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Nova Spice
11 January 2002, 05:26 PM
Alright....for RPG and non-RPG purposes, I was wondering if anyone was familiar with specific tactics employed by the Imperial Army and Imperial Navy?

When the Imperial Army marches into battle, do they form up into a giant sea of troops and machines like the Trade Federation Droid Army did in Episode I? Or do they employ more guerrilla style warfare similar to Rebel Alliance army units?

Basically, and Deck or Moridin if you want to move this to General RPG Discussion, it is fine; I wanted to know this for an upcoming adventure in my campaign. I have pitted the Imperial Army vs. a dormant(now resurrected) army of the Trade Federation under the control of the famed Prexiar Pirates(Moridin, I am sure you find that name familiar :) ) and I was wanting to know what type of combat tactics does the Empire use.

Now, I know many of you fought or served in the military and have some expertise in this field. I love history and know a fair amount of combat strategy, but not nearly as much as some of you.

Can ya help a curious man out?

P.S. Any of you ex-Navy guys can help me with deep space tactics too!

Donovan Morningfire
11 January 2002, 05:49 PM
I can't speak from any kind of actual military experience, but the general impression is that the Empire favors massive numbers, attacking en masse, much like the battles of the two World Wars. The Rebellion uses guerilla tactics (much like we did in the Revolutionary War and the Viet Cong did to us) becuase the focus is more on quality of troops than quantity.

The typical Imperial strategist buys into the whole "greater numbers are better" theory, much like the European countries did in wars of the past. The 'typical' Alliance strategist uses whatever's available, and is often taught that unconvential tactics get the best results. There was a comedian a while back who commented on the British marching in large groups in bright red uniforms with drums and such, while the Colonists were hiding in the bushes and trees, scattered about as much as possible.

Grimace
11 January 2002, 10:13 PM
Ah, one of my favorite subjects. :)

This is always how I personally viewed the tactics/operating military doctrine of the Imperial War Machine<sup>TM</sup>. In most cases, the Imperial Navy would move in and secure the surrounding space. With a fair amount (if not massive amount) of orbital bombardment/fighter strikes to reduce the amount of obvious military targets, ground troops would be inserted to squelch remaining opposition. Tactics would largely include massed troops, supported by heavy armor and possibly by close support bombing (TIE bombers, etc), but may even involve some use of specialist units where the opposition may be proving difficult. Mountain passes, underwater, frozen tundra, whatever...may require something other than the standard Imperial Army trooper. Sharpshooter units may be dispatched as roving harrasment/opportunity attacks against well prepared defenders. Units like Stormtroopers may be required (in massed numbers and superior firepower, of course) in areas where the standard army isn't suited for operations (underwater, radioactive plains, Hoth).

If a large contingent of Imperial Army is insufficient in taking a planet, or if said planet has exceptional defenses capable of resisting bombardment, the Navy will establish a fim blockade and begin using alternative methods of assault. Gravshock generators to damage and hopefully disable shields/military bases. Those fancy (can't remember the exact names) gadgets that either blot out the sunlight or enhance said sunlight to burn things below. Constant darkness/cold temperatures, or searing hot temps, can do bad things to morale of a defender. If such tactics, coupled with constant probes by TIE flights to test defenses, still fail to knock down the defenses of a planet, that's when the BIG boys are brought in: Torpedo Spheres!

So, as a whole, I'd view the Imperial Army as a sort of "numbers and power" sort of unit. They rely heavily on good intelligence, support from orbital bombardment/ground bombardment/fighter bombing, and sheer numbers to overwhelm the enemy. Don't feel afraid to have some "specialist" type of units, in the Army. These units can be infiltration and assassination type of units, or recon units, or saboteur units. I'm sure the Empire is smart enough to know that not every situation can be solved by moving in 5,000 Infantry. Sometimes subterfuge works better. When the Army fails, or is unable to work it's magic, the Navy takes over with siege tactics. Just think of these sieges as something the Empire wants to get over with QUICKLY! I don't look at those weapons that a Star Destroyer carries as being something that will take an enormously long time to take effect. Earthquakes, constant darkness with freezing temps, or incredibly searing hot temps that cause items to combust all seem to suggest that the Empire likes to handle these problems fairly quickly. If all else fails, they keep the Torpedo Spheres around (granted, there aren't a lot of them, so the enemy really has to be "asking for it") to knock down planetary shields quickly so that the troops can flood the planet and the Star Destroyers can pummell the populace *ahem*...I mean the military bases. ;)

If you want more ideas, I can get more specific via email, but it takes a lot of time to type it all out.

Hope this helps.

Emperor Xanderich II
12 January 2002, 07:30 AM
I agree that the Imps would generally go for the 'overwhelm with lots of men and guns and we don't really care if some of our boys get blaster' approach.

