nitpick, but a significant one. Disney doesn't have the movie rights to all Marvel characters, Spidey being one of them. None of the Spidey films have been in-canon with the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The in- canon properties are Thor, Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk (specifically DEcanonizing Ang Lee's movie) Captain America and The Avengers.

Spidey, Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Elektra, Punisher, Fantastic Four, X-Men, X-Men Origins, X-Men First Class, Blade, and basically every other character remotely based on a Marvel character from the 21st century is NOT in-canon with the MCU that The Avengers was built around. All those little easter eggs in the X-Men films showing Stark Industries crates are nothing more than that.

Lucas Carr
12 November 2012, 02:03 AM
Me too. Especially given that Disney bought out Marvel Studios and did a high quality job with Spiderman, Captain America, Thor, The Avengers for production values. These weren't exactly the typical kids Bambi cartoon type movies either. That fact alone, perhaps gives me hope and looking forward to a new Star Wars trilogy that will blow all of us out of our minds and craving for more.

I would hope that they do keep some of the EU stuff in there, and progress onwards from Ep VI rather than totally toss out everything and "re-invent" Star Wars from the ground up. If anything I do hope they keep Timothy Zahn's contributions to the EU.

Disney did re-do the Spiderman franchise, retconning some of the storyline, so that does leave me to wonder just what will they change or revise about Star Wars.

If anything, (and lets be sensible about this); Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, Mark Hamil, are understandably way older now, so it would hard to just pickup where Ep VI leaves off.

There's 2 ways Disney could go with this: Jump ahead in the SW timeline about 30yrs:

A.) And continue on with the adventures of Han Solo, Princess Leia, and Luke Skywalker...

B.) Introduce a whole new group of heroes, a younger cast to carry on the torch, while Han Solo and the rest of the former cast, be supporting characters.

That being said, I'd also have to wonder about some of the EU aspect - will Disney have kept other elements like Han and Leia's marriage, and their three kids - Jacen, Jaina, and Anakin? What about Luke and Mara Jade?

I'd also have to wonder about the Empire, if there was anything left of it, or what became of it by then? in the EU, it was still around, just closed in and secluded, known as the Imperial Remnant. Although there was no shortage of Imperial Warlords from the various formerly Empire controlled systems, who once in a while decided to try start a new Empire (or return the Empire to its former glory).

The NJO is definitely something I could do without.

I would say more likely it could very well be that we end up seeing a rebirth of the Republic, a return to the grand golden age, and very likely a fresh insurgence of a few Sith lords... OR heck, it could be the return of the Republic, but with both Jedi and Sith existent and in growing numbers, with occasional clashes until something really rises to a boil... Lets say if Luke did start up a Jedi Academy on Yavin, and being more lenient with the Jedi tenet, allowing for marriages and families, etc, it would be inevitable it would also foster quite a grey area and eventually a group of Sith minded individuals.

Ahh well, just some musings on the subject of what a new trilogy story arc could contain ;)

There was 20 years between episode 3 and 4, so I wouldn't be surprised if they did something similar before episode 7.

And from what I've heard, Anakin, the son of Han Solo, died because Lucas didn't want another character with that name. And I've heard similar things about Luke getting married.

I would agree with you that keeping Han and Leia getting married and Luke training new Jedi would be great.

wolverine
12 November 2012, 12:24 PM
From everything i have read, disney did little for the avengers/thor etc.. they were already done, disney just didn't step in to change them.

Grade
12 November 2012, 03:52 PM
As long as the Sith don't make a return, I'm okay with everything else. If they bring the Sith back, I feel the future movies will suffer the same symptoms of the EU. It will stagnate on an endless focus of Jedi vs Sith.

Having said that I'm okay for the occasional Dark sider to show up.

Darth Fierce
13 November 2012, 06:02 AM
Truth be told, I'm kind of afraid that it's going to be Jedi vs. Sith redux. From many people's perspective (especially those people who haven't read any EU), what is Star Wars if it isn't Jedi vs. Sith? Sure there's the Hutts and other criminal elements, but is that enough to base a movie, let alone a trilogy on? As Palpatine put it, it's probably going to be civil war without end.

wolverine
13 November 2012, 12:51 PM
If aything, i say focus on the Xwing novels!

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
13 November 2012, 07:29 PM
If aything, i say focus on the Xwing novels!

Hey, you've got a really good point there. The articles do suggest that it will be an original story, meaning, not a movie adaptation of one of the novels.

But, on the flipside, your right, they could actually do more of a "Top Gun" or "Iron Eagle" style Rogue Squadron type storyline. There's alot of wide-open area they could go with that, since even the novels only cover a handful of stories. it would be original for the movie aspect, a fresh focus, and it still would be very much Star Wars. And a former Imperial Warlord would make for a great plot-point. There could be an X-Wing type flight school / academy, be it based on a planet or capital ship like a Mon Cal MC80.

:edit / addendum:
If anyone's ever had the opportunity to play all or any of the X-Wing (and Tie Fighter) space / flight sim games from the early 90's, those were tones of fun. The entire game revolving around you as a pilot and part of the Rebel Alliance (and later in the Tie fighter edition, being a fighter pilot for the Empire). That included everything from pilot training in the proving grounds, to seeing through the completion of an actual campaign.

Vanger Chevane
14 November 2012, 08:22 AM
Hey, you've got a really good point there. The articles do suggest that it will be an original story, meaning, not a movie adaptation of one of the novels.

But, on the flipside, your right, they could actually do more of a "Top Gun" or "Iron Eagle" style Rogue Squadron type storyline. There's alot of wide-open area they could go with that, since even the novels only cover a handful of stories. it would be original for the movie aspect, a fresh focus, and it still would be very much Star Wars. And a former Imperial Warlord would make for a great plot-point. There could be an X-Wing type flight school / academy, be it based on a planet or capital ship like a Mon Cal MC80.

:edit / addendum:
If anyone's ever had the opportunity to play all or any of the X-Wing (and Tie Fighter) space / flight sim games from the early 90's, those were tones of fun. The entire game revolving around you as a pilot and part of the Rebel Alliance (and later in the Tie fighter edition, being a fighter pilot for the Empire). That included everything from pilot training in the proving grounds, to seeing through the completion of an actual campaign.

I tend to agree, the X-Wing novels were refreshing as it wasn't all The Skywalkers and Friends. Showed that there was much more depth to the Rebellion than had be previously given attention.

wolverine
14 November 2012, 12:44 PM
Thanks. I felt the ability of those novels to not only focus on the "Little people' but actually have some die (soon too) rather than script immunity all (or most) was very refreshing.

Kayle Skolaris
30 November 2012, 02:03 AM
A thought just occurred to me... This could lead to a special edition DVD/Blu-Ray release of a watchable version of the dreaded Star Wars Holiday Special.

FVBonura
2 December 2012, 08:51 PM
Greetings my brothers,

I guess my opinion will hopelessly be the minority around here. Oh well... :rolleyes:

I have invested a fairly significant portion of my financial resources to Star Wars products over the last three decades. I for one was most disappointed by the prequels and the continuity disaster they produced to both the Expanded Universe and the Old Trilogy. I wont bore you with the specifics, I wrote a rather exhaustive "Prequel Commentary" (http://deckplans.00sf.com/Research/Prequel.html) to outline my research on the topic. The bottom line, I am amazed at how quickly some of you are willing to keep buying products from a company that bulldozers over its older material rendering it "obsolete" when you paid for said products with your hard earned money. I guess Star Wars is in the mess it's in because so many people will just buy anything and everything with the "Star Wars" logo on it. Alas... :(

I was further saddened to see the "Prequel Sympathizers" suffer disappointment, similar to my own, when the "Clone Wars" movie and TV show was released with its own special recipe of fresh continuity blunders. As many of you know, I have refused to purchase any Star Wars products produced after May 18, 1999 and I continue to encourage and try to convince my brother and sister SW fans to do likewise.

Enter The Walt Disney Corporation and a new "Third Age" to the Star Wars Phenomenon.

I offer to you my brothers a proposal, instead of sitting around waiting to see what Disney will do, why not start writing some letters to Disney and telling them what you really want?????

I myself have done so twice, my first letter implored Disney to divorce itself from all things Star Wars from the last 13 years and my second letter advised Disney to make Episode VII, "Star Wars - Heir to the Empire". I remind you that the best way to get what you want is to have an opinion, ask for it, and when you are offered garbage, vote "NO!" with your wallets and boycott shoddy products. If Star Wars is ever to improve, it will be from the buying behaviors of its discerning fans.

This link may be of use to those wishing to speak to Disney.

