View Full Version : Jedi Nerve Pinch?!?!?!?!

11 January 2002, 10:05 AM
In EP1 Qui-Gon used somesort of pinch technique on JarJar in the submarine. At which Kenobi responded "you over did it." what did he do and how do I reproduse that in our games?

Durian Keldrona
11 January 2002, 10:34 AM
Im thinking he used was affect mind to calm him.

Donovan Morningfire
11 January 2002, 10:51 AM
Qui-Gon place his hand on Jar-Jar's shoulder, using Affect Mind to try and calm Jar-Jar down. Most likely Jar-Jar rolled a natural 1 or failed his Will Save by more than 10, and thus went unconscious. (It's happened several times to Donovan; I try to do a similar thing, and the person in question conks out. Replies range from the "you overdid it" from his padawan to "neat track; can you teach me that?" from Darr.) If a Force-user wanted to intentionally put some one to sleep, I'd say Affect Mind with a +5 to +10 to the DC. Just be cautious about overusage.

Granted, when I first saw the topic, I was immediately reminded of the scene in Spaceballs were Lone Star tries the Vulcan neck pinch on that one guard (who then tells LS how to do it correctly).

11 January 2002, 11:31 AM
I've never really thought about that scene.

I guess that he could have been using Affect Mind to try to calm him, but I think that if you were to specifically try to incapacitate someone, it would begin to be flirting with a dark-side usage of that skill.

Donovan Morningfire
11 January 2002, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by VixenofVenus
I've never really thought about that scene.

I guess that he could have been using Affect Mind to try to calm him, but I think that if you were to specifically try to incapacitate someone, it would begin to be flirting with a dark-side usage of that skill.
It would depend on intention. If the Force Sleeper-Hold (tm pending) is used with the intent to prevent someone from being needlessly harmed and then get them out of harm's way, then I'd be a bit lenient. If it's a step to provoke a Coup de Grace attempt by making the guy helpless, then the DSP express is most certianly pulling into station.

Affect Mind has always been in that fuzzy grey area in both systems. As the power is written, it can be used for both good and for evil. In the final analysis, the only determiner is how the each GM views its usage.

Durian Keldrona
11 January 2002, 12:12 PM
Affect mind is rather like a blaster... if you use it to defend and prevent harm its a tool of good. If its used to murder someone its a tool of evil.

Consul Vido
11 January 2002, 12:52 PM
I had always thought that this was what Luke did to the Gamorrean guards in Jabba's palace. Some people have said he killed them using Force Grip or Injure/kill or whatever, but I always thought that didn't sound like something a Jedi would do. But, using Affect Mind to do the equivalent of "You are getting sleepy, very sleepy." would seem to be a much better, in my opinion, explanation of what he did.

Durian Keldrona
11 January 2002, 01:04 PM
except for the struggling and grabbing at the throat that the Gamorreans did. but then maybe he made them think they were being choked. hard to say... Does anyone have a RotJ Novel handy to see what it is described as in there?

Consul Vido
11 January 2002, 01:17 PM
Hmm. I didn't remember any struggling and choking. I thought the grunting was just the regular noises they made. Well, I guess I'll just have to watch that scene again. Oh well.

11 January 2002, 06:20 PM
I presumed that Qui-Gon used Affect Mind. Most of my group think that Qui-Gon over-stepped what was acceptable for force actions in TPM. ie. trying to get Watto to take credits he couldn't use, possible altering Watto's dice.

But I digress. When I saw the title of this thread I immediately thought that it was about the Vulcan Nerve Pinch. I have some home-brew aliens in my game, Vaxumi, who are basically Vulcans. All Vaxumi get Ctl, Sen & Alt but may only attempt foce actions where Proximitry is touching, and they cannot use Telekenesis. They do get the Nerve Pinch though. They have to roll Brawl to hit, then roll their Control vs. opponents Perc. or Control. The damage is treated as Stun.

On a similar line I had to ban on use of the force, induce sleep using affect mind. It made the game too easy for even minor Jedi.

As for the choking Gammorean theory, which was raised on another thread, I too always though Luke used Affect Mind to make the guards think they were being choked. So I checked the novel, and it doesn't really help the discussion. It gives the impression, as does the movie, that Luke chokes the guards with the force. The Gammoreans cluch their throats choking, falling to the floor. Luke walks by and they get up. But it doesn't explicitly state T/K kill, but you have to remember that the novel was written many years before the force powers were more well defined for the sake of the RPG.
Maybe GL by adding the choking scene was showing the connection between Vader & Luke.

12 January 2002, 12:13 PM
If I Affect Mind on a body and they fail by 10+ then they can be unconscience!? So is it more of a stun 'cause JJ was back in no time.

I always had thought Luke was choking the guards. A foreshadowing, like the outfit he wears in RotJ; which (to me) is remarkably close to a Sith outfit. And he didn't say anything, any other time Affect Mind is used it seems accompanied by voice.

Doesn't straight command over someone, instead of influence seem more like Control Mind (DSSB)? Its just in Ep4 Kenobi influences the stormtrooper into believing those were not the droids, but sleep or run seems more like direct control over someone.

On a side note, I was (honestly) hoping it was a nerve pinch!!!!!!!!!

12 January 2002, 01:43 PM
I would agree that the power Qui-Gon uses is affect mind, with the intent to calm the target. With regard to DS points, I wouldn't be too worried with this usage. In the movies, we see respectable Jedi (Qui-Gon, the older Obi-Wan) using affect mind rather liberally. So long as the intent isn't to hurt the target, I wouldn't issue a dark side point.

As far as the RotJ novelization is concerned, Luke was choking the Gamorreans, but released them before they could come to injury. I don't think this even warrants a DS point (although I'm probably going to get yelled at for this :D ). Luke seems to use it casually, just as he uses affect mind to get past Fortuna. Compared with fighting with the guards, it seems the lesser of two evils. That's not to say that he isn't treading a fine line, however...