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Ghost In The Holocron
5 March 2002, 06:59 PM
Hello all. I'm posting this in the hopes that you folks could help me with some creative input on how to capitalize on a story situation that has come up in my game.

Here's what happened:

I recently started my campaign with a party of four (actually more, but the others haven't played recently): A wookiee spacer, two jedi (consular and guardian/noble, both female), and a 12-yr old (in human yrs) falleen noble. Time frame is Jedi Purge, after Clone Wars, before Rebellion -- say about 10-15 years before Battle of Yavin 4.

The two jedi have been assigned to "babysit" the 12yr old falleen noble and together with him recover some important documents (a list of Jedi safehouses and the codes to them). The documents were long ago delivered for safekeeping to the falleen noble's family (who owe the Jedi favors from services past) -- only the 12yr old's genetic code can unlock the documents. The jedi and the noble have hired the wookiee (and his mercenary friend who wasn't able to play last time), to furtively ferry them about (wookiee owns a small old transport) and provide the big guns if necessary. The party does not know the contents of the documents as yet. They will be tasked to destroy the documents once they are recovered.

Now on their way to the documents (located in a secret underground vault in the University of Agamar, Outer Rim), they are waylaid by a group of ubese bounty hunters who manage to kidnap the noble child. They fight desperately to recover the 12yr old, and persevere despite a tense hostage situation (where, interestingly, the noble stumps the bounty hunters by threatening to blow his own brains out!). They turn the tables on their hunters and interrogate them -- the 12yr old noble and leads the process, aided by the Jedi. They find out things, etcetera, etcetera.

But, at the end of the interrogation -- and this is where a decidely dark twist comes into play -- while everyone else's guard is down, the falleen kid, fresh from his ordeal, asks one of the ubese: "So, how much was I worth?" To which the hunter replies in retaliation, "3,000 creds. Your cheaper than a crippled bantha sow, you little --bleep, bleep, bleep (mature audiences only)-- !!!" Suddenly, in a fit of rage and tantrum brought on (I suppose) by the trials of his kidnapping and near-death, our 12yr old falleen noble draws his blaster, sets it against the bound ubese's head and... BANG! --- murder in cold blood, and the first Dark Side Point in the campaign is earned by the party's youngest member. He is now no longer a child.

As GM, I was happilly aghast at the development! We ended the session there and now I can't wait for this weekend to see what happens. The remaining ubese bounty hunter is scared to death behind his unrevealing breath mask, the two jedi ladies are in shock (although, I didn't give them a DSP since they were completely off guard and never saw it coming -- should I have?), the wookiee is in shock (although he doesn't reveal it, just nods quiet understanding to the boy), the gamemaster is in shock as well (and scrambling to adjust!)

Seeing as this is a point in the story where some good character development can occur, how do I now capitalize on the situation?

Any and all comments are welcome, and thanks in advance for the input!

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
5 March 2002, 07:24 PM
Hmm... the young Falleen in the company of 2 female jedi on the light side... I'd definatly think the 2 jedi would "educate" the young one about right & wrong, and how best to get the Falleen to possibly see this as a wrong action. Especially murder in cold blood... (most likely in quarters seperate fro the Ubeese) Is the Falleen a good natured young adult or does he have a mean streak in him? Is he going to regret his actions or think nothing at all by them?

At the same time, the other Ubeese is scared senseless... Take advantage of that and play the situation to it's advantage and perhaps find out who the Ubeese's empoyers are... Perhaps that could lead to unravel it's own adventure or major story plot twist...

Perhaps the dead Ubeese had bluffed in spite of the reverse situation and the other Ubeese is willing to be more co-operative...

or, the Falleen caps the other Ubeese and really takes a turn for the dark side...

Hmmm, the Falleen isn't jedi or force sensitive is he? not sure about giving him dark side points unless he's gonna become force sensitive...

I'm definately new to the rpg playing, but the possibilities to carry on from this point on are wide open and bountyfull... coining up some of these ideas have been fun!

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
5 March 2002, 08:01 PM
Has the Falleen been setup?

maybe a tracer planted aboard the ship they're traveling on?

The wookie does nothing but shrugs...(not to blow cover) Maybe there's a connection between the wookie & the Ubese? or the wookie is working for an higher order on a secret level with it's own agenda?

Or has the setup been planned for the 2 Jedi instead? with the Falleen used as bait, pawn or key factor to their beleiving? After all, the jedi are on the search for safehouses and such...


just more random brainy ideas :D

reliant
6 March 2002, 05:09 AM
I think the kid DEFINATELY deserved one, but none of his companions did. The jedi didn't know what the kid was up to and by the time they did, it was too late. Ditto for their wookie pal. Now as for non force sensitive characters getting DSP - ANYONE can get DSP as far as I am concerned.

As for character developement and where to go from here, I have a few ideas... First you could have the other bounty hunter spill his guts and tell them anything/everything he knows (he wants to avoid having his head explode like his buddy's). Also the jedi have a long term goal now and that is to watch the kid and make sure he stays on the straight and narrow rather than getting more DSP and becoming evil before he can even shave. Ditto for the wookie. Or maybe the wookie agrees with the kid (thus making room for some inner-group conflict). Either way, if your player wants to play the faleen like that, I think you could very easily put him in situations where he could earn more DSP and the other characters would be forced to deal with the kid and his growing evil-ness.

dgswensen
6 March 2002, 07:34 AM
A lot depends on the Falleen's reaction to what he's done. If he shows no remorse or feels nothing over this act, then your dramatic options (to me at least) are not quite as interesting. If the kid is a cold-blooded killer at heart, well, that's what he'll grow up to be, and there's not too much more story to be had from this moment -- in my opinion anyway. If he killed the guy and just doesn't care, well, where's the fuss?

On the other hand, if he feels a lot of remorse, or even ambivalence, then maybe have him be haunted by it. Give him the occasional nightmare, or have recurring themes that play to this moment crop up in the game. Not constantly, but just to the point where it's never quite forgotten. One of the big themes in Star Wars is the single act that can start someone down the path to darkness, and I think there's lots of ways you can play to that. While it may or may not serve your purposes to have some hard-bitten bounty hunter come up to him and say "I heard about what you did, kid, you've got potential," there are other things you can do, like subtly make equally violent resolutions that much easier -- so before he knows it, this boy is less of a Noble than a Soldier. If that happens, though, it might be interesting to keep plenty of reminders of his old life around -- so he knows what has been left behind.

One thing I think might be fun is if you can let that other Ubese get away. If he can escape, then, a few adventures down the line, maybe when the kid's aged and grown more experienced, he and the Ubese can have a battle royale. The Ubese comes back for vengeance, or just to prove himself, and "this time he's not tied up!"

I hope some of that might be of help.

Reverend Strone
6 March 2002, 02:17 PM
This is tricky because as a GM you don't really have control over how player characters react, so really, the way this plays out depends on how all the players react to it, the Falleen kid included.

If it were me, I'd be inclined to let them drive thie initial reactions to this development, then as you gauge a feeling for how they are all settling with the aftermath and character implications, you'll be better informed to capitaliise on it as your campaign develops. Then you can set about introducing new threads that may offer further opportunities for the young Falleen to explore his character and how he now relates to the Jedi. In the end though, it's really up to the players how this affects things between them.

You must have had a plan for what happens next prior to the Falleen going nuts, so I'd be inclined to coninue as before and see how the new inter-character dynamic manifests itself in the game.