Disney - Contact Corporate Communications (http://thewaltdisneycompany.com/contact-us/corporate-communications)

Food for thought my brothers, ponder this please...

Vanger Chevane
3 December 2012, 08:30 AM
Greetings my brothers,

I guess my opinion will hopelessly be the minority around here. Oh well... :rolleyes:

I have invested a fairly significant portion of my financial resources to Star Wars products over the last three decades. I for one was most disappointed by the prequels and the continuity disaster they produced to both the Expanded Universe and the Old Trilogy. I wont bore you with the specifics, I wrote a rather exhaustive "Prequel Commentary" (http://deckplans.00sf.com/Research/Prequel.html) to outline my research on the topic. The bottom line, I am amazed at how quickly some of you are willing to keep buying products from a company that bulldozers over its older material rendering it "obsolete" when you paid for said products with your hard earned money. I guess Star Wars is in the mess it's in because so many people will just buy anything and everything with the "Star Wars" logo on it. Alas... :(

I was further saddened to see the "Prequel Sympathizers" suffer disappointment, similar to my own, when the "Clone Wars" movie and TV show was released with its own special recipe of fresh continuity blunders. As many of you know, I have refused to purchase any Star Wars products produced after May 18, 1999 and I continue to encourage and try to convince my brother and sister SW fans to do likewise.

Enter The Walt Disney Corporation and a new "Third Age" to the Star Wars Phenomenon.

I offer to you my brothers a proposal, instead of sitting around waiting to see what Disney will do, why not start writing some letters to Disney and telling them what you really want?????

I myself have done so twice, my first letter implored Disney to divorce itself from all things Star Wars from the last 13 years and my second letter advised Disney to make Episode VII, "Star Wars - Heir to the Empire". I remind you that the best way to get what you want is to have an opinion, ask for it, and when you are offered garbage, vote "NO!" with your wallets and boycott shoddy products. If Star Wars is ever to improve, it will be from the buying behaviors of its discerning fans.

This link may be of use to those wishing to speak to Disney.

Disney - Contact Corporate Communications (http://thewaltdisneycompany.com/contact-us/corporate-communications)

Food for thought my brothers, ponder this please...

Of course, it'd also be prudent of Disney to have a presence on this site, possibly even posting ideas for a fan-based, engineering style Failure Analysis. Guaranteed, you post something dodgy on this here Holonet, you'll have a people picking it apart, even more if there's a decent core concept worth salvaging - just give the fans who do much of the brainsweat for you a little credit. :D

Vanger Chevane
3 December 2012, 08:31 AM
Greetings my brothers,

I guess my opinion will hopelessly be the minority around here. Oh well... :rolleyes:

I have invested a fairly significant portion of my financial resources to Star Wars products over the last three decades. I for one was most disappointed by the prequels and the continuity disaster they produced to both the Expanded Universe and the Old Trilogy. I wont bore you with the specifics, I wrote a rather exhaustive "Prequel Commentary" (http://deckplans.00sf.com/Research/Prequel.html) to outline my research on the topic. The bottom line, I am amazed at how quickly some of you are willing to keep buying products from a company that bulldozers over its older material rendering it "obsolete" when you paid for said products with your hard earned money. I guess Star Wars is in the mess it's in because so many people will just buy anything and everything with the "Star Wars" logo on it. Alas... :(

I was further saddened to see the "Prequel Sympathizers" suffer disappointment, similar to my own, when the "Clone Wars" movie and TV show was released with its own special recipe of fresh continuity blunders. As many of you know, I have refused to purchase any Star Wars products produced after May 18, 1999 and I continue to encourage and try to convince my brother and sister SW fans to do likewise.

Enter The Walt Disney Corporation and a new "Third Age" to the Star Wars Phenomenon.

I offer to you my brothers a proposal, instead of sitting around waiting to see what Disney will do, why not start writing some letters to Disney and telling them what you really want?????

I myself have done so twice, my first letter implored Disney to divorce itself from all things Star Wars from the last 13 years and my second letter advised Disney to make Episode VII, "Star Wars - Heir to the Empire". I remind you that the best way to get what you want is to have an opinion, ask for it, and when you are offered garbage, vote "NO!" with your wallets and boycott shoddy products. If Star Wars is ever to improve, it will be from the buying behaviors of its discerning fans.

This link may be of use to those wishing to speak to Disney.

Disney - Contact Corporate Communications (http://thewaltdisneycompany.com/contact-us/corporate-communications)

Food for thought my brothers, ponder this please...

Of course, it'd also be prudent of Disney to have a presence on this site, possibly even posting ideas for a fan-based, engineering style Failure Analysis.

Guaranteed, you post something dodgy on this here Holonet, you'll have a people picking it apart, even more if there's a decent core concept worth salvaging. Just give the fans who do much of the brainsweat for you for free a little credit. :D

boccelounge
3 December 2012, 03:56 PM
they could actually do more of a "Top Gun" or "Iron Eagle" style Rogue Squadron type storyline. There's alot of wide-open area they could go with that, since even the novels only cover a handful of stories. it would be original for the movie aspect, a fresh focus, and it still would be very much Star Wars. And a former Imperial Warlord would make for a great plot-point. There could be an X-Wing type flight school / academy, be it based on a planet or capital ship like a Mon Cal MC80.
You had me at "Iron Eagle." God I loved that cheesy movie... had the soundtrack on cassette. ;)

boccelounge
3 December 2012, 04:09 PM
I guess my opinion will hopelessly be the minority around here. Oh well...

Food for thought my brothers, ponder this please...

Good points Frank; Disney will certainly have a delicate balancing act to do when it comes to keeping long-term fans happy (a massive community that can't even come to internal agreement), and opening up the franchise to a new generation.

Personally, I care less about strict "canon continuity" than I do keeping the style and feel consistent. And when it comes down to it, all I really want is a good story, well told. Since the announcement of the Disney acquisition, I've been thinking a lot about the new Star Trek film(s). There was a lot I liked about that film, but it seems that every time I re-watch it, the less I like the changes they made to my conception of "traditional Trek storytelling."

Not ready to give up on "New Trek," but I hope the new SW bosses can manage things a little better.

And please, don't make it all Sith and Mandalorians. Please? Mandalorians are the SW equivalent of the X-Men's Wolverine: a great character that just gets shoved down your throat in an effort to maximize the marketability of every X-Men project. All in moderation, Disney, if you please.

- CY

FVBonura
3 December 2012, 08:54 PM
Vanger:

I concur, Disney should seek the wisdom of this esteemed body. Sadly I suspect they lack the humble vision necessary to seek those who could help them the most (namely us). I suspect you just gave me an outstanding idea for my next letter to Disney (hint hint). :D

Bocce:

Balancing act is an understatement. I consider Disney's optimal solution to produce "Heir to the Empire" thus canonizing the very novel that began the Star Wars Renaissance of 1991-92. My personal survey data indicates the most SWRPG players started playing in the year 1992, hardly a surprise. If it wasn't for the "Thrawn Trilogy", we may not have met and this forum might not even exist. Food for thought... ;)

I disagree with your "good story" position. Devoid of continuity, a story can quickly unravel and result in chaos.


“ How do we know that Mother's dead? Where's her grave? Who saw her die? Did you? ”

— Master Luke Skywalker, “Before the Storm”, p. 114

“ Your mind powers will not work on me, boy. I am not affected by your human thought pattern. I was killing your kind when being a Jedi meant something. ”

— Jabba the Hutt, “Return of the Jedi” (novelization), p. 30

“ Because I designed most of the Death Star! ”

— Qui Xux, “Jedi Search”, p. 270

“ The swamps had hidden Yoda for centuries, and it was certainly isolated from the mainstream of galactic traffic ... but Dagobah had no appropriate facilities either. ”

— Princess Leia Organa Solo, “Jedi Search”, p. 302

Some more food for thought... :D :D :D

Whill
4 December 2012, 08:19 PM
Hey, I love your deckplans!


My personal survey data indicates the most SWRPG players started playing in the year 1992, hardly a surprise. If it wasn't for the "Thrawn Trilogy", we may not have met and this forum might not even exist. Food for thought... ;)

I bought the WEG Star Wars RPG, read the rules and began planning my first campaign in 1987, and I started running the game in 1988. But I may be a minority on this site.


Balancing act is an understatement. I consider Disney's optimal solution to produce "Heir to the Empire" thus canonizing the very novel that began the Star Wars Renaissance of 1991-92.

The renaissance you refer to is the formation of the modern Star Wars EU. The movies are and should be above and beyond the EU. The sales figures of the prequel trilogy and blu-ray collection indicate that the there is a much greater majority of Star Wars film fans that have never (and likely will never) read a single Star Wars novel, so I don't think the start of the modern EU had any substantial effect in creating new film fans.

