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View Full Version : Luke had DSP in WEG, but not WotC?



Finster
9 January 2002, 09:32 PM
I noticed that some of the older editions of the SWRPG gave Luke some DSP (as many as 5 after ROTJ). I can think of 5 instances where Luke might get a DSP. The Gammoreans at Jabba's Palace, attempting to strike the Emperor down and again when he chopped off Vader's hand. I'd also say he might have picked one up in these situations: First battle with Vader on Cloud City, entering the dark side cave on dagobah, vengefully attacking the stormtroopers and Vader after Obi-Wan's death. Now, in the d20 edition, none of the good guys have DSP... WTF??

darth maim
10 January 2002, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by Finster
I noticed that some of the older editions of the SWRPG gave Luke some DSP (as many as 5 after ROTJ). I can think of 5 instances where Luke might get a DSP. The Gammoreans at Jabba's Palace, attempting to strike the Emperor down and again when he chopped off Vader's hand. I'd also say he might have picked one up in these situations: First battle with Vader on Cloud City, entering the dark side cave on dagobah, vengefully attacking the stormtroopers and Vader after Obi-Wan's death. Now, in the d20 edition, none of the good guys have DSP... WTF??

Actually even as of the NJO era Luke has 1 DSP. Also you don't get a DSP for every fight you get into. You listed his first battle with Vader on Cloud city but I can't think of any reason for him to get a DSP for this. I'm also torn about the cutting off Vader's hand deserving one bit... I'm going to rewatch and decide what my feelings are. After all they were engaged in battle at that point.

Sithspawn
10 January 2002, 02:04 AM
Where does Luke get his DSPs?
I'd say one for his failure in the cave on Dagobah. He failed his training because of the darkness in him.

One for his final duel with Darth Vader on the Death Star, when Vader mentions turning Leia. He is enraged at that point. After taking down Vader he fortunately manages to calm his mind.

One or more during Dark Empire. I re-read that series earlier this week ans IMHO he does not fall to the Dark Side fully.

Wade Trenor
10 January 2002, 03:35 AM
I've just bought the Rebellion Era Sourcebook, and it has Luke having 1 DSP after ESB, and 2 after RotJ. I'msure he had more during the Dark Empire saga, but he would have spent a lot of time afterward meditating and returning to the Light side.

Random Axe
10 January 2002, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by Sithspawn
Where does Luke get his DSPs?
I would agree that Luke would have gotten a DSP in the Dagobah cave, but not on Cloud City, there wasn't any instance where he "lost it" or gave in to hate or fear.

In ROTJ, he was racking them up like crazy. At least 2 DSPs for the 2 Gamorrean guards he choked out, then another for when he lost it on the Death Star in front of Vader.

Sithspawn
10 January 2002, 10:22 AM
the 2 Gamorrean guards he choked out
I'm sure I read somewhere that Luke didn't actually choke the Gammoreans but used Affect Mind to make them 'think' they were being choked, and they reacted accordingly, but no DSP. It does look to me like he's choking them though.

FlipDog 2000
10 January 2002, 01:01 PM
The two Gammorrian Guards were not killed, Luke held it just long enough to incapacitate them. However, whenever you use that ability, it's a DSP. And then the 3 to 4 on the DS.

Durian Keldrona
10 January 2002, 01:07 PM
He attacked first in Cloud city that would be why he would get a DSP.

Another place would be on the Death star when he flew off the handle and beat vader down.

VixenofVenus
10 January 2002, 01:34 PM
I think Luke would have 3-5 DSP at the end of RotJ, here is why:

He may have had any number before heading to Obi-wan's home on Tatooine prior to RotJ, but while there, he probably attoned for those DSPs while constructing his new (green) lightsaber.

Then in the duration of the movie he would gain 3-5 more, depending on how harsh or liberal you were with giving away DSPs.

Rigil Kent
10 January 2002, 01:39 PM
Whoa! Vixen's back! Haven't seen you around here lately!

As to me, harsh is the word. DSPs in RoJ
#1: Force Grip on Gamorean #1
#2: Force Grip on Gameorean #2
#3: Attacks Palpatine in anger, momentarily drawing upon the Dark Side
#4: Attacks "Dad" in pure rage and kicks his butt.