Isn't it fantastic when players throw you a curve ball like that? It's amazing and exhilarating how an adventure can take on its own life. Good luck!

darth maim
6 March 2002, 03:36 PM
I had an interesting idea spring from reading this.... just follow me here for a minute.

First of all definately the 2nd Ubese needs to spill his guts about EVERYTHING and do it with such fear that he nearly wets himself (or perhaps does so)... Next I'm assuming the Jedi are going to release this Ubese as a result of his partner's murder... Word of this encounter needs to spread. Give the Falleen some REP points in underworld dealings for this (and definately a DSP) If the adolescent falleen had no real remorse over this the wookiee could easily capitalize on this new reputation and spread the word of a new boss in town. Think Kingpin from Marvel comics on this one... how cool would it be to give the 12 year old a level in Crimelord. He would of course use an alia and the 3 (wook, his partner and the brat) would have to keep this info from the Jedi. Also interesting would be that word would spread that this new boss had Jedi working for him... Once the Jedi got word of this the 2 would start asking around and the whole time the new boss would be right under their noses manipulating the situation all along. If they need the Jedi to show up somewhere for intimidation factor the wook or his partner could let slip with a little info "gleaned from the underworld" that so-and-so with heavy connections to the fallen Jedi and the new boss was going to be in this cantina at this time. The jedi show up asking about this scumbag and suddenly whatever the falleen and crew were trying to get accomplished through him is done. Why? becuase he finds out it's true that the Jedi are in the boss' pocket.

Wow... I think I may run something like this only NPC the noble kid.

Reverend Strone
6 March 2002, 04:41 PM
Very nice idea Darth Maim!

dgswensen
6 March 2002, 04:47 PM
Wow. Good on you, Darth Maim -- wish I'd thought of that :)

Ghost In The Holocron
6 March 2002, 06:33 PM
Hey. A big thanks to everyone for very interesting responses. Darth Maim's really got me thinking entire plotline months in advance!

Truth be told, the player for the 12yr old noble did give some hints last time about taking some crimelord PrC levels. And, yes -- that would really be so cool. I'm still going to discuss the situation with all the players this weekend, so I'll find out more by then. In connection to this, Darth Maim's suggestion of using an alias may work rather well. Plus, the whole repuation thing -- the kid actually took the Fame feat at 1st level (they are now at 3rd), which now I suppose will start turning into Infamy -- Wow! I am going to let the remaining ubese go out and spread the word for sure -- "Tell 'em 'Killah Kid' sent ya!"

About the Wookiee: I've found out recently that all the wookiee spacer really wants is to design a starship of his own -- and he isn't that comfortable with tieing up his plans with our 12yr old budding crimelord. That's something I'll have to "massage" in-game as the campaign develops. His mercenary partner wants the same also, but tends to be much less wary of where his eventual funding will come from. I'm considering setting up the wook to be saved by the 12yr old -- ergo: life debt. I'm very wary of being too heavy-handed though, so we'll see. Good of revstrone to remind me to guage my players before trying to pull off anything big. Thanks!

About the Jedi: Ah, the times make strange bedfellows for the Jedi. In the campaign's bigger picture right now, the ideals the Jedi have so nobly upheld have been reduced to little more than a struggle for survival. It behooves them to make use of what resources they can -- even if it's a 12yr old noble-turning-crimelord. That way, they can more easily evade the Empire -- and, at the same time, make sure the 12yr old doesn't go over to the Dark Side.

About the Dark Side: The nightmares are a great suggestion. They will definitely come into play this weekend. Another thing that looms large for me now is the immanent destruction of Falleen's capital by Vader. It hasn't happened yet. When it eventually does (shudder)... great god... the things that will happen to the kid!

Again, thanks all! If anyone else has any comments and suggestions -- bring them on!

PS: If anyone is interested -- I will likely post the kid's stats at the "We were wondering if anyone would like to share?" thread in a few days -- when I get his player's go signal. I'm likely to post a sketch of the 12yr old "Duke Xinji" as well -- I like to draw a bit, bear with me. I promise it won't be all that bad.

The Admiral
6 March 2002, 08:29 PM
our 12yr old falleen noble draws his blaster

Both Jedi PC's should earn DSPs. No question. They permitted a 12yo to carry a blaster? That's inaction contributing to cold blooded murder.

We used to have a similarly aged PC. She did everything she could to get hold of a blaster so she could be 'one of the boys'. The party were an amoral bunch of guns for hire but even THEY knew not to arm children. Jediare supossed to know better.

Reverend Strone
6 March 2002, 08:41 PM
Well Ghost, I look forward to hearing how it all goes. Please let us know how things play out for you. I'm sure a bunch of the folks who posted here would be interested to hear about it after all the great ideas that have been thrown in.

"..and you young Xinji; we shall watch your career with great interest" (fade to black)...

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
6 March 2002, 09:11 PM
I'd also like to know how this game of yours turns out!

it's lots of fun reading an rpg dilema like yours and having the ol' thinker churning out possible ideas for it and seeing how many others have similar or different ideas :)

darth maim
6 March 2002, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by The Admiral


Both Jedi PC's should earn DSPs. No question. They permitted a 12yo to carry a blaster? That's inaction contributing to cold blooded murder.

We used to have a similarly aged PC. She did everything she could to get hold of a blaster so she could be 'one of the boys'. The party were an amoral bunch of guns for hire but even THEY knew not to arm children. Jediare supossed to know better.

Remember though that a 12 yo Falleen is considered an adolescent technically (on par with Luke at the beginning of ANH -- still lives at home etc. Not quite an adult but close) and for a Falleen to put his full trust in anyone of another species (especially for a Noble) is ridiculous. From the description they absolutely had to have this kid or they were treading water and wasting time. If the only way to get agreement of help is to let him slide with a blaster for personal defense so be it. Christ if 9 year old Anakin skywalker can be trusted by a Jedi to race a dangerous vehicle at ludicrous speeds I don't see letting a blaster be carried as that bad.

The Admiral
6 March 2002, 11:55 PM
Remember though that a 12 yo Falleen is considered an adolescent technically
According to what source?
"Falleen are long-lived, with an average lifespan nearing 250 standard years, some exceptional Fallen are known to have lived as long as 400 years." Star Wars: Alien encounters pp 46
Long-lived species would under most circumstances set their developmental milestone later in life, not sooner. A 12 yo Falleen is (in human years) analogous to a 5 year old human, not a 17 year old one.



For a Falleen to put his full trust in anyone of another species (especially for a Noble) is ridiculous.
Quite so, however that has no bearing whatsoever on the wisdom of giving a child a lethal weapon.


If the only way to get agreement of help is to let him slide with a blaster for personal defense so be it.
You can't seriously be suggesting that two adult Jedi are incapable of dealing with a petulant child in any other way than to concede to his demands, no matter how foolish they are?


Christ if 9 year old Anakin skywalker can be trusted by a Jedi to race a dangerous vehicle at ludicrous speeds I don't see letting a blaster be carried as that bad.
I would think there is a diametric difference between allowing a powerful force user who can see the future as had safely done so many times before, to pilot a vehicle, and giving a lethal weapon to a child. The two are incomparable.

Either way, if a person takes responsibility for a child, then that child's actions are also their responsibility.

if Anakin had crashed, it would be Shmi and Qui-Gon's fault, not Anakin's.