And it has already been confirmed that the new movies will be original stories, not based on the Thrawn trilogy or any other existing novels (see my links in this thread above).


I disagree with your "good story" position. Devoid of continuity, a story can quickly unravel and result in chaos.


“ How do we know that Mother's dead? Where's her grave? Who saw her die? Did you? ”

— Master Luke Skywalker, “Before the Storm”, p. 114


“ Your mind powers will not work on me, boy. I am not affected by your human thought pattern. I was killing your kind when being a Jedi meant something. ”

— Jabba the Hutt, “Return of the Jedi” (novelization), p. 30


“ Because I designed most of the Death Star! ”

— Qui Xux, “Jedi Search”, p. 270


“ The swamps had hidden Yoda for centuries, and it was certainly isolated from the mainstream of galactic traffic ... but Dagobah had no appropriate facilities either. ”

— Princess Leia Organa Solo, “Jedi Search”, p. 302

Some more food for thought... :D :D :D

You have presented a great argument for the current EU canon being completely chucked for the sake of the new movies, and why Disney should just start over with "EU2". Maybe EU2 could actually fulfill the Lucasfilm EU's failed mission of not contradicting the movies and itself. And no one said they had to stop publishing the current EU. The current owners of the Star Trek franchise still publishes stories set in the original timeline.

The new movies should not in any way be restricted by the mountains and mountains of the existing, self-contradicting continuity. The EU should always take a backseat to the films. It doesn't have to be one or the other for story and continuity. The new movies can have a good story and continuity both. It would be much easier to maintain a good level of continuity if the new Star Wars films only have to be consistent with the previous movies and each other.


This and all other products that take place after the events depicted in Return of the Jedi are the author's vision of what may have happened. The true fate of the heroes and villains of the Star Wars universe remains the exclusive province of George Lucas and Lucasfilm, Ltd.

~Heir to the Empire Sourcebook, 1992

The only thing different now is that George Lucas has sold his exclusive province over Star Wars with Lucasfilm.

Grimace
4 December 2012, 08:48 PM
The new movies can have a good story and continuity both. It would be much easier to maintain a good level of continuity if the new Star Wars films only have to be consistent with the previous movies and each other.


This is what I'm hoping for. Continuity with the previous movies and each other, and a good story. I don't care if they base it on new stuff, as long as it has those aspects.

Whill
4 December 2012, 09:52 PM
Official News:

Disney Chief Alan Horn on Star Wars VII director: I would say you'll know soon (http://www.vulture.com/2012/11/disney-chief-on-how-he-kept-star-wars-7-secret.html)

George Lucas: ‘I Don’t Really Have Much To Do’ As ‘Consultant’ On Star Wars: Episode VII (http://www.accesshollywood.com/george-lucas-i-dont-really-have-much-to-do-as-consultant-on-star-wars-episode-vii_article_73245)

This should make a lot of fans happy (the ones who hate most everything Old Lucas has done with the franchise since 1997).

Rick McCallum leaves Lucasfilm (http://www.starwars.com/news/an-independent-future-for-rick-mccallum/index.html)

This should also make the purists pleased. Rick McCallum was Lucas' producer for all Star Wars theatrical productions from 1997-2005 (Special Editions and Prequels). Some of you may feel Old Lucas' main sidekick may have been too programmed by Old Lucas to provide any positive contributions to Disney Star Wars now.

Leading Rumors:

The Hollywood Reporter Sources: Lawrence Kasdan, Simon Kinberg Lock Deals to Write and Produce 'Star Wars' Installments (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-lawrence-kasdan-simon-393459)

Many fans should be very happy to have Kasdan, who co-wrote The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi and Raiders of the Lost Ark, involved with writing and production. That gives the sequel trilogy a lot of purist cred right there.

Is Matthew Vaughn in Talks to Direct STAR WARS: EPISODE VII? (http://collider.com/star-wars-episode-7-matthew-vaughn/208715/) (11/5)
Matthew Vaughn's actor friend implies the director is in talks for Star Wars (http://www.totalfilm.com/news/matthew-vaughn-confirmed-for-star-wars) (11/28)

FVBonura
5 December 2012, 06:49 AM
Whill:

Thank you bro, I am glad you like the Deckplans.

If you started playing the SWRPG in 1987-88 you represent the second largest demographic in the RPG hobby according to my survey data. You are in good company.

I do realize we EU aficionados are a minority in the greater scheme of the SW phenomenon. Keep in mind a political minority convinced a nation to rise up against its oppressors and declare independence in 1776. I for one believe one man can change the world with a new idea so I wont let the masses of illiterate American SW fans discourage my efforts. :D

You are quite right when you say the movies "should" trump the EU. However that did not happen over the last 13 years. The movies were terrible story-telling at best, the movies contradicted what we knew about SW for the previous 22 years, thus the movies failed to be prequels by very definition. The Prequels only served to start a galactic civil war amongst Star Wars Fans.

In spite of some of the rather lackluster story arcs of the EU between 1991-99, they stayed fairly consistent internally and harmonized externally with the original movies from 1977-83. The prequels failed to perform this very essential task. How can we even call the Prequels "STAR WARS" when they fail to tell a consistent back-story with what we viewed in 1977-83???? :(

I disagree that we had a minor role in the STAR WARS Renaissance. There are far too many casual fans who have not read any of the books who know Mara Jade and Grand Admiral Thrawn for your claim to be so. The EU aficionados have been the advocates for STAR WARS, we have braved the cold sleepy years and held vigil for the prequels for 16 years. Our passion for the genre started an avalanche in 1991.

Confirmed story or not, if Disney is 1% more intelligent and 2% wiser than George Lucas, they will be reading and seriously considering any correspondence they are receiving on this topic. Translation: Please talk to them and share your opinion and be heard brother. B)

To all:

I put to all of you this thought, what better way to reach the greater masses of illiterate SW fans, with the grandeur of the Expanded Universe, than to produce a book adaption motion picture??? Not just any novel but an adaptation of the most successful STAR WARS novel ever.

To Whill and Grimace:

Keep in mind by "chucking" the existing EU, you are also asking many of us to "chuck" thousands of dollars of STAR WARS Products we worked hard to pay for. The other question you need to ask, what if Disney integrates the Episode 1-3 material in the new movie? Would that not still bring us back to square one (i.e. a broken galaxy)???

Personally I am shocked that people like yourselves who have used these RPG products for a quarter century are willing to toss them in favor of a new movie that may be poisoned with the likes of goofy gungans, yammering battle droids, flying astromechs, and who knows what other Prequel abominations.

Also be mindful, a genuine "REBOOT" of the franchise would also require a remake of the Old Trilogy but Disney wont even do a remake of "The Wizard of Oz" so I am suspecting the Old Trilogy is still very much sacrosanct. Under these parameters, this new movie will be a bandage at best, not a true cure.

Food for thought...

Grimace
5 December 2012, 08:44 PM
I didn't say I'd accept whatever they throw at me. I said that I hope they make something worthwhile and consistant with the movies (Star Wars, Empires Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi). If that means dumping some or most of the conflicting material from the EU, then so be it. If they want to use some of the material from the EU, and work it into a new vision, one that doesn't have "goofy gungans, yammering battle droids,and flying astromechs", then I won't have a problem with it. If they include goofy gimmicks to cater to the kiddies in a dunce sort of way, then I won't like the new material.

I look at as this: I didn't let the prequels interfere with my vision of what happened before Star Wars. I won't let whatever comes out after Return of the Jedi to affect my vision of Star Wars material UNLESS it's good, worthwhile material.

Disney has come out with some very kiddie type movies. They've also come out with some pretty decent movies that I enjoy immensely (the original Pirates of the Caribbean and the Avengers for example). I'm hoping that they strike gold with a new Star Wars movie. But if they come out with a kiddie movie, I'm just as likely to ignore any of it just as I've ignored the prequels.

Whill
5 December 2012, 11:40 PM
Here is a nice look at the big picture: http://www.statisticbrain.com/star-wars-total-franchise-revenue/


I put to all of you this thought, what better way to reach the greater masses of illiterate SW fans, with the grandeur of the Expanded Universe, than to produce a book adaption motion picture??? Not just any novel but an adaptation of the most successful STAR WARS novel ever.

I've got several responses to that:

(1) It is true that the majority of money-spending Star Wars fans do not read any books, but it is extremely offensive to refer to them as "illiterate". Choosing not to read and not being able to read at all are two completely different things. True illiteracy is a tragedy.