The special carriers could carry ten of thouasands of Imperial troopers and their equipment, implying that they used them in such a fashion.

In general, I imagine the actual take-over would be fairly swift, if the Imps had any sense then they would use Lighning Warfare to qucikly remove the ememies ability to fight effectively on a large scale. The majority of the troops would then have to be deployed fighting partisans guerllas etc. For example Tito's partisans in Yugoslavia tied down some 20 Axis didviosn during the second world war.


As for the actual battles themselves, if forced into a pitched battle where they didn't have vast air and space superiority then the Imps wouldd probably do something like this.

Large amounts of artillary fire would be followed by armoured thrusts on the flanks with the bulk of the infantry follwing up to create a pocket when the 'pincers' of the tank attack met behind the enemy army. The enemy troops would then, invariably, try to break out and if they failed be forced to surrender by constant artillary fire and swifyt armour attacks, constantly battering them.


The greater numbers are better have been employed by armies throughout the world for all history and still is in many places

The old Redcoats were so as it was very difficult to coordinate armies in 'olden days' so you wanted to know which troops were on your side in the fog of war. The guerillas in the 'Revolutionary War' were relitively ineffective, most nearly starved. It was in the end decided by sieges, as was the want at that period.

The Admiral
12 January 2002, 07:49 AM
Specifically versus a TF army, along the lines of what we see in TPM, I'd say that if orbital bombardment isn't available (If it is, then they'd just flatten them that way) If not, then they'd try to exploit the known weakness of the TF armies;

1: Concentrated groups of infantry, so area effect weapons.
2: Front heavy armour units, so they'd try to manouvere as many units to the enemies raer as possible.

AT-STs would be an ideal vehicle to use; their grenade launchers provide an ideal AEW for troop concentrations, the toes snips would be entertaining versus battle droids, plus they're fast and manouverable enough to stand a chance of getting behind the enemy tanks,,,

You'd want some heavy weapons in place to distract the tanks whilst the AT-STs made their flanking moves, though, can't see the AT-STs fairing well against AAT shell launchers,,,

Nova Spice
12 January 2002, 08:22 AM
Unfortunately for the Empire, the resurrected TF army is a large surprise to them. They were marching for the base of the Prexiar Pirates when suddenly an extremely large force of enemy troops marched out of the pirates mountain fortress to the valley below to meet the Imps.
Basically I figured since Bimmisaari is home to a group of aliens that love to barter(Bimms) and trade, I figured that the TF would have loved the planet when they were still in power. So I assumed the TF would place a hidden army on Bimmisaari for backup purposes. The Prexiar Pirates found out about this little dormant army from an old Neimoidian retired from the TF's armed forces.

I want to figure out how to pitch the battle. As of now, here are the logistics and statistics of the opposing forces:

Empire:
-300 Imperial Stormtroopers/Army Troopers
-5 Imperial AT-ATs
-8 Imperial AT-STs
-2 Imperal Juggernauts
-15 scout troopers on Aratech speederbikes

Reinforcements:
-A task force of Imperial ships in orbit centered around an Imperial I-class Star Destroyer, the Pegasus' Wrath.

Trade Federation:
-1000 Trade Federation battle droids(Infantry)
-20 Trade Federation AATs
-10 Trade Federation MTTs
-30 Trade Federation STAPs
-20 Trade Federation droidekas(Destroyer droids)

Reinforcements:
-The Prexiar Pirates, who are currently evacuating the planet with the remainder of the TF army are using the one below to distract the Empire and make there get away. As of now, the Prexiar Pirates are in league with Black Sun, unbeknownst to the Empire though.

With this info, I have been trying to decipher how each force would use their men and armor. So far, I figure the walkers will take the front line with the stormtroopers and army troopers behind to cover the rear. The TF will have their AATs on the front along with the MTTs in the rear to dislodge even more troops. I also have the STAPs trying to take down the Imperial stormies. Any more ideas??


P.S. The strategies mentioned above by The Admiral and Emperor Xanderich as well as Donovan are exacty what I am referring to, so if anyone else cares to chime in, I would be most appeciative! ;)

The Admiral
12 January 2002, 09:45 AM
Right, below is a scale graphical representations of the forces you listed, slightly altered to better fit the standard deployment of troops,,,

-64 Imperial Stormtroopers (8 Squads of 8 troops)
-256 Imperial Army Troopers (32 Squads of 8 troops)
-320 Total Infantry
-5 Imperial AT-ATs
-8 Imperial AT-STs
-2 Imperal Juggernauts
-15 scout troopers on Aratech speederbikes

-1140 Trade Federation battle droids (Infantry) (10 full MTT loads)
-20 Trade Federation AATs
-10 Trade Federation MTTs
-30 Trade Federation STAPs
-20 Trade Federation droidekas(Destroyer droids)

On first impressions, the Imps will get splattered,,,

What kind of terrain etc are they fighting on?