If this Falleen kills someone with a blaster given to him, (or having been allowed to keep by) the Jedi who have undertaken responsibility for him, then THEY are at fault when he kills someone. Hence, DSP for each. (Assuming equal complicity in allowing the blaster to remain in the child's hands.)

Whether or not they should have allowed the kid to be armed, would seem to me to be a very clear cut situation. The answer is 'no'.

Whether they take responsibility for the events that transpired after they allowed the kid to be armed, would seem to me, also a clear cut situation. The asnwer is 'yes'.

Ghost In The Holocron
7 March 2002, 05:20 AM
Whoa, folks!

To help clear some things up:

(1) Xinji is equal in stature and maturity to a human of about 12 standard years. I don't have AE or all that, but that's how we're playing it. He's in the early stages of falleen adolescence.

(2) Nobody knew he still had a blaster. He managed to conceal the weapon from everyone until that very moment when he blasted the ubese's brains out. Prior to that, he did use a blaster from one of the downed hunters to threaten the others to back down or else they'll never get him alive. He threw that blaster away as soon as the rest of the party got things under control. No one actually gave him a blaster.

The fact that he had a blaster in the first place was my decision as GM. It fit in well with his concept which was noble/scoundrel and not just plain noble. His family would have either given it to him for protection (being a noble), either that or he would have managed to steal it himself (being somewhat of a scoundrel as well) -- hmmm, I should ask the player about that.

(If you think the blaster is bad, you should see his bodyguard droideka! -- very buggy and almost always out for repairs, but truly horrifying when it surfaces in play. The unit is played as an NPC with hero levels by one of our friends who drops by every 2-3 weeks or so for his gaming fix.)

(3) About responsibility: Right now, the Jedi do clearly see their role in Xinji's push toward maturity. I'll let the players figure out the details this weekend. In the meantime, Xinji takes all responsiblity for his recent actions (he gets the DSP, no one else... yet). He will no doubt continue to do so in the future as I will be making sure he (and the others) don't forget that choices always have consequences. It will all be part of the little duke's "growing up".

With the many dangers that await our heroes, I will also be allowing the kid -- indeed, even encouraging him -- to keep a blaster or some other weapon. But clearly, the role of the others now is to teach him the proper use of weapons (or they might get DSPs themselves through inaction).

We'll see how it plays out.

Ghost In The Holocron
7 March 2002, 05:37 AM
Ghost here again. I just got this via email from one of my players who has been out of town for the past month. Apparently he has gotten wind of what's been happening to the others and has offered his suggestions for the plot. Thought you guys might appreciate hearing about it as well:


Just a thought: Maybe you can have Duke Xinji undergo some kind of falleen clan test or ritual (for nobles of his clan) as a result of his murder of the helpless ubese. This clan test supposedly determines the strength of the person's will and his capacity to rule and make tough decisions. Kinda like the Atreides fire test in Dune. He could fail, be dishonored and stripped of his title (and proceed down the path of being crimelord) or pass, barely, and live with the burden, responsibility and expectation of being the youngest ever to pass it (of course, he will be tormented all the time). Either way would be a good development for the story.

-- K.Klaw
Sounds interesting too, neh?

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
7 March 2002, 06:08 AM
that does put an interesting spin on things...

It would be interesting to see how that would play out... I don't think the game would be the same in either case whether Xinji passes the test and start onto a hard road, or fail it and delve into the crimelord ways...

Hmm, interesting thought here - How would this impact Xinji in a personal way? (emotionally, reactions, etc) filling him with regret over his actions, to live with the hard burdon of pasing the test early or free him to do as he pleases?

destiny 1 - passes the test: would the jedi be of good influence on him and help keep him on the right path with guidance? or would he still eventually delve into crimelordways (and how would the party react?) ?

destiny 2 - failes the test: how would this impact Xinji being with the two jedi? would they still stand by him trying to lessen the impact and still try to guide him towards good? or would they dis-asociate themselve as the falleen further becomes sinister? would they cross paths later down the road if they split?

how would this affect the wookie's hired status to the party?

i'm not saying those would happen, but those are the ideas & questions that just came to my mind anyways... :)

Dark Knight
7 March 2002, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by The Admiral

According to what source?
"Falleen are long-lived, with an average lifespan nearing 250 standard years, some exceptional Fallen are known to have lived as long as 400 years." Star Wars: Alien encounters pp 46
Long-lived species would under most circumstances set their developmental milestone later in life, not sooner. A 12 yo Falleen is (in human years) analogous to a 5 year old human, not a 17 year old one.



Quite so, however that has no bearing whatsoever on the wisdom of giving a child a lethal weapon.


You can't seriously be suggesting that two adult Jedi are incapable of dealing with a petulant child in any other way than to concede to his demands, no matter how foolish they are?


I would think there is a diametric difference between allowing a powerful force user who can see the future as had safely done so many times before, to pilot a vehicle, and giving a lethal weapon to a child. The two are incomparable.

Either way, if a person takes responsibility for a child, then that child's actions are also their responsibility.

if Anakin had crashed, it would be Shmi and Qui-Gon's fault, not Anakin's.

If this Falleen kills someone with a blaster given to him, (or having been allowed to keep by) the Jedi who have undertaken responsibility for him, then THEY are at fault when he kills someone. Hence, DSP for each. (Assuming equal complicity in allowing the blaster to remain in the child's hands.)

Whether or not they should have allowed the kid to be armed, would seem to me to be a very clear cut situation. The answer is 'no'.

Whether they take responsibility for the events that transpired after they allowed the kid to be armed, would seem to me, also a clear cut situation. The asnwer is 'yes'.

According to Alien Anthology... look at the age table in the back. Faleen at 12 years old are considered in the beginning stages of adolescence and no longer merely children.

Also I thought of a little more about the crimelord option... do you think he might model himself after and eventually try to associate with xixor and the black sun? I mean come on two Falleen nobles running crime syndicates.... Since they are rarely seen in the galaxy this may give them a negative racial rep like unto the hutts.

Dark Lord Drax
7 March 2002, 05:08 PM
This is a very interesting situation. First, I'd like to mention that no one came up with the potentially ironic situation of later having the remaining ubesse capture the falleen, bind him, and put a blaster to his head. Of course, give the Jedi a chance to save him, but this would at least scare some sense of regret into the falleen.

Now, about the moral issues of two Jedi allowing a child to carry blasters. I agree that if the Jedi knew the child was carrying a blaster, that they would have been responsible. However, those of us who only read these posts do not know if the child always carried a blaster, if he picked it up off one of those bounty hunters before the interrogation, or if he kept one concealed that the Jedi were not aware of. Now, real Jedi could have used the Farseeing ability and predicted the danger in advance, however this is a game, and Farseeing is a lot harder to use in game. How is the GM supposed to predict the actions of other PCs when one decides to use Farsee?
Now, if the Jedi knew about the gun, then sure they are responsible. Should they get a DSP? Well, that's not black or white, it's more of a gray. The Core Rules say that evil acts earn DSPs. They even give the example of killing a helpless prisoner. Heck, I gave a DSP to a non-Force-sensitive Nohgri who shot a helpless male victim in the groin because of unneccessary torture. Now, the Jedi committed no real evil act. Our way of thinking, and the ways of the Force are not the same. In our terms, the Jedi were responsible for the child. However, in light of the Force, and terms such as that, it was not the Jedi who killed, they simply allowed the child to possess a weapon. It was ultimately the child's decision to kill.
I am not too knowledgeable about Falleen, but if the child felt that he had to kill the bounty hunter out of some moral obligation to himself, then it would have been wrong for the Jedi to stop him. If it were part of the child's culture to kill someone like that, then the Jedi would have been wrong to interfere with his culture.