(2) You also seem to presume that Disney is interested in greatly expanding the current Star Wars novel publishing consumer group. Look at the franchise since 2005. Tons of books sold and Lucas said there will be no more movies, ever. Then Disney buys Star Wars. What is the big difference now? New movies can be made. The Disney Star Wars franchise is like the previous Star Wars franchise, PLUS new movie sequels. Star Wars novel sales figures are nothing to sneeze at, but they are small percentage of the profit potential of the franchise. I see no reason why Disney would not expect the publishing money machine to continue pretty much like it has, but the BIG money is in movies. Suggesting they should base the movie on a novel for the purpose of selling more novels is like saying they need to spend a million dollars to make a thousand dollars. More books in general are sold in the years movies are released because movies sell books, not the other way around.

(3) Your premise is flawed anyway because the vast majority of movie-goers and movie-buyers do not read any books ever. So even if they loved an Heir to the Empire movie, that doesn't mean they will suddenly be inspired to read a book for the first time since school (Their reasoning is 'I've seen the movie so I don't have to read the book' or 'I'll wait for the movie'). Most of the people that would read the book (who haven't already) would be people who read movie novelizations of movies they like, and those people already buy movie novelizations made from original films. A lot of people that have already read the HttE novel already have it or would not read it again. An original movie's novelization will sell more new books than a movie made from a 20-year-old book would.

(4) Disney knows the biggest movie and franchise profit potential is for the sequels to have an original story. It's unknown territory and even many skeptics will pay to see it out of curiosity. No one can be prejudiced against the story because they've already read the book and didn't like it. No one can be disappointed because the casting doesn't match 20 years of imagining the characters. No one can predict anything about the movies with certainty. There is an element of surprise! It's NEW, not old. And there will be a whole slew of new toys. New spin-off novels and reference books with completely new material.

(5) The Thrawn Trilogy is about the classic trinity Luke/Han/Leia (until the very end). So should they re-cast all the human film characters? I doubt anyone would accept anyone other than Harrison Ford as Han, and the movies would just be bogged down by fan comparisons of all the re-cast roles.

(6) Or should they shift the plot 30 years into the future to account for the original actors current ages? Could you imagine Carrie Fisher pushing 60 and pushing out twins? And while I'm sure that Hamill and Fisher would accept any bone thrown at them, Ford will not play Han as a leading role again. And shifiting the Thrawn Trilogy into the future would "destroy" the EU continuity anyway.

(6) Either way, while minions of Zahn fans go gaga over Mara Jade despite her being an ultra-cliched thinly-disguised amalgamation of Luke/Han/Leia/Vader (with red hair and green eyes to boot), I doubt the throngs of non-Star-Wars-book-reading Star Wars fans could accept the sudden, unexpected marginalization of the classic trinity at the climax of the Last Command film. And you think some people have a problem with Ewoks now? The Thrawn Trilogy of films would go down in cinematic history as the Worst. Ending. Ever.

(7) Everything I've typed above is moot because, as stated multiple times previously, it has been confirmed that the sequel trilogy with not be based on any existing novels. And if that wasn't enough confirmation, they have even specifically stated it will NOT be based on the Thrawn Trilogy. Not. Going. To Happen. Instead of submitting requests to Disney to do something that's not going to happen, I suggest trying to begin the mourning process and getting over it.




To Whill and Grimace:

Keep in mind by "chucking" the existing EU, you are also asking many of us to "chuck" thousands of dollars of STAR WARS Products we worked hard to pay for. The other question you need to ask, what if Disney integrates the Episode 1-3 material in the new movie? Would that not still bring us back to square one (i.e. a broken galaxy)???

Personally I am shocked that people like yourselves who have used these RPG products for a quarter century are willing to toss them in favor of a new movie that may be poisoned with the likes of goofy gungans, yammering battle droids, flying astromechs, and who knows what other Prequel abominations.

Also be mindful, a genuine "REBOOT" of the franchise would also require a remake of the Old Trilogy but Disney wont even do a remake of "The Wizard of Oz" so I am suspecting the Old Trilogy is still very much sacrosanct. Under these parameters, this new movie will be a bandage at best, not a true cure.

No one is saying the new movies will be reboots, or that the movie series will or should get rebooted. The new films have clearly been referred to as sequels, which means they follow the continuity of the existing films. Unlike Lucas who has been a stubborn tyrant over his empire, I think it is likely that Disney will try to avoid some of the fan "controversies" of the prequels. It is possible for the new movies to not contradict prequels, but also not refer to them too overtly at the same time. (They wouldn't dare use the dreaded "M" word ever again, would they?)

The movie series and EU are two separate entities. It has always been that way, so if you still don't see that, you must unlearn what you have learned. The new sequel films can maintain continuity with the existing films, while disregarding the continuity of the current EU. Disney can make an EU2 that is maintains continuity with all the films and itself, but also disregards the continuity of current EU.

And for all of you diehard EU1 customers, they can even still publish EU1 novels that maintains continuity with the pre-Disney EU but not the new films. If Star Trek can publish things taking place in the continuity of the previous and current franchises simultaneously, why can't Star Wars do that too? If there's a market for EU1, then you'll probably see that.

But what completely boggles my mind the most is this completely irrational mindset I keep running into with disgruntled fanboys of Star Trek, and Star Wars now. Even if they completely stopped publishing EU1 material in favor of the new EU2, I don't understand why people think they have to throw away all of your current Star Wars stuff? Why would you do that? What's wrong with it? Would you suddenly not like it anymore? No one can make you toss all your existing books and things. If you still like them, you'll keep them. Disney does not have a time machine. They can't go back and erase EU1 from ever being published. Your post-RotJ novel collection will not disappear like people in the photographs in Back to the Future.

Star Wars is not all or nothing. It's an increasingly large buffet. Buy what you want to buy, and don't buy what you don't want to. Keep what you want to, and don't keep what you don't want. Ignore the continuity you don't like, and make-up your own continuity band-aids. Use your own imagination. Only you can define your own personal Star Wars universe (or multiverse).

No matter what happens in the future of the Star Wars franchise, I'm not chucking my current collections of Star Wars movies, RPGs, reference books, novels, etc. And I suspect that I'll add a thing or two to my Star Wars collection in the future. B)

FVBonura
6 December 2012, 07:13 AM
Whill:

First off, let me thank you for that epistle, it gives me a treasure trove of concepts to ponder. It might take me more than one post to process it but lets study at least some of your conclusions.

Also, thank you for that statistics link. I like the way the data was presented graphically and it does shed some light on the scope of the issue. However, please keep this in mind, the data presented on statisticbrain.com:


Spans many decades
Covers the good selling years with the bad (I wish it had separated the data by year).
Makes no mention if its adjusted for inflation (which would/could give the newer numbers more weight)


It was my intention to be offensive when I referred to casual SW fans as being "illiterate". I make no apology for such statements.

Sidebar: Seven years ago I befriended a young man who claimed to be a "Star Wars Fan", and he loved the prequels when I first met him. I put "Han Solo at Stars' End" in his hands and proceeded to have him read every novel from Brian Daley up to Zahn's "Vision of the Future" (c. 1998). I was overjoyed to slowly watch as this illiterate SW Fan bloom into a learned SW scholar. He no longer likes the prequels, big surprise. Its one of the few happy SW events, in my life, to come of late. I'll keep working on this front encouraging as many SW Fans, as I can, to read the EU.

To answer your question the "big difference" now is I believe Disney will listen to top-end fans like ourselves much more so than George listened to us. Also for clarity, I am less interested in new or old book sales but am passionate about preventing the old novels from being crushed under a capital-scale retcon steamroller. I want the greater SW masses to experience Zahn's masterpiece. I want to show the world that SW is not just a franchise for children but that it can also grow up with its fans and still speak to everyone. This has nothing to do with book sales and has everything to do with preserving a treasure and preserving SW history. I apologize if I implied anything to the contrary. :D

Whill I strongly suspect Disney has come to the very same conclusions you outlined above and they are choosing to try and heal the franchise by growing out and up with new branches and new fruit. My concern is new branches sprouting from a rotted tree are just as likely to be torn off the worm-ridden trunk and collapse when the first storm comes. Perhaps with your help and the aid of everyone here, we can impart some wisdom to their strategy???

To all:

I decided to post here not to postulate what Disney is thinking or what they may do. I came here to convict the lot of you to take action and speak up not just in here but to Disney directly.

My brothers it is very easy to complain, to scoff, to wonder, and to theorize what may be for the future of STAR WARS.


