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Talonne Hauk
28 January 2002, 08:25 PM
Okay, the Imperial military has its ranking system laid out in a fairly straight-forward manner. Imperial Army follows our army ranks, and Imperial Navy follows our navy ranks. Easy enough there. But has anyone figured out how the Rebels have their ranking system? It boggles my mind. And don't get me started on how a Lando-come-lately merits a General's comission over the guy who fired the shot that knocked the first Death Star out of comission...

dragonseye
29 January 2002, 02:52 PM
Well, I'm not exactly certain what it is that you want to know, so I will take a shot in the dark.

As to the difference between the ranks for Lando and Luke, I believe (now I'm not certain on exactly when) Luke gave up his rank in the Rebel army. Hence why Lando is a higher rank. Unfortuantely, I'm not certain on exactly when Luke does give up his rank, but I thought it was during the time period between Empire and Return. (Hopefully someone can confirm exactly when Luke gave up his rank.)

Also, just as in anybureaucracy, those who truly deserve to go up in rank may or may not depending on their luck.

The ranking system itself is basicaly a simplified version of the US's army/ naval ranking system. It can be found in the WEG Rebel Aliance source book for the d6 system on page 98.

(I hope this answers your question... if not let me know. :) )

Donovan Morningfire
29 January 2002, 06:27 PM
I don't profess to know much about how the Rebels work out their ranks and what-not, but I can offer some potential insight as why Luke stopped at Commander and Lando became a General.

As for Luke, they probably wanted to promote him to high command ranks, but he passed. Before Empire, Luke wanted to be where he was, at the helm of a squadron of starfighters. After Empire, he had found his true path, that of a Jedi Knight. I don't think he went of active duty until a few years after Endor, as he was still needed. And even after, he still passed up promotion opportunities left and right.

Now to Mr. Pimp-Daddy extraordinaire :D Lando probably has a heck of a reputation, as well as some pull from Han and Leia, that and he volunteered to help lead the Death Star raid, which probably not a lot of folks were clamoring to do. Lando had military experience, so he was given a command rank, probably just for the sake of PR he was made a General.

Moose
29 January 2002, 06:32 PM
I think that Lando BEGGED for the rank General I mean come on it has to work wonders on the ladies..." Hello I am General Lando Calrissian." Lady he is addressing swoons. Yeah Lando wanted the rank for the ladies:D

Talonne Hauk
29 January 2002, 07:34 PM
Well, my problem is that Lando is a General, for the above stated reason and more. You see, there's Admiral Ackbar, leading the entire battle. Now, I suppose Lando could be a General, leading the fighters. After all, the highest ranking officers in the U.S. Air Force are Generals. But unless I'm mistaken, the fighters are based off the Mon Cal cruisers like navy planes on carriers, meaning they should be under a navy chain of command. Ergo, Lando should have been a Commodore or Captain. If the Empire has two branches of military, wouldn't it make sense that the Rebels would have two branches also? What evidence is there of three branches of military?

Emperor Xanderich II
30 January 2002, 02:29 AM
I definately think that there is a three branch command structure. 'Starfighter Command' is separate from 'Fleet Command'.

In the books, Wedge is a commander, and he has captains under him in his squadron. Whereas in the navy, captain is above commander. This gives the impression that they are different command structures.

The ship captains will give their starfighter squadrons order because they are of a higher equivalent rank.

eg Wedge, commander

SF command

Lieutenant
Captain
Commander

FL command

Lieutenant
Lt. Commander
Commander
Captain

ie one higher.

We've changed the whole rank equivalence in our campaign to make it seem more realistic. For example in the army, a Lt. Colonel commands a battalion of troops (~ 500 men), in the navy he [i]would[i/] be equivalent to a captain, who would command a large ship such a mon cal cruiser. What is the crew of one of those, 20,000? So he should have a higher authority than the Lt. colonel. It makes it more complicated but it works in the end.:)

Jak Knife
30 January 2002, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by Talonne Hauk
Well, my problem is that Lando is a General, .... You see, there's Admiral Ackbar, leading the entire battle. Now, I suppose Lando could be a General, leading the fighters. After all, the highest ranking officers in the U.S. Air Force are Generals. But unless I'm mistaken, the fighters are based off the Mon Cal cruisers like navy planes on carriers, meaning they should be under a navy chain of command. Ergo, Lando should have been a Commodore or Captain.
Should have been yes, but Lando wasn't in the rebellion for the long haul. It was like "The battle of Endor with special guest general Lando" He was given the rank of general in the navy to make him stand out from the regulars like Ackbar. He had a level of authority but it was extremely limited. What better way of doing it then to give him a rank out side of the branch.
Or it could be the movie was written by someone who doesn't understand military ranks, after all GL went Stanford didn't he?

Rogue Janson
30 January 2002, 10:09 AM
Also in the X-Wing series of books, a general can be the commander of a fighter wing (as in General Salm; possibly colonels can as well, I don't know what rank Pash Cracken was when he lead a wing). Lando also lead a "wing" of fighters at Endor, albeit apparently one of four giant wings made up from multiple fighter groups.

Having said that, the rank structure of the Alliance has been a mystery for me for ages.

As for why Lando was made a general and Luke wasn't, there are lots of good reasons, most of which have already been summarised, but it's also worth noting that Luke isn't really as good a tactician and leader as Lando and Han, at least until his force skills are much better developed (he has trouble with a command during the Bakura incident).

Deck
31 January 2002, 08:57 AM
Yes, the Rebel ranks are a mystery, definitely. I spent much time trying to figure out a system for them myself, but it's difficult... I ran into many problems, such like: Why does a General also command naval fleets, although having an Army rank? Why are there Generals with blue dots, and such with red ones? Okay there are Briagier General, Major Generals, Lt. Generals, Generals, Generals of the Army...

However, there is an approach at TFN. You can access it here:

<a href="http://www.theforce.net/swtc/domino.html">Rebel Ranks</a>

Talonne Hauk
31 January 2002, 06:44 PM
Thanks Deck. That link was very helpful.
Rogue Janson, that signature is one of the funniest I've read!
My brother was reading one of the X-Wing books, and it mentioned Luke was promoted to General. Of course, this was post Endor. About time, I'd say.

DirkGreystoke
2 February 2002, 08:22 AM
Or it could be the movie was written by someone who doesn't understand military ranks, after all GL went Stanford didn't he?

As for this, Lucas went to USC. But for ranks, I would just use the Rebel Sourcebook and go from there. Personally, i just went over to using naval ranks for everyone just to make it simplier. It is obvious to me that the ranks work different in SW than in real life. It is a galaxy far far away after all, so there is no logical reason to assume that they should be the same as ours, i.e. the naval and army are different. In other countries this is not so. Perhaps he looked to them, I don't know. But just use the sourcebook or watch the movies and base it on that. I think those are the two best ways to go. Good luck.

QWERTY
8 February 2002, 05:55 AM
after darsaber the new republic navy took command of all forces so one ranking system was used I think

Lokar
8 February 2002, 04:13 PM
I never liked the rank system used in the Rebel Sourcebook (I never thought they did a good job in explaining the Alliance's military forces, but did do a good job in the government and intelligence aspects). As for the move in Darksaber I though it was a poor attempt to to UFPize the NR by the EU authors. Personally, I use the rank system from Saxon's site.