However, I would like to raise a point. The GM was right. Falleen reach adolescence at 12, according to the Alien Anthology sourcebook. So, being an adolescence, one could argue that he is old enough to make his own decisions, thereby the Jedi were not responsible.

The Admiral
8 March 2002, 12:12 AM
Should they get a DSP? Well, that's not black or white, it's more of a gray. The Core Rules say that evil acts earn DSPs.

It also states explicitly that inaction to prevent evil earns a DSP. This isn't grey, it's clear cut. Inaction is the real bane, it's quite easy to chose not to do evil things, it's far more tricky to make sure you're not allowing evil to happen by proxy.

However, whilst the intial post implied that the Falleen's blaster was known about, the clarification renders my initial point moot. You can't be blamed for something you couldn't have stopped.

From a gameplay standpoint I would have allowed the Jedi characters to make a reaction roll to the Falleen pulling the blaster. TK, say, to knock it aside. There's room in this sort of circumstance for a 'too fast for players, but not too fast for the characters' call.

If it were a plot central event, you can set aside the plausibility, but the threads nature indicates it was an unplanned event, with a whole bunch of interesting outcomes.
Where the story goes afterwards is one question, and there are lots of interesting ideas already churning away.
There is the other question of responsibility et al, which hadn't been covered.

darth maim
8 March 2002, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by The Admiral


It also states explicitly that inaction to prevent evil earns a DSP. This isn't grey, it's clear cut. Inaction is the real bane, it's quite easy to chose not to do evil things, it's far more tricky to make sure you're not allowing evil to happen by proxy.


I have never actually seen anywhere that this is explicitly stated... perhaps you could point me in the right direction.

Mind you this is how it is generally handled but that is because as GM you generally assert your moral ideals as those of the force. Think about it if this were the case Yoda should be a full fledged Sith Master by the time Luke gets to him. With all his power and wisdom he sat on his ass and let Vader and Palpatine destroy planets and rape the galaxy... why out of fear? DSP! out of bitter anger at a galaxy that turned it's back as Jedi were hunted and killed? DSP! Just because he let it slide until he had someone more capable of halting it? [According to the inaction theory] DSP!

Besides Yoda only trained Luke as a living weapon to kill his father!! What an evil little bastich.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
8 March 2002, 05:22 AM
As a misguided Yoda would have replied: "Evil little bastich I am, Hmmm???" *shoots lightning from his fingers and zaps Luke* "Yes, suffer you will!"

Yoda taught Luke the fundementals of how to sense the force and how to use it... He also taught luke some fundementals of being a Jedi. The whole point of having sent luke into the cave was to teach luke about fear and hatred. Yoda warned luke about the dark side

If Yoda had not fled, he would have been hunted down like the rest of the jedi.
That would have been the right thing to do as one jedi can't stop a whole legion of jedi hunters, at least not without turning over to the dark side in eradicating them out.
By Yoda fleeing, he did serve a purpose later when luke came along... perhaps he forseen it? that's my perspective anyways...

I guess there's always that fine line between dark & light. Lots of times theres only shades of gray. Sometimes you have to do bad things to accomplish good. it's much the exact oposite of "the road to h*ll is often paved with good intentions"

So give the kid a darkside point and he can always work to redeem it off and do some good by it. If the 2 jedi feel bad it hapened then they don't deserve a DSP. If they cheer him on and congratulate him for the actions then by all means give them a DSP. A jedi can't always forsee someone's actions so they cant always affect the imediate happenings, but what is important is how they react to & handle the situation for the better of it after the fact.

Only thing I hadn't seen mentioned yet is this: just because Xinji is humanoid, he's still Falleen after all. Don't always expect humanoids to react to a situation in the exact same manner as a human would. (Just because a cat & a dog have similar features in appearance such as 4 feet, tail, similar jaw type - it don't mean they're gonna behave the same way)

Maybe the Falleen society veiws things in a slightly different way than humans, especially on some topics. This should be taken into account.

reliant
8 March 2002, 05:31 AM
I really don't think the jedi deserve DSP. Even if they had known the kid was gonna do it, the MOST they should have done was try to talk him out of it. If he still blasted the bounty hunter, the jedi STILL wouldn't deserve DSP. The kid got his DSP, and if he continues along his current path, I see the opportunity for you to give him more (thus making him darker and darker). Your jedi characters would then have a goal in trying to keep the kid from becoming completely evil. Lots of possibilities... The question I have, is do you think your player (who plays the falleen) will do the same thing given a similar situation? If so, I'd say put him in that situation and then see where he takes it. Give him enough dark rope to hang himself and then watch the jedi scramble to try and contain the kids evil urges... :D

darth maim
8 March 2002, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Terras Jadeonar & Raven
If Yoda had not fled, he would have been hunted down like the rest of the jedi.
That would have been the right thing to do as one jedi can't stop a whole legion


hmmm.... you mean like Luke did? Come on if little rookie Luke could face down the emporer and Vader and come away ok what the hell was stopping Yoda? The entire Empire by ANH is in essence a group of Jedi Hunters.... Doesn't seem to stop Luke (who in my opinion is no sterling example of Jedi). Yoda just stashed himself off... Don't try to rationalize it.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
8 March 2002, 10:12 AM
Vader did not intentionally try to strike down Luke, but try to convert him over to the dark side...

Secondly, Luke did get his britches cleaned by the Emporer ... then Vader stepped in and turned on the Emporer to save Luke. Vader killed the emporer and Luke did not kill Vader, though as we know Vader's heroic turn-over cost him fataly.

Now, about Yoda fleeing... There was a large number of Jedi Hunters back then... trained to hunt down & kill jedi. After that event, Jedi were very scarce after on... Most either became one with the force as the tried to fight for their lives and those who did survive went into deep cover for survival... What ever happend to Mace Windu and the others? Both Obi Wan & Yoda did the smart thing...

And just because the majority of Jedis were wiped out, it didn't mean there would never be any Jedi around in future generations... Anikin's own borne children for starters... Clearly, Fleeing may not have been the heroic thing to do, but there had to remain Jedi masters to counsel such new generations of force talented beings...

Explain this: If yoda and Obi-Wan had stood up to the jedi hunters and became one with the force... who would have been around to teach luke about his talents? would they in time have been notived by vader & the emporer and trained in the dark ways? How about all the force adept people luke rounded up when starting his academy? Who would have trained them into jedi knight hood?

Always to keep the circle unbroken, for if there's a jedi master, there will always be potential for new jedis.

or to quote the more familiar... "There is always 2. A master and an aprentice"

Now that is an enjoyable discusion worth taking part in :)

btw, for an extensive SW timeline ... give this a look (http://www.paradoxnet.com/compendium/timeline.html)

And take a look at 18BBY: (Before Battle of Yavin)
- Anakin Skywalker is killed by Darth Vader.
- Jedi Knights are hunted and killed in the Jedi Purges.
- Palpatine declares himself Emperor.
- The Empire is formed.
- The first strings of the Rebellion are formed.
- The signing of the Corellian Treaty.
- Commander Tarkin leads the Ghorman Massacre.
- Mon Mothma goes into hiding as she begins organizing the Rebellion against the "New Order".
- Anakin Skywalker's "wife" goes into hiding and gives birth to Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa. Luke is placed with Kenobi's brother Owen Lars on Tatooine. Leia and her mother are placed into the custody of Bail Organa.
- Palpatine seizes control of the Republic's military and declares emergency Martial Law, for the sake of the Empire.
- Kenobi and Vader Battle for the first time.
- Vader falls into a molten pit and is left for dead.
- Kenobi goes to visit Yoda on Dagobah then takes Luke into hiding on Tatooine, where he also goes into hiding.

reliant
8 March 2002, 10:36 AM
Not to venture too far off topic, but this has always bugged me. If I was luke I would be really xxangryxx at obi-wan. Think about it. Leia gets to go to alderaan and be a princess, meanwhile luke is stuck on a moisture farm in the middle of a desert world. Luke gets the shaft...