VixenofVenus
12 January 2002, 10:36 AM
I think you also have to remember that lumping Imperial Army together with Stormtroopers is really not how the Imperials fought ground battles. The Imp. Army soldiers were comparable to the US Army and Stormies were like Navy SEALs or Marines . . . they were trained for get-in, get-out missions and short conquests . . . but they don't have the support personel to support their conquests for more than a week or so. So that is when the Imp. Army comes in to support them. If it is going to be a long conquest . . . that is when the Imp. Army is useful.

The Stormtroopers were few because of the resources it took to train and support them . . . but everyone from Palpy to Vader to Thrawn saw them as the quintisential representation of Imperialism at it's best . . . loyal soldiers that kick royal booty.

The Admiral
12 January 2002, 12:12 PM
Er, citing the only canon scene where army troops are used at all, army troops and stormtroopers rub shoulders quite happilly on Endor.

I'd agree in principle that Stormtroopers tend to be used alone, but by no means is that a defacto universal scenario. Imperial Garrisons deploy both Stormtroopers and Army troops.

ANY way, now that I've finally been able to shoulder barge my way back onto the HoloNet, I thought I'd post this little thang.

This is how I'd basically deploy the troops, barring terrain factors. The TF forces are in a standard battle line;

Paired MTT groups forming five main forces. AAT's forming the forntal skirmish line. Droideka in four squads between the main groups to provide adaptable assistance to infantry units, and the STAPs providing initial high speed scouting and skirmish duties. As far as I can tell, this is pretty much how the forces were deployed on Naboo, and it makes a lot of sense to me.

On the Imperial side, AT-ATs and Juggernauts in a loose heavy armour line, AT-STs in pairs in flanking deployments, biker scouts in three roving groups. Infantry deployed in a line before the armour, with the stormtrooper units at the core, with flanking infantry. Reserve infantry force of twenty squads behind the armour line.

Now, what I'd do, as the Imp commander, is have the AT-STs move forward and out, using a modest fire rate. Once in range, to start laying down fire on the troop formations with concussion grenades andblaster fire.

Scout troops to begin high speed high rate of fire harrassing attacks on STAPs and infantry, but also laying fire into the AAT line, attempting to draw their fire from the AT-STs.

Armour to advance, slowly, maintaining high rate of fire on the AATs.

Infantry to hunker down and fire long range (Imperial troops are more accurate at range than the battle droids.) Falling back by squads if needed to avoid a close range engagement with the droids.

As the AT-STs pass behind the AAT line, they should turn in and fire at the AAT's weaker aft sections, using a high rate of fire.


Essentially, the Imperial would attempt to destroy the AAt tanks as their first priority, without them, the enemy have no serious heavy weapon capability, and the armour units should be able to dispatch the remainder more or less at their leisure.
IF the AAT line is destroyed, Imperial Infantry should immediately fall back where possible, ideally being picked up by the AT-ATs as much as possible.

One final idea I did have was that since MTTs are far more massive than AT-ATs, it'd be worthwhile the Pirates using them as high speed rams, I'm nearly certain that an At-At couldn't manouver fast enough to avoid getting hit, and that getting hit would be catastrophic for the walker. Of course, such an action would be entirely atypical of the TF's battle tactics, and thus take the Imperials by complete surprise.



Nova, are you looking to convert this battle into a standard RPG battle, ie, looking for key points for a group of PCs to affect the battle? If so, I'd be happy to generate them. Also, if you want, it'd be easy to convert this 'ere map to your own terrain,,,

Oh, and Grim, I'd be interested in your take on the deployment etc,,,

Emperor Xanderich II
12 January 2002, 12:54 PM
The entire Imperial plan should (will have to ) revolve around the AT-AT's, given their great firepower, armour and speed. The AT-ST's should be used to leg it around the flanks of the enemy army and cause confusion from the rear.

The AT-AT's would have to move forward fast to destroy the AAT's, and would do well simply walking through the TF army, stamping on droids left, right and centre.

Like the Admiral said, the Imp infantry would have to hold back and use long range fire to best effect. The speeder bikes could acts as spotters and report back to the army command as to how the battle is going. If the Imperial army troopers have any mortars (I imagine they would) then they would be perfect for blasting droids apart, especially with the speeders allowing pin point fire.

Lokar
12 January 2002, 02:03 PM
Very intresting thoughts by everyone so far. Here is my take, not to take anything away from you, Nova Spice.

Deployment of the armored vehicles: The AT-ATs and the Juggernaughts with their heavy firpower, slow speed, and troop carrying capabilities would place them in the center of the group. The AT-ATs place like the five pips on a standard die and the pair of Juggernaughts to the left and the right. The AT-STs would be depolyed as flaking units to the formation. Two upfront to the left and right from the core formation and two on either side in the rear. The speeder bikes would be broken down into 3 five-man lances. One on the left/right and one upr front. Most likely this lance will be quickly destroyed in the opening moves of the pirate/TF force.