" if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did, you will become an agent of evil "

-- Master Yoda

It takes a person of character and discernment to stand by what they believe and what they are passionate about, articulate those ideas into words, and share them with those who now have power over said passions. There is still time to speak my brothers. The question is, will you remain here to speak amongst yourselves or are your opinions, your desires, and your wishes important enough to warrant a bigger audience??? The choice is yours...

FVBonura
10 December 2012, 08:14 AM
Whill:

If the new movies follow the continuity of the existing films, they will run into problems if they attempt to harmonize with the prequels. If Disney is wise, they will harmonize with the Old Trilogy exclusively.

I suspect "Midi-chlorians" may be back as well as a myriad of other more subtle prequel problems. Unless Disney treats the prequels like a cancerous tumor, they risk polluting their new work. Truncating May 19, 1999 to present has been the main reason I was able to maintain sanity and consistency in my own campaigns. I hope Disney can come to the same conclusion. It is our job, all of us, to tell them what we want (hint hint).

I agree the movies and the EU have been mostly treated as two separate universes. The problem is George has been most inconsistent in that treatment. Need I remind you of Dash Rendar's Outrider over Mos Eisley in the Special Edition of "A New Hope" or the use of the name Coruscant? Are you aware of these as well?


“ That's quite a fleet for bottling up one undefended dust cloud. What do they think this is, the Clone Wars? ”

— Lando Calrissian, “Lando Calrissian and the Starcave of ThonBoka”, pp. 15-16


“ He was supposed to go for one of the flashy chrome-plated yachts that had been collecting dust on the front row, not the freighter I'd been quietly upgrading on the side for myself. ”

— Lando Calrissian, “Heir to the Empire”, p. 219


“ I'm glad you called this meeting, President, because I was about to call one myself. You need to know that there's a no-confidence movement in the Senate. There will be a vote shortly. ”

— Senator Meido the Adinian, “The New Rebellion”, p. 278

If the EU and the prequels were truly treated as separate, or as the same universe that would be fine but what has been done can be kindly referred to as a piecemeal hodgepodge of inconsistency. It needs to be one or the other and it is not. At the root of this is that George was jealous of Zahn's success and chose to eradicate the EU for upstaging him. I will include the deaths of Chewbacca, Anakin Solo, and Mara Jade as exhibits A, B, and C respectively. :D

STAR WARS is not STAR TREK. I would like to think we are a higher caliber of fan and enthusiast. TREK has been an inconsistent mess since 1966 and the STAR WARS EU has prided itself on keeping things organized.

I have little patience or tolerance for all this inconsistency when people like Ann C. Crispin can do her homework and write a trilogy of Prequels for Han Solo, write brilliantly, and include references from every obscure corner of the franchise up to that point. No excuse, it can be done, even in the STAR WARS Galaxy. We need to hold Disney to a high standard lest we will all be stuck with more junk we have had thrown at us over the last 13 years. Food for thought...

More to come...

Sarge
11 December 2012, 09:18 AM
Whill:If the EU and the prequels were truly treated as separate, or as the same universe that would be fine but what has been done can be kindly referred to as a piecemeal hodgepodge of inconsistency. It needs to be one or the other and it is not.

No it doesn't. In my game I use what works for me and ignore what I don't like. I hope Disney does the same.

Sarge
11 December 2012, 09:19 AM
Whill:STAR WARS EU has prided itself on keeping things organized.

Surely you're not serious.

Kayle Skolaris
11 December 2012, 05:38 PM
Surely you're not serious.

Oh, he's serious, alright. Seriously deluded. Frankie's gone off the deep end into pure nutcase zealot mode since I ended my association with him. He talks about Star Wars like it's a religion now. The EU is largely garbage and using Zahn's novels for the sequel trilogy would be stupidity of the worst sort. Very few Star Wars novels have ever been suited to screen adaptation. Zahn's novels are not among the lucky few.

Fingon
11 December 2012, 08:33 PM
I think this argument boils down to a question of ownership: who owns Star Wars? While Lucas legally owned Star Wars and its rights, many of the fans felt that they too had some amount of claim to it, and that their preferences and choices should be respected. And, strictly speaking, that isn't the case. Legal ownership means that you really can do whatever you want to it. I would argue that those who helped produce the films also have some amount of creative and intellectual ownership, as they were actively involved in making the films which now have such a following. In that respect, the authors and developers who have produced comics, books, games, and other media also have some amount of ownership. In contrast, the fans don't have the same type of ownership, except those who have themselves created more material to be enjoyed (fan films, for example). Granted, the fans have financed much of Lucas's success and will now fund Disney's but there is a world of difference between purchasing products which have already been made and creating your own material.

For that reason, I really don't think that the producers of Star Wars "owe" the fans anything. It is the right of producers, especially Lucas, to do with the series as they will, just as it is our right to explore Star Wars however we want in our games and stories. That does not mean that we need to approve of everything the producers do (I enjoy very little in the Prequel material), and if we feel that we want to have a bigger influence, any one of us is free to seek a job with Lucas Film, try to publish a Star Wars book, create a fan film, or contribute to the larger community in any way we feel inclined to.

Also, I don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" type of Star Wars fan. My nine-year-old cousin who knows very little of the original films but loves the Clone Wars series is not "less" of a fan than I am (if anything, he is MORE obsesses with Star Wars than I am), he's just a different type. He finds different material entertaining than I do, and, honestly, were I nine I would probably love the Clone Wars as well. I certainly did not care about the subtitles between the character interactions, or Yoda's monologue on the force, or literary patterns found in the films when I was young; I cared about lightsabers and explosions.

In the end, Star Wars in not one thing. It means many different things to many different people, and what some find compelling other will find wanting. So, like Grimace and Sarge said, the material we don't enjoy does not need to change what Star Wars means to us.

Fingon
11 December 2012, 08:34 PM
And perhaps we should refrain from personal attacks here.

boccelounge
12 December 2012, 04:02 AM
And perhaps we should refrain from personal attacks here.

Thanks, Fingon; I entirely agree. I might also note that I've learned, over many, many years of beating my head against immovable walls, that sometimes walls are just immovable, and there's no sense beating your head against them.

This applies to many things, for example:

- Really heavy walls

- People who still think the Pittsburgh Steelers are an "elite" team

- What I like to call "ultra-literalists"-- people who must have everything make perfect sense and be spelled out in every minute detail in every way or it is utterly BAD, and for whom anyone who disagrees with them in any way is utterly FOOLISH.

You can't argue with people like this; to argue is to investigate: to espouse a view and test the strength of that view in hopes to convince others to agree with that view, or to challenge them to provide a superior and opposing view. Most people, those I like to call "rational people," or "grown-ups" see an argument as a chance to put one's opinion to the test of others' opinions; in the process, one's original argument can be strengthened or weakened, but the end result will always be a stronger and more rational opinion.

As opposed to these "rational people," or "grown-ups," there are numerous people who turn the arrangement on its head-- rather than starting a rational discourse with the intention of proving or disproving it on rational grounds, they start the investigation with a pre-supposed conclusion, and will doggedly resist any attempts to deflect the predetermined destination of their sacred-idol-like predetermined answer. And by doggedly I mean annoyingly, endlessly, sanctimoniously, and usually on the internet.

To put it briefly, I find it wise, in forums of discussion such as this, to a) identify ultra-literalists as quickly as possible, then b) stop conversing with them.

It may not be easy, and it certainly isn't intellectually satisfying, but it sure beats the head-on-wall-beating that certainly, inevitably, unstoppably follows from trying to "argue" with them in a rational way.

Just my 2cr. YMMV.


EDIT: Unrelated to this post, I suggest to the forum mod that this thread be moved to Rumors-and-Speculation (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/forumdisplay.php?21-Rumors-and-Speculation); given the topic and the potential import it has for the future of the SWRPG, it seems to fit there better than here. Just a minor point.

Grimace
12 December 2012, 05:34 AM
I will move this thread to the Rumors, but at the same time I'll issue a word of caution: If a particular person or particular idea a person is conveying is against your thinking or your beliefs, then I suggest you refrain from post in this thread. Don't start insulting a person. Don't respond to insults thrown at you.

If this thread gets off on a tangent of who thinks so-and-so is in whatever mental capacity, I will be forced to close it. Please act in a professional, courteous manner towards each other, or simply avoid interacting with certain people.

Grimace
12 December 2012, 05:34 AM
I will move this thread to the Rumors, but at the same time I'll issue a word of caution: If a particular person or particular idea a person is conveying is against your thinking or your beliefs, then I suggest you refrain from post in this thread. Don't start insulting a person. Don't respond to insults thrown at you.