Edit: Please refrain from using words others may find offensive
Thanks, Emp.Xan.

ironwolf56
9 March 2002, 06:37 AM
All this talk about giving the Jedis DSPs has got me thinking. Why the HELL do some of you give them out so easy? I mean think of the movies, the Jedis kill plenty of people and allow others to do the same without getting them. My take on it is this: unless it's a BLATANT violation (torture, or some such) then if it helps the greater good in the end, it is okay

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
9 March 2002, 08:39 AM
Ok, quick referances from the movie and then I move back OnTopic to the Xinji & Jedi case :)

when drawing a weapon and killing somone who's defenseless, thats just bad.

if your engaged in heated combat in which your oponents is trying to kill you or others, then it's alright...

If your thinking of Luke who blew up the deathstar... my only reasoning is this - the deathstar already blown up Alderaan and is a weapon to do such genocide to other planets. Taking it out was for the greater good of the galaxy, preventing further mass destruction.

In Xinji's case, he first threatened to kill himself which turned the hostage situation backwards... and secondly, the 2 ubese became the defenseless prisoners. Xinji took a blaster pistol and blasted one ubese point blank without hesitation or second thought... murder in cold blood. earning himself 1 DSP.

As good as jedis are with there force powers, they can't simply control everything around them. It should not be their fault because of that. No DSP for the jedis...

If the situation was that the jedi knew they could have done something to prevent Xinji and refrained to ... then ya, that should be a DSP for each jedi.

I'm thinking that the force and sensing works in the way of reading a being's intent. If Xinji stood for several minutes internally debating it or reacted slower to firing that pistol, then i'm sure both jedi would have picked it up... but if Xinji fired that pistol without thought as if it were a natural instinctive reflex response then the jedi coud not have sensed it quick enough in time to do anything... once again - DSP for Xinji but none for the Jedi....

There, I hope this brings the conversation back on topic! :)

Ghost In The Holocron
9 March 2002, 08:41 AM
Hello again, all.

First things first, about the whole DSP thing:

Things are fast turning into a debate here. And that's a good thing. Its always interesting to read different points of view on the matter -- forums are meant for these things.

I, for one, am not that strict with DSPs, as you may have noticed. The current issue with the kid and the Jedi is somewhat gray to me (for a number of reasons you might infer from my posts) -- and that's how I've called it in-game: give a DSP to the kid, and for the others maybe wait and see for a while.

In relation to this matter, I'd like to explain how I run DSPs in my game. From the forums here at HoloNet, I've learned that perhaps too often DSPs are metted out by GMs as punishment for a player/character's evil acts. I tend to shy away from using them like that. As essentially a guage of a character's darker nature, I'd like to use them more as a roleplaying tool than some sort of balancing, punishing, or even rewarding factor. Thus, I'd be encouraging a player to "act out his DSPs". I wouldn't at all be that happy if my Jedi acts bright and sunny all the time despite having say 5 DSPs. I'd expect her (all my current Jedi are female) to be perhaps somewhat "disturbed" or "plagued", a bit on the edge, if you will. I lay out the options -- dark and light (sometimes one more than the other) -- and it's always the player's choice: character is as character does. Should she choose the "dark path" I'd expect it to be reflected in her in-game actions, manner, and bearing. On my side, I aim to reflect the same in how she perceives the world around her. Somehow, it seems more fun when (for the most part) DSPs are decided by both the GM and the player as a collaborative attempt to heighten certain aspects of the character and the campaign.

Having said all that, I don't want the above to sound preachy, up on my high horse, tooting my little horn and all. My apologies if I did, but there's my $0.02 on the matter.

Now, about our little 12yr old falleen: Well, it's beddy-bye-time here now and in about 12 hours I'm off to the trenches to consult with the players and get the game going! Whooweee! Tell you guys all about it in a day or two! Have fun out there!

BrianDavion
9 March 2002, 08:47 AM
that time line has some SERIOUS errors. hardly reliable

Ghost In The Holocron
14 March 2002, 09:13 PM
Hello, all. Sorry for the delay -- but I am finally back with an update on our murderous 12-yr old falleen.

Some things first, though: Big thanks to all the people who've contributed plot suggestions to this thread. I've been able to make use of a number of them in my campaign. It's turning out rather well -- as you'll see below.

And another thing -- about SW timeline issues: I regularly use the TIMETALES CHRONOLOGY (http://www.theforce.net/timetales) over at TheForce.net for reference. I find that it's reasonably accurate and often provides a welcome amount of (exhaustive) detail that gamemasters can use, including "actual" events and personalities you can tap for your own storylines. The entire chronology is available for download as well in MS Word .DOC format. Hope that helps interested parties.

That said, on with the update:

(Timeline notes: roughly 10 years before Battle of Yavin, during the Jedi Purge, continuing the original situation posted to start this thread.)

The surviving ubese bounty hunter did indeed attempt to escape several times and even tried to get his hidden cache of frag grenades to blow up the party sky high, but no luck there -- thanks to the sharp eyes of the wookiee. On their way to recover the jedi documents, the crew finally releases the poor ubese -- but only after seriously shaking him down with nerve-wracking intimidation.

Unknown to the group, the released ubese is so scared and shaken he begins to spread the word of a 12-yr old falleen "demon-child" in many parts of the galactic underworld. Few can deny that this once promising bounty hunter's frayed nerves and now extremely paranoid mannerisms are the results of an actual event.

They manage to get to the documents and destroy them. (They also unveil the renewed existence of the Mecrosa Order of assasins -- a revelation that greatly disturbs one of the padawans, a daughter of Tapani Sector's House Pelagia. It was the now hidden and much diminished jedi council working in aid of House Pelagia who originally put forth the party's mission).

Most of the party-members head back to Pelagon, led by padawan Sionell of Pelagia, to report their findings. With his duty reasonably well dispensed, our young Duke heads the other way -- homeward to Falleen via personal star yatch. The other jedi padawan, Sufia Cray (this the consular-type jedi, the guardian-type goes back to report), accompanies him, fixing an eye to the young lad's darker tendencies -- hoping that his brush with death and violence has not overly influenced the Duke's impressionable 12-year-old mind. They emerge from hyerspace at the galactic coordinates for the exotic planet of Falleen when suddenly...

A terrible devastation is taking place! The Falleen capital is being firebombed by the Imperial Navy! The planet is under siege and can do little to defend itself from the swift execution of Lord Vader's orders: "Level the city. Do not let it escape!"

(A massive viral outbreak at an Imperial lab near Falleen's capital was the issue that Lord Vader sought to contain -- an event from EU sources, with some timeline tweaking.)

Duke Xinji commands his pilot to dive straight for the carnage and land by his family's estate. Silhouetted by the brurning fires of his home, Xinji's mother, father, and brother die in the young boy's arms.