I am surprised that they have him with DSPs still in the time of the NJO. I guess he had a crapload after the Dark Empire abomination. Hmmm, do you get DSPs for acting stupid in a KJA book? (Yes, I realize Anderson didn't write DE).

dragonseye
10 January 2002, 01:54 PM
Finster,

I believe it depends on the time periods in which the stats you look at for the hero's take place. For instance, Luke certainly would have DSP's after the Jabba's Palace insidents in ROTJ, not to mention the DSP's he would have to have had during the Dark Empire comic, but Luke most likely would not have any when he first started out during a New Hope. (I also believe that in the Errata from WOTC Luke has DSP's- they did the same thing with Emperor Palpatine as well... and as Wade said, Luke does have DSP's in the rebeliion era source book)

In the Dark Side Source Book, both Mara Jade and Kyp Durron have DSP's. The stats found for Mara in the Core Rule book would have reflected the fact that she performed several heroic acts by the time of the New Jedi Order series, and hence, she would not have as many DSP's. Kyp on the other hand, we won't know how many DSP's he has during the NJO time period until the NJO book is out.

Sithspawn,

Interesting point. At the least I would think Luke would be tainted (not fully enthralled with the Dark Side, but maybe he had just enough to be near that path.)

(Out of curiosity, does anyone think Obi Wan earned a DSP during his battle with Darth Maul? It looked to me, from the expression on Obi's face, that he struck at least once out of anger. But according to the SW Gamer, he only called on the Light Side of the Force during that batle.)

Durian Keldrona
10 January 2002, 02:08 PM
In a new hope do you get a DSP for being whiny?

#1 The cave on Dagobah
#2 Attacking First in Cloud city

Time to atone during Shadows of the empire and building new Light Sabre.

As to me, harsh is the word. DSPs in RoJ
#1: Force Grip on Gamorean #1
#2: Force Grip on Gameorean #2
#3: Attacks Palpatine in anger, momentarily drawing upon the Dark Side
#4: Attacks "Dad" in pure rage and kicks his butt.

Dont remember if there is time to atone in this time before Dark empire.

More during Dark Empire probably tainted in Dark empire.

Finster
10 January 2002, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by dragonseye
(Out of curiosity, does anyone think Obi Wan earned a DSP during his battle with Darth Maul? It looked to me, from the expression on Obi's face, that he struck at least once out of anger. But according to the SW Gamer, he only called on the Light Side of the Force during that batle.)

I recall reading something on starwars.com about Darth maul using Obi-Wan's anger at Qui-Gon's death to channel the dark side through Obi-Wan and then using a force push to throw him down the shaft.

After doing some checking I found this on the star wars website:

As an undeniable example of his skill and devotion, Maul plunged headlong into battle against two Jedi warriors. Using his double-bladed lightsaber, Maul held off both Obi-Wan Kenobi and Qui-Gon Jinn in the heart of the Theed Royal Palace. When the Jedi became separated, Maul killed Qui-Gon with a well-placed saber strike. Kenobi, enraged, attacked Maul. This barrage was deflected by Maul who used Obi-Wan's touching of the dark side as a conduit for a Force attack; using the Force, Maul pushed Obi-Wan into a deep mining pit. Kenobi held onto an outcropping for dear life. Calming himself by calling upon the light side of the Force, Kenobi was able to surprise Maul, and cleave him in half with his saber.

The Admiral
10 January 2002, 06:02 PM
Not going to bother running a tally on Luke's DSPS, just going to mention a possibilty for DSPs in ESB,,,

There are two occasions when Luke gives in to fear, the cave, and on the vane on Bespin.

Fear is as much a part of the Dark Side as Anger is.

As to making the first strike in the carbon freezing chamber, this would, IMHO, merely demonstrate that he's a poor sword fighter. As a general rule of thumb, barring a few other factors (like your opponant being asleep, or fighting someone armed with a spoon versus your great sword) striking first usually mean's you've lost the match. More true of Japanese combat I suppose. There are stories of great swordsmen fighting a duel without ever drawing their swords. (Picture two samourai circling each other, hands on Katana, but still scabborded) Essentially, they size each other up until they both realise who's the better.

Finster
10 January 2002, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by The Admiral
Not going to bother running a tally on Luke's DSPS, just going to mention a possibilty for DSPs in ESB,,,

There are two occasions when Luke gives in to fear, the cave, and on the vane on Bespin.

Fear is as much a part of the Dark Side as Anger is.

As to making the first strike in the carbon freezing chamber, this would, IMHO, merely demonstrate that he's a poor sword fighter. As a general rule of thumb, barring a few other factors (like your opponant being asleep, or fighting someone armed with a spoon versus your great sword) striking first usually mean's you've lost the match. More true of Japanese combat I suppose. There are stories of great swordsmen fighting a duel without ever drawing their swords. (Picture two samourai circling each other, hands on Katana, but still scabborded) Essentially, they size each other up until they both realise who's the better.

I agree with this. Although, I think the entire battle was Luke giving in to fear. He feared for his friends, and that's why he left Yoda. But, you are right on money, I think, about striking first.