If this thread gets off on a tangent of who thinks so-and-so is in whatever mental capacity, I will be forced to close it. Please act in a professional, courteous manner towards each other, or simply avoid interacting with certain people.

FVBonura
12 December 2012, 06:49 AM
Surely you're not serious.

As Kayle (Dan) said yes I am. I have been up and down the Bantam/Spectra novels from 1991-1999 and perhaps barring "Darksaber" (Piranha Beetle Conservation) none has dared to contradict the Old Trilogy. Most of the internal inconsistencies I suspect have more to do with interpretation than revisionism. The Prequels, by means of contrast, have blatantly disagreed with the Old Trilogy with no regard for what was filmed in 1977-83.


Frankie's gone off the deep end into pure nutcase zealot mode since I ended my association with him. He talks about Star Wars like it's a religion now.

I love you Dan, and lets be honest, how are you any different from me? :D Lets be even more honest, who here could not be logically branded as having at least some measure of zeal for the STAR WARS universe??? Would it even be possible to have a Holonet Forum without zeal for STAR WARS?


I think this argument boils down to a question of ownership: who owns Star Wars?

A very good question Flingon and perhaps the most relevant. If you looked around my desk, you would agree I own quite a bit. :D

Billions of dollars of SW property are owned by us the consumers. Does anybody remember the Studebaker??? Why don't they make cars any more??? Clearly regardless of corporate ownership, the American public decided if Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler, or if Studebaker was to survive. The same is true of Star Wars. Ultimately we the fans decide with our wallets. We the fans are powerful and I wish we could think speak out, and act as such.


And perhaps we should refrain from personal attacks here.

I would speak in Kayle's (Dan's) Defense. He has neither insulted nor attacked me. He has a right to his opinion because he is 100% correct and I have much tougher skin than most when people are honest about me. Thank you Dan for your words, you know me all too well.

I think it's impossible to be truly objective and its likewise impossible to approach any subject devoid of presuppositions about said topic. STAR WARS evokes passion and that is a good thing. STAR WARS has value to all of us and we guard and defend her like precious metals and jewels. Again this is good. My call as always is to "pass on what you have learned" teach those who do not know and most importantly use your power to speak out, in your own words, and open the eyes of those in power (Disney).

Has anyone here sent Disney an e-mail yet???

I am composing my third, food for thought... :D

Grade
12 December 2012, 04:27 PM
Oh, he's serious, alright. Seriously deluded. Frankie's gone off the deep end into pure nutcase zealot mode since I ended my association with him. He talks about Star Wars like it's a religion now. The EU is largely garbage and using Zahn's novels for the sequel trilogy would be stupidity of the worst sort. Very few Star Wars novels have ever been suited to screen adaptation. Zahn's novels are not among the lucky few.

What do you considered in, Star Wars EU novels, are the lucky few suited for screen adaptation.

Kayle Skolaris
12 December 2012, 04:59 PM
It's been too long since I read any of them for me to throw out any names.

boccelounge
12 December 2012, 06:54 PM
I've read a few I wanted to throw out...

FVBonura
12 December 2012, 08:54 PM
I might also note that I've learned, over many, many years of beating my head against immovable walls, that sometimes walls are just immovable, and there's no sense beating your head against them.
I have been thinking a great deal about this statement all day Bocce. Thank you bro. I realize I too have been beating my head against a heavy wall for 13+ years. I took a moment today to take a long hard look at that heavy wall and was surprised to find it shifted from its foundation and had many cracks. Let me clarify:

Way back in good old 1996, I worked with Dr. Robert B. K. Brown and Professor Curtis Saxton on their respective STAR WARS commentary sites. Back then if you criticized George Lucas and or STAR WARS, in any way, you got a quality napalm bath from the STAR WARS Fans of the day. The only thanks we got for all our troubles was a thank you acknowledgement in A. C. Crispin's "Rebel Dawn" because she actually used our research in her trilogy. Back in 1996 that heavy wall was spotless, solid, and firmly resting on its foundation.

Today Disney owns STAR WARS, I walked into this thread, trashed George, trashed the Prequels, and I don't even feel warm. To be honest, it's a slight bit cold in here, no offense please.

So what happened Bocce??? It appears some heavy walls will move if you beat on them, with your head, for a decade and a half. The very people who defended George and defended the Prequels are now very hard to find today. Sadly many are gone for good and Disney will have to work a theatrical miracle to get them back.

I honestly think pretentious fanboys like myself (guilty as charged) wore the old man down. I think that is why he gave most of the 4 billion away. He was exhausted and could not walk around in public without encountering a critic. Now he can say to these critics, "I don't own STAR WARS any more, take it up with Disney."

If a wall is made by a man, it can be breached by a man. Disney is a new wall. Maybe this time around, we can fabricate a door in the wall, and get them to work with us. Food for thought Bocce and thanks for something to think about today bro... :D

Vanger Chevane
13 December 2012, 08:32 AM
What do you considered in, Star Wars EU novels, are the lucky few suited for screen adaptation.

Personally I think the Rogue Novels have a lot to offer, the only tough bit is re-creating Classic Movie Characters like Wedge, Janson, Ackbar & the Inner Council. Largely new characters in a familiar-yet-expanded setting.

Frank, I recall the prequel-production thread started by a Guest Account on killing Jedi. I recall some pretty fantastic & difficult methods being posted, then I mentioned it's fairly easy to go with multiple-direction blaster fire. The thread sort of dwindling, then BAM! AotC comes up with "swarming fire" and zero mention of the Holonet nor the people who worked out the most plausible method for Order 66.

If I hadn't spoke up I wonder what they would've done. Every Clone Commander being shipped a large crate of Vornskrs? :P

FVBonura
13 December 2012, 09:29 PM
Frank, I recall the prequel-production thread started by a Guest Account on killing Jedi. I recall some pretty fantastic & difficult methods being posted, then I mentioned it's fairly easy to go with multiple-direction blaster fire. The thread sort of dwindling, then BAM! AotC comes up with "swarming fire" and zero mention of the Holonet nor the people who worked out the most plausible method for Order 66.
Wow, I think I vaguely recall that. Don't feel too bad Vanger, remember Brandon Koller? He made up a blue-skinned, Red-eyed Duros with a cowboy hat and trench coat. He used him in my SWRPG campaign back in 2001-02. Brandon made the mistake of sharing his outstanding character sketches online. Fast forward to 2009, [drum-roll] enter Cad Bane. Clearly somebody liked the look of Brandon's PC at LFL. Likewise do you think Jar Jar's diminished role/appearance in Ep2 and 3 was a coincidence after the caustic fan fallout of 1999???


If I hadn't spoke up I wonder what they would've done. Every Clone Commander being shipped a large crate of Vornskrs? :P
Maybe they would have had to use the correct solution, Mandalorian Shock Troopers. 8o

People like author Ann C. Crispin watch this forum for ideas. She admits it in the front of "Rebel Dawn", so why not George or any other STAR WARS writer???

I think this time around we will do Disney and ourselves a huge favor being part of the solution instead of being just a bunch of grumbling spectators.

So far my idea of sending Disney some well-worded e-mails from all of us has had a rather lackluster response in this thread. Sadly I have seen more of the same in several other forums/blogs that I have been pestering the past two months. So am I wrong to even suggest that this esteemed body of fans has something to contribute to STAR WARS? By helping Disney, you will help yourselves to a better galaxy. Think about it please...

Lucas Carr
29 December 2012, 03:30 AM
I like OT. I like NT more. I've read perhaps 10-20 Star Wars novels and the six novelizations on top of that. I don't know why reading the novels should stop a person from liking the prequels. And I can't recall any apparent contradictions that can't easily be solved. Such as R2 flying, those rockets were obviously removed or permanently malfunctioned or whatever in the 19 years between 3 and 4. Thus no contradiction.

Whill
1 January 2013, 10:39 PM
Obi-Wan Kenobi: The truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Yes, all of the apparent contradictions between trilogies can and were easily resolved, so the issue at hand is more a matter of each individual fan's acceptance (or lackthereof) of the resolutions. In my experience, many disgruntled prequel-haters choose not to even consider the resolutions because it is easier for them to maintain their hatred if all of their intitial criticisms remain intact in their minds.

Qui-Gon: Your focus determines your reality.

And it is obvious that some fans disagree, but I feel it is possible for Disney-Lucasfilm to make new Star Wars films that do not outright contradict the prequels, but at the same time do not refer to them much either. Just because Joe Average-Fan can't imagine how that is possible doesn't mean that professional movie-makers can't devise it. But it is inevitable that many of the same fans that are still disgruntled about the prequels retconning the previously established EU are just going to be even more upset that the new films are disregarding the EU.