Just before the Imperial troop's ground sweep of the area, padawan Sufia Cray's quick hands rush Xinji to the star yatch, "Hurry little one! I shall distract them!" -- With that, Xinji is taken off-planet, his face a cold 12-year old mask looking upon the devastation and slaughter of his homeworld's capital -- his family, friends, playmates, treasured childhood memories, all gone now, cooling like blood on the murdered ubese's head, never to return...

Shortly thereafter, Xinji's yatch is hailed by a transport vessel bearing the trade affiliation Xizor Transport, Inc. The freighter tractor beams the now damaged star yacht in and heads for the Core Worlds. It is 12-yr old Xinji who is tasked with bearing the news of Falleen's ravaging to Prince Xizor himself...

(Fade to black, two years pass...)

Epilogue -- about the two years:

The playing group has now decided to call in two years worth of in-game time. When our next session opens this weekend, Xinji is likely to be well entrenched in Black Sun. Certainly not yet as a Vigo, maybe more like one of Prince Xizor's favored wards -- he will grow as Xizor's criminal empire grows.

The crew has been hired on as special operatives by House Pelagia (and the secretive jedi council) in the growing "cold war" against House Mecetti and it's allies in the Tapani sector.

Of great interest to us now is what happens to the other padawan, Sufia Cray, who was with the young Duke on that fateful day of Falleen's bombing. Does she escape the Imperial ground sweep? -- if she does, she will doubtless be compelled to search for the falleen boy. What lengths will she go to to ensure Xinji is not consumed by hate and vengeance? Will she perhaps fall to the Dark Side herself in her search for the young Duke? Perhaps she falls in (pun intended) with the budding crimelord and his Black Sun buddies? -- I guess we'll see.

As for Xinji himself: Well he might become friends with the young Savan, or might eventually get to call Guri "mommy." Will his growing involvement with Black Sun lead him down the path to the Dark Side? To be sure, yes -- certainly. The temptations will no doubt be there, but how much will the young one embrace the path of violence and hatred? -- again, I suppose we'll see as the story campaign develops.

And that is finally where it all stands.

My playing group and I are developing the storyline further this coming weekend and will likely enjoy the results all your suggestions have produced. Hope you guys enjoyed the story so far as well. If anyone one has anything at all to add, please feel free. Again, thanks.

The Xinji player and I are working on the current d20 stats for the young Duke -- he will be Noble 3/Scoundrel 2 when our game re-opens. (Funny thing: he's actually polling everyone he knows how they'd react if they saw their home blasted to oblivion!) And I have yet to come up with a finished pencil sketch of the character. Hopefully, I can post something in the appropriate forum tomorrow for those interested.

darth maim
14 March 2002, 09:39 PM
I would highly suggest secrets between GM and players about the happenings of those 2 years... obviously there are going to be things that the other players wouldn't know about... this makes it much easier not to act on player knowledge. Who says that the Jedi left behind would immediately realize the young falleen's involvement with Black Sun or even that Xixor himself is a criminal... not everyone knows this. Plus the young Falleen is about to become one of the most adament supporters of the anti-Vader/Empire movement ever... let's see he has a taste for blood, then the empire wipes out his home. Xixor takes him in as his own and gives him a place to belong and Vader kills him for a remark about killing Luke. He may not know all of the background on why Xixor is dead but he'd damn sure know it was vader at that point. Also I can see during the scramble for power this young man taking a fairly large share for himself. After all by the time this comes to pass he'll have learned a lot of how things are run and gained the respect of many of Xxior's henchmen. Assuming he follows his cold calculating ways inherant to his species and further ingrained by his new "father figure". He's basically Xixor Junior at this point and the mob works in a way that he would face some opposition in his ascent to leader but not much. Think of how much a split front on the Empire could do (Rebel Alliance and the Black Sun...) might be fun to let the players cause some of the unexplained occurances in the original trilogy as well. Also the Jedi would support him at this point because he would be erradicating the dark side menace and thus be utting a halt to the purges. This should solve the "would the Jedi help with this without going to the darkside" dilemmas as well.

Hope this makes sense and helps a little.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
15 March 2002, 07:01 AM
As to how Guri would take to Xinji.

Does she know how to handle a younger image of Xizor? Would she take well to a possble "mommy" role? Does she make an impression on him in the sense she can reshape Xinji more to her liking? (uh-oh, ulterior motive reasoning at work here??? Or as a counter plan should something happen to Xizor :D )

What does Guri do when Xinji does something to anoy her or something to the effect when her skills are geared towards assasination and Xizor won't allow for such action (ex: Xizor ordering Guri to discipline the kid but not harshly as Guri wants to rather nix the kid instead) example: Guri to Xizor: "Ooooh, I'm gonna kill that little brat this time Xizor, do you even know what he did this time?!?" (quite possible even Guri having a hard time adapting to her new "parental" role, or at the very least not used to such adolescance)

Picture this "what-if" : Xinji gets acustomed to Guri being Xizor's servant / asistant. Xinji gets a fresh idea and tells Guri to get him another beverage followed by a slap on her tush ... (Xinji: "Get me another ___ will ya tuts?" *slaps Guri's tush* ) Guri's reaction would be? :D

I'm not saying that Xinji won't fit into Xizor's image. I'm just saying that Xinji may not always behave. He'll be about 14 as you said it'll be 2yrs later. The kid's gonna be growing up at a rather fast rate.

Yeah, i've become an AI fan so, Guri's reactions to all this would be interesting... I think ya can have quite a bit of fun with a npc or char like Guri.

Ghost, btw, thx for the better timeline! i'll be sure to refer to it from now on...

Ghost In The Holocron
15 March 2002, 11:33 AM
I would highly suggest secrets between GM and players about the happenings of those 2 years... obviously there are going to be things that the other players wouldn't know about...

Thanks, darth maim! -- that's a suggestion I'm definitely going for. Clearly better to go that way right now. And, you're right: while the player's themselves know Prince Xizor is a very powerful underworld figure, their character's might not (at most only 1 or 2 of them may suspect at this point). My "secret consultations" with the Xinji player should help the roleplaying side of things go more smoothly. Thanks also for the tips on how I might handle jedi involvement in the future -- that part always worries me to no end!

As for Terras' Guri questions:


Does she know how to handle a younger image of Xizor? Would she take well to a possble "mommy" role?... just saying that Xinji may not always behave...

The "slap on the tush" thing was really funny, dude! However, as my plans stand now, Guri is still "in development" -- but it will definitely be interesting when she finally makes her entrance (in about 1 or 2 months real time). For now, Guri's would-be-"manufacturers" have provided Xizor with a replica droid/clone of a hunting falcon -- as proof that they're up to speed on these things. Prince Xizor has grown tired of the bird and has gifted it to the young Xinji.

That's about as far as AI goes in the story for now -- although that bird, and it's "special talents" can be quite dangerous. Will keep you posted if any interesting sitcom situations involving Guri arise in the future. ;)

About the Timetales bit: You're very welcome. Have fun digging through the thing! The SW ENCYCLOPEDIA (http://www1.theforce.net/CUSWE/default.asp) on that site has been a big help to me too. You and others might want to check it out as well. -- kwatz! I'm starting to sound like an ad for those!

Reverend Strone
15 March 2002, 05:15 PM
Ghost, I really enjoyed reading how your adventure panned out. Thanks for posting it.

You have some really interesting and cool characters there. I'm sure your players are having a blast.