Deployment of the ground troops: Based on your post Nova, I assume the Empire believes that this will be a simple clearing operation so the Stromtroopers and Army Troopers would be in their carriers (I will elborate on this later in the post).

Progression of the battle: When the pirate/TF force stikes the leading scout lance will most likely be destroyed. Any surviving members of the leading lance would fall back while the flanking units move out of formation to begin a classic pincer eveloment manenvuer and to counter any pincer manenvuer being performed by the pirates. The troop carriers would then lay down some covering fire while the ground troops. It would be at this point that commanding officer would call in for air support in the form TIE/gt bombing and TIE/ln strafing runs, if they have a typical garrison on planet.

Notes on Imperial Forces: My personal opinion on the Imperial Army is that they are a mechanized army much like Cold War/current US Army. One of things I thought WEG did wromg in their otherwise very good Imperial Sourcebook was that it left the impression that the bulk Imperial ground forces were leg infantry by leaving out any meantion of IFVs or APCs (though they did touch on it birefly in the repulsorlift units). So in my senerio, there is a attitonal one to two dozen light repulsorlift/ground vehicle functioning as APCs with some light anti-personal weapons.

Nova Spice
12 January 2002, 07:50 PM
Wow, this is great! And so cool! I am just amazed by everyone's aptitude for military strategies! :D

Now, lemme see if I can help you out a bit.

On an RPG standpoint, yes, I am assuming that my PCs will enter the battle at somepoint. Bear in mind that the PCs are all teenagers and students on Bimmisaari and their lives are changing thanks to these actions. Also, the terrain is a wide valley of fairly high grass surrounded on the south, east, and west by deciduous forests and on the north by the mountain pass(Prexiar Pirates base).

Basically, I am trying to make the battle a very large ground engagement between two large forces. The PCs are neither Imperial nor affiliated with the Prexiar Pirates(TF army), so they will most likely have to fight both to make their way out of the carnage.

On a non-RPG standpoint, I am very interested in how the Empire would handle this type of situation and what tactics they would employ. The infomation given to me in the above posts are incredibly detailed and extremely helpful! I thank you very much and YES ADMIRAL, I am interested in knowing how to run this scenario with my PCs.

This needs to be a fast paced battle with heavy fire on both sides. Basically, the Empire will eventually quelch this little insurrection, but I am interested to know at what cost.

The Admiral
13 January 2002, 09:34 AM
The terrain is a wide valley of fairly high grass surrounded on the south, east, and west by deciduous forests and on the north by the mountain pass(Prexiar Pirates base).
So the TF forces will essentially line up just outside the mountain pass, yes? With the Imperial forces coming out of the southern forests. Any idea on how large this clearing is?


The PCs /- -/ will most likely have to fight both to make their way out of the carnage.
So, what on earth are they doing?! Picnic in the park?

The main trouble I could see with this as a RPG thing is that if these guys act in character, they're just going to run like HELL for the trees. Neither force would pay any attention to them, aside from a threat assesment,,,
As the forces are sizing up, there should be plenty of time for them to run out of the way of both, really.
Now, what you COULD do is have them down in some kind of depression, doing whatever they're doing, when they start to feel the ground shake. As they hop up to have a look around, one of them nearly get's their head taken off by a STAP. That way, they basically realise there's a battle going on because they're about to be run over by the droid forces. As they then try to get out, they run in various problems as they were stuck right where the main battle takes place.


Basically, the Empire will eventually quelch this little insurrection, but I am interested to know at what cost.
If you need it to be pre-determined that the Empire win this battle, no problemo, but it'd HAVE to be a very heavy cost,,,

The Admiral
13 January 2002, 11:30 AM
Fresh Deployment image, big one though,,,

Grimace
13 January 2002, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Nova Spice

Empire:
-300 Imperial Stormtroopers/Army Troopers
-5 Imperial AT-ATs
-8 Imperial AT-STs
-2 Imperal Juggernauts
-15 scout troopers on Aratech speederbikes

Reinforcements:
-A task force of Imperial ships in orbit centered around an Imperial I-class Star Destroyer, the Pegasus' Wrath.

Trade Federation:
-1000 Trade Federation battle droids(Infantry)
-20 Trade Federation AATs
-10 Trade Federation MTTs
-30 Trade Federation STAPs
-20 Trade Federation droidekas(Destroyer droids)

Reinforcements:
-The Prexiar Pirates, who are currently evacuating the planet with the remainder of the TF army are using the one below to distract the Empire and make there get away. As of now, the Prexiar Pirates are in league with Black Sun, unbeknownst to the Empire though.