Anyway, here are some updates.

Disney Completes Acquisition Of Lucasfilm (http://www.deadline.com/2012/12/disney-lucas-film-aquisition-complete/)

It's official. The value of the transaction was $4.06 billion total to George Lucas.

Current Star Trek director was offered Star Wars VII early on but declined (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=71747#mJsqKuk6L3I7gkIv.99)

J.J. Abrams turned down the opportunity to direct the new Star Wars film due to his commitment to Star Trek.

Lucasfilm President Kathleen Kennedy seemed to imply she'll have more information to share in the new year (http://www.ifc.com/fix/2012/12/star-wars-episode-vii-director-announcement)

Kayle Skolaris
2 January 2013, 12:01 AM
Personally, my dislike for the prequels comes more from the bad acting, dialogue, and overuse of SFX to the detriment of the story. If I could hop into my handy- dandy TARDIS and play at being Timelord Triumphant for a bit, I'd put the prequels in the hands of Guillermo Del Toro or maybe even Peter Jackson. They're both far better at making the SFX serve the story rather than the other way around.

Grimace
2 January 2013, 05:37 AM
I, for one, am very happy that JJ Abrams declined to work on the new Star Wars films. He would NOT steer the new movies in a direction I would want to see.

Kayle Skolaris
2 January 2013, 05:59 AM
i, for one, am very happy that jj abrams declined to work on the new star wars films. He would not steer the new movies in a direction i would want to see.

Lens flares!!! Lens flares everywhere!!!

Oh and Grimmy, shouldn't this thread be moved back out of Rumors now that it has been confirmed?

Grimace
2 January 2013, 12:41 PM
Nah, I think we're still into speculating what the new movies are going to be about.

Whill
3 January 2013, 06:54 PM
I, for one, am very happy that JJ Abrams declined to work on the new Star Wars films.

I'm not disappointed, although it may be for different reasons. Abrams starwarsified Star Trek. What's he going to do with real Star Wars? Make it even more like Star Wars? No. And as much as I liked Star Trek (09), all the camera shaking in Star Wars would probably get on my nerves.

Kayle Skolaris
3 January 2013, 11:10 PM
I'm not disappointed, although it may be for different reasons. Abrams starwarsified Star Trek. What's he going to do with real Star Wars? Make it even more like Star Wars? No. And as much as I liked Star Trek (09), all the camera shaking in Star Wars would probably get on my nerves.

And the lens flares! Never forget the lens flares! Lens flares on lightsabres, lens flares on Death Star blasts, lens flares on Chewbacca's canine teeth when he roars in defiance as moons with lens flares are dropped on him... With lens flares!

Whill
26 January 2013, 03:09 PM
So the story about Abrams declining Star Wars early on going public must have been a ploy to get more money... that worked.

Star Wars Is Being Kick-Started with Dynamite J.J. Abrams to Direct Star Wars: Episode VII (http://starwars.com/news/star-wars-is-being-kick-started-with-dynamite-jj-abrams-to-direct-star-wars-episode-vii.html?utm_source=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.starwars.com%2Fdata%2Fheadlines.xml&utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=starwars-site_rss)

I'm not dissappointed it is Abrams either. He's a big fan of the classic trilogy. They could do so much worse. Maybe it's better to ensure a Starwarsified new Star Wars trilogy (as opposed to a possibly de-Starwarsified new Star Wars trilogy by someone else). I'm choosing to look at this as a good sign, and I remain cautously optimistic about the next film trilogy.

Grimace
26 January 2013, 05:32 PM
Yeah, the "meh" is increasing in me with this news. Not quite the direction I was hoping for when it came to putting a good look to new Star Wars movies. Still, I'll wait until I see his first work in Star Wars before definitively saying whether it's a hit or miss for me.

Grade
27 January 2013, 09:14 AM
Its exactly the same.

Sarge
27 January 2013, 02:31 PM
JJ Abrams? Well, I bet the movie will be big and bright and loud and fast. But will there be any substance behind the flash? I hope so, but I'm not ready to bet on it.

Rostek
27 January 2013, 09:56 PM
Not disappointed, not notably thrilled either.

I'm going to just continue keeping an open mind moving forward, and appreciating that I will almost certainly get some entertainment value out of a new movie.

The positive is that Abrams is a fan of the original trilogy, so one hopes that he will approach the material with the respect of a fan. Given his success lately, it says to me that Disney wanted a safe choice-- if that is the attitude they are bringing to the picture I think that is the result they will get. I will take broadly enjoyable, if unambitious, over an overwrought first attempt that torpedoes the franchise reboot.

Sarge
28 January 2013, 08:53 AM
an overwrought first attempt that torpedoes the franchise reboot.

That pretty much sums up my reaction to JJ Trek. IMO, he was the wrong choice for Trek, but his style could be a better fit for SW. Time will tell.

Grimace
28 January 2013, 04:17 PM
It's nice to see someone else that didn't care for Abrams' "change" to Trek, Sarge. I'm not a big fan of the new trek either. I hope he does a better job with Star Wars.

Seghast
28 January 2013, 07:12 PM
It's nice to see someone else that didn't care for Abrams' "change" to Trek, Sarge. I'm not a big fan of the new trek either. I hope he does a better job with Star Wars.I'm with both of you; it was watchable, and that's about all I can say for it.

Honestly, I haven't cared for anything he's done so far; his movies, his television shows, nothing. The bit of optimism I had for Episode VII began to fade when Abrams was confirmed, though one of my friends is a huge fan of Abrams and his Tret movie (best Trek ever after Wrath of Khan, according to him), and he is positively ecstatic over this news. All I can do is groan and hope he can at least do marginally better than the prequel trilogy.

Whill
28 January 2013, 08:00 PM
All I can do is groan and hope he can at least do marginally better than the prequel trilogy.

Hey, if Star Wars VII is better than Attack of the Clones (my least favorite of the saga), I'll do cartwheels!

Armadious
29 January 2013, 08:26 AM
Yeah New Trek is about as watchable as EP2 for me as well but for similar reasons.

Trek has some brilliant flashy scenes to it but at the same time there is so much dumb... I mean if I wanted 90210 space dumb I would watch Starship Troopers (or one of its sequels). Now it would be easy to blame most of the dumb on the writers, but imo Abrams deserves some of the credit since he is the one who actually transferred it to the screen instead of going back for a re-write.

I only hope that the treatment by Lucas goes into a script by Arndt which is better researched and makes more sense then Trek; because from what I have seen Abrams doesn't fix.... he just adds to the dumb.

wolverine
29 January 2013, 01:21 PM
What areas of the new trek did you think were dumb?

Armadious
29 January 2013, 03:41 PM
The biggest thing I think for me was how emotionally unstable many of the characters are... it seems they are more modeled off of teens then actual mature individuals, like prequel Anakin or most of the characters in the new BSG (the main reason I don't care so much for that show). Too much posturing and angst for my taste.

Also consistency makes or breaks a fictional creation. For Trek I can appreciate the alternate universe part of it so that the characters are different, however I do have a hard time with science being off. Every time I encounter an inconsistency (that I notice) I get thrown out of the setting. This happens in Star Wars as well... as anyone who has watched the Clone Wars cartoons knows.

I don't really care for the goofy bits that don't add anything other then time spent watching in anything including Trek or TPM or whatever.

If actual specific scenes are desired I would have to watch it again. I haven't seen it in a year; I've found its one of the films that my appreciation decreases with each viewing.

Grimace
29 January 2013, 04:15 PM
The biggest thing I think for me was how emotionally unstable many of the characters are... it seems they are more modeled off of teens then actual mature individuals, like prequel Anakin or most of the characters in the new BSG (the main reason I don't care so much for that show). Too much posturing and angst for my taste.


You, sir, are putting into words what I've thought for a while but have been unable to express appropriately.

Sarge
29 January 2013, 05:46 PM
^ That.

Also, the plot made no sense. The Romulan villain from the future wanted to kill Kirk because Spock tried to save Romulus? If your home planet is wiped out in a cataclysm that throws you back in time, you don't go looking for revenge against a natural catastrophe, you go looking for a way to stop it from happening.

Even villains need to have plausible motivations. I have no respect for writers who make bad guys do things just because they're bad, or any character do anything just because the plot calls for it.

Whill
29 January 2013, 10:20 PM
^ That.

Also, the plot made no sense. The Romulan villain from the future wanted to kill Kirk because Spock tried to save Romulus? If your home planet is wiped out in a cataclysm that throws you back in time, you don't go looking for revenge against a natural catastrophe, you go looking for a way to stop it from happening.