All the best with things as they develop.

Dark Knight
16 March 2002, 12:25 AM
MY GOD

What i wouldn't give to be in your campaign. The entire concept is really well thought out and it was an interesting read also. I like the idea of the the Falleen noble being taken under Xizor's wing. I myself have a carachter who is a Falleen noble (irony coming) whose family was in the city that was destroyed. He was forced to come away with a decision that would change his life as well. He was force sensitive he became a Jedi but was pasifistic on par with Elegos Akla. But iI have to say i like your work and keep up the updates.

Dark Knight
16 March 2002, 12:27 AM
By the way I have to give props Darth Maim had some good ideas on how to handle things.

darth maim
16 March 2002, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Dark Knight
By the way I have to give props Darth Maim had some good ideas on how to handle things.

Thanks guy... that's what we're all here for.

Ghost In The Holocron
19 March 2002, 09:49 AM
Hello. Back with some updates for anyone intrested. But before anything else: again, maraming salamat ("many thanks," in Manila-ese) to Darth Maim, Terras, RevStrone, Dark Knight and others for your plot ideas and encouragement. The wheels are turning fast and good!

Game session last weekend wasn't so hot since many of us came late, and most weren't quite up to speed on things (like starship combat!) -- including yours truly, I'm ashamed to report. Still, things were rather good since we've at least been able to make plans for Duke Xinji. Here's the latest...


Trailed by an Inquisitor Torquuosa (firmly nestled in an ISD, with a side-dish of TIE fighters, and a large mug of Imperial ground forces to wash it all down), Capt S. Harune of the Pelagon special ops divison (cover/alter-ego of the padawan Sionell of Pelagia) and her operatives Shyrrufur the wookiee and Aspar, a human mercenary, land for repairs on an old mining planet somewhere in the Expanse (Colonies Region)...

The crew has cautiously made their way through an asteroid field to complicate matters for their pursuers. They have noted the mining planet on their sensors and decide to head there. As they land their old and limping Loronar B7b, they meet a well-armed and rather intimidating contingent of "strip-miners" from Kanuto-Kessel, Ltd. -- a small mining concern explained to be "wrapping up" operations on the now spent planet.

They attempt to barter for parts, but since the miners possess altogether much greater "bargaining leverage" the crew reluctantly agrees to have their ship towed to Kanuto-Kessel's dockyards and there attempt repairs -- all for an exorbitantly high price. (The crew are essentially being held up at blasterpoint. If they pay the price, they will be allowed to leave after repairing their vessel.)

While the Sionell and the others do suspect something, they do not yet know that Kanuto-Kessel is running the small obscure planet as a lucrative a transhipment point for spice into the Colonies region. And guess who just happens to be on the planet to keep an eye on things on behalf of K-K's "mother company" -- yes, friends, the now 14-year old Duke Xinji (who now has hired the other 2 players as his own agents). Through the security-cams he recognizes padawan Sionell and her crew and begins to formulate a scheme to indebt them to him. It all begins to fall into place when the ISD and Inquisitor Torquuosa arrive...

However (to cut things short), Xinji's plans were not meant to be. Sionell's crew opted to blast their way out -- and with some help from a decidedly irritating squib stowaway (who knew the location of a hidden arctic canyon on the planet, ie: rolled a 20 on his Knowledge check), they elude the Imperials and flee into hiding (at least for now).

My two groups of players -- Xinji's agents on one hand, and Sionell's crew on the other -- never actually met! (There's that curved ball again!) A few tense moments did arise, but Xinji's sense of timing cautioned him back from revealing himself too soon. And the jedi only senses "a presence she hasn't felt since..." (but otherwise is none the wiser).

And so you see, Xinji is growing up to be a cold-hearted, scheming young man. With help from Prince Xizor, he is well on his way to erasing all the records of his involvement in the Falleen incident. Xinji is now also entrenching himself in the very innards of the Black Sun labyrinth of crime -- he and one of the other players want to set up a Black Sun "cell" disguised as a droid rental and repair company. To top it all off, Xinji is also hatching a plan to connive, indebt, and manipulate the two Jedi padawan players into playing as live bait for the trap he will eventually set for Lord Vader years down the road -- and they're willing!

As for the other padawan, the rather naive Sufia Cray: Well, the Sufia player is currently horribly tied up with work, so she couldn't come. I'll be suggesting that her character either falls into Imperial hands, or she makes a very wrong turn in the back alleys of the criminal underworld (as she searches for Xinji). Either way, it looks good for another side-trip down the dark path. She's likely to resurface with a pronounced Dark Side streak. It's interesting to speculate what happens when she finally meets up with the young crimelord.

I know these are all just plans for now, but who knows what they'll lead to. So, thanks for listening to me ramble, and if anyone has any comments, reactions, or suggestions, kindly voice them out. All will be received with great appreciation!
...

But wait. I've saved the best for last. The Xinji player recently off-handedly mentioned an interest in finding out more about Lord Darth Vader, something his character, bent on vengeance, would logically be doing -- an idea hit me then. Here it is. Tell me what you think:


With Prince Xizor's blessings, Xinji sets in motion a years-long information-gathering effort that will ultimately reveal Lord Vader's connection to a certain backwater planet called Naboo, thence to someone named Padme... thence to another obscure planet named Tattooine... and thence, of course, to the son of Skywalker...

Revenge is best served cold.

(In this case "very very cold" since that development is many many years off -- possibly at the end of the campaign. It's great to dream though.)

Hoped you all like the story so far. Thank you for such great ideas!

PS: Sorry, I haven't uploaded the stats/pic for Xinji yet. Not too much time on my hands these days. But I've posted some stuff for feedback on GYRE, AN AVIAN REPLICA DROID (http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?postid=68975#post68975), over at the d20 forum. The bird is now Xinji's loyal pet-companion-spy-assassin.

Terras Jadeonar & Raven
19 March 2002, 10:35 AM
Hmm, that will be interesting to see what happens to Sufia Cray if she does turn to the dark side... Meeting up with Xinji a bit later ...

hey, here's a "what-if" : By some means or some how Xinji convinces Sufia to be on his side (once she turns darkside), with with or work for him ... What would her former master think or do if they meet sometime later down the road? will it be an instant battle or attempts to reason first?

Thats all that popped into my head at the moment... will come back if i think of anything else :)

Ghost In The Holocron
19 March 2002, 10:57 AM
What would her former master think or do if they meet sometime later down the road? will it be an instant battle or attempts to reason first?

Some background on Sufia Cray: Um... well... her master is Madame Jocasta Nu, the reknowned Jedi librarian. The details are hazy in our game, but Madame Nu did not survive the Clone Wars. Nu originally took Sufia as a her padawan at a very early age -- long before the Wars. Early in her jedi childhood, Sufia showed a marked interest in jedi lore and was somewhat bookish and withdrawn (thus an appropriate choice for Master Nu, also helps explain Sufia's naivete). Master Nu died in the Clone Wars and her personality matrix (and much of her knowledge) was somehow embedded in a jedi holocron. Until recently, she has continued to teach her padawan from that state. That holocron is now with the other padawan's master (Even Piell). And Sufia is essentially left masterless as she goes off on her own deep into the criminal underworld.