With this info, I have been trying to decipher how each force would use their men and armor. So far, I figure the walkers will take the front line with the stormtroopers and army troopers behind to cover the rear. The TF will have their AATs on the front along with the MTTs in the rear to dislodge even more troops. I also have the STAPs trying to take down the Imperial stormies. Any more ideas??

Also, the terrain is a wide valley of fairly high grass surrounded on the south, east, and west by deciduous forests and on the north by the mountain pass(Prexiar Pirates base).



Okay, my thoughts on the tactics, though I won't have any of the fancy graphical references that The Admiral has (nice touch, BTW).

These tactics do depend, however, on the assumption that the Imperial troops KNOW that they are going to be attacked, rather than the TF army getting the jump on them. I'll be going on the fact that the Empire knows that they are going to get into a fight.

First off, the Empire, IMO would have it's scouts on the speeder bikes operating in 5 groups of 3. One would be far forward roving point. This is probably the unit that would have first seen the TF army and alerted the Imperial forces of it's disposition before being taken out.

Working on the fact that the Empire is outnumbered, but also considering that they've got (what the Empire would view) as superior weaponry, the Commander of the Imperials would probably deploy 2-3 AT-STs on a flanking maneuver into the trees. Since the little walkers are more than capable of quick movement, their flanking action would coincide with a frontal attack by the AT-AT. AT-AT take the front position, nearly 200 meters in advance of the the Juggernaughts (which would be used as fire support platforms). Seeing as how the Juggernaughts were not adopted by the Imperial Army for military use (see Imperial Sourcebook pg. 70) the Empire probably won't want them on the front, favoring their more reliable and less vulnerable AT-ATs.

Now I'm going to have to assume a couple of more things, as just with the layout of men you have arranged above, it doesn't explain whether you are using Line Platoons, Heavy Weapon Platoons, Artillery Platoons, Repulsorlift Platoons, Special Mission Platoons, Scout Platoons or Armor Platoons. There's a HUGE variety of tactics that could be implemented depending on what's present.

Since you want the Empire to win this one, I'm going to take a little bit of ad-lib here and through in one platoon of Special Missions, one overstrength Scout Platoon, and two Heavy Weapons Platoons (that would equate out to roughly an expanded Assault Company).

The Scout Platoon is already deployed in the form of the speeder bikes, though there would be two squads of infantry still unaccounted for. Chances are, they be operating in trees in advance of the Imperial main body. These men could be used as flanking hit and run attacks, coupled with the firepower of the speeder bikes. Two three bike groups would be operating on the left flank, two on the right flank. After the main body of the TF army passed the scouts position, they would begin an enfilade fire on the TF Army, most likely in an effort to damage/destroy the AATs or Droidekas.

Back in the main body, the AT-ATs and remaining AT-STs would lead the assault, using their heavy firepower, augmented by support fire from the Juggernaughts that are staying in reserve positon so as not to expose their observation towers (the weakest point on the vehicle). The sensor data/fire control from the Juggernaughts alone could assist not only the Juggernaught weapons, but data could be relayed to the AT-ATs to help them pick out targets of key importance.

Directly preceeding the Juggernaughts position, the two heavy weapons platoons will be moving up in bounds, giving optimum fire support against ground targets for the AT-ATs. The medium and heavy repeating blasters of the heavy weapons platoons would be perfect for knocking down those pesky STAPs, as well as contending with the dangerous Droidekas. The two standard line platoons of Imperial Army troopers would be kept in reserve position, near the Juggernaughts. Any droid units that broke through past the front line of AT-ATs and remaining AT-STs, and made it to the Heavy Weapon platoons/Juggernaughts, could be mopped up by the reserve line platoons.

The one Special Missions platoon would be sent on one flank, most likely the one containing the detatchment of AT-STs, to create a sizable combat force to close in behind the TF army and seal off any chance of escape. The two sharpshooter squads of this platoon would probably be deployed within the wooded area to take shots of opportunities at key targets. The Heavy weapons squad would support the Engineer squad and proceed to destroy/cripple the TF hover vehicles with some well placed explosives. Couple this with the fact that the flank attack would coincide with the AT-ST attack, as well as a hinderance attack by the Recon Platoon, and the enveloping maneuver would be complete!

The one group that would be the wild card for the Empire is the detatchment of Stormtroopers. As they are not officially under the command of Imperial Army, the army officer may want to keep them back, OR he might think that they are capable of "handling themselves" and deploy them forward, along with the AT-ATs and AT-STs. This added firepower in the front could be enough to severely hamper ANY droids from making it past the Imperial front line. Of course, if the Stormtrooper officer feels that some action would be better suited for his men, he may decide to make a battlefield decision to better position his men to ensure victory. Chances are, I see the stormtroopers as not showing any fear and taking the lead in the attack. Casualties in their ranks may be high, but then, with their armor, they stand the best chance of surviving the initial volley of blaster fire.

As for the TF Army tactics, I never envisioned the droids as very crafty, so this is what I'd do for them. The droid soldiers would deploy, moving in a huge wave (a la Phantom Menace) into battle. The STAPs would buzz around the field, possibly realizing the highly elevated towers of the Juggernaughts are a key point to attack. The MTTs would stay in the rear, as once they discard their troops, they won't be of much combat use other than harassing fire. The AATs would provide long range fire, hoping to knock out the AT-ATs, and failing that, would concentrate fire on the AT-STs (there will be 4 of them seen when the battle begins). The Droidekas would be kept for deployment AFTER the initial volley of fire. Once the droids realize that the AT-ATs are walking through their front lines, supported by stormtroopers, with heavy fire coming from support positions in the rear, they will move the Droidekas up to lay down a terrible barrage of fire. This will be a good match...two heavy weapons platoons plus the Juggernaughts firepower against the rapid fire of the Droidekas. 8o

Overall, I could see the droids doing a fairly good chop job on the stormtroopers and perhaps the walkers, though I have doubts about their ability to knock down all of the AT-ATs. However, with constant sharpshooter fire from the flanks, coupled with a fairly serious flank attack by 4 AT-STs, a Special Missions platoon and a Recon Platoon, will result in the droid army losing key officers/vehicles of importance and effectively losing the battle. Losses that I see are heavy on the Imperial front and middle lines. There should still be close to two full platoons of line infantry troopers to finish the job, though. The droid army, when all is said and done, will most certainly have absolutely NO vehicles left, and may only have one or two (if they are lucky) droidekas left. The losses of combat droids would probably be close to 85%.

With the deployment of the Imperials in the flank positions, it also makes it quite difficult for the PCs to simply get up and run out of the battle. They'll find themselves in the thick of it with no way to get out, and therefore would have to assist one side. The choice would be most interesting to see. :raised:

Hope this helps.

Nova Spice
13 January 2002, 04:37 PM
The PCs are actually in the base on the north. Thy are actually watching the TF army deploy into the valley from behind. They were betrayed by a friend and captured by the Prexiar Pirates. Basically they are stuck in the conflict with no means of transportation out except their feet.
I fully expect them to get the hell out of there, as I would. The problem is, any way they go, they must travel on foot and will most certainly encounter opposition.

The valley is a kilometer or a little more across and about 2.5 kilometers long. The Imps are coming from the south out of the Threnglen Wilderwoods. The forests extend all the way to the horizon as far as the eye can see. A few rivers and a small community of Farghuls are all that are within a 100 kilometer radius.

I am absolutely ecstatic with everyone's help and am going to combine everyone's thoughts and strategies together for a more wholistic approach. BTW, thanks Admiral for the maps. Emperor Xanderich, Grimace I thank you two for your very detailed descriptions. Hopefully this battle, thanks to you guys will prove to be a pivotal experience for my PCs for a long time to come! :D B) :) ;)

Grimace
13 January 2002, 05:12 PM
My version of the deployment (I used your picture, Admiral, hope you don't mind).

The Admiral
13 January 2002, 06:09 PM
No problem at all Grim, glad all the icons were clear enough ;-)

Lokar
13 January 2002, 06:33 PM
Intresting mix there Grimance, however based on what Nova gave us I think that Imperial ground troops are more like the garrison force sent to route out the pirate base. My impression is that the Imperials are sending a expanded Line Company (with a additional heavy weapons squad). Basically I do see the Empire winning this throught the greater firing range of the five AT-ATs. The ground troops can hadle the droid troopers with the E-WEBs from the heavy weapon platoon. The only problem I see is the Destroyer Droids. They probably account for most of the casualities.

Grimace
14 January 2002, 05:20 PM
The only problem with that idea, Lokar is that an Imperial garrison doesn't typically have Juggernaughts, nor do they typically have Army troopers. I just got done looking at the Star Wars sourcebook where the garrison contingent is listed, and it says somewhere along the lines of 800 Stormtroopers and close to 200 "troopers" (one might assume Army Troopers) for perimeter defense. So I don't really see the garrison depleting it's entire perimeter defense force to go hunting for pirates when they could just have easily dispatched 300 Stormtroopers to handle the job.

The other thing that made me think that these forces were not from a garrison is the fact that the only "support" they can hope to get is from orbiting ships. If they were dispatched from a garrison, I think the remaining AT-ATs, Stormtroopers, TIE fighters and TIE bombers could all be used as additional support. Granted, the ground forces couldn't get to the battle in time, but the TIEs certainly could!

That's why I assumed it was a deployed force from the ships. I was thinking that a majority of the forces would be Army Troopers, and based on what they were supposed to be doing on the planet (finding the pirate base), I simply plugged in an Assault Company (as two companies was too many people for what Nova Spice had listed).

I hope that explains a little better why I picked what I did. :)

The Admiral
14 January 2002, 09:48 PM
Another quick thought drifitng through my brain,,,

74Z's are big enough to carry two people, so the Commander could detail two squads of troops to ride pillion, each with a bag of grenades, now THAT'd sew some confusion in the TF Troops ranks. If they bikes went to max altitude, with the added benefit of the scouts being able to full dodge every round, they'd be all but impossible to hit,,,,

High speed low level tactical bombing on the cheap,,,

Kayle Skolaris
14 January 2002, 11:10 PM
Got a few questions...

Why isn't the Empire using orbital bombardment? Is there a Hoth-style theater shield in place?

Why is there no Imperial or Pirate air support? Again, is there a Hoth-style shield in place?

Have you taken into account the ranges available to the heavy armor's guns? If the valley is 1 kilometer long then The Admiral's force deployment has the Empire's aft-most AT-AT and the aft-most TF tank ~652 meters apart. Grimace's force deployment has the aft-most heavy combatants at a distance of ~599 meters apart. In both cases that's well within the medium range of the Empire's heavy guns and probably in the medium to long range of the TF tank's heavy guns as well. Additionally, considering the speeds at which STAPs and speeder bikes move, this is practically "oh pudu, we're gonna crash!!!" range.

If things begin to go poorly for them, something the Pirates may wish to try is detailing a dozen or so STAPs to attempt kamikaze maneuvers directed against the AT-ATs and Juggernauts. It might not work, but it's worth a shot. As presented, the Empire's heavy armor can shred absolutely anything on this field that it can hit. I suggest detailing at least two per armor unit since a single STAP, even on an all-out suicide run, isn't likely to penetrate an AT-AT or Juggernaut's heavy armor.

The Admiral
15 January 2002, 02:56 PM
Grr, server ate my first post, grrr, this will probably end up a little more succinct,,,

There may be many reasons why orbital bombardment is not available, at less than 1 km, I'd say they'd be too close to friendly troops. As for the pirates, well, explaining why the pirate's corvette isn't available might be a superb first section for the PCs to be involved with.

Yes, both Grim and I deployed within medium range, but you'll not that any farther back and we're in the forest. Trees don't have to be all that large to reperesnt a targetting problem for At-ATs.

'Pudu we're gonna crash?' Well, it's war, you risk nothing, you lose everything :-)

I'm nigh on certain that a full speed STAP suicide run on an AT-AT will do diddly-squit to an AT-AT. Might well knock an AT-ST off it's feet, but an AT-AT? It'd be like driving a motorcycle at full speed into thr front of an Abrahms tank. It's not going to matter how many Chapter's of Hells Angels you use, you are NOT going to hurt that tank.

Questions to Nova to clear up the details...

Why no orbital support?

Why no air suport?

What kinda special squads are in the Imp Faction?

More info on the party, please, I know their students, but who are they? What do they do?

Oh, and when is this battle schedduled to occur? it's pointless waffling on about what might happen if you played it yesterday ;-)

Rigil Kent
15 January 2002, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by The Admiral
There may be many reasons why orbital bombardment is not available, at less than 1 km, I'd say they'd be too close to friendly troops.

Snicker. "We'll hit their's as well."

You guys have done pretty well, even without an ex-grunt like me to pipe in.

Any chance of either side having the SW equivalent of FASTCAM?

Given that the pirates are using Trade Federation stuff, where is the droid control "ship"? Is it one of the vehicles involved? If the pirates have any brains whatsoever, it is far from the battle, perhaps near the PCs...

The Admiral
15 January 2002, 09:41 PM
"FASTCAM eh?"

(The Admiral grabs a camera, holds in in front of an At-At which promptly boots it into the middle of next week,,,,)

"That looked like a pretty fast cam to me,,,"

I think on the level of these droid troops, the controller wouldn't need to be very large. The droid forces represent a small proportion of one of them funny transport thing, er C-9979's.
1 C-9979: with 88 crew
28 Troop transports with 3136 troops 56 crew
11 MTT transports with 1232 troops and 55 crew
114 AAT tanks with 456 crew
A total of 5023 battle droids. (Eek!)

The troops here represent;
Troops transports 00%
MTT transports 90.9%
AAT tanks 17.5%
Of a C-9979's capacity.

Now each TF cruiser has 50 c-9979's, making a total of;
1400 Troop transports with 156,800 troops and 2800 crew,
550 MTT transports with 61,600 troops and 2750 crew,
5,700 AAT tanks with 22,800 crew
A total of 251,150 battle droids Eeek! Eeek!

And Incredible Crossections lists them as having an excees 100 troop transports and 550 spare AATs. Wierd.