Even villains need to have plausible motivations. I have no respect for writers who make bad guys do things just because they're bad, or any character do anything just because the plot calls for it.

The Romulan villain from the future was not out to kill Kirk. He only even cared about Kirk as much as Kirk got in his way. Nero primarily wanted two things: (1) To destroy Vulcan with Spock watching. (2) To destroy Earth, the Federation capital. To achieve that he needed defense codes from a high-ranking Starfleet officer, which is why he captured fleet Captain Pike.

It is a very natural response to tragedy for people to look for someone to blame for the loss of loved ones. Nero blamed Spock for not preventing the catastophe from killing his wife and child. Nero wanted revenge now, but he had 129 years to save his family and planet from the catastophe. He obviously wasn't a Unificationist. He psychopathically blamed the Federation for his people's woes - For Romulas even being in a weakened position to be destroyed by some natural catastrophe pending Federation aid that doesn't arrive in time.

Revenge is a common motivation for villains (and protagonists) in fiction. Everyone loves TWoK and the villain Khan (myself included), but isn't Khan also an extremely one-dimensional villain? Khan knew the Enterprise was not rightfully his, but he tried to take over the ship anyway. Typical bad guy stuff. But then Khan is actually enranged that Kirk exiled him for his actions? How could Khan blame Kirk for taking back what was his in the first place, and for Kirk exiling him for his crimes? How plausible is that? Khan had a superior intellect and years to think about it, but that's misdirected hostility. But wait, there was a personal tragedy. Khan's "wife" died after being exiled. What killed her? A natural disaster (and her not being an augment). Instead, Khan blamed Kirk for his wife's death. Sound familiar?

No one is saying that ST09 is completely original. I consider it a tribute. B) But then again I'm a wacky first-generation Star Wars fan who happened to enjoy most of prequel trilogy, so take all this for what you will.

Kayle Skolaris
29 January 2013, 11:05 PM
I think the single dumbest thing about Abramstrek was Kirk going from Cadet to Captain in less than a week. I flatly refuse to believe that Starfleet lost so many actual academy graduates to Nero's rampage that they had to start commissioning non-graduates directly into the center-seat.

Sarge
30 January 2013, 07:22 AM
Whill, I watched the movie twice and I didn't get any of that out of it. Maybe with better writing or directing it would have been clear, but I just didn't see it.

Khan had great writing, good direction, and fantastic over-the-top acting. He was so compelling that I didn't care if he was 1-dimensional. That single dimension was HUGE! Nero didn't have any of that.

Kayle, I couldn't agree more. Judging by past performance, there must be something bad in the water at Starfleet HQ to produce at least one incompetent/treasonous admiral a week, but even they wouldn't take a 3rd year cadet with discipline issues and promote him to Captain in one step. If I had trained, served, and worked my way up the ladder for years and seen this cocky brat with no experience promoted over my head, I'd resign my commission in protest. It's totally unbelievable that someone who doesn't have years of experience gets put in command of the Federation's best and newest ship.

wolverine
30 January 2013, 02:13 PM
I think the single dumbest thing about Abramstrek was Kirk going from Cadet to Captain in less than a week. I flatly refuse to believe that Starfleet lost so many actual academy graduates to Nero's rampage that they had to start commissioning non-graduates directly into the center-seat.

Well we did see what, 8 other ships in the fleet be destroyed. So maybe they were down a lot of people.

Kayle Skolaris
31 January 2013, 01:02 PM
Now I'll grant that this example is a century later and an alternate universe, but Wolf 359 saw the Federation lose thirty-nine ships and flatly state that they could cover the loss by the end of the year. That's not just ships but crew as well.

Whill
31 January 2013, 09:38 PM
I think the single dumbest thing about Abramstrek was Kirk going from Cadet to Captain in less than a week. I flatly refuse to believe that Starfleet lost so many actual academy graduates to Nero's rampage that they had to start commissioning non-graduates directly into the center-seat.

It was strongly suggested by the film that Kirk was on the verge of graduating the academy to become a commissioned officer.

The Federation had just suffered the lost of the planet Vulcan, and would have lost Earth if it hadn't been for Kirk violating the Starfleet stuff shirt chain of command. This is nothing new. In the prime universe, Kirk also got Starfleet charges dropped and command of a new Enterprise for saving the planet Earth. Kirk is a galactic hero!

Starfleet is loaded with inept officers in the prime universe. Captains Terrell, Styles, Esteban, Harriman, anyone? All losers who have no business being captain of a starship. It's a dramatic device used over and over again in the old franchise to make the hero seem even greater by comparison. So is it really a stretch to think that the alternate reality's Starfleet is likewise chock full with ineffectual starship captains? Kirk demonstrated the type of character needed as a starship captain. Was he fully qualified to command the Enterprise yet? No. Do they need him in command anyway? Yes. It's for Federation PR, enemy intimidation, inspiration of Starfleet cadets and other young officers, and setting an example for all the loser captains that Starfleet undoubtedly has. Kirk is a galactic hero!

Sarge
1 February 2013, 07:53 AM
I get that, Whill, and I know Kirk is a heroic fictional character, but that kind of instant promotion is just too much for my willing suspension of belief. Something I liked about classic Trek is the realistic (or at least believable) organization and hierarchy of Starfleet; I can believe that a real-world starfleet would operate the way classic Trek showed it to us. Maybe it's because of my 20 years in uniform, but I can't accept that any cadet, no matter how much potential he shows and no matter how heroically he performs in one incident, would get bounced straight to the top. To me, that's just not realistic.

Kayle Skolaris
1 February 2013, 11:49 AM
Harriman was clearly at the start of his career, with Kirk, Scotty, and Chekov commenting on how young everyone seemed. The worst thing Harriman tried to do is give Kirk command and get himself lost in the Nexus for seventy-five years.

Esteban was in command of an interstellar Pinto that could *accidentally* be one-spotted by a 23rd century Bird of Prey, he had every right and reason to be overly cautious and concerned. A stiff stellar breeze could likely stave in the Grissom's hull.

Styles...okay, yeah, Styles bad-mouthed his chief engineer's former ship in front of said chief engineer, that's hard core incompetence right there.

But Terrell? TERRELL??? The man who KILLED HIMSELF rather than kill Kirk? If that's incompetence, I don't want to be competent. I'm willing to let the Ceti Alpha V/Ceti Alpha Vi stuff slide because this is Star Trek and that sort of zaniness is quite honestly episode-of-the-week stuff. It's nothing special in the grand scheme of things. It's how Terrell died that elevates the man. Also, being played by Paul Winfield always helps.

Now if you want some multi-season examples of incompetence, there's always Janeway and Archer...

Fingon
2 February 2013, 09:23 AM
Amen to Terrell. He's a hero. From what I understand, his vessel was a science ship, not a warship, and he was clearly no warrior. But he fought and took his own life in place of another.

Archer. . . yeah. I've not nothing. Janeway had good moments, but they usually revolved around out-bluffing people. A lot like Kirk in that respect.

I quite enjoyed AbramsTrek, but I have to agree that the instant promotion was a bit much, as well as the "oh look, it's the entire crew which suddenly came together on accident." I did get Nero's sociopathic revenge, though I thought it could have been done better.

In my opinion, the biggest problem with the film was that Abrams missed the central idea of Star Trek. I like most of his work and think he is a good director, but he worked with a medium he didn't really understand, and the film suffered because of it.

Ardent
2 February 2013, 10:00 AM
Archer and the rest of the Enterprise crew were supposed to be a little bit naive and incompetent. By the time the show got cancelled they were managing to avoid mistakes more often than they made them. That literally never happened for Janeway and Voyager.

Orci and Abrams are Star Wars fans. The diehard variety. When he got offered Trek and asked to make it a more "exciting" brand, the answer was obvious: it needed to be more like Star Wars.

Star Trek fans of course hated him for mainstreaming "their" thing.

Kayle Skolaris
2 February 2013, 12:53 PM
Amen to Terrell. He's a hero. From what I understand, his vessel was a science ship, not a warship, and he was clearly no warrior. But he fought and took his own life in place of another

All the more impressive when you recall that Terrell had never even met Kirk before.

Fingon
3 February 2013, 01:16 PM
Star Trek fans of course hated him for mainstreaming "their" thing.

I wouldn't say that. Trek was just about as mainstream as you could be in the 90's--The Next Generation was the #2 show in the US when it ended. And while Abrams did make the film a lot more like Star Wars, I don't think that would have been a problem if he'd had a little better understanding of the underling mentality behind Trek, specifically Roddenberry's Trek.