And yes, it would be interesting if Xinji somehow convinced a "darkened" Sufia to work for him. Darth Maim's vision of a jedi-backed criminal mastermind will definitely take shape if the player goes that way.

darth maim
19 March 2002, 11:27 AM
I'm not sure about the player's path of vengeance at so early a stage... I can't see how he would know that Vader gave the order to blow the city. Just that the imp's did it. I could see him having some serious beef with the imperials. Xixor does somehow know Vader is behind it but he may not share this info immediately... perhaps after his death. Now, when Vader kills Xixor for suggesting Luke Skywalker should be killed and that he plans to do so (all for Vader and the imperials of course)... This could definately set Xinji off on a quest to take out the Dark Lord and Skywalker as well if he finds out the connection. Remember Xixor knows who Vader is and who his son is. (Have you read Shadows of the Empire? This is where Xixor finds out Luke is the son of Vader.)

Ghost In The Holocron
19 March 2002, 11:24 PM
from darth maim:

I'm not sure about the player's path of vengeance at so early a stage... I can't see how he would know that Vader gave the order to blow the city. Just that the imp's did it. I could see him having some serious beef with the imperials. Xixor does somehow know Vader is behind it but he may not share this info immediately...

Actually, the Xinji character doesn't know about Lord Vader's involvement yet. Just that someone high up in the Imperial heirarchy gave the order. However, the player himself does know about it. So when I mentioned he was hatching a plan it was in reference to out-of-game plans. As for playing it out in-game, I'm anticipating a little trouble separating player knowledge from character knowledge but I think the player is willing to play blind as it were.

It's agreed though that Prince Xizor wouldn't be immediately sharing what he knows. In fact, he might not even know about Vader's involvement as yet. The timeframe is about 8-10 years before the events of A New Hope. Which may also mean that Vader doesn't even know about Luke per se.

By the way, a question: In SotE, how does Xizor find out about Vader's role? or does SotE start off assuming that Xizor does know (leaving it up to the readers to surmise how)? -- I'm thinking of putting Xinji up as the one who eventually ferrets out that particular info (and then some).

It is now obvious that I haven't read SotE. Sad thing. :(

I've been working with that I know from the entries over at the official SW site and the Unofficial Encyclopedia. One thing I didn't realize is that Vader kills Xizor for making a comment about killing Luke -- thanks for that one. Must say though that it seems a bit of a let-down to see The Big X get cut down because he let the cat out of the bag too soon. Hope it was a good fight between him and Vader in SotE, though.

So you see, there's a lot of timeline tweaking going on in my campaign. When (and if) it is finally revealed to Xinji that Vader has a son, I'm thinking the timeframe will be about a few years prior to the Battle of Yavin. Which means Luke will be about 12 to 15 yrs old -- the irony is that Xinji was about that age when Falleen was firebombed.

darth maim
19 March 2002, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by Ghost In The Holocron
By the way, a question: In SotE, how does Xizor find out about Vader's role? or does SotE start off assuming that Xizor does know (leaving it up to the readers to surmise how)? -- I'm thinking of putting Xinji up as the one who eventually ferrets out that particular info (and then some).

He already knows of Vader's involvement in the destruction of the city (in case you were unaware it was to stop a virus from escaping due to a leak at an imperial facility) He finds out that Luke is the son of Vader by listening to a conversation between Vader and Palpie (this is at the beginning of the book). Also Xixor actually tries to kill Luke (I believe... it's been a while). This is why he is killed.


So you see, there's a lot of timeline tweaking going on in my campaign. When (and if) it is finally revealed to Xinji that Vader has a son, I'm thinking the timeframe will be about a few years prior to the Battle of Yavin. Which means Luke will be about 12 to 15 yrs old -- the irony is that Xinji was about that age when Falleen was firebombed.

I'm with you on that... I always end up tweaking timelines... there are always things I want to incorporate together that by official standards are impossible.

Jedi_Shadow
23 July 2005, 11:57 PM
Man, these are the threads that I love to find. I run a search on the Tapani Sector and Pelagia, and while I don't find much in the way of help for my own campaign, I do come across an amazing thread with one of the best story ideas I've seen. It's such a refreshing find after having to read through all these other threads on the boards that degenerate into the typical DSP/Force Tenets/Light-Grey-Dark arguments. It's nice to see that there are still groups out there that thing of role playing more as an extension of storytelling than a rule-riddled form of table-based video games.

*Digresses.*

I love how the players have plans for their characters beyond blowing things up and scrounging the coolest toys from the rubble. My current campaign contains potential for the same level of story development, and I think before long I will be implementing the same kind of situation where two groups of players will be playing separately to further the same story. I might just start a new thread asking advice for next steps in the campaign.

*Finds the need to digress again.*

As an aside, I love seeing some familiar names from fellow SWAG artists. A big shoutout from Evan Black! I LOVE your art!

*Sigh, digresses yet again.*

It's late, and my train of thought is riding the track under the Temple of Doom. Keep us posted, GITH, and continue playing the game old school style!

*Ends this before it get more random.*

Darth_Vader2005
25 July 2005, 01:49 AM
Wow, this thread's gone on for ages.......8o

Jaggard
25 July 2005, 03:28 PM
this is proly too late but...

The kids DNA is a key, he's leaning toward scoundrel at the very least and he has a family history with Jedi alliances.

The Jedi are struggling to survive, their fate rests in the hands of a kid that they may have to take to task for his actions, and they are in shock and confused about what could have been done differantly to save a life.

The Wookie needs a ship, has reservations about a killer kid as an ally, and he is a merc.

The Partner is indifferant to the source of his future success.

Seems to me you've already got a good devide forming and strained alliances may be the thing that makes this work.

It seems to me that the Kid could easily use his DNA as a means to make a fortune and or a name for himself. His biggest problem is that he should still feel behold to the Jedi for his family and the things they do for him through these adventures. In fact he may become a 'good' Crime lord. The Empire is the law now, and this kid is looking to become a scoundrel or crime lord then he can save the Jedi (an illegal act) but the means he uses can be dark and walking the line. He can justify this as "Times have changed, we can't hold onto the ideals of harm none. And if the Jedi won't kill (or what ever) to save their collective backsides, so that they could one day return to defeat the empire, then I'll do it for them." And he will, but their is no harm in getting rich in the process.
Now to add to this he may be a kind of force sensative underground railroad and some of those he helps might just join his group. Force weilders as heads in the 'syndicate' and Jedi tools as payment for passage to safety, that only he can unlock, makes for some powerful outlaws. But he's got to get there first and there is going to be some strain.

The Wook, will more then likely have to make sure he let's the kid know there is a line between an honorable thug/scoundrel, and a savage nut. If the kid crosses it without remorse and doesn't look back, then maybe he won't deal with the kid anymore. He can still ally with the Jedi.

His partner will more then likely try to use the kid. Once he's got what he wants he'll do as he pleases. If he get's his ship he may go with the Wookie and only run favors for the Kid that suit the honorable tastes of his buddy. Or he and the Wookie fall out and the wookie seeks his own path with the Jedi and his partner forges a little peice of crime syndicate for himself under the Kid that will outlive him.

The Jedi in an effort to save the kid from himself may push too hard and come off as too idealistic or even self rightious. They have the overall plan to stick to and would most likely see the kid as no better then the Ubese. They wouldn't have killed him and they won't kill the kid. Heck they may even see that they are fighting for the same side but they may have to distance themselves from him. Once they have what they need from him and maybe even made sure he isn't going to be something of a threat to them (either by taking the data he unlocks, or by going and moving the safe houses and the people to new locations) they part ways.

How you role play the split and what follows is beyond me. But from a story perspective this is how I'd do it.