Don't suppose anyone found any info on how many cruisers the TF sent to Naboo? Just out of curiosity. Eyeballing the film I'd say they packed about 8 directly over Theed.

Working on the ratios of Transports MTTs and AAT, it'd be more in keeping to have 7 transports, 3 MTTs and 30 AAts

BUT it's too early in the morning for all this and the numbers have run off with my brain,,,

Rigil Kent
16 January 2002, 04:08 AM
Sorry about that, with you guys tossing around tactics I just assumed you'd be familiar with them. I think the acronym stands for Field Artillery Scatterable Mines; they are basically mines that are fired from an artillery piece.

As to the size of the control vehicle, I just suggested it as an alternative route for the PCs to escape AND to establish the Imperial primary target.

Grimace
16 January 2002, 07:27 AM
Yes, (well, sorta) Field Artillery Scatterable Mines is known by the acronym FASCAM. (to my knowledge, there is not a "T" in it). Somehow I doubt the Empire is much into FASCAM projectiles for their artillery....or even ICM rounds.

If anything, I could see them using something akin to the CLGP rounds that we use today, but since everything I've read about the Empire suggests they use "blaster artillery", I have a feeling that Star Wars artillery is more of a standard "blast an area with a regular shot" type instead of a "use specialized ammo to cause area denial".

Nova Spice
16 January 2002, 04:58 PM
Sorry guys, had a b-ball game last night and wasnt able to post :)

Clarifications:

Why no orbital bombardment?
-The planet is Bimmisaari, home of the Bimms. The Imps are trying to recruit Bimmisaari to aiding the Imperial war machine because the Bimms have a large supply of food stuffs and goods since the Bimms are excellent hagglers.They dont want to obliterate the planet since the Bimms HATE violence. They are trying to quell the situation with minimal force without causing Bimm casualties.
-There is no shield generator either.

Why no air support?
-I never said there wasnt any Imperial air support. The Imps are unaware of the TF army and want the element of surprise. A TIE Fighter is quite noisy if ya catch my drift. ;)
-The pirates air support is currently escorting the evacuating pirates leaving their base. They are escaping the planet with the brunt of the TF army in their ships, so they are letting the ground TF army get slaughtered or sacrificed to save the greater purpose of escaping with 2/3 of a droid army intact. There might be a few Z-95s or R-41 Starchasers to help in the fight, but once they arrive, I'm sure the Imps will have already ordered air support.

This session is taking place Saturday and I will post in this thread to let everyone know how it turns out. :D

Nova Spice
19 January 2002, 03:28 PM
The battle went in the Empire's favor, as the flanking AT-STs combined with the AT-ATs eliminated the TF AATs early in the battle. Around 85 Imperial troops were killed, mainly due to droidekas. The droidekas didnt last long either as the Juggernauts and army troopers concentrated their fire on them.
Battle droid losses were around 90% as they were quickly disposed of by the stormtroopers and feet of the AT-ATs. The droids did manage to eliminate almost all of the scout troopers on speeder bikes as well as destroy a flanking unit of two AT-STs and 30 army troopers. All AATs and droidekas were lost. The AATs managed to bring down one AT-AT with a lucky shot to its vulnerable neck as well as three scout walkers.
Well, that's the summary, and the PCs enjoyed the adventure and the tactics along with the two wonderful maps done by Admiral and Grimace. Thank you very much for your great advice. ;)

Soontide
25 March 2002, 01:40 PM
I had some wonderful ideas for you nova, but it seems that you have already resolved the situation. I can assume that you will, at some point in the future, use imperial troops again, so I will share with you my views on the imperial standard method of attack.

First off and underpinning the basic stratigy is the idea that was used by the Nazi army during WWII. Fast attack with overwhelming forces.
Basically, the imperial forces would apply heavy weapons to soften up defensive positions then deploying armor units to further destroy resources and demoralize their opponents. Once this was done, they would insert stormtroopers to enter the battle in units consentrating on personel. Finally, the Imperial army would be brought in to secure the area and begin identifiying areas of intel and securing prisoners.

Nova Spice
25 March 2002, 04:14 PM
Well thanks Soontide but how in the world did this thread reappear? This situation took place well before Christmas and ths topic is VERY out of date. But thank you for your comments and your advice.

gmjabreson
16 June 2006, 09:49 AM
AFAIK, The Empire would use tactics much like the German Blitzkrieg. Rapid maneuver forces, infantry to secure rapid gains, and air cover ( in this case, the Star Destroyers and its Tie Compliment.
My question is, why so small a ground force by the Empire, was the SD operating below troop strength of 9600 troops?

and fyi FASCAM is not field artillery scatterable mines.. It is FAmily of SCAtterable Mines. Meaning a mixture of anti tank/anti infantry mines deployed in bundles of 5 by either aircraft or the volcano mine